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Author: Dan Savage
Author: Savage
Issue: 2009/11/18
Issue Volume: 29

Risking Nothing to Get in Her Pants A potential fling bailed after I told her I have an open marriage. Why?

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I am a happily married, happily nonmonogamous male. We are not wild swinger types. For us it’s more about the fact that monogamy does not work than about nailing everything that walks by. Anyway, I have encountered an odd situation a few times now, and again last night, where I’ll be flirting with a potential fling and she knows I’m married and she’s very interested. But when she finds out my marriage is nonmonogamous, she suddenly backs out. Case in point, a coworker: We have been flirting since I started my new job a few months ago. Today she asked me what my wife would do if she found out I was sneaking around on her. Good time to make a full disclosure! But when I told her my situation, that was the end of our flirtation.

Any idea why women find the idea of cheating with me okay, but once they find out I have a free go of things, they walk? —No Figuring Women

 

This woman didn’t find the idea of cheating with you “okay,” NFW, she wanted to fuck you because you’re married and presumably monogamous. Try to look at it from her perspective: When she thought you were willing to cheat on your wife to be with her, NFW, that meant you found her so attractive, so utterly irresistible, that you would break your marriage vows and risk everything to get into her pants. Sleeping with her with your wife’s permission? Meh, where’s the ego boost in that? —Dan

 

I am a 40-ish married straight woman living in New York. I have been happily married in a monogamous relationship for 11 years. My husband and I met when we were in our early 20s. After listening to all of the Savage Lovecasts together, we started to talk about the idea of “some degree of openness,” as you put it.

In the past year, I have had a crush on a coworker. My husband is okay with me having something on the side with this coworker. This coworker is single (last I heard) and 17 years younger (yikes!), and he knows I am married. We had a great working relationship while we were assigned to a project together, but now he’s in another department. My question is, how to go from here? After having a few good talks with my husband, I am excited about this idea and terrified. I’m having a private lunch with my coworker soon. This is fine with my husband. What can you tell me to calm me the hell down and not be so stressed? After being conditioned my whole life that monogamy is the only way to go, I am having a hard time shifting! —Newly Open Couple Lacks Understanding & Education

 

Have that lunch, and tell your coworker/crush that you and the husband are just beginning to explore the idea of openness. For all you know now, your much-younger coworker may not be interested in being your piece on the side. If it turns out that he is interested, take things very, very slowly and keep your husband fully informed. But even if I could relieve you of your stress and anxiety with a few words, NOCLUE, I wouldn’t. You should be anxious and stressed out; it’s appropriate to be anxious and stressed out. Your nervousness is prompting you to take things slowly and to be careful and conscientious about your husband’s feelings. If this works out—for you, for your coworker, for your husband—it will be in large part thanks to the stress, NOCLUE, not despite it. Enjoy. —Dan

 

I am in a strange situation. I work in the corporate sector in marketing and sales. It is a high-stress, fast-paced job, and everyone has a short fuse. I have a coworker who is losing business to a competitor who happens to be gay. In her fits of anger, she keeps calling him a faggot. I hate it. The thing is, I am not gay. And if anyone in our office is, they are in the closet. She has used the word in front of other coworkers and even our boss, and no one seems to be bothered.

I am torn about what I should do. I am black, and if she was using the word “nigger,” I would call her on it and raise issue with our HR department. Can I file a complaint on behalf of a group I do not belong to? If she found out I complained, she would see it as a threat to her own job, which could lead to a decidedly hostile workplace. But if it was a racial slur, I would not let that deter me. I want to do the right thing. How would you handle the situation? —Not My Problem?

 

If someone at my office were tossing the word “nigger” around, NMP, I would lodge a complaint. I would resent the assumption on my coworker’s part that since I’m white she can use racist speech in my presence, because, hey, all us white people are racist POS, right? And I would complain because a workplace that tolerates racist remarks is a workplace that tolerates homophobic remarks. If people are using “nigger” when there aren’t any black people in the room, they’re doubtless using “faggot” when there aren’t any gay people in the room. And vice versa. Have a word with HR. —Dan

 

I have a new coworker, a young man who is gay and quite effeminate. He’s slim, wears makeup, has boyish/feminine features, and has done some modeling work as a woman. He said in a lunchroom discussion today that he prefers to wear women’s clothes. He said he had worn women’s clothes at a previous workplace, and no one had been offended. I suggested he talk to HR to protect his job before coming to work dressed in women’s clothing. Good advice or should I just mind my own business? One coworker suggested that he work up to it, while another said he should just do it and let the chips fall where they may. The question of what restroom he should use when dressed as a woman came up. I’m not 100 percent comfortable sharing the ladies’ room with him. Though I am certain most of the men won’t be comfortable sharing the men’s room with him either.

Do you have any suggestions on how to handle situations where I might find myself in the same restroom as my newest coworker? —She Knows It’s Really Trivial

 

If your coworker identifies as female, she should use the women’s room. If he identifies as male, he should use the men’s room. And seeing as he’s using the men’s room now—despite his wearing makeup and being openly gay—I don’t see how the addition of a dress should change things for his male coworkers. And from the way you describe that lunchroom conversation, SKIRT, it sounds like your effeminate new coworker has at least some support at work—but yes, he should have a talk with HR.

As for “handl[ing] situations” where you find yourself in the same restroom with your newest coworker, SKIRT, unless you routinely offer to zip up your coworkers or wipe their asses for them, I don’t see how his presence—or his attire or the particular brand of genitalia tucked into his panties—really impacts you at all. —Dan Savage

 

Send your Savage Love questions to mail@savagelove.net.

Comments

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  • I think there is another angle to the case of women backing off when the fellow in the open marriage explains his relationship to them. If he were to "cheat" with any woman who didn't know about his non-monogamous nature, she would inevitably think, at least once, even if she didn't want him to, that he might leave his wife to be with her. If he's in an open marriage, this simply isn't on the table. So she would always just be the piece on the side, and never even have the status of "mistress."

    Mistresses always have a degree of power: they can threaten to tell wifey. If the wife already knows, the other lady has no bargaining power at all, and (she would think) no real hold over him.From her point of view, he could walk at any time, and hey, he's not monogamous anyway, so who knows how many other ladies he's hitting it with?

  • M'Leah Woodard Nov. 19, 2009
    1:38 pm

    Agreed. Well said.

    Also- NMP with the hostile work work place. First, you are commended for thinking about this and wanting to take action. Your questions are legal ones.

    --Contact your local law school. A professor there, no doubt, is interested in gay/lesbian/trans law issues. Find that professor and ask her/him to look into it. The prof. might put a student on it. Work closely with that student.

    --Yes, talk to HR as Dan suggests

    --Think about showing your question and the response to your co-worker. This would be a good faith "fair warning" that her comments aren't ok.

  • "If he were to "cheat" with any woman who didn't know about his non-monogamous nature, she would inevitably think, at least once, even if she didn't want him to, that he might leave his wife to be with her. If he's in an open marriage, this simply isn't on the table."

    Of course that's on the table. It's *always* on the table. Just as it's on the table that the woman is actually even more interested yet shut her mouth about it because she didn't even have *that* to keep her from doing it. Things happen that way. There are a lot of potential reasons why what this guy says happened, happened. Trying to say that it is one thing or another is just guesswork. And in the end the only thing that matters is whether this slimeball gets in her panties or someone elses' panties. Someone's going to get into hers, and he's going to get into some other womans...possibly even his wife. Whatever. Who cares, Nancy Grace? Whatever.

    Re #2 sorry if calling a competitor who works in another company a faggot is an HR issue then why not calling him an asshole or any other derogatory comment. Certainly she could be let go for "verbal harassment" for saying anything with any negative connotation about anyone in the world, anyplace, as long as it's in the workplace, maybe even at the company picnic! Who said that fags don't have thin skin...but they certainly have thick skin when it comes to a cross-dressing homo who can't decide which bathroom to use. I guess that he's not a REAL woman because surely they would NOT want a man in their bathroom. Whether he "identifies" as a woman or whatever. I'm sure that they look forward to sharing a toilet seat with his aids-infested asshole.

  • ...not to mention that this guy is telling his coworker that he's in a marriage of convenience. I guess that he's also in a relationship of convenience with his coworkers, or sees no problem with that. No mention of HR here? Why not call HR and tell them that Johnny in Accounting is trying to fuck Susan? Sorry, "open to it and available for it"? whatever

  • LOL "I was open to and available for sex with certain of my female subordinates, and some of them took advantage of this. However in now way did this affect our working relationship and *certainly* there were no rewards to have sex with me or pressure to do so, either. Certainly no punishment for *not* availing themselves of their numerous opportunities to have sex with me, other than, of course, missing out on having sex with me. But then I assume that they made up for it by having sex with other people."

    Excellent defense, Dave! :)

    Question though: just how "open and available" were you for sex with your coworkers? Are you an equal-opportunity sex-toy, or did you display any restrictions based on race, age or gender? Very important question! Second were you "open and available for sex" only after work hours and only off-site, or was this a tendency during the work hours or even at the worksite? We really need to know!

    Naw, it's not quite possible that the only thing that matters is that he fucked several of the female members of his comedy staff, no pun intended.

  • ...

    "I am a happily married, happily nonmonogamous male. We are not wild swinger types. For us it’s more about the fact that monogamy does not work than about nailing everything that walks by."

    And for this woman the issue is very likely that once she found out that his definition of "marriage" is "I have a wife but not only do I have sex with other women (possibly you) but my wife thinks that it's ok, and *she* can have sex with other men, and that's ok with me too!" she just MIGHT have figured out that he was far too much of a skank for her to deal with. Even if he appealed to hear at first *because* he was married (in the classical sense).

    I mean it's like saying that he believes in peace, love and harmony except when he's out raping, killing and pillaging. Not too much surprise here. The guys a psycho, not the respectable man that she thought he was before she delved deeper. Unfortunately for him he was honest enough to tell her the truth that to him "cheating" doesn't include having sex with women other than his wife.

  • Man, I wish you would realize this is a nationally syndicated column and that these people that wrote in will never ever see your comments. You're wasting your fingerstrokes. *Looks at jfc1*

  • hm, so no one reads these comments locally? Interesting.

    Anyway since when is a man risking nothing to get into a womans' panties? This whole article is ludicrous, really.

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Author: Dan Savage
Author: Savage
Issue: 2009/11/18
Issue Volume: 29
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