Should Mount Pleasant Rock All Night? Chime in on the hottest topic west of 16th Street.
Residents of the thriving community of Mount Pleasant are debating whether three restaurants on Mount Pleasant Street may host live music. For years, the establishments—Don Jaime’s, Haydee’s, and Don Juan’s—have been barred from doing so by “voluntary agreements” (VA) that they signed years ago with the Mount Pleasant Neighborhood Alliance (MPNA). Now, opposition groups are cropping up to challenge the status quo and unleash bands and dancing on the strip.
The most recent development in this long battle was Feb. 13 hearing of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board. Below are two contrasting takes on the issue. Who do you agree with?
Dance and Sing All Night!
Mount Pleasant’s neighborhood brawl over live music and dancing took nine hours of the Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC) Board’s time last Wednesday. The pro-mariachi forces allied against the anti’s in a fight that has proved to be more about multiculturalism and mutual respect than music.
I live in Mount Pleasant, within spitting distance (or at least loud music distance) of all of the restaurants seeking to bring live music and (horrors!) dancing into their establishments, and I support their cause. I’ve signed the petitions, I’ve attended their events (including a screening of Footloose - remember those other Puritans who frowned on dancing?), and I attended the hearing.
A new neighborhood group called Hear Mt. Pleasant has created a campaign to support three Latino restaurants on Mount Pleasant Street —Don Jaime’s, Haydee’s, and Don Juan’s-- in their efforts to overturn the “voluntary agreements” that they claim were not so voluntarily signed. Those agreements ban live music and dancing in the establishments. (Jaime Carrillo claims that the first two pages of the agreement he signed were changed after he signed it to eliminate his edits; Haydee says her English wasn’t good enough when she signed to understand what the agreement said.) Laurie Collins of the Mount Pleasant Neighborhood Alliance was the force behind the agreements, and yesterday she continued her crusade against live music and dancing.
All of Mt. Pleasant was recreated inside this sterile, berber-carpeted hearing room last Wednesday. Red T-shirted Hear Mt. Pleasant supporters, Latinas in tight pants, long-haired aging white hippies, sock-footed 20-something activists, clean-cut, tie-wearing professionals, young mothers with babies in slings, middle-aged Latino men talking about their favorite egg dishes (rancheros or divorciados?), and one leopard-print mohawk. And then there’s Collins, who doesn’t even live in Mount Pleasant anymore but still manages to exercise some bizarre tyranny over it, even from across Rock Creek in her new home in Cleveland Park. (How does she do it?)
The lawyers bickered and the witnesses’ voices trembled. Hear Mt. Pleasant attorney Claudia Schlosberg opened by telling the Board, “We are asking you to do one thing this morning and that is to hear Mount Pleasant.” To hear MPNA lawyer Douglas Fierberg tell it, at the time of the drafting of these voluntary agreements, MPNA was the only group working on the issue, challenging “the right of Hispanics to lay in the streets.”
ABC Board commissioner Mitar Gandhi asked almost every Hear Mt. Pleasant witness if they thought the MPNA represented the community, and they all said, resoundingly, no. He told one MPNA witness that they were going to have a hard time convincing him to not allow dancing.
The hearing, scheduled to end at 5:00, went clear until 7:30. In the nine hours of testimony and arguments, the one thing the MPNA and Hear Mount Pleasant could agree on is that music should be allowed back in the neighborhood. But the MPNA insisted that music above the volume of conversation and any dancing whatsoever would instantaneously turn these restaurants into nightclubs (despite the testimony from both restaurant owners—who are also long-time Mount Pleasant residents—that this is not at all what they want; Mr. Carrillo talked about his brightest goal of hiring a jazz ensemble to play during weekend brunches).
Hear Mt. Pleasant has spent the last year educating the neighborhood about the “voluntary agreements,” writing their own agreement based on hundreds of conversations with and feedback from neighbors and business owners, and working with the businesses to address concerns from residents. They have built a broad neighborhood coalition including the Mount Pleasant Advisory Neighborhood Commission, Mount Pleasant Main Street, La Casa Community of Christ, and the Mount Pleasant Business Association. They have gotten 1,600 petition signatures and 200 individual letters supporting the Hear Mt. Pleasant agreement. They have conducted sound studies at each restaurant to analyze how live entertainment would affect noise in the neighborhood and have created individualized sound management plans to make sure neighbors won’t be adversely affected. Hear Mount Pleasant has done its homework and has the support of the community. It’s time for MPNA to step aside and let Hear Mt. Pleasant be heard.
--Tanya Snyder, Mount Pleasant resident
Sing Till 10 p.m. on Weeknights, Midnight on Weekends!
The purpose of the hearing before the ABC Board was to hear testimony regarding two ABC establishments, Don Jaime’s and Haydee’s, on two issues; (1) whether to terminate the voluntary agreements (VA) between these establishments and the Mount Pleasant Neighborhood Alliance (MPNA); and (2) to consider allowing something called “Entertainment Endorsement” applications—i.e., to allow live music—for these establishments. MPNA testified in support of live entertainment occurring Tuesday through Thursday from 6 to 10 p.m. and Fridays and Saturdays from 6 p.m. to midnight with no moving of the tables for dancing and no cover charge. Four other protest groups testified for stricter provisions allowing weekend-only entertainment.
The nine-hour hearing began with witnesses for the licensees who spoke in favor of live entertainment seven days a week until closing hours of between 2 and 3 a.m. Testimony began with a musician claiming that he has never been allowed to play in his neighborhood because culture can only be expressed in alcohol-serving establishments. After eight years of silence, Don Jaime claimed his voluntary agreement was a fraud. Haydee claimed she was forced to sign her voluntary agreement, even though she was under the guidance of her well-known, experienced liquor attorney. Testimony was heard on how a handful of people were going to be the masters of noise control, and how expert collaborators with long-winded solutions were going to fix all the problems of the Mount Pleasant liquor universe. None of this testimony addressed public safety, trash, or outside pedestrian disturbances.
A 1,600-signature blindly-signed petition acknowledging support for a new voluntary agreement was challenged by the ABC Board because the voluntary agreement was never made available for review as the signatures were being collected. Accompanying the petition was a geo-coded map depicting the location of the signers/houses of those who signed in Mount Pleasant, tagged with a statement explaining that these signatories wanted the MPNA voluntary agreements terminated—something that was never revealed on the petition.
The Board heard from many residents who spoke about how for years, MPNA was the only civic group taking a leadership role in the community when everyone else did not—where were these groups over the last decade? We heard from neighbors who expressed real concerns about noise, fights and other issues that pour from the late night bars and how the voluntary agreements have helped improve their quality of life. We heard from the police department, which spoke on how manpower would be strained and public safety would be negatively impacted if our neighborhood had live entertainment--more people, more parking problems, and more public safety issues, trash and noise. We heard from Latino families who are trying to raise their children in our diverse community and who, while supporting live entertainment, oppose restaurants morphing into bars and nightclubs.
But at the end of the day, it isn’t about emotion, passion, or even cultural expression. It is not about what we wear or our livelihood or how many people support one side or the other. Everyone has agreed to have live entertainment—everyone has agreed on the need for a voluntary agreement. The only real issues before the board are how much live entertainment there should be and when it should happen. We do know one thing; it is likely that neither side will be completely happy with the outcome. It is in the hands of the ABC Board. Their decision might change the character of Mount Pleasant forever.
--Laurie Collins, president, Mount Pleasant Neighborhood Alliance
Feb. 15 - 21, 2008 (Vol. 28, #7)
Comments
3:04 pm
Thanks to Tanya Snyder for pointing out that Ms. Collins no longer lives in Mount Pleasant nor Ward One. Ms. Collins seems to feel the need to involve herself in the lives of not only those who live in her former neighborhood of Mount Pleasant, but also other neighborhoods in the Ward. She has lived in Cleveland Park for almost (maybe more) than two years now and Ward One residents really need to put their foot down against her involvement in their issues.
3:56 pm
Kudos to Tanya Snyder for tellin' it like it is! Collins should take her not-so-thinly-disguised racism back across the valley to Cleveland Park and let the issues that affect Mt P be decided by actual Mt P residents for a change.
3:57 pm
Good God with that attitude you might as well get rid of every Board member who serve on boards in Mt. Pleasant who don't live there either yet continue to be involved with issues that effect Mt. Pleasant , huh?
5:36 pm
What I don't understand is, if this is an counterpoint opinion article, why didn't they let Hear Mount Pleasant have a platform to speak? They have the president of the opposition, Laurie Collins, write an entire article and then only have a resident who acknowledges she's only been to a few events represent the other side. She makes nice points, but is this really balanced? What about a representative that actually represents the other perspective?
City Paper, shame on you. You should have done better.
6:24 pm
So let me get this straight: you guys want loud music that disrupts the neighborhood & drunken patrons spilling out of bars & into the streets of MP? Sorry guys but that's really stupid & short-sighted. When you combine those elements, it usually means an uptick in crime, disturbances & an overall decrease in the quality of life for working families. For those who are against Laurie, my guess is once you get tired of people peeing in the streets & smashing car windows after a drunken brawl, you'll eventually abandon MP & wind up hosting house-warming parties in Cleveland Park. I hear Laurie is a pretty good party-host. Just don't ask her to cook anything.
6:37 pm
I've lived in Mt. Pleasant for 20 years, and people moved to Mt. Pleasant for what it is, a quiet multi-cultural residential neighborhood. Hear Mt. Pleasant wants to change my neighborhood into a party zone, and I object to that. Just look at what has happened to Adams Morgan over the past 20 years and you will understand why. The part that is truly outrageous is how Hear Mt. Pleasant has cynically played the racism card when this is really about the quality of life for the people who live here and don't want to see Mt. Pleasant become an all-out party zone. Shame on you Hear Mt. Pleasant!
7:39 pm
I moved to mount pleasant because it was a residential neighborhood with a commercially zoned "main street" just outside my door. other residential neighborhoods with commercially-zoned strips seem to be able to be tolerate live music without turning into an "all-out party zone." there are laws in place to deal with public urination, destruction of property, and excessive noise levels. if I could vote against the MPNA I would.
7:48 pm
Nobody's proposing making Mount Pleasant into an all-night party zone. Right now it's an all-night dead zone, the streets deserted (and consequently dangerous) after midnight. We (the ANC) are proposing that just three restaurants, of modest size, offer live music and entertainment into the night. Compare the more than 30 establishments, with a total capacity of thousands, currently offering live music in Adams Morgan. No way can Mount Pleasant become crazy and chaotic at night, like our neighbor to the south. Let's just add a bit of life to a street that is now deadly quiet after dark.
8:09 pm
Whether you think Mt. Pleasant will turn into a party zone or think it will benefit from actually utilizing the commercial zoning, the fact of the matter is that these voluntary agreements have to go. VA's have coerced local businesses in Mt. Pleasant to abide by the will of the few.
And Hear Mt. Pleasant is from playing the race card. It's the MPNA lawyers who equated bringing back live music to these restaurants as "fighting for the right of Latinos to lie drunk on the street." What's so scary about bringing back entertainment? Public urination? Compromised property values?
8:14 pm
Can I also just correct the misconceptions the title gives? The MPNA is asking for music from 6-10pm weeknights (only 4 hours!) and 6-12am weekends. That would not allow Don Jaime's to have his jazz brunch because it doesn't allow music during the day.
Hear MtP is asking for music until 12pm Sun-Thurs and until 1am or 1:30am (one of those) on Fri and Sat nights. They are working with businesses, residents (including those who disagree with them), gov't agencies and non-profits to help the businesses build a business plan that will ensure resident concerns are addressed.
Hear MtP believes in working with the businesses out of a spirit of cooperation. Even the witnesses for MPNA at the hearing (yes, I was there) ALL said that they had no problems with how either business is currently operated. Don Jaime's and Haydee's are responsible businesses and would host music responsibly. Hear MtP's reputation and their year's worth of hard work on this issue is on the line--they do not take the re-introduction of live music into the neighborhood lightly!
This can work!
8:17 pm
Laurie Collins and the MPNA have caused great harm to my beloved neighborhood of Mt. Pleasant. Not only by coercing businesses on our strip to sign their draconian (in)voluntary agreements years ago, but because they have not been open, welcoming members of the community. I like to walk around the neighborhood on the weekends to do errands, get brunch, and talk to neighbors. Practically everyone I talk to speaks either angrily, sadly, or regretfully about Laurie Collins and the MPNA. Folks are fully aware that the MPNA has denied membership to people who don't agree with their views (lots of "lost checks in the mail" is the frequent MPNA excuse) and feel strongly that it's time for the MPNA and Laurie Collins to step down and allow our business owners to operate their establishments the way they see fit.
I was personally at a Hear Mt Pleasant meeting a few months ago where Laurie Collins told Alberto and Haydee (the owners of Don Juan's and Haydee's), to their faces, that they "disgusted" her. This because they finally had the courage to confront her about comments she had made to them in the past they felt were racist. I was at an ANC meeting where she stood up and yelled and cursed while children were present.
Laurie Collins manages to create controversy, division, and bad blood in our neighborhood. Hear Mt Pleasant is working very hard to usher in a new era of cooperation, respectful communication, and inclusion. Shame on Laurie Collins and the MPNA, and let's hear it for the brave owners of Don Juan, Haydee's, and Don Jaime who are willing to stick their necks out for the freedom to serve their customers and the neighborhood in good faith, and with the respect they deserve.
8:17 pm
If you think the voluntary agreements have to go then you DON'T support Hear Mt. Pleasant because they support having a Voluntary Agreement that will coerced local businesses in Mt. Pleasant to abide by the will of the few of them!
8:22 pm
If someone has lived in MtP for 20 years, the neighborhood had a vibrant music scene when they moved in. But certainly nothing resembling frat row.
The oddest thing about the proposals is the "no cover charge" idea. How, precisely, would the performers be paid? If there is no cover charge, the standard method is to pay a percentage of the establishment's earnings for the evening. So, what's the one thing they offer with the highest profit margin? Yep... they'll likely push more drinks. That's some terrific thinking from those concerned about drunkenness.
I agree with MPNA on a number of things. The neighborhood has been cleaned up to a large degree and there are, in fact, fewer drunks on the sidewalks (which is largely thanks to the MPNA-backed effort to discontinue the sale of single beers, among other things) But it really is time for Ms. Collins to stop thinking she and her small band of former neighbors should set the rules for everyone who lives in the neighborhood.
8:37 pm
Hear Mount Pleasant has done its homework? Hardly ---.(Unless its homework was contributing to this community's divide by masterly playing the race card)
Hear Mount Pleasant has never seriously tried to address the concerns of us neighbors living in close proximity to the commercial strip. It is as if the only concern we neighbors have is the noise coming from the inside of establishments. Parking, trash, and safety issues are not addressed. Would that worry you the most if you were raising a family right across bars (mind you, one of them with the lousy record that Don Juan has)?. Believe me: the noise of late night patrons exiting bars, night brawls, drunk men driving away, all this problems that we face know, would be high in your list of concerns. This, the Hear MTP VA does not even acknowledge, forget address.
This debate is not about the MPNA and even less about Laurie Collins. You seem to think that Hear MtP speaks for the "community" , whatever that means. I will say this: Most of the "community" is not even aware of what this discussion is really about. Had this issue been really presented like what it is: "live entertainment as a business strategy to increase night traffic to a location that already has a high concentration of alcohol serving establishments" as oppose to "footloose" (!), had there really been a debate on issues of neighborhood economic development, maybe you would really have been able to see where the "community" stands.
So please, by all means: If Don Jaime just wants brunch jazz bands, bring them on! And with them, bring VAs that are consistent with that desire. Do not bring VAs that are consistent with the turning of these restaurants into nightclubs--that is, live entertainment, every night, past midnight.
(Finally: I, for the life of me, cannot understand people that make of Ms. Collins' home address an issue. All of her detractors keep pointing at that, knowing fully well that that has to do with the fact that she is going through a separation. And that precisely women keep using this, as if we could not understand what a divorce is and does, is a bit low, dont you think? That Hear MtP supporters keeps using that argument and seem intent on fighting the MPNA, speaks volumes about the kind of organization it is. "Dialogue" and "participation" is just an "stated" objective--Hear MtP is at its best in trying to deny legitimacy to all opinions that do not coincide with theirs.)
8:46 pm
Thank you Tanya for setting the record straight. When I bought my house I received a solicitation in the mail to join the MPNA. My check was returned to me and my application denied. I was perplexed. Later I found out that I was rejected because had signed an early petition to bring back live music to Mount Pleasant Street.
Hear Mt. Pleasant has been very open in their efforts and egalitarian in approach. I wish that more community organizations were like this. Ms. Collins assertion that MNPA has been the lone voice in the community for years is clearly an overstatement. There are plenty of positive groups working for the betterment of the neighborhood but perhaps not her vision of the betterment of the neighborhood.
8:56 pm
That is so lame--returned check--yea right.....I know of no organization who won't take your money! Viva la MPNA. Everyone here is bashing Laurie Collins. Good for you-- don't focus on the issues--all you're doing here is making her more popular (no such thing as bad press right?). She owns a house in Mt. Pleasant and has every right to participate. In fact, why are you giving her so much credit--one person?? Really? She has that much power? You go girl. You go Queen La Collins! Barrrrump!
So as to the real issue here, which side are you on? I'm on the side of compromise and being reasonable. Therefore, I support Laurie Collins--seems very reasonable for a residential community.
I don't support Hear Mt. Pleasant and their restrictions (or lack their of) of their voluntary agreement -- voluntary? yea ok.
It's about control here. Hear Mt. Pleasant wants control and trying to win control using race. Ain't gonna work here.
9:10 pm
The MPNA is not unlike the CIA, they operate in secrecy and with self-appointed authority. And is led mostly by white people of privilege.
The treat the non-white, non-english speaking community in the Mt. Pleasant area with the same condescending and paternalistic attitude that the U.S. government treated the people of Central America... "we're oppressing you for your own good, trust us."
It's good to know, people from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua are once again standing up for their rights.
10:05 pm
The above posting is your tipical Hear MtPer.
As a Latino, I find it sicckening that this awful group keeps bringing race into this. there are MANY latinos supporting the MPNA.
Shame on you Hear MtP!!!I am a Latino who do not like drunkards on my street.
5:01 am
Why can't you people get off Laurie's back? What's so terrible about trying to keep a community safe? Big deal if Laurie lives in CP now - at least she's showing interest and committment to her old neighborhood.
5:02 am
Get off Laurie's back.
6:54 am
There are two issues: quality of life and control.
MPNA has already modified some voluntary agreements to include music. So music is not the issue.
The issue is that Hear Mt. Pleasant wants to turn restaurants into nightclubs that offer drinking and dancing until 2am at which time the inebriated patrons will pour onto the streets and do what indebriated people do. Ever stand outside a nightclub at closing time? It's not what most people want at their front door. And I mean literally at the front door of some of my neighbors and just around the corner from me.
Sure, Mt. Pleasant is smaller and quieter than Adams Morgan, that's exactly why me and many of my neighbors chose to live here. But to think that you can create nightclubs and not negatively impact Mt. Pleasant is rediculous.
And guess what, today we are talking about tranisforming three restaurants into nightclubs. If these three are successful at drawing crowds and making money, how long do you think it will take for other restaurants to do the same?
Sure, the three restaurants are of modest size today, but if they become successful nightclubs what is to keep them from acquiring additional space, knocking down walls, and then suddenly you have clubs with hundreds of inebriated patrons spilling onto the streets at the wee hours of the morning. And who is to say what will happen to the vacant buildings on Mt. Pleasant street that could also become nightclubs.
I saw this happen in Adams Morgan as it morphed from a quiet place with a few places like Millie and Als to an entertainment zone with all the inherent problems that brings. I don't want to see that happen to Mt. Pleasant.
I moved to Mt. Pleasant for the quiet multi-cultural, residential character of the neighborhood. I would suspect that many of my neighbors did too.
Adding some music with guidelines that preserve the character of the neighborhood is fine, and that is what MPNA has proposed.
Creating nightclubs that stay open late with no regard to the people who live nearby is not OK, and that is what Hear Mt. Pleasant proposes.
It's a shame that people who run Hear Mt. Pleasant could not compromise. Instead they have decided to do whatever it takes to create nightclubs in Mt. Pleasant to include demonizing MPNA and it's leadership and cynically playing the racism card.
Mt. Pleasant is a nice quiet place to live. If you want to drink, dance, and party late, go somewhere else where they offer this sort of entertainment.
7:10 am
I cannot believe some people are still race baiting by accusing the MPNA by being an all white organization. I am a member and a Latino, where does that put me in?
The issue about drunks coming out of these "fine" establishments are a concern, being a South American I should know how these "Cantinas" operate. They serve all the alcohol and can careless about what happens to the drunk once they leave their "restaurant", so they urinate where ever they please, drive drunk around the hood, damage property, and of course NO INSURANCE, Thank you Don Juans.
So, Gracias Laurie, y que Dios te vendiga....
9:57 am
It is unfortunate that this debate routinely devolves into a back and forth over Laurie Collins. I learned a long time ago that the hallmark of a civilized discussion is listening to your opponent. I am a member of the Hear Mount Pleasant Steering Committee and I would like to say that I have indeed "HEARD" the MPNA and other neighbors that object to the efforts of our new group.
When we started our petitioning and outreach drive in early 2007, we heard a great deal about noise. Working with sound experts, we have completed sound studies and noise management plans. While I waited to testify last week, a neighbor testyifing for the MPNA told me he appreicated our successful efforts to install a sound limiter at Don Juans. This is an example of the change that can happen when neighbors listen to one another and take positive action to work with businesses to improve the quality of life.
In recent months, I have heard other concerns about the establishment of nightclubs, lack of parking facilities and a general concern that having music in these establishments will create uncontrollable amounts of trash and enormous safety issues from crowds of drunks erupting from these restaurants every night.
My first response is that I promise we will deal with these issues proactively as they develop. We have demonstrated our committment and capability to enact change for the better and that will continue. My second response is these arguments seem specious to me. None of those establishments have fire code ratings for occupancy that would likely cause significant impact in terms of parking or crowds. I have never really understood the trash argument. Despite the best efforts of some of our opponents, all business owners have successful and adequate trash management and I don't understand why one would assume that this would not continue.
What I hear most clearly from my neighbors with whom I disagree is a concern that Mt. Pleasant will become 'another Adams Morgan'. I share your concern in this regard and as I have told you many times, I am committed to making sure that this will not happen. I will do everything I can to make sure that we will not have late night pizza joints, there will not be multi-level dance clubs, and we will not have 4 bars and clubs for every other business.
I read Maya's comments with regret. Despite our best efforts to explain ourselves and operate in a transparent manner, some of our friends and neighbors believe that we don't hear them because we have not wavered from our desire to improve our quality of life by bringing live music back to these small restaurants in our community. I can only say that our regular meetings will continue to be open to all. As we move forward in this process, I guarantee that we will work diligently with residents and business owners to find common ground and resolve problems.
10:44 am
The city's dysfunctional Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC) Board forces the community to act in the extreme manner laid out here. There was a decent ABC law passed in 2004. (Both sides feel they lost out, so you know everyone compromised). If you could trust the ABC Board (and its enforcement arm ABRA) to license restaurants that stay restaurants rather than it allowing restaurants to morph into night clubs, neither side would be so embattled.
12:39 pm
Right on, Hear MtP!
MPNA would have us build a gated community. A suburban edition of a DC neighborhood, not so much frozen in time as never having existed. I say play music late any day or night- but not too loud. Dance all you want - but not in the streets. Get the police to enforce the existing noise, drunk driving, public indecency and littering laws but dont penalize the businesses for the consequences of legally providing what the citizens want. Finally, if you dont want the commercial strip or the neighborhood to change, move to Disneyland. That's what cities do, they evolve to reflect the tastes of the people who live there.
1:53 pm
I couldn’t agree more with Phil in that that it is unfortunate that a debate becomes a debate about the MPNA and Laurie Collins. But, frankly speaking, Hear Mount Pleasant (as some ANC commissioners) is greatly responsible for this, and I think Hear MtP members are well aware of that. I recall attending a Hear MtP meeting, in which the mere suggestion of the possibility of dialogue with Ms. Collins was enough to make all the steering committee “emotional”, to say the least. This, not to mention the nastiness of Hear MtP’s personal attacks on Laurie and on the neighborhood organization she represents. There is nothing civilized about precluding dialogue from the start, and that is what Hear Mount Pleasant has done: preclude dialogue with Laurie Collins and the MPNA who, like it or not, represents many neighbors. “Hearing” just to be able to say that you “heard”, and that you “care”, and that you are “open”-- but without being willing to move an inch, for the sake of compromise and balance, for the sake of building community; is just as unproductive as not hearing at all.
Phil and others you have met with us, neighbors with concerns. We have been to Hear MTP meetings. After reading Phil's posting, I wonder: For what? To have to read: (i) “We will deal with these issues proactively as they develop”, and (ii) “my second response is these arguments (your neighbours concerns, that is) seem specious to me” and “(iii) “some of our friends and neighbors believe that we don't hear them because we have not wavered from our desire to improve our quality of life by bringing live music back to these small restaurants in our community” and that you “guarantee” (big words) that there will be no problems?
To all this, I say: Hear MtP’s position continues being as outright irresponsible now as in the beginning. The pretension that a group of well-meaning individuals will deal with problems when as if they come, in the absence of a mandate is non-sensical. There is no “mechanism” in place, unless good will counts now as a public policy tool. It is plainly irresponsible to take the approach of “let’s deal with problems if and when they come”, and it is plainly irresponsible to “guarantee” that you will make it work. Hear MtP toys here with the lives of families like mine. We just learned that our neighbors, a wonderful family with small children, are talking to realtors and are considering moving away (wouldn't you? music everyday, past midnight? in Don Juan of all places?) . Their home will probably become the next group house in our block. My own family might come next, courtesy of all this “hearing” you have done.
After all, we might just end up agreeing with the very enlightened neighbors who have suggested once and again that we move away.
After all the “hearing”, you Phil, as a representative of Hear Mount Pleasant summarize the concerns we raise as “specious arguments”. By this you mean, “arguments that seem right though they lack real merit?” Great! Is this what we have to look forward to in the people who have entrusted themselves with the role of overseeing our parking, trash, noise and safety problems? Is this what you Phil say after you have heard ---directly from us--- of the kind of problems we face even without the prospect of turning restaurants into bars?
It is unfortunate to say this to you, a neighbor and one among the Hear MtP crowd that seems to me genuinely nice and sincere: Hear MtP’s most important achievement will be having antagonized neighbors. Hear MtP is at its best when taking legitimacy away from other’s peoples arguments, and that is simply because yours just do get to address any issues with any degree of substance (and I have been to your meetings).
2:04 pm
I couldn’t agree more with Phil in that that it is unfortunate that a debate becomes a debate about the MPNA and Laurie Collins. But, frankly speaking, Hear Mount Pleasant (as some ANC commissioners) is greatly responsible for this, and I think Hear MtP members are well aware of that. I recall attending a Hear MtP meeting, in which the mere suggestion of the possibility of dialogue with Ms. Collins was enough to make all the steering committee “emotional”, to say the least. This, not to mention the nastiness of Hear MtP’s personal attacks on Laurie and on the neighborhood organization she represents. There is nothing civilized about precluding dialogue from the start, and that is what Hear Mount Pleasant has done: preclude dialogue with Laurie Collins and the MPNA who, like it or not, represents many neighbors. “Hearing” just to be able to say that you “heard”, and that you “care”, and that you are “open”-- but without being willing to move an inch, for the sake of compromise and balance, for the sake of building community; is just as unproductive as not hearing at all.
Phil and others you have met with us, neighbors with concerns. We have been to Hear MTP meetings. After reading Phil's posting, I wonder: For what? To have to read: (i) “We will deal with these issues proactively as they develop”, and (ii) “my second response is these arguments (your neighbours concerns, that is) seem specious to me” and “(iii) “some of our friends and neighbors believe that we don't hear them because we have not wavered from our desire to improve our quality of life by bringing live music back to these small restaurants in our community” and that you “guarantee” (big words) that there will be no problems?
To all this, I say: Hear MtP’s position continues being as outright irresponsible now as in the beginning. The pretension that a group of well-meaning individuals will deal with problems when as if they come, in the absence of a mandate is non-sensical. There is no “mechanism” in place, unless good will counts now as a public policy tool. It is plainly irresponsible to take the approach of “let’s deal with problems if and when they come”, and it is plainly irresponsible to “guarantee” that you will make it work. Hear MtP toys here with the lives of families like mine. We just learned that our neighbors, a wonderful family with small children, are talking to realtors and are considering moving away (wouldn't you? music everyday, past midnight? in Don Juan of all places?) . Their home will probably become the next group house in our block. My own family might come next, courtesy of all this “hearing” you have done. After all, we might just end up agreeing with the very enlightened neighbors who have suggested once and again that we move away.
After all the “hearing”, you Phil, as a representative of Hear Mount Pleasant summarize the concerns we raise as “specious arguments”. By this you mean, “arguments that seem right though they lack real merit?” Great! Is this what we have to look forward to in the people who have entrusted themselves with the role of overseeing our parking, trash, noise and safety problems? Is this what you Phil say after you have heard ---directly from us--- of the kind of problems we face even without the prospect of turning restaurants into bars?
It is unfortunate to say this to you, a neighbor and one among the Hear MtP crowd that seems to me genuinely nice and sincere: Hear MtP’s most important achievement will be having antagonized neighbors. Hear MtP is at its best when taking legitimacy away from other’s peoples arguments, and that is simply because Hear MtP just does not get to address any issue with any degree of substance.
2:58 pm
OK, Let's get some things straight (especially for those who think they know me and/or the MPNA).
MPNA doesn't deny members. The only 2 that had been denied were denied 5 years ago-- not because of their status, but because they misrepresented themselves as MPNA members when they were not members, before the ABC Board. Since then, one of those two has since joined.
How can anyone say that their membership check was denied because of your beliefs and expect people to believe that?—no one is going to feel sorry for you—they will think MPNA is stupid for not taking your money. There are MPNA members who disagreed with some decisions that were made, but keep in mind, WE STILL TAKE YOUR MONEY--so please feel free to disagree, but please feel free to send money. We even accept your money on-line so there is no way MPNA cannot accept your member and you continue to tell such stupid lies.
As to my residency. I am only temporarily away and I continue to own a home and am invested in the hood. If I wasn’t there, don't you think there would be someone else standing up and saying the same thing on behalf of MPNA? And what of the steering committee of Hear Mt Pleasant who don’t live in Mt. Pleasant—or the Main Street Board members who don’t live in Mount Pleasant? Shall we tell them to stay out of issues in Mt. Pleasant? It’s only fair right? Hear Mt. Pleasant is doing such a fine job, but heck, at least 4 of them don’t live in Mt. Pleasant. Such hypocrisy.
As to Voluntary Agreements with restrictions: Hear Mt. Pleasant has a VA with restrictions. MPNA has a VA with restrictions. There will be restrictions on live entertainment. The ABC Board will determine what they are—not MPNA – not Hear Mt. Pleasant.
And to Phil, how can you even say that you—you, Phil Lepanto—promise to deal with issues proactively as they develop? Committed to making sure we don’t turn into Adams Morgan? Make sure we won’t have any pizza joints? Multi-level dance clubs? No 4 bars and clubs for every other business? Really, you can do all that and have a full time day job? So Phil, when a restaurant advertises a really popular event and 150 people show up to a 50-seat restaurant, can you tell me how you will handle all those people standing outside—or can you tell me where they are going to park? Oh I forgot, you guys have guaranteed that only people who walk and take the bus will be going to places on Mt. Pleasant Street to listen to live entertainment. As the police testified, manpower will be affected and size doesn’t matter. Wow. Reality check.
We heard from neighbors at the hearing last week who have met with Hear Mt. Pleasant on noise issues who revealed they are dissatisfied Hear Mt. P customers. Your ideas apparently aren’t working.
Finally, I attended 2 Hear Mt. Pleasant meetings and was yelled at, treated rudely, and verbally attacked by the Hear Mt. Pleasant Steering Committee. Boy that made me want to come again.
And the best part of all of this?--is waiting for all the whiny email for help from Hear Mt. Pleasant to the Jackie Reyes in the Mayor’s office or Jim Graham’s Ted Loza who then makes “the political calls” against Laurie Collins………
So now that we've gotten all of that out of the way, can we get back to this article now?
3:34 pm
I couldn't agree more with Phil in that that it is unfortunate that a debate becomes a debate about the MPNA and Laurie Collins. But, frankly speaking, Hear Mount Pleasant (as some ANC commissioners) is greatly responsible for this, and I think Hear MtP members are well aware of that. I recall attending a Hear MtP meeting, in which the mere suggestion of the possibility of dialogue with Ms. Collins was enough to make all the steering committee "emotional", to say the least. This, not to mention the nastiness of Hear MtPs personal attacks on Laurie and on the neighborhood organization she represents. There is nothing civilized about precluding dialogue from the start, and that is what Hear Mount Pleasant has done: preclude dialogue with Laurie Collins and the MPNA who, like it or not, represents many neighbors. "Hearing" just to be able to say that you "heard", and that you "care", and that you are "open"-- but without being willing to move an inch, for the sake of compromise and balance, for the sake of building community; is just as unproductive as not hearing at all.
Phil and others you have met with us, neighbors with concerns. We have been to Hear MTP meetings. After reading Phil's posting, I wonder: For what? To have to read: (i) "We will deal with these issues proactively as they develop", and (ii) "my second response is these arguments (your neighbours concerns, that is) seem specious to me" and (iii) "some of our friends and neighbors believe that we don't hear them because we have not wavered from our desire to improve our quality of life by bringing live music back to these small restaurants in our community" and that you "guarantee" (big words!) that there will be no problems?
To all this, I say: Hear MtP's position continues being as outright irresponsible now as in the beginning. The pretension that a group of well-meaning individuals will deal with problems when as if they come, in the absence of a mandate is non-sensical. There is no "mechanism" in place, unless good will counts now as a public policy tool. It is plainly irresponsible to take the approach of "lets deal with problems if and when they come", and it is plainly irresponsible to "guarantee" that you will make it work. Hear MtP toys here with the lives of families like mine. We just learned that our neighbors, a wonderful family with small children, are talking to realtors and are considering moving away (wouldn't you? music everyday, past midnight? in Don Juan of all places?) . Their home will probably become the next group house in our block. My own family might come next, courtesy of all this "hearing" you have done. After all, we might just end up agreeing with the very enlightened neighbors who have suggested once and again that we move away.
After all the "hearing", you Phil, as a representative of Hear Mount Pleasant summarize the concerns we raise as "specious arguments". By this you mean, "arguments that seem right though they lack real merit?" Great! Is this what we have to look forward to in the people who have entrusted themselves with the role of overseeing our parking, trash, noise and safety problems? Is this what you Phil say after you have heard ---directly from us--- of the kind of problems we face even without the prospect of turning restaurants into bars?
It is unfortunate to say this to you, a neighbor and one among the Hear MtP crowd that seems to me genuinely nice and sincere: Hear MtPs most important achievement will be having antagonized neighbors. Hear MtP is at its best when taking legitimacy away from other peoples arguments, and that is simply because Hear MtP just does not get to address any issue with any degree of substance
3:44 pm
way to go Laurie.Kudos, kudos, kudos. Thank you for standing up for quality of life issues.
Is this true? I heard that there is a Nataly Avery woman who does not even live in the hood. She is an activist and she is being "active" for live entertainment in my neighborhood as part of HMtP.
I ask why should she be in a steering committee of anything that happens here? isnt it like me voting in Guatemalas elections if I am Salvadorean?
laurie you are a homeowner here, but the other people do not have a dog in this fight.
THIS IS WRONG!!!!! so nataly and other outsiders: tell us who you are. And then go promote music in your own neighborhoods, not in mine.
4:16 pm
All of you who play the race card should be ashamed of yourselves. You do it to incite the community and to keep Mt. Pleasant divided. It is shortsighted and it is dangerous. Start taking responsibility for your actions and stop it! This has nothing to do about race and undermines valid complaints from those who still suffer genuine racial injury. Why are racial lines being drawn up in this debate? “Hear Mt. Pleasant” sounds like a militant organization and reading your entries are frightening. You have turned normal urban quality of life issues into a personal vendetta against Laurie Collins. Laurie Collins lived in Mt. Pleasant for 20 years. She moved less than 1 mile away because she had no choice. For the life of me, I don’t know why she bothers.
9:05 am
To Phil,
First you "promise we will deal with these issues proactively as they develop" referring to drunks, lack of parking, trash, safety, noise, etc. that creating nightclubs will result in.
Promise? Wow, that makes me feel better. How about you first demonstrate your abilities by cleaning up the problems we already have on Mt. Pleasant street before creating even more problems?
Then you label the concerns of your neighbors as "specious" because of current fire code and occupany ratings. Guess what, all the new nightclubs need to do is knock down a wall, expand to their second floor, or enlist the help of some noble neighborhood organization like Hear Mt. Pleasant to help get the ratings changed, just like what you want to happen with the currnet voluntary agreements.
You then say "I will do everything I can to make sure" that Mt. Pleasant does not become another Adams Morgan.
Let's see.....you want to bring live music to the neighborhood, you want cover charges and dancing, you want these new nightclubs to stay open until 2am-3pm in the morning, and you call neighbor concerns about drunks, noice, trash, etc. specious.
I'm not feeling the love Phil. Seems to me that you and Hear Mt. Pleasant are doing everything you can think of to turn Mt. Pleasant into another Adams Morgan as fast as possible.
Worst of all, Hear Mt. Pleasant, and some members of our own ANC, have rushed to cynically recast this quality of life issue into racist terms in order gain the control needed to begin the "AdamsMorganization" of Mt. Pleasant.
Say what you want, the actions being taken by Hear Mt. Pleasant speak louder than anyones words, and will clearly result in transforming Mt. Pleasant into an extension of the Adams Morgan party zone, with all the inherent problems.
If this is what you want, then move to Adams Morgan, and leave Mt. Pleasant the quiet neigborhood it is.
11:46 am
Last night, I sat down with my husband and my wonderful children. We talked openly and honestly about my concerns on this issue. They are my wondeful babies and I am very concerned as a Latina and as a mother about the alcoholism, threats to public safety and quality of life that I have seen Hear Mount Pleasant to be.
We know that we live in an urban environment. We look at the state of the schools in the District of Columbia, the rising cost of food and energy, and we wonder whether we have really made the right decision to live in this neighborhood. On top of that, I have must now face my neighbors who call me a racist.
I tell you, sometimes we feel that the cards are stacked against us.
But as we talked last night about what we love about living in our neighborhood, we came to realize that if we want to stay here, then we are going to have to accept that change happens. It is our duty to ourselves and to our children to do everything reasonable within our power to make sure that our neighborhood changes for the better. I realize that Hear Mount Pleasant is winning this battle. Judging from all the comments on this and other forums and from the way the hearing went, it seems that the neighborhood has spoken.
So please, my neighbors, let us see if what Hear Mount Pleasant has proposed will work. I will see you at the next regular meeting on March 10 at La Casa.
12:12 pm
Laurie Collins said..
"MPNA testified in support of live entertainment occurring Tuesday through Thursday from 6 to 10 p.m. and Fridays and Saturdays from 6 p.m. to midnight WITH NO MOVING OF THE TABLES FOR DANCING and no cover charge."
Geez... control-freak much? God forbid somebody clears out some space to dance! I'd really like to know whether Ms. Collins and her supportive (former) neighbors have ever seen the movie "Footloose."
There's a place for people who don't like music and dancing. It's called the suburbs.
12:40 pm
Although I am not a member of MPNA (nor is any member of my household), I vehemently oppose the initiative in Mount Pleasant to supplant existing MPNA VAs with new ones that allow permissive late-night entertainment at several local restaurants.
One of the favorite and most overused examples of rhetoric employed by Hear Mount Pleasant is that this is a "quality of life issue." Well I agree, but for reasons that differ greatly from the ones commonly put forth by that group. For my wife and I --- who are trying to raise three small children about 100 feet away from two of the restaurants in question --- having a safe and peaceful environment is of paramount importance to OUR quality of life, and the proposed revisions (music every night of the week until 2 or 3 am) to existing VAs puts that parental objective in serious jeopardy. In the past, our children have been awakened and frightened by late-night noises created by the patrons of these establishments; this, combined with the added parking congestion to our streets, increased trash, and more prevalent lewd, misogynistic, and illicit behavior fueled by late-night alcohol consumption are all concerns that would degrade our quality of life in this neighborhood, and factored prominently in our family's decision to petition the entertainment endorsements discussed at last week's ABRA hearing.
Since the establishments in questions are restaurants --- not bars ... not clubs ... not discos ... but restaurants, pure and simple --- why not allow them to feature live entertainment in a manner that is consistent with that definition?That is, why does the music have to be amplified and last until the early morning hours 7 days per week? Wouldn't music that concludes at 10 or so on weekend nights only be acceptable to those petitioning for live entertainment? That is an arrangement that our family could probably live with, and seems to me, would represent a reasonable compromise to the majority of Mount Pleasant residents.
I also wish to remark that if the handling of past violations is any indications of future behavior by local restaurants owners, concepts such as the proposed "responsible hospitality partnership" (or whatever it is called) offer no reassurance to conflict resolution. On the surface, those three words sound wonderfully comforting, but upon closer consideration, it is apparent that they are completely devoid of practical meaning. Given the present level of rancor and division on this subject, I, for one, have no faith that a committee of pro-business "concerned neighbors," who are contacted post priori about some late-night problem on Mount Pleasant Street, would effectively represent and protect my interests as a resident living in proximity to the commercial strip. The existing MPNA agreements are the only proven safeguards that ensure the peace, order and quiet in our neighborhood, and they should be left in place, with minor modifications to permit limited live music performances.
12:49 pm
Dear Person who posted above as "Maya":
That makes two of us, “Mayas”. I guess all of us are free to choose the screen name we want. But the above posting is just meant to confuse people. It is just meant to… laugh at me, maybe? Make light of my and my family situation?
How do you dare?
And, I can bet that the person who posted it will not even have enough integrity to come forward with a name and an apology.
So: The first two postings under “Maya”, are my postings. My name is Monica Rubio, I am a Latina, a mother of three children under four years old. Our family has been subjected to all sorts of disturbances from some of these establishments: Late night brawls, sexual harassment from drunk men in the street, public urination and defecation. Popular view or not, I have had the courage to speak my mind throughout all this nonsense. And I believe that -- rather than attempting cheap shots-- I am intelligent enough to present a position respectfully. This position has to do with my family, yes. But it also has to do what I consider a principle: Responsibility. Hear Mount Pleasant and the ANC are not responsible actors in this neighborhood. This is not some “battle to win” (well maybe it is, for those of us whose are intellectually challenged), and it is not even about an outcome-- any outcome--. It is about what this community puts first; about how this community reaches a compromise, it is about what we are made of, as a community. My hope is that it is not made of too many of the “Mayas”, like the one above.
Now, Dear Hear Mount Pleasant: Is this person pretending to be me, in your steering committee? Is this the kind of people that attend your meetings? Is this what your organization is made of: People without enough integrity to post and defend a position without pretending to be who they are not?
12:51 pm
Look, it's been abundantly clear for a long time now that MPNA is the group that is "playing the race card" by inciting neighborhood fears about drunkun Latinos stumbling out of bars to piss on their children. This is not solely about race, but to the extent that it is, it is MPNA that has placed it on the agenda.
Music and dancing are not social ills and are not in and of themselves responsible for violence and public urination. MPNA would be better advised to work with the police to ensure that they commit the resources to ensuring that such behavior is not tolerated.
1:09 pm
i think it is hera mount pleasant that should be working with the police. they will be to blame if now anything goes wrong. besides, they are GUARANTEEING us that nothing will go wrong. did you read that?
1:11 pm
If HearMt.Pleasant wins and the three establishments, Don Juans, Haydees & Don Jaimes become Nightclubs, there will be three more places for us Georgetowner’s to go and kick up our heels until the wee hours!! Then we get to go home to our peaceful, orderly and quiet homes to sleep. And don’t fret about parking, we will drink a lot and then take a taxi home.
2:32 pm
For those who are not aware that racism has existed in Mt. Pleasant for decades, and believe that Hear Mt Pleasant is playing the "race card," please read Haydee Vanegas' testimony before the ABC Board. You will learn that it is not Hear Mt Pleasant who is making this stuff up, but that it is very real and has been going on for a very long time.
http://hearmountpleasant.org/testimony/02-13_Haydee_Vanegas.php
4:44 pm
Like Mrs. Collins, I own a house in Mount Pleasant, one that I rent out. And also like Mrs. Collins, I do not live in Mount Pleasant, though I used to for many years. If I, a non-resident of Mount Pleasant, were to demand a say in what goes on in Mount Pleasant, I would be laughed at. How is this any different from Mrs. Collins's situation?
If you don't live in the neighborhood, you shouldn't have a say in what goes on in the neighborhood.
5:04 pm
DC Native...hmmm...we're certainly starting to pick out all the Hear Mt. Pleasant Steering Committee members quite easily here aren't we--first it was the Counterfeit MAYA. Geesh at least Phil Lepanto had the decency to reveal who he was on his post.
The written testimony of Haydee that you desperately want us to see, and, as raunchy as it was--even for me to read such crap, wasn't admitted into evidence because that is what is was deemed--a bunch of crap.
But thanks for posting it because this is yet again another example of how divisive, hypocritical and racist Hear Mt. Pleasant is and to what end you Johnny Come Latelys have to go to fulfill your mission to "destroy the MPNA" (as your neighborhood lawyer would put it).
Hey, it's just about some live entertainment in Mt. Pleasant. The law doesn't look at class, race, or single issue zealot's web sites and a decision will be rendered--hopefully soon so the community of Mount Pleasant can deal with REAL issues of REAL importance to the community--like affordable housing, crime, better schools for our children. Until then, your hostility is just that---hostile.
Laurie
to Latinoguy: yes, Natalie Avery, who I'm sure is here somewhere in disguise, does not live in Mt. Pleasant and a leader of Hear Mt. Pleasant, as are many others. Shall we tell Natalie to go back to Columbia Heights and get a life--stay out of Mount Pleasant--and what of those on the steering commitee who live in Adams Morgan--get out?
Hilarious.....
8:42 pm
This Hear Mount PLeasant group is ridiculous. POsing as someone else online is prretty damn stupid. it is sickening that some idiot takes someones elses identity and even puts her kids into this. it is also damn stupid because this idiot then invites to a meeting and it is obvious that this person is clearly a member of this group. Hear MtP members are a bit wacko, like someone said before. REALLY SICKENING HEAR MOUNT PLEASANT. YOU MAKE ME SICK. IT IS BEST I DO NOT KNOW WHO YOU ARE BECAUSE I DISLIKE HAVING NEIGHBORS LIKE YOU.
Nataly Averys have no business in my neighborhood. GET THE HELL OUT!!!( OR TRY TO SAVE SOME MONEY, AND MAYBE THEN YOU CAN BUY IN HERE)
10:45 pm
I fear that this online forum has gone the way of the MPNA forum where people chose to hide under multiple online ids in an attempt to prove their point, and show that others backed their perspective.
As the person who started Hear Mount Pleasant, I will say that I made many attempts to speak with Laurie Collins and to even seek out other members of the MPNA on their own online forum, and through direct emails before I even chose to conduct an online poll for the support of online music. This poll was for my own gauge of support on this issue in Mount Pleasant. And upon the outcome of these poll results I once again tried to communicate with the MPNA on this issue, but they chose deafening silence as they had for years.
Throughout this period of determining the level of support on this issue for my own, I met various individuals who had been champions of these issues in the past - and in addition I began to receive some very nasty online communications just because I was asking the questions I was asking. It was apparent that not everyone was concerned with how the neighborhood felt on these issues.
This all led to the creation of Hear Mount Pleasant in November 2006, and since this time Hear Mount Pleasant as a group has worked very hard with the residents and businesses of Mount Pleasant on the issue of live music and culture in our neighborhood.
It is always hard to have constructive communications in a forum where "users" are very abstract, and truths are hard to separate from truths.
I do think that working with the businesses in a cooperative manner with be much more constructive then the antagonistic relationships that exist today. And from my point of view, it is good to see progress. In November of 2006 we were at a point where the MPNA was unwilling to discuss the issues, in early 2007 from the Washington Post article we see that Laurie claims "They say, 'You didn't ask us.' Well, we didn't have to ask anyone", to now where we have the MPNA in court saying they support live music 5 days a week - we are having an impact.
As for Mount Pleasant turning into Adam's Morgan - it is possible for organizations and businesses to work together towards a goal. The MPNA may doubt this because of the way they have chosen to interact with business owners in the past. The testimony from the owners of Don Jiames and Haydees serve as great background here if you are interested.
Allowing music 7 days a week does not mean that there will be music 7 days a week, but if a Tuesday night open mike doesn't work and a restaurant wants to move to a Wednesday poetry reading - I believe they should have this flexibility.
8:42 am
To David,
Your comments are well written.
But your comments don't change the bottom line that you are trying to create three nightclubs in our neighborhood, and I stongly object to that.
It's all about the money.
If a business owner can make more money by transforming his restaurant into a nighclub with drinking, live music and dancing until 3am then the business owner will do this. That is why they are in business, to make money.
And if three nightclubs make money then other restaurants will transform into nightclubs so they can make more money too.
And if the nightclub patrons cause problems once they leave the business, guess what, it's no longer the nightclub owner's problem, it's now a problem for the people who live nearby.
I don't know how long you have lived around here, but this is what happened to Adams Morgan, and now you are trying to inflict this on Mt. Pleasant.
And speaking of money, I have also heard that some Hear Mt. Pleasant members will also be making some money out of all this because they are music promoters. How convenient.
Yes, Hear Mt. Pleasant is having an impact. You are having an extremely negative impact on your neighbors and the entire neighborhood by deploying divisive, race-baiting tactics to create a new party zone in the heart of a residential neighborhood.
Apparently your self-righteous fervor to create nightclubs trumps the quality of life concerns of your neigbors, which speaks volumes about you and Hear Mt. Pleasant.
12:02 pm
For the record and in the spirit of transparency, my name is Andrea Blatchford, and I am on the steering committee of Hear Mt Pleasant. I have posted nothing to this blog under any other moniker than this one -- DC Native.
12:13 pm
David,
I guess I just don't get it. You formed Hear Mt. Pleasant to overturn the MPNA VA's -- at least that is what your website states. Yet you don't represent the businesses, you only represent a small portion of the community who wants live entertainment. You are in no position of authority to negotiate nor has any business on Mt. Pleasant Street asked you to represent them or be present in their negotiations.
The normal, civilized approach is for the business, who is a party to a legal agreement, and who wants to lift restrictions from that agreement, to contact the signatories and negotiate new terms. That's what places like Corados, Marx Cafe, Tonic and Radius did. The others weren't interested in live entertainment which MPNA proactively approached as well.
You claim all this hard work with the businesses in a cooperative manner, yet I didn't see Hear Mt. Pleasant at any of these negotiations because the businesses didn't want you there. Yet you feel this entitlement.
Hear Mt. Pleasant hasn't had any impact or influence on the MPNA's decision to support live entertainment 5 days a week. Please do not even think to take any credit for that. That is our position after years of outreach speaking to our membership and others who live in the hood.
The only thing I can give you credit for is dividing this neighborhood and using tactics of discrimination and racism. And from your point of view you see progress.....very, very sad.
Oh yes, we can also give you credit for increasing the MPNA membership which grow over 45% last year. Thank you for that.
LC
12:25 pm
This is ridiculous.. If Ms. Collins would care to wander across the valley and actually take a stroll down Mt Pleasant St, she'd see that, even under the current VA regime, the neighborhood has no lack of drunks, trash and other undesirable elements. How about we take a look at the real impact of those VAs, which have served primarily to drive out the kinds of businesses that the snooty Ms. Collins and her ilk don't want around.
1:29 pm
In case this is confusing for any readers, Don Juan's, Haydees, and Don Jiames ae in fact requesting music and are asking for the ABC courts to terminate their Voluntary Agreements with the MPNA.
Hear Mount Pleasant has been out in Mount Pleasant at the farmer's market, and various events here in Mount Pleasant, and has hosted many events ourselves in an effort to listen to what the people here in Mount Pleasant want.
Also, contrary to what has been stated, we are not trying to force any businesses to have live music. We also don't think it should be against the law if you choose to sing Happy Birthday to someone who's out for dinner. And yes, we did hear testimony on a violation to an MPNA VA when a patron chose to pull out his guitar and play it.
You can read Haydee's testimony on the Hear Mount Pleasant website about her initial signing of the VA. In court, the owner of Don Jiames testified that the Voluntary Agreement that he signed which had many edits and strike-throughs was not the one that was filed in court. Instead the last page with his signature was attached to a different VA.
You can also see a map of all of our petition signers and decide for yourselves how much we have engaged the community in this issue. We have worked very hard to make the information that we have public, and I hope that it helps the reader to make up their own minds on this issue.
As always, we welcome everyone at our meetings. We do have a code of conduct that has been written up to help make sure that our meetings are productive and respectful of everyone.
Thanks
David
7:24 am
Now you are worried about people being confused?
Confusion and deciept have been your two of your primary tools.
I know of several people who signed your petitions and later walked away in disgust once they understood what you really wanted or when Hear Mt. Pleasant began their racist tactics.
Interesting to note that you still list their addresses as supporters on your map. Makes me wonder just how many supporters Hear Mt. Pleasant really has that actually live in Mt. Pleasant. Of course from your perspectiive that truth doesn't matter, it's all about perceptions.
And here's a piece of truth you left out....MPNA has already proposed a change to the existing voluntary agreements that would enable Don Juan's, Haydee's, and Don Jiames to offer live music. In fact, several other restaurants have already signed up for this modification and can offer live music.
The really ugly truth that you don't talk about is that you don't really want live music.
What you really want is to create nightclubs that offer drinking, live music, and dancing until 3am in Mt. Pleasant.
All your talk-talk about community outreach and how poorly some busines owners feel they have been treated is purely camoflage to obscure your real goal and to confuse people into supporting you.
Try being honest for just a moment.
Every live music venue I've seen or enjoyed have the following in common:
Finding parking
Standing in line smoking and talking until I can pay my cover and get in
Going back outside to smoke during the show
After the show, and a few beers, milling about outside with the other
happy campers smoking and talking about how great the show was and
where to go from there
Yelling good night as I get into my car and drive away.
Does any of this sound familier?
Then tell me this:
What are residents supposed to do for parking when your nightclubs start
attracting larger crowds? First come, first served? Sorry neighbors.
What are your neighbors supposed to do when boisterous parties exit the
nightclubs at 3am with their loud talking, car doors slamming, and engines gunning as they move on to their next adventure?
Call the police? Right, that will solve things right away. And even better, when the police are responding to calls to deal with boisterous partiers they are not patrolling the neighborhood. Wonder how long it will take for the bad guys to figure that out?
And don't feed me that garbage about the small capacity of these three businesses. All three have the capacity to expand, not to mention the larger, now vacant buildings on Mt. Pleasant street where some enterprising businessman could create larger venues.
On a good night you are talking about hundreds of party goers pouring onto the streets of Mt. Pleasant in the wee hours. And party goers do not go quietly into the night.
Let's make it simple.
Hear Mt. Pleasant wants nightclubs with live music, drinking, and dancing until 3am.
MPNA wants restaurants that offer live music until a more reasonable hour.
That's the whole argument in a nutshell.
Everything else is just noise that you created to hide the real issues in order to get your way without regard for quality of life of your neighbors or this neighborhood.
11:22 am
Dear David,
Unfortunately you fail to heed Phil's words: This debate is not about the MPNA or Laurie Collins. For those us, the many families that will be affected but what Hear Mount Pleasant proposes, this history of grudges between you and the MPNA or you and Laurie, is divisive and --frankly speaking-- nothing more than a plain distraction from the real issue: the consequences of any proposed change on our quality of life. With the exception of "noise", nothing in the VA that you propose addresses the many ways in which quality of life will be affected, particularly our safety and peace once patrons leave the establishments.
You keep saying that somehow the number of signatures you have is indicative of the neighborhood having spoken. To that, I can only smile. Like Dana, I can attest to the fact that many people signed your petition without knowing what they were signing. In fact, my own husband signed your petition! He met Claudia Schlosberg at Pfeiffer's, heard some stuff about "VAs that "banned" music" and signed. He was never informed that his signature was somehow going to be interpreted as anything more than "It would be nice to have some live music around". He never thought his signature would be interpreted as "music past midnight, 6 days per week and in all places, in Don Juan (!)".
The only way he and other people could have known what was at stake was The Neighborhood Forum. He, like the majority of our "community", wasn't tuned in. I was. So, once I explained to him what this was all about, he was furious. He immediately emailed Natalie Avery to ask that his name be removed from your petition. You know Dev, it is important to give full information. For your petition to be remotely indicative of what the "community" wants, the "community" should have been allowed in this debate.
This is why I find regrettable that you choose not to engage in a debate. You have one website, that --may I say?-- is one-sided and useless if one wants unbiased information (and I could elaborate on this). Oh, you will say: We have meetings! Your meetings can best be characterized as steering committee meetings (nothing wrong with that), because even though they are open, the "community" does not attend. I have been to two meetings of your organization. Ten people at best, five at worst. They are eally unpleasant to attend because people are so "emotional". Is that Participatory? Transparent? Far from it.
So, let's talk about Transparency. You all know who I am: A Latina, a mother, an economist, a property owner in MtP. I do not know who the people about to bring changes in my neighborhood are. From what I am reading here, this situation is worse than I thought:
Questions:
1. Who in your steering committee stands to benefit from music? Are there people with connections to music promoters, like Dana said? This is news to me (see, this is why public debate is iimportant and is the only way to get transparency--otherwise, it is all one-sided). Is there any person in your steering committee with links to the music industry? I would say (but we could also ask "The Ethicist") that at the very minimum they should disclose this fact publicly and make it known to everybody, lest it is lost on people that --besides a love of music, and a belief that this is the best for "the community"-- they also might stand to gain financially.
2. Who in your steering committee does not live in the neighborhood? Did I mis-read? Through this public exchange I learn now that Nataly Avery does not live in Mount Pleasant. I, who have talked to Natalie more than once and know the degree of her involvement, still cannot believe this to be true. If it were, it would be plainly unethical: I know that Natalie is raising a young family too. But, if their home is somewhere else, then she is not a member of the MtP community. Period. All you need to tell me now, to boot , and to get me thinking that this is completely twisted, is that Natalie is in the music business too ...
(And please, please....: do ask me why this should be different from Laurie Collins. I have the answer)
You seem to think that this debate is going the "MPNA way"? I will tell you why you get that impression: It is because Hear MtP's "contribution" to the public debate can be summarized as : "Lets work collaboratively with restaurants". An achievement and, by all means, something that you should keep doing. Unfortunately though, you forgot to work collaboratively with your neighbors. Unless you are all willfully blind (or surround yourselves only with birds of the same feathers), it must dawn on you the realization that you have managed to antagonize perfectly nice and normal people, and not just the MPNA snooty, racist and harrasser monsters (if these even exist). You (and the ANC) have created division to the point that you have got me sometimes thinking that MtP is one ugly place to live-- Live Music or Not--. That, exactly, is what I consider your main achievement, next to the not small fact that you (and the ANC) are irresponsibly trying to bring about a big change--big, given the stipulations of your VAs-- without any safeguards in place, discounting your good will and your "personal guarantees" , that is.
Finally. Do not forget that this is not all about the MPNA. I am not an MPNA member. Most importantly, there were other four protestant groups. We want even more limited hours than the MPNA does: Only Fridays and Saturdays from 6 to 10pm. Why? Because we are a minority that stands to lose the most. By choosing to turn our restaurants into clubs, Hear Mount Pleasant, or rather, you and the rest of your steering committee, are telling us that the right to the entertainment of many, six days of the week, past midnight, trumps the right to peace and safety of families.
My family went once to one of your meetings. We said then that we would be for live music, but in limited hours. We told you that because we did not want to have to protest. What did I hear? Complete intransigence: " No. The bands need to play twice in one night". Now, knowing that there are music promoters behind your organization, it all starts to make perfect sense. So please, this is not about community (which, as we all know, you are not building). After reading this nonsense about music promoters in the Hear MtP steering Committee, forgive me for thinking: This could very well be about business!
Way to go, David. Tell me again: Why is it that you are proud of your "achievements"?
3:28 pm
Question for Laurie Collins: How did you become President of the Mt. Pleasant Neighborhood Association?
5:09 pm
Contrary to a statement in Ms. Collins article, not everyone agrees voluntary agreements are appropriate. This form of extortion is wrong, even if DC law created it. Many people who live in Mount Pleasant, including myself, are against the voluntary agreements that are so clearly hamstringing appropriate commerce on the commercial strip of our neighborhood. It discourages the opening of gathering places - restaurants, coffeehouses, bookstores - while encourages the continued existence of retail storefronts that serve few residents. Dupont Circle has the same problem and even that relatively vibrant area suffers greatly as an urban place to live well. All it takes is one day in Manhattan, or Brooklyn for that matter, to see how perverse this situation is for what should be very livable neighborhoods in DC.
From my perspective, this debate isn't about live music. Live music is but a conduit for a much bigger issue: DC law has allowed one non-elected group to dictate its own selfish interests over a much larger adjacent population. What makes this situation even more absurd is the leadership of the MPNA primarily represents the motives of a few residents (and non-residents, we now know) who apparently blindly bought property adjacent to a commercial strip - which has both pros and cons - and insist on destroying it. We would all be better off if people chose where they live more carefully rather than choose poorly and spend years and decades trying to alter reality. Has no one ever stopped to think, wow, I've been fighting adjacent groceries and eateries for OVER A DECADE and not much has changed except increased animosity in what is supposed to be a wonderful place to live? Meanwhile an entire neighborhood suffers from a lack of walking-distance, city-style urban conveniences that have only improved marginally in the decade I've been in the neighborhood.
5:33 pm
Monica: Nobody on the Hear Mt Pleasant Steering Committee is a music promoter. I don't know where that information came from, but it is false.
--Andrea Blatchford
Member of Hear MtP Steering Committee
6:22 pm
Dear against voluntary agreements:
Just so we are clear. Since Hear Mt. Pleasant is extoring their own Voluntary Agreement which contain restrictive provisions---you must agree that Hear Mt. Pleasant is hamstringing appropriate commerce on the commercial strip; as well as, by your standard of thinking, Hear Mt. Pleasant is discouraging the opening of gathering places--restaurants, coffeehouses, bookstores...
Like it or not, noise, appearance, cleanliness and order and the behavior of patrons after they leave a bar are not racial or cultural issues. They are simply the result of the proximity between the business and the residents. The main thrust of our negotiations is for the business to be run cleanly, quietly, and with respect for our community.
Have you ever stopped to think, wow, the businesses should have chosen more carefully when they decided to open up nightclubs in a 90% residential neighborhood rather than spend years and decades watching all the money that is in Mt. Pleasant be spent elsewhere?
The neighborhood suffers from a lack of business sense and resources from organizations like the Business Association, the Latino Economic Development Corporation and Main Street, who are supposed to be promoting the cultural uniqueness and enhance the economic health of our street.
But more importantly, the neighborhood suffers from people like you who only have the time to judge and criticize others, provide only lip service and nothing more.
6:56 pm
Dear "concerned citizen":
I understand that the three Restaurant lawyers and Hear MtP tried to deny standing to the MPNA in the ABRA Hearings (on the basis of lack of transparency and assorted similar arguments). The Board ABRA Board rule against that claim: The MPNA was granted standing. Oops! Someone must have forgotten to give that update in the amazingly balanced website that HMtP 's is.
Dear "against voulntary agreements": I am not an MPNA member. But, please enlighten me: For me, going from one group (the MPNA) to yet another group, Hear MtP ( this one even more minuscule; with no trajectory in the neighborhood but the sad past months for us to see; made --as I am learning-- of some non-residents ?!) deciding what goes on a VA based on their own selfish interests...You know, I cannot see any difference: It is still VAs we are talking about.
Please, dont treat us those who live close to the commercial strip as delusional fools. It is such a poor argument to introduce to this discussion. We love living close to a commercial strip: I cross the street and my kids can run in Lamont Plaza surrounded by other neighborhood kids. We ran out of milk and I am steps away from the Argyle. Mostly, we sit in our front steps and inevocably get to chat and talk to the many neighbors we know and like. I have lived in Spanish Harlem, on top of a bodega on Broadway Ave. I have lived in a couple of Latin American crowded slums. I am a city animal --I have never been anywhere else--I am scared of driving in highways and find suburbs completely disorienting. The point is this: Nowhere have I seen rampant uncivil behavior like I see in here MtP -- particularly from business patrons of the businesses that Hear MtP supports. Fact: Law enforcement does not work here like it should. And THAT context matters, or rather, should matter to all those that irresponsibly want to bring change about.
Trying to change reality? If by that you mean asking for order, peace and mostly decency --you bet! You know, even we Latinos deserve these and cherish these. We do not live in a lawless jungle. I think a succesful commercial strip in a residential neighborhood is not necessarily or mainly an entertainment district. I think that economic development (and not this nonsense of live music as the only business strategy people can come up with to revitalize this strip) is the dialogue that should be happening. Unfortunately, I believe Mount Pleasant is in dire need of leaders in this respect.
Finally: Most policy issues are not majority vs. minority issues. You want change? Responsible change requires safeguards that protect the minority that stands to lose more. (That unless you are suggesting that we should vacate our homes, or maybe leave them for those who do not value order, peace and safety. Mmm...who could this be?) The Hear MtP VA has none of the safeguards that I would like to see. That is the only reason why I bother writing.
Dear "Andrea": I am glad to know that there is no one in your steering committe who is profiting in any way from this. No community activist should --in reality or perception-- benefit financially from the changes he/she are trying to make happen for the "good of the community".
Maybe then you can also answer my second question: Who in your steering committee is not a Mount Pleasant resident? If there is anyone, it is unacceptable.
8:25 pm
Aw, co'mon: When will the three restaurant owners come to realize that they are being deceived, used and scammed by their lawyers and Hear Mt. Pleasant? The real intent is not music in a few tacky venues, but voiding all of the Voluntary Agreements throughout the city. The owners are being lead around shamelessly. Mt. Pleasant is the test spot.
Also, stop your criticism of Laurie Collins. She is the fourth President of Mt. Pleasant Neighborhood Alliance. Most of the Voluntary Agreements were negotiated and in place before she became President. None was signed under pressure. The Alliance, particularly under her leadership, has vastly improved our neighborhood. Those of you who are "short term" and renters - who have no investment - do not know of her hard work and the results MPNA has achieved. You have no historical perspective.
Hear Mt. Pleasant has created much hostility in our neighborhood. This did not exist until recently and the blame goes to you. Also, the ANC has been working against long-standing neighborhood organizations. They should be supporting and cooperating, not trying to tear down.
Businesses that create a pleasant and respectful environment will succeed. Why not try that approach? Then the entire neighborhood will support you.
10:19 pm
Actually, I was wrong on one point. Hear Mt P had a Steering Committee meeting tonight, and it turns out one of our members owns a small record label called Right on Rhythm that puts out mostly local blues musicians.
Natalie Avery lives in Columbia Heights -- but only 1/2 block away from Mt Pleasant and three blocks from the main strip. She and her family regularly patronize the businesses on Mt Pleasant Street.
Nobody lives in Adams Morgan, contrary to some allegations that have circulated.
I lived in Mt Pleasant until about two weeks ago when I moved to LeDroit Park, as I needed to move and could no longer afford to live in MtP. I still love Mt Pleasant, consider it my "home," patronize its restaurants and stores, and plan to continue to do so.
All of us care about the neighborhood and are invested in helping the businesses and the community thrive.
12:19 pm
Dear Andrea,
What I am going to say is not meant to be personal in the least, and I will apologize to anyone who is hurt by my words if they somehow, even if I try hard, seem to conveying personal animosity. I can assure you there is none of that in the least.
I will summarize what you are saying, Andrea: Out of the nine people in the Hear Mount Pleasant Steering Committee there are two who do not live in the neighborhood. And there are two members (a music producer and his wife)that -- in reality or in appearance-- stand to gain financially if our restaurants turn into bars.
Let me talk first about those two people who do not leave in the neighborhood. You say Natalie Avery lives "half a block from Mount Pleasant". She could live a couple of inches away, and that would not change the fact that she is not a Mount Pleasant Resident. Whether Natalie patronizes businesses in MtP or elsewhere, is completely irrelevant in this argument. I patronize Columbia Heights (and Dupont, and Adams Morgan...) restaurants and businesses intensively. Does that somehow entitles me to have a say in their community?
No. It does not. It would be completely unethical on my part to try to go and be an agent of change (and that a change that is --to put it mildly-- not without questions!) in a community that is not mine.
I like Natalie. And if Natalie likes Hear Mount Pleasant, she should abstain herself from whatever activities she is engaged in bringing about, change in this neighborhood. Else, she is opening Hear Mount Pleasant to serious questioning--. That she is not only an active member, but a member of your steering committee is unacceptable and speaks volumes about the inexperience, if not values!, of your "neighborhood" organization.
About you, Andrea (and please do not take this personally): What I said above about Natalie applies to you too. It did not apply before, when you lived here. It does apply now: The moment you stopped being a Mount Pleasant resident, by definition, you are not a neighbor anymore, and you do not belong in a MtP neighborhood organization --let alone its Steering Committee, let alone on this divisive issue.
The point is this: No matter how compelling your personal stories or motivations seem to you, there is no room in a neighborhood organization (underline neighborhood) for those that are not neighbors. Period. You might "feel" you are "invested" here. You might patronize and love businesses here. You might have many friends here. All good...but, don't you see that there is something seriously wrong with people from outside the neighborhood having a voice in this debate? Mind you, not only a voice: you guys are in the Steering Committee--no less!-- of Hear Mount Pleasant.
This is different from the two other members, husband and wife, who --in reality or appearance-- stand to gain financially from allowing live entertainment in this neighborhood. They are community members. They are entitled to participate in whatever debate there is that impacts the place where they live. Having said that, integrity would demand --- at the very minimum--- that these members disclose this fact (the fact that part of their household income comes from the music industry) in every single public forum and occasion where this person speaks and acts for Hear Mount Pleasant; and in every single ocassion that these members speak in relation to the operation of these restaurants. Otherwise, it will be lost from sight the fact that they (husband and wife) -- besides loving music, and besides thinking it is "best for the community” – stand to gain financially from any proposed change.
I personally think (but this of course is a conscience issue) that bare minimums are never enough. I will repeat: No community activist should --whether in reality or in perception—benefit financially from the changes he/she are trying to make happen “for the good of the community”. It shows ---again--- incredibly poor judgement, to have these individuals as members of your Steering Committee. On top of that, from my experience with Hear Mount Pleasant, these two members ...Mmmm... how to say this?....: They seem to have more of a say in what goes, than all the rest of you together.
Summarizing: You had the signatures of 1,600 people. They only signed for a bit of live music. Then, your Steering Committee decides, along the way, what gets done and how it gets done. This Steering Committee of nine members -- nine out of which two people are not neighbors, and two other are in the music producing industry--- is a bit compromised; to say the least.
A random neighbor like myself should at least be entitled to this:
1--- The knowledge that, whatever change happens (and whatever mess was created to make it happen), it is driven by neighbors. Those who are not neighbors should not have a voice in this.
2---If not the ideal (of integrity, I mean) abstention, a complete disclosure, in every single public forum, that two of your steering committee members --one of them, pretty much your spokesperson-- has ties to the music producing industry.
Talk about transparency!
2:24 pm
Monica,
You said:
"The moment you stopped being a Mount Pleasant resident, by definition, you are not a neighbor anymore, and you do not belong in a MtP neighborhood organization --let alone its Steering Committee, let alone on this divisive issue."
I presume, then, that you would also oppose the involvement in MtP issues of Laurie Collins, who lives not just down the street, but clear across Rock Creek Park. I somehow doubt that she walks over to the Bestway to get her groceries.
2:41 pm
Music Fan: I'm not going to speak for Monica, but I own a home in Mt. Pleasant and I'm only temporarily away, therefore, that is my domicile.
Second, I was unanimously voted to remain as President of the MPNA until further notice.
Third, I am in Mt. Pleasant quite often, in fact, will be there tonight for dinner in Marx Cafe if you care to stop by.
As to Bestway, even if I was still there today, you would never find me shopping there EVER.
2:54 pm
Jesus. This is too funny. The other members of the Hear Mount Pleasant Steering commitee (DC Native) DID NOT KNOW that there were music producers in their midst ????????
Hear Mtp knowingly DID NOT STOP OUTSIDERS FROM PARTICIPATING?????
How is this saying... the pot (Hear MtP) calling the kettle (MPNA) black...?
Poor "Concerned citizen"!! He must be "very concerned" now.
3:15 pm
Laurie said:
"As to Bestway, even if I was still there today, you would never find me shopping there EVER."
Well there's a shocker. Are there any Latino-owned businesses in MtP that you aren't either bullying or boycotting?
3:32 pm
Latinoguy: Yeah, and Andrea (aka DC Native) is a musician who plays in a band and has even performed at the Black Cat and Galaxy Hut...ha!
Music fan: there you go again trying to make it racial. You really need to work on that--and also, if that's all you got, make sure if you're MUST use the race card, do your homework, Bestway owners are Asian.
4:07 pm
Laurie: Oh, I see. Perhaps I should have said "businesses patronized by Latinos." Thanks for the clarification. And I hardly think that calling someone out who has exhibited a clear pattern of discrimination against businesses owned and patronized by Latinos qualifies as "playing the race card."
But don't take my word for it. Let's look at what Haydee said in her appearance at the Feb 13 hearing:
"I remember once at an ANC meeting in 1992 or 1993 someone who I believe was Laurie Collins stood up and said about me, “This lady attracts too many Latinos with her short skirts and low-cut shirts.” I was deeply hurt and embarrassed by all these accusations."
"Laurie said she did not want the mariachis, she said they attracted “drunk Latinos.” She said the mariachis were “cheap,” and “cheap mariachis attract cheap Latinos.” I was emotionally crushed by this and I have never been able to forget those words. Laurie and her friends always said they represented the community. They made me feel that everyone hated me."
It appears to me that you CHOSE to make this about race. If the shoe fits..
4:29 pm
Dear "Music fan":
I have an answer to your question and I promise I will get to it. I stand by every single word I write, and I believe there is indeed difference between Laurie Collins and the two Hear Mount Pleasant steering Committee members that do not live in our neighborhood.
But for now, forgive me if I am a bit tired of the use of "Laurie Collins" and "MPNA" as smoke... Your above statements show that there is little rationality and a lot of personal animosity against Ms. Collins. I want no part of that.
So... Maybe we can re-start like this:
If you are concerned about whether Laurie Collins is entitled or not to have a voice; I am sure you are even more concerned --if not even a bit scandalized-- by these two facts:
1. Two of the Hear Mount Pleasant steering commitee members are outsiders to this neighborhood.
2. Two of the Hear Mount PLeasant steering committee members are --in reality or appearance-- likely to gain financially from the change (in live entertainment) that they advocate now "for the good of the community".
Once you let me know that you are equally concerned by these worrisome discoveries, as a matter of principle ---you see, I have no doubts that you are a person that stands by principles--- only then, will I be happy to put you at ease, on at least one account, by answering why is it that Laurie Collins has a voice.
(Otherwise, forgive me for thinking this: Laurie-Collins-bashing, a favorite sport from Hear Mount Pleasant, ANC and assorted friends, serves again as a distraction; as a really poor excuse to avoid any kind of substantial dialogue).
4:52 pm
Monica:
Oh come on.. I hardly think that the owners of a small blues records label will benefit from the mariachi bands and other latino music that i would expect to find at haydee's, don juan's or don jaime's. that's just such a bogus argument.
The people with the financial stake are the Collins'es and the other homeowners in MtP who want to push the Latinos out and their housing prices up. I think that's obvious enough. MPNA won't be happy until MtP Street is lined with Starbucks and gourmet grocery stores.
Oh, and I'm not sure why you think I need to agree to your preconditions before you tell me "why is it that Laurie Collins has a voice." Am I the only one that finds this a little bit ironic? I'll keep bashing away until she takes her dictatorial style back across the valley where it belongs.
4:55 pm
Dear Music fan:
What is your name?
Don't say it--I actually do not want to know it. But just think: Maybe if you had to be identified you would be embarrassed but what you are writing.
You are probably not even realizing how much you are hurting your own Hear Mount Pleasant--- a neighborhood organization that presumably aspires to be seen as somewhat palatable-- with all your above comments.
Unfortunately, one cannot dialogue with people like you.
5:02 pm
I need a place where my band can practice in Mt. P.
5:16 pm
Monica:
My name's got nothing to do with it. I'm just bored at work today and have gotten sucked back into this thread of yours. And I'm not a Heat MtP member, although I'm familiar with the organization. Laurie Collins has put herself out there as the head of MPNA, and several HearMtP reps have identified themselves and made their own statements. I'm just an interested observer.
So if you choose not to address the issues that I've raised because I will not agree to your ground rules, then that's fine, but you can't simply dismiss them as unpalatable.
5:30 pm
DC Native/Andrea: Almost everything you’ve said is inaccurate, incorrect or wrong. You’re a fraud and dishonest. Were you even born in Washington, DC as native would imply? Laurie Collins was! You had to move to LeDroit Park because you couldn’t afford to live in Mt. Pleasant yet you criticize Laurie--who raised a family in her Mt. Pleasant home--for speaking out on behalf of her community and MPNA? She’s MPNAs elected president! They want her to speak for them. She is a Mt. Pleasant resident with a temporary problem. She is not a landlord like Mt. P Homeowner nor was/is she a transient renter. And to Music Fan: There you go again. Another personal pot shot at Laurie. Laurie doesn’t shop at Best Way for the same reason I don’t -- it is dirty, they pad the meat and the produce is old and expired. Ick.
5:57 pm
Dear Hear Mt. Pleasant:
Two questions: Can you please explain why you're so passionate in your pursuit to allow nightclubs into the MP neighborhood? Please explain how families in MP would benefit from nightclubs? Please no political statements. Just give it to me straight.
Thank you.
6:02 pm
Classism is the systematic oppression of subordinated classes of people by the dominant class. It includes individual attitudes and behaviors; systems of policies and practices that are set up to benefit the upper classes at the expense of the lower classes. Classism is grounded in a hierarchy belief system that ranks people according to socioeconomic status (SES), family lineage, and other class related divisions. This system leads to a drastic income and wealth inequality.
6:07 pm
Dear Wiki,
are you w/Hear Mt. Pleasant? Can you please explain the benefits of nightclubs in MP?
6:56 pm
To answer the falsehoods posed by Laurie and Concerned Citizen:
Yes, I was born in Washington, DC.
I have no problem with the fact that Laurie Collins lives in Cleveland Park and have never spoken out on that issue. I have no problem that she speaks out -- I just don't agree with her and I think she has treated some of our neighbors badly.
I am no longer a musician, and I don't play in a band. About ten years ago I did, but I haven't since then.
And to Monica: I am still involved in this issue because Alberto, Haydee, and Jaime are my friends. I eat at their restaurants all the time. I like to support my friends. I understand your concerns about noise, trash, and public drunkenness, but I disagree that allowing live music will exacerbate those problems. I recognize this is a controversial issue and there are many different ideas about how live music will impact the neighborhood -- you think it would be negative, I think it would be positive. I support Alberto, Haydee, and Jaime in their efforts to responsibly offer cultural entertainment to the neighborhood and I know them, talk with them frequently, and trust them. If I had a friend living in New York, or Kenya for that matter, who owned a business and was facing this kind of unfair opposition, I would do what I could to support them too.
--Andrea Blatchford
7:06 pm
George:
Hear Mt Pleasant is in no way interested in allowing nightclubs into Mt Pleasant, nor are the owners of the three restaurants trying to turn their restaurants into nightclubs. They want to allow live music into their restaurants -- mariachis, bluegrass, folk, blues, spoken word and poetry. I was around when they were allowed to have live music and believe me, the nights when there was live music resembled absolutely nothing like a nightclub. In fact, there wasn't even a whole lot of drinking going on. The owners would like to restore their right to offer music, not turn their places into nightclubs. Hear Mt Pleasant knows this because we have honest, friendly, productive relationships with the business owners and they have told us what they want. Now, I know many people will say we're lying or being somehow deceptive or naive. However, I'd like to know if any of the doubters and detractors have actually sat down with the business owners and asked them whether they want their restaurants to turn into nightclubs. You'll find that they are nice, honest, hardworking business people who care about the community and will be more than receptive to your concerns.
7:23 pm
Dear Andrea,
Good friends support their friends. Who can question that?
But: To be a friend --that is, to do a good thing-- do you need to do something inappropriate? Because it is inappropriate that you are part of a neighborhood organization in a neighborhood that is not yours. It is inappropriate, not to say unethical again, that to be a friend you remain a member of the Steering Committee of this organization that acts for a very debatable change, in a neighborhood that is not yours anymore.
I think you know this, Andrea. But why is it that when you guys know this, you do what is clearly inappropriate? so clearly questionable?. And these words, in all honesty, are more for Natalie Avery than for you. I understand that you just moved away-- As for Natalie, it is nothing less than appalling.
-Monica
7:42 pm
Dear DC Native,
Thank you. I LOVE poetry! I would wholly endorse poetry readings.
I'm curious though about the restaurant owners role in allowing live music. By allowing music, wouldn't there be dancing? And if there's dancing, how would the restaurant owners clear out enough space for dancers? I ask b/c there's a restaurant near the Mayflower Hotel called Panache. Panache is a stylish, urbane & cool restaurant/bar. One night I was enjoying a nice dinner there when the waitress warned me they were preparing to play music. I didn't find it objectionable. No problem, right? Well, the wait staff cleared out most of the tables in the restaurant & Panache the restaurant was transformed into Panache the nightclub. Music was blaring, kids from Maryland & Virginia started to arrive & it got packed! Now, that's great for the owners of Panache. There are no neighbors to bother since it's a business district. However, my friends & work colleagues have seen kids filing out of Panache making a lot of noise, sometimes fights take place & they've witnessed kids puking in the street & the occasional public urination.
Can the restaurant owners in MP assure me this won't happen in the hood? Just curious. I really want to understand the motivation here to allow live music in these restaurants. Is it money? Are patrons demanding live music? Is there data available that shows that these businesses are losing money b/c of no live music?
Thank you for reading this!
8:13 pm
DC NATIVE:
IF THEY DO NOT WANT NIGHTCLUBS, WHY ASK FOR MUSIC UNTIL 1:30, DANCING AND COVER CHARGES?
HOW DO YOU DEFINE A NIGHTCLUB? LETS LOOK AT WIKIPEDIA:
A nightclub (or "night club" or "club") is a drinking, dancing, and entertainment venue which does its primary business after dark. A nightclub is usually distinguished from bars, pubs or taverns, by the inclusion of a dance floor and a DJ booth
YOU MAKE VERY LITTLE SENSE. OR MAYBE THE LATINO OWNERS WANT ONE THING AND YOUR LITTLE CROWD IS PUSHING FOR NIGHTCLUBS FOR THEM.
YOU MIGHT BE ALL COZY WITH BUSINESSES BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUR "FRIENDS". BUT I THINK THAT THE BUSINESSES LAWYERS REFUSED TO TALK TO THE MPNA. SO THERE: PROBABLY NO ONE COULD DIALOGUE WITH THEM BECAUSE OF HATEFUL LAWYERS AND DIVISIVE HEAR MOUNT PLEASANT TACTICS. ATTACKING MPNA IMPEDED ALL DIALOGUE. YOU DO NOT GET IT?
GEEZ!
DECEPTIVE AND NAIVE? RIGHT ON!
8:44 pm
Monica:
Mt Pleasant is not just a neighborhood, but also a community. The sense of community one shares with others can sustain itself well beyond the time one might move outside the neighborhood's physical boundaries. Natalie Avery has a demonstrated commitment to the Mt Pleasant community -- she once lived here for close to a decade, she ran a youth organization for many years whose members live in Mt Pleasant and Columbia Heights, she has organized countless musical benefits for the Community of Christ, Neighbors Consejo, and other organizations in the neighborhood working to better the community, to name only a few of her accomplishments. She has deep and lasting ties to this neighborhood and long, solid relationships with people in the neighborhood, including a lot of the business owners. People in Mt Pleasant value her activism. Her work over many, many years more than gives her a right to sit at the table. She is a welcome, valuable member of our community.
9:33 am
Dear Andrea,
You are right, Mt. Pleasant is a community, as well as a neighborhood.
Look: We all go through life developing ties and links and loves. We belong to many "communities". I have lived in this country for 17 years. Am I part of this community? Yes. Does that give me the right to vote in elections? No. Can I be politically active here in the US? No. Can I give money to any political campaign that works to affect the lives of people in this country? No.
(And I live here, and my three children and my husband are American--talk about ties!)
Why can I not do that? Because I am not a legal resident of the US. Am I part of this community, yes. I am part of more communities than I can count on my two hands! That does not give me a say --let alone the right to act-- in a change that will impact others, much more than it will impact myself.
There is a reason why we say "neighborhood politics", or "national politics" . These are not misnomers: We mean "neighborhood" --that is, for "neighbors". We mean "nation"--that is, for "nationals". We do not mean: "for all those who think or feel that they are part of the community".
Dont take me wrong: I welcome you and Natalie as members of the community of neighbors, ex-neighbors, and people who generally love Mount Pleasant. I do not welcome her (or you) as a NEIGHBORHOOD political activist, or as a member (let alone a Steering Committe, please!) of a NEIGHBORHOOD organization, affecting change in a place where she does not reside. She IS NOT a neighbor.
Again I will repeat, since this point of PRINCIPLE seems to escape all of you: Neighbors like myself are entitled to the knowledge that whatever change happens, it will be brought about by neighbors. But people who reside in this community. Again: No outsiders-- regardless of how compelling their ties seem to you.
(But maybe, I need to turn to popular culture to illustrate this principle: You remember the movie Gandhi? Gandhi (Ben Kingsley) asks the handsome/blond/ super-involved/foreign pastor and partner, to please leave India, and leave Indians alone in their fight for their Independence. He was to be a friend from then on --not a fighter-- just a friend from afar.)
Finally Andrea: I have personally witnessed members of your Steering Committee making a point (and far from politely!-- More like while yelling as if in a vegetable market--) about Ms. Collins residency. I have witnessed an ANC Commissioner and a couple of restaurant owners, doing the same. All of your followers jump on that topic, first --and stay there! :-)
The amazing thing is that somehow, no one has returned in kind all that nonsense to you. Maybe, you have something to learn from the MPNA: they likely knew what I did not know until now--- that there were two non-residents in your Steering committee and an additional two members that are music producers---, and they did not use it to further their point
It is ironic that no one from your side jumped then, at any point, to claim that Ms Collins was part of the "community", while extolling her ties to MtP...
What double standards, people!
Anyway. You and Natalie seem like good people, and I regret that you are not neighbors. Still, I look forward to you and Natalie doing what is right here.
--Monica
10:16 am
George:
Thanks for your questions!
Before the live music ban in MTP, music was an integral part of our neighborhood restaurants. Don Juan's hosted a neighborhood cabaret and Trolley's regularly hosted mariachi bands. Dancing was not banned. Our restaurants were gathering places for neighbors and friends.
Each of the restaurants that applied for an entertainment endorsement has done so because music is an integral part of their cultures and their customers are asking them to fight the ban. Two of the restaurant owners live in Mt Pleasant and have raised or are raising families here. The third lives close by, but has been a part of our community for over a decade. Each of these restaurants is committed to community- and family-friendly entertainment. With professional help from a sound engineer, each has already conducted a sound assessment, is making or has already made needed improvements, and is committed to a sound management plan. Yes, they want and need to increase business in order to be competitive with new restaurants opening in Columbia Heights and to pay their bills. But they have no interest in driving away the very people who are working so hard to bring live entertainment back to MtP Street.
None of these restaurants has asked or seeks to be a nightclub. . . Don Jaime envisions jazz and wine tastings. Don Juan is also working on menu changes and wants to offer his restaurant to neighborhood groups and local musicians during the week (not much money there) and host Latin music on Friday and Saturday nights. Haydee would like to be able to see Mariachis return and perhaps offer some Salsa. Her customers clamor to book birthdays and family celebrations with live music, but she can’t accommodate their wishes. Doesn't sound like night clubbing to me. If it did, I wouldn't support it either and neither would the majority of supporters of Hear MTP. We are all opposed to turning this neighborhood into Adams Morgan. But we also don't agree that music or dancing makes people drink more or act irreponsibislity.
Have you eaten at Rumberos by any chance? For a period of time, they booked one of MtP’s own fine jazz musicians. Unfortunately, he can't play in his own neighborhood. People even get up and dance at Rumberos, but no one has ever accused Rumberos of being a nightclub.
Unfortunately, some people have whipped up a frenzy of concern over what is a non-issue. Neither Haydee, Alberto Ferrufino nor Jaime Carrillo want to be nightclub operators. What they do what is the freedom to offer live entertainment to their customers in a responsible, community- and family-friendly way.
11:07 am
A few corrections. Music was never "banned" in Mt. Pleasant. This is such a idiotic statement you guys like to use in your marketing campaign to get attention that people are, quite frankly, sick and tired of. Do you actually think people believe that culture and musical expression can only happen in bars and no where else EVER?
The other reason why music was never "banned" was because the applicants you mention listed "recorded music only" in their applications and never wanted live entertainment in the first place. Mr. Ferrifino took over the original quiet restaurant Don Juan's from his uncle after he died and turned it into a nightclub which was eventually challenged because they agreed to no live music-- it was only AFTER they agreed did they renege and had "cabaret" and 7-piece bands started showing up at Haydees.
Mariachis is another part of the racial aspect you feel you need to use for attention. Mariachis were never banned and left because they can't get $5 a song--MPNA always supported the roaming mariachis. Had you been around, Andrea, when the community discussed it, you would have known.
And to both you and Music fan, who really think I said all that vile stuff--- you are drinking way too much of the Kool-Aid.
11:38 am
DC NATIVE:
IF THEY DO NOT WANT NIGHTCLUBS, WHY ASK FOR MUSIC UNTIL 1:30, DANCING AND COVER CHARGES?
HOW DO YOU DEFINE A NIGHTCLUB? LETS LOOK AT WIKIPEDIA:
A nightclub (or "night club" or "club") is a drinking, dancing, and entertainment venue which does its primary business after dark. A nightclub is usually distinguished from bars, pubs or taverns, by the inclusion of a dance floor and a DJ booth
RUMBEROS HAS NO COVER CHARGE AND RUMBEROS IS NOT RIGHT ACCROSS ANY RESIDENCE. AROUND RUMBEROS THERE IS JUST PURE COMMERCE, NOT ONE HOME. RUMBEROS MAIN OFFERING IS EXCELLENT CUISINE AND NOT ALCOHOL OR EVEN MUSIC. RUMBEROS OFFERS PARKING.
THIS IS WHY PEOPLE ARE "WHIPPED IN A FRENZY"? ( SO CLASSY OF YOU, LADY). YOU ARE NOT ONLY DECEIVING AND NAIVE. ON TOP OF THAT YOU DO NOT EVEN LIVE HERE, SO AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE DOG IN THIS FIGHT!!
LATIN DANCING IN DON JUAN??? GEORGE, THE PLACE IS A DIVE AND RECORDED VIOLATIONS FROM THIS RESTAURANT ARE A DIME A DOZEN. HIS PATRONS DRAWN IN ALCOHOL, PISS OUTSIDE AND FIGHT, ETC. ETC. ETC. NOT EVEN HEAR MOUNT PLEASANT CAN SAY DIFFERENT. CAN YOU, DC NATIVE?.
THIS IS WHY NEIGHBORS ARE ANGRY: NO ASSURANCES BUT THE WORDS OF PEOPLE LIKE DC NATIVE. IMAGINE THAT!
2:51 pm
Dear DC Native,
Thank you for your comments. I don't have anything else to add. But one question was left unanswered. The restaurant owners. Do they want to add live music b/c there's proof it will increase their profit margin? I just want to understand the motivation here.
Thank you.
g
3:07 pm
DC Native and Hear Mount Pleasant:
- What is a nightclub for you? Maybe I do not underrstand, but what you just described seems like three nightclubs to me. Am I missing something?
-Are the "outsiders" quitting? . It seems to me that they should.
Thank you
3:38 pm
George: Yes, they want and need to increase business in order to be competitive with new restaurants opening in Columbia Heights and to pay their bills. But also, music is an integral part of their cultures and their customers are asking them to fight the ban.
new to the hood: What I described doesn't sound like a nightclub to me. When I think of nightclub, I think more of what George described in his previous post about a place called Panache. Haydee's, Don Juan, and Don Jaime are family-friendly restaurants. It's part of their cultural experience to offer music along with food and friends. In fact, Adrian Fenty is the first mayor who has not been able to hear mariachis while dining at Haydee's -- our previous mayors have. Certainly some establishments in DC have, unfortunately, masked themselves as restaurants when they really only want to be clubs. It's really too bad that these bad actors have made people so wary and suspicious about allowing live entertainment in restaurants owned by business folks who really only want to offer cultural entertainment in places where their patrons want to have it, and to make some extra money in order to stay afloat.
Again, for those who are suspicious, wary, mistrustful . . . meet the owners yourselves. And, by all means, visit our website and come to our meetings!
4:02 pm
The Mayor? Has it occurred to you that the reason the Mayor hasn't been able to hear music while dining at Haydee's is because Haydee's never had explicit permission from the city's alcohol agency to provide live entertainment?
Since "our previous mayors" which amounts only to 1, Mayor Williams, since Haydee's been opened, had seen them, I wonder if he knew he was dining in an establishment that was breaking the law?
Wow, this gets better and better.......
4:59 pm
DC Native: I am more confused than ever. Please tell me again: What is a nightclub for you?
Maybe it is a cultural thing that people must dance and listen to live music until late in the night while they drink with their friends. In this country we call that a nightclub. If it is kids from virginia or latinos or "families" (whatever), does it really matter? Please explain this better to me again.
You forgot to answer my last question: are the "outsiders" going to quit? after reading this, I truly believe they should (sorry!).
I already have seen Don Juan and have read in the Forunm horror stories about this place. Don Juan seems like a bar that no one should support. Why do you? Or you think all the neigbor complaints are false?
Thanks!!
6:43 pm
Billy Bob Boy:
Mayors before Williams went to Haydee's restaurant before it became Haydee's, when it was still Trolley's. I should have been more clear on that.
new to the hood: Yes, I do support Don Juan's. I like his restaurant, go there often, and haven't had any problems with his business. The noise concerns have been addressed by sound engineers who have collaborated with Alberto and implemented an effective sound management plan. And while people claim that there are drunk and disorderly people coming out of his restaurant and causing problems, it seems, from lots of conversations with people in the neighborhood, that many of them aren't necessarily Don Juan patrons. There are indigent, chronic alcoholics who drink in Lamont Park, and loud, rowdy college age kids coming from Marx and Tonic. This isn't to say that Don Juan never has a drunk or loud person exiting the restaurant, just that it's very unlikely that Don Juan is the sole culprit. Furthermore, interventions that get to the root problem are what's called for in such a situation: effective substance abuse programs and street outreach to help addicts. The mere presence of live music does not increase drunk or disorderly conduct.
Frankly, to borrow from the ABRA testimony of Ms. Najiya Shana'a, former Director of Neighbor's Consejo, I just don't see how “voluntary agreements” that prohibit or severely restrict live music are the solution to the very complicated economic, social and cultural nature of poverty and addiction. They are simply two completely separate issues.
As for my idea of what a nightclub is, I thought I referenced the description of Panache provided by George. I'm not sure if going back and forth on this forum is the most productive way to have this dialogue, perhaps a conversation, face-to-face and in real time would better serve the purpose. It would be great if you came to our next meeting, March 10 at 7pm at La Casa. Or, myself or other members of Hear Mt Pleasant are always willing to meet in person. If you're interested let me know and we'll figure out a way to do that.
Thanks.
7:11 pm
Monica/Maya
Your posts remind me of a child who believes they are right all the time. Why do you believe you can tell either group what they have to do as far as their members? You should at least be consistent between the two groups. Your posts are hurting your cause, listen to people, and stop being so "Listen to me!" I hope that we taxpayers aren't paying for you to post here all day long. Step away from the computer, and get out there . Sounds like the others are.
7:31 pm
DC Native:
You are avoiding replying my question of wether "outsiders" to the neighborhood should quit. that is a reel turn off for me. i do not want to be used by people with an agenda that do not even live in mount pleasant.
unless you can devote two lines to define what a a nightclub is, and to explain what distinguishes what will transpire in these restaurants from nightclubs all your words are useless.
But hey! ending communication when things get inconvenient is your prerrogative. Laurie Collins, you just won one adept here.
7:46 pm
new to the hood:
how on earth inviting you to meet in person and have a live conversation constitutes ending a conversation is beyond me. i've twice referenced a pretty detailed description of a nightclub and described in detail what the restaurant owners want and how it differs from a nightclub. i honestly don't know how much more information i can give.
except for the "outsiders" issue. we don't consider ourselves outsiders, nor does hear mt pleasant consider us outsiders, nor to the owners of the businesses we regularly patronize consider us outsiders, nor do our many friends and former neighbors consider us outsiders. so no, i do not agree that we should quit.
9:21 pm
DC Native no longer carries any weight in this conversation. She should give up -- read the writing on the wall--take your crayons and go home to LeDroit Park!
6:49 am
WCP Reader:
Your post reminds me of someone that is incapable of formulating a persuasive argument. If you disagree with a point that Monica has made in one of her postings, then refute it intelligently; otherwise, keep your pathetic ad hominem attacks to yourself.
5:37 pm
Man, Y'all make me happy I left Mt. P. I left like so many of the other 20010 residents at one point in time. I came back to find the hood substantially gentrified, and much angrier. What happened to the Mt. P love? This is the whole reason I left Robert's forum he ran back in the day. You guys have people writing stuff like "GET THE HELL OUT!!!( OR TRY TO SAVE SOME MONEY, AND MAYBE THEN YOU CAN BUY IN HERE)" and "take your crayons and go home to LeDroit Park!"
Mt. P has been a lot of things for a lot of people. Many of those people don't live there anymore because the rent has gotten to expensive, at the benefit of homeowners and disadvantage of those who used to rent there. Many of those who rented there before are the reason why your neighborhood gentrified so much, thus making it to where you are better off than you once were.
Friends, please, it makes sense that this should be an open discussion in which people will be opinionated, but the postings here sum up so much of what has happened in this neighborhood. Can you please try to keep this discussion to the issues at hand, which, as I recall is whether music should be allowed in three establishments in the hood. Sure there is property values to consider, and sure you are all justified in being worried about Adams Morgan encrouchment (and please feel free to flame me for my poor spelling skills), and it is also true that Mt. P would, along with having more public urination, have more soul if it had a band. But there isno reason to get all nasty here.
Frankly, I feel that if you would have let mark put his jazz band into Marx Cafe a few years back, Mt. P would have become a hippy takoma park space, where you all could feel good about living in a progressive neighborhood and you wouldn't have to worry about drunk people, because no drunk person wants to have to deal with an uppity white guy in a beret. ESPECIALLY after 10 pm.
10:35 pm
i want to make two comments. One, i think that only residents of the neighborhood should have a say in what happens in the neighborhood regarding the issue at hand. DC Native could not convincingly argue otherwise.
Two, i think that Glen is right on the money. people are really angry. Glen: this is the result of one group (hear mtp) accusing another of racism and discrimination to get what they want. i think hear mount pleasant has done irreparable damage to mount pleasant by putting neighbors against neighbors and that is a real shame. i am happy i rent because i think this neighborhood will become unpleasant. actually it is unpleasant now.
10:42 pm
Funny... Latinoguy doesn't seem to know spanish... "dios te vendiga"? I believe, no, in fact I know so, because I am in fact latino and not just pretending to be, that the correct spelling of "god bless you" in Spanish is "que dios te bendiga".
Keep on truckin' Hear Mount Pleasant!