A Brief History of Date Lab Racism
We know that the vast majority of daters in the Washington Post Magazine's blind date feature, Date Lab, discriminate based on gender. Of the 3,300 potential District daters in the Post's applicant pool, only 9 identify as bisexual—and only one bi woman has actually been set up on a date.
So how many local Date Lab daters discriminate based on skin color? Plenty! A brief history:
A lot of daters set up by the Washington Post just don't want to date white people. Set up last March, professor Steven Kelts requested anyone but a white lady: He asked for "An Asian, Indian, Latino or black woman who is educated, likes to talk about ideas and wants to travel the world with me!" Another dater told Date Lab, “I tend to like girls that show signs of being foreign-born or maybe have something ethnically awesome about their looks.” Sadly, the Post matched him with a woman with a “Midwestern” appearance.
Other daters are looking to date exclusively white. In 2009, Patrick Chang stated a preference for “Tall, Caucasian women." Unfortunately, his date told the magazine this: “I tend not to find Asians attractive." When she met Chang, "With a name like Patrick I was kind of expecting an Irish guy," she admitted. "I tried to be as open-minded as possible." The pair declined to pursue a second date.
Chang's date isn't the only one to nix the entire continent: In one 2008 date, both Asian daters didn't date Asians. "I thought he was attractive and well put together, but you always have to end it with 'for an Asian guy,'" Stephanie Villaflor told the Post. "I don't usually date Asian guys." Her date, Christopher Dum, admitted: "I've only really dated white girls." Daters are generally open about their intra-racial racism: In 2006, a half-Filipino, half-Indian guy revealed a prejudice against Indian women—he finds them “a little snobby.”
Most racial preferences are aired out of disappointment—when the date who arrives is a little too white or a little too Indian. But sometimes, racial preference makes a match. Son Vang told the paper his date has "gotta be Asian, preferably Vietnamese." When Caroline T. Nguyen arrived, "I wasn't sure if my date was going to be Asian, so I was pleasantly surprised when she was," he said. Later, Vang told the paper: "At first we were trying to figure out why The Post set us up. We thought it might be the Asian thing." They hit it off.
Dater prejudice isn't limited to race, of course. After being set up with a man who uses a wheelchair, one dater reported being “really mad” at Date Lab for refraining from disclosing her date's disability prior to the meeting. “I felt like I was set up . . . I'd look like a jerk, and he'd just be ‘the handicapped guy,’" she told Date Lab. "I also didn't think it was fair to him—what if I had turned out to be a mean, tactless person?” What if.
For the record: Date Lab's gays daters can be prejudiced, too. “He's attractive, but [he has] this whole aura [of] your basic white guy,” Bob Baden said of his 2008 same-sex date. “I go for a more ethnic or foreign look.”
1:11 pm
It's crazy how openly racist some people can be when it comes to the context of sexual attraction. I've had (white) friends say "I just don't think black/Asian/Hispanic guys are attractive." And I'm all..."what, ALL of them?"
1:18 pm
How is that racist? Is it my fault I don't think blondes are attractive at all? What a dumb thing to say.
1:21 pm
I really think it's a matter of preference and not a matter of ethnicity. You're attracted to who you're attracted to. Some people prefer blondes, others prefer brunettes. It's not discrimination. You can't help what features you're attracted to. Some people are attracted to Asians, some are attracted to whites, some are attracted to them all. Just because you have a preference on the basis of someone's ethnicity, doesn't make you racist. It's like having a preference for someone who's tall versus someone who's short. If you're going to prefer an Asian over someone who's white, it's probably because of the culmination of looks that tend to occur more among Asians.
Why does everything have to come down to being about racism?
1:24 pm
It is racial discrimination! It's just benign racial discrimination.
1:29 pm
whats crazy about personal sexual preferences?
i'm an men and i'm not sexually attracted to other men. is that sexist?
no. its my personal taste.
1:31 pm
amanda, is it discrimination or racism? you're calling it both. are those the same thing?
1:32 pm
But you can't help who you're attracted to. If this is racial discrimination, then it seems, EVERYTHING is about race. And if we make everything a matter of race, isn't that just propelling the problem? It just seems like an exhausting way to live. To read into everything, to making everything an issue of race. Can't we just all get along.
1:37 pm
It's funny that Kim Chi Ha has decided to weigh in on this. I'm sure it's easy for you to navigate through issues of race when you ascribe particular attributes to specific races as you so racistly did in a post last month. Remember when you asserted that *all* black people are funny? When are you going to be fired?
1:38 pm
@Amanda: exactly.
@kza, Kim Chi Ha: you can't help who you're attracted to, but you can help making blanket statements about entire races of people that are probably based on stereotypes and subconscious or overt racial discrimination (you being used generally here). We have to at least be willing to consider what informs our attitudes and ideals of what makes a person "attractive." It's not just genetics.
1:40 pm
Has Date Lab ever set up a Native American?
1:41 pm
I agree it is benign racial discrimination. They may be personal preferences but those preferences are most likely subconsciously formed on the basis of different cultural attitudes and stereotypes that are important to examine.
1:43 pm
I agree with Kim. It's a matter of preference. Please stop misusing the term racism. Denying someone a date because of their race is no different than denying someone a date because their occupation or educational attainment or hair color.. People have preferences. They like what they like.
Now if you wanted to make an case that people do not date certain races based on prejudices, then that is a different argument. BUT prejudice and racism are NOT interchangeable terms.
1:45 pm
If it was really just about looks, that might be one thing--we're attracted to what we're attracted to. If I have a thing for dark skin, or blond hair, or green eyes, then I'm likely to find myself attracted to people from ethnic or racial groups in which those features are more common. But (1) not all people in the same ethnic group look the same. There is a *huge* amount of variation in terms of hair color, skin color, facial features, etc. among Caucasians, Hispanics, African-Americans, Indians, Asians, etc., which makes a statement like "I don't find Indians attractive" just stupid. And (2) not all of these daters are speaking purely in terms of looks. Some of them are pretty open about their prejudices. Plus, to not even really give someone a chance because of their race is discrimination. I mean, let's say I generally prefer guys with dark hair. That doesn't have to mean that I write off a blond guy without giving him a chance, which some of these daters do. There's having your general preferences and then there is refusing to see past those and evaluate the actual person in front of you. I mean, they're already on the date, so their time is a sunk cost. Would it kill them not to decide in the first five seconds that they aren't interested in this person because they have the wrong skin color/eye color/hair color?
My real objection though, is that it's stupid dating behavior. Sometimes a good match for you is someone you are not initially head-over-heels for, or who doesn't match your superficial checklist. Sometimes attraction grows over time, as you get to know someone. Sometimes looks become less important as deeper connections develop. Even if it's not racist, it's pretty shallow and self-limiting.
1:50 pm
@Native JD I searched the database for that and some related terms and nothing came up. So either a) they haven't; b) they have, but didn't mention ethnicity (not all Date Labs do); c) they used some other descriptor I didn't use.
You should apply!
@Kim Chi Ha How do you take a statement like "I tend not to find Asians attractive" and make this about something other than race? It's about race. Whether you believe those racial prejudices are harmful or not is another question entirely. I mostly just find it funny that Date Lab is the one place where you're allowed to express your racial prejudices, because it's about sex. But personally, I'd say that calling Indian women in general "a little snobby" speaks to something more than innate sexual attraction.
@s They're not the same, but I think it's both in this case. It's obviously not discrimination in a legal sense.
1:52 pm
@Katie all i'm saying is, why does everything about to be considered 'racism'? So what if someone is attracted to only Asians or only whites? What is the big deal? Are we going to go on a tirade about how they should really think about their choices, and how they're of course only basing their attraction on stereotypes? Why do we have to read into everything so much? Initial attraction happens in a matter of a seconds. Far less time for one to stand there and think about attitudes and ideals and beliefs.
I'm aware people are people and at the end of the day, when you find someone that you actually love, it's really not going to matter if they turn out to be white when all along you were only attracted to Asians. I mean, we're not talking about long term here. We're simply talking about initial attraction. Some people are initially attracted to Blacks, others Whites, others Latinos. Some people throw up at the sight of a "bro" and others love guys in suits, while others prefer people with tattoos.
Why do we have to decipher peoples preferences and break them down to being some part of racism? Racism is a REAL issue and by using that term in relation to matters like this, it seems to break it down unnecessarily.
2:00 pm
Also in relation to this:
"But sometimes, racial preference makes a match. Son Vang told the paper his date has “gotta be Asian, preferably Vietnamese.” When Caroline T. Nguyen arrived, “I wasn’t sure if my date was going to be Asian, so I was pleasantly surprised when she was,” he said."
--- It could be a cultural preference. I mean, the guy was vietnamese and he wanted to date someone who was Vietnamese. It doesn't mean he was trying to be racist. Vietnamese is also not a 'race'. Either way, it could also be a cultural thing. If he's in his mid-twenties, his parents probably don't speak english well, and if he's going to want to marry the girl, maybe he'd like that she'd be able to speak Vietnamese to his parents.
--- Sometimes when people prefer certain ethnicities, it's not even about the looks, but about the cultural differences that split us. I mean, someone who's Korean and someone who's Irish, may both have been born and raised in America - but culturally, as a result of perhaps where their parents grew up, the differences may be incredible. So when someone says they prefer someone who's white over someone who's Asian, for example, it may not even be a looks thing, but a cultural thing.
--- To say "Date Lab brings racism..." is kind of a blanket statement in itself. Which may be just as dangerous/ignorant as saying, "I prefer dating only Asians."
Just my 10 cents.
2:01 pm
@Kim Chi Ha: Part of racism's being a "REAL issue" is that it DOES get broken down, manipulated, interjected into people's actions, thoughts, and attitudes. Just because something happens in an instant doesn't make it ok. Just because a homophobe has a reflexive and visceral reaction to a gay couple holding hands doesn't mean we can't question the homophobe's attitudes.
If we're only talking about "initial" attraction that would be one thing, but we're not. People in the above story are writing off entire races from the start, so much so that they have to write in to COMPLAIN about another human being's ethnicity. As in: you knew I wasn't attracted to Asians, and yet I got set up with one? THE NERVE.
Finally: "I’m aware people are people and at the end of the day, when you find someone that you actually love, it’s really not going to matter if they turn out to be white when all along you were only attracted to Asians." ....what?! That sentence suggests, as I did earlier, that it would be stupid to dismis an entire race, because there are always exceptions and it's stupid to live this way. Also, unrelatedly, it sort of sounds like you're describing a sneaky white, and that makes me chuckle.
2:02 pm
@Kit-Kat On that front, J. Freedom du Lac just tweeted this Date Lab from 2006:
Neville: From the first glance, it was like, It ain't happening . There was an awkward moment---mutual disappointment or surprise or whatever. Physically, Jennifer was fine. But I wasn't expecting a white girl.
Jennifer: I assumed he knew I was black. Both of my parents are African American. When I sat down, he started with the rapid-fire questions: Where did you grow up? Were you class president? He was fixated on the early years. Hopefully, he didn't see me roll my eyes. Normally, people don't ask you about high school when you're in your forties.
2:03 pm
"Are we going to go on a tirade about how they should really think about their choices"- YES!!!!!!!!. Because unless we point out how racist people like you are, they may continue deluding themselves into thinking that putting neat little stereotypical boxes (all black people are funny) around ethnicities is somehow not racist.
You're basically refuting the entire point of this blog. Amanda, the world isn't sexist, why are you reading into it so much? Geez. Just take your shirt off, baby. Hey, I just prefer women who will do whatever I want, don't read into it.
2:16 pm
Amanda, that whole date lab is awesome. He suggests that she should have told him she wasn't white. Later, he claims that it wouldn't have mattered, and that "culturally, she was a white girl." He then indicates his plans to hit on the 20-something dreads-sporting hostess.
2:18 pm
My mother told me she always preferred dark-haired men – but she ended up falling in love with and marrying a blond guy (my father), to whom she's still married almost 40 years later. So sometimes what you may think is a strong preference turns out not to really matter so much when you meet the right person – something you don't find out if you never even allow the opportunity.
On a side note, I can't even count how many times I've heard men say they're not attracted to blondes, or they prefer a more 'exotic-looking' woman. When I was still single I checked out online dating, and so many profiles said one of those two things openly. Now whatever, everyone may have little things they find especially attractive, but why go out of your way to tell an entire population you think they're ugly/boring/un-datable based on some superficial trait? I didn't want to date someone who made those comments even when I did meet their 'specs'! Some of those 'specs' just read like a person's custom love-robot design, it's creepy.
2:18 pm
This is stupid. I'm not attracted to blond white girls so therefor I'm racist against myself...huh? Sweet logic.
2:48 pm
Litmus test for whether something you're saying is racist or not: Would you be willing to say it face-to-face to someone of the race/ethnicity you're talking about? If not, it's probably racist. If so, it might still be racist and you might be a colossal asshole.
2:58 pm
Oh, lord. So now it's racist to prefer a certain ethnicity or exclude others. In your personal life?
So are all black women RACIST for never dating Asian guys?
Feel free to tell me the numerous examples of black women dating Asian men...
3:25 pm
No one's making the argument that not dating people of other races isn't racist, no matter what your race is. I don't personally know any black women dating asian men, but protip: Saying "All x people always/never do y" is not really helping you look not-racist.
3:36 pm
What ever happened to "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"? Does everyone have to find everyone else equally pretty?
If you are a rock climber who is looking for a date with someone who shares your interest in the sport, should it be a shocker that you might exclude the handicapped in your pursuit of a life partner? Just because you don't want to date someone doesn't mean you wish them ill or even that you find yourself superior to them.
Is it sexism if you are hetero and don't want to give someone of the same sex as yourself a chance on a date? Free your mind, there is no such thing as hetero or gay!
Is it ageism if one only considers people who are within a couple years difference from their own? Older women rock, most of them know their way around the block without a GPS.
I chose white walls in my home, I like how white looks on my walls. The previous owner of my house chose dusty rose, which I found offensive and oppressive. But, I guess that makes me a bigot with regard to taste for disagreeing with the previous owner's sense of beauty.
Some people find patchy skin less than ideal, freckles are patches on skin. I like my freckles, and I have found that some others do too, though just not everyone.
I have hair on my back which I don't like, but I am sure that some others don't mind it as much as me because as I have banged fems from every continent, race and creed. You see, with the exception of the hair on my back I am perfect. But I don't want to date some lady with a hairy back fetish because I find fetishism ugly.
I don't do fat chicks because fat is a sign of glut and immorality, I find the immorality-of-being-fat ugly not the fat itself you see. Don't get me wrong, I've done fat misses too but given the choice I go for the more moral skinny ones.
I smoke and prefer to date people who wont judge me on my smoking habit. Smoking is a sign of maturity and taste and I only want to date people who are similarly mature so long as they aren't immoral and fat.
I prefer kinky BDSM style sex, but in a pinch I'll do the missionary thing and I have had fun doing so. All sex is fun, if you aren't having fun with sex you shouldn't be doin' it. I say shouldn't but not won't, because as we all know, the chances are that eventually you will find yourself bedded by me if you are a gal. And I'll still have my fun despite your sullen gesturing.
P.S. If you are a woman reading this blog you should probably go take a shower now because of all the dirty things I just did to you with my mind. And despite what you just did to me I still find you beautiful.
3:39 pm
I don't think it's racist to prefer to date someone of a particular race. I think all reasonable adults understand that members of a certain race don't *all* look or act one way. But I can understand when people don't want to date outside of their own race. People of certain races experience the world very differently and it can be hard for outsiders to understand that. Some people's families may not tolerate them dating outside the race. And others may want to preserve customs or traditions that are exclusive to their race or ethnicity.
I think things start to get shady when someone of one race fetishises another race. I've definitely met white guys who will go out with any Asian woman because they think all Asian women are "submissive" or cater to men. I look racially ambiguous and I've been on dates myself where, based on comments, I realize the person sitting across from me just wanted something exotic -- he wasn't there for my personality.
Anyway, things get really tricky when you have the self-loathers who refuse to date within their own race. I had an Asian roommate who refused to date Asian men and didn't have any Asian friends. She just really disliked Asians. I also know some black men who refuse to date black women because they think we're all "difficult" and have "attitudes."
3:41 pm
chris,
There are statistical patterns to interracial dating and marriages. And they don't point to color-blindness within any group.
Yes, there is a tiny percentage of black women who marry Asians. But black men marry asian women at 4x that rate. Are the black women prejudiced against asian men? Are the asian men prejudiced against black women?
Even within the broad category of "Asian", you'll find diverging preferences.
Essentially all of the college educated southwest asian (Indian) women I know marry Indian men. Which is in line with the national statistics. By preferring Indian men, they are necessarily *excluding* blacks and whites and latinos. I don't think that racism or prejudice. Maybe it's narrowing their own opportunities and is self-defeating. But I don't see how it's pernicious.
3:56 pm
Nice entry on an old fave. It kills me how delusional people are when front-page level discrimination hits close enough to home to cast scrutiny on their most personal social choices. And kza's response was predictable as heck.
3:58 pm
Very interesting discussion.
I think that whether a dating preference is "racist" or not depends on the basis for excluding a particular race. Letting physical attraction, or the lack thereof, drive your dating patterns is different than letting stereotypical beliefs about the internal character of people of a particular race drive those patterns.
If you don't or won't date people of a particular race because you're not attracted to their physical characteristics, that's not racism. It's not racist to find or not find black, or white, or Asian, or whatever features attractive or unattractive. Personally, I think it's stupid and don't really understand it, but it's not racism.
But if your exclusion or inclusion of a particular race is based upon stereotypes or prejudices that are not "gene-related," (for lack of a better term) that's when you are moving into racist territory. It's one thing to not date a black man because you are not physically attracted to black men (or at least the ones you've seen). It's something else to not date a black man because you think all black men mistreat women. It's one thing to like Asian women because you like the physical features of Asian women (or at least the ones you have seen). It's something else to only date Asian women because you want someone submissive and think all Asian women are submissive in relationships.
3:59 pm
Yea my boners discriminate. We hate Irish people.
4:28 pm
@kza I discriminate against men who can't hold more than one boner, simultaneously.
4:34 pm
I personally find epicanthic folds to be socially distasteful.
4:40 pm
I meant a lifetime of boners I'm only blessed with the ability to have one at a time. The point is being unattracted to a race isn't racist. Not dating a black guy because you are in the KKK is racist. Little different...
4:43 pm
@kza Understood. Also that would be a good title for an autobiography: "kza: A Lifetime of Boners."
Well it's only Monday and I've already derailed a thread to discuss boners.
4:50 pm
When I get my Sexist Comment Lifetime Achievememt Award I want a boner shaped trophy.
5:07 pm
"Kza: Discriminating Boners and the Chicks Who Make Them Wilt"
An insightful look into the personal prejudices of kza'a boners and at why blondes and the Irish and blonde Irish girls don't get him hard.
Sure to be the best summer read I've had in years!
5:13 pm
Prejudice against my own race. That's not laughable...lolz..
5:21 pm
@kza--you've really never heard of people being prejudiced against their own race?
And the point is not that people cannot be attracted to certain traits or not, it's that the whole idea of not being attracted to "a race" is either racist or nonsensical, given the diversity and variety that exist within races. "I prefer brunettes to blondes" is not racist, and nobody said it was. "I don't date Hispanics" is racist. "I'm going to totally write this person off at the outset of the date before I have any substantive information about him just because he is Asian" is racist. And that guy who decided that the date wasn't going anywhere because he thought his date was white even though she was African-American is just a douche.
5:31 pm
We're talking about people's preferences about a blimd date they're being set up on. Yes I'm sure I could meet a white girl and like her but if you're going to set me up on a date I'd prefer you pick someone I'm likely going to be attracted to.
6:00 pm
Ok. WHY is not dating brunettes different than not dating Latinos.
What if somebody isn't attracted to brunettes or Latinos?
Yes, there are people with general prejudices against certains races. But there are others who simply nit attracted to people of another race. And, yes, that's exactly the same as not liking brunettes.
6:17 pm
Long ago when I was a student taking sociology I was introduced to the Social Distance scale. It was a measure of prejudice. It started out with would you allow XXX people to visit your country, would you allow XXX people to move to your country, would you allow XXX people to work in your place of employment, would you allow XXX people to live in your neighborhood, would you have close personal friend who are XXX and would you allow XXX people into your family. (I skipped a few of the steps. Google it if you want the whole scale). You can fill the XXX in with all kinds of religious, racial, ethnic, and sexual orientation/gender identity categories. Things often break down at the final level. I am often reminded of the Bob Dylan lyric
"I'm liberal to a degree - I want everyone to be free.
But if you think I'm going to let Barry Goldwater
move in next door and marry my daughter
You must be crazy."
But the scale makes it implicit that refusing to allow XXX group into your family is prejudice. A brother should be expected to accept into the family a sisters choice if she married or dated someone of a different race or ethnic group. A parent should be expected to accept a child who is gay or transgender.
I think this stops at your own choice for mate. A straight man or who doesn't want to date a gay man is not being homophobic. A woman who doesn't want to date a FTM transgender is not being transphobic. By the same token, I think people who are not interested in interracial dating are not being racist. I think it would be wrong to not hire someone because they are too short or too fat. But it is perfectly OK to not date someone because of a height or weight.
I once had a therapist who said many times "You can break up with any one at any time for any reason." Even if the reason is "It just doesn't feel right."
6:23 pm
Well put.
6:23 pm
This is an explosive topic. Is there anyone who could not potentially be labeled a racist dater in practice, even if they don't come out and state their preferences aloud?
7:24 pm
You didn't explain at all why this social distance scale stops suddenly at a mate. You just stated that it did an complete contradiction to the revelation behind your exercise. Can anyone explain why the obvious logic of socially discriminating based on race = racism is somehow incorrect in this situation, besides the fact that a lot of people feel comfortable doing it/uncomfortable questioning it (as if it's popularity isn't the very reason that racism is a big deal social issue)?
7:26 pm
And you being "OK" with sexual racial preferences irrelevant to whether it's by definition racist. It can be "OK" and still be racist (not really. It's bad but not as bad as prejudice further along the social distance scale).
7:36 pm
Ok in effort to not be racist I'll change my preferences. I only like blonde hair and pale skin. All races welcome to holler at me.
9:53 pm
drsnacks: I dunno anything about the social distance scale, but some people might be applying the idea that racism is a combination of prejudice and power. Even if they choose not to date a person because of his race, they are not depriving him of something he is legitimately entitled to(sex with them).
12:09 am
@drsnacks
****trigger warning*****
I suppose the case can be made that things don't stop at the mate choice. Here is the Bogardus Social Distance Scale as describe in the Wikipedia
* As close relatives by marriage (score 1.00)
* As my close personal friends (2.00)
* As neighbors on the same street (3.00)
* As co-workers in the same occupation (4.00)
* As citizens in my country (5.00)
* As only visitors in my country (6.00)
* Would exclude from my country (7.00)
I found the original posting to be quite a mess. Amanda Hess used the terms racism, racial discrimination, and racial preferences sort of willy nilly. Of course then she says that is is racial discrimination but it is benign. What does that mean?
I have been discriminated against in many ways regarding dating over the years. There's race (a white person who only wanted to date African Americans), weight (too thin, only wanted to date 'stocky' people), sexual orientation, penis size (average wasn't good enough) and hair color (not a 'ginger'). If I thought back I could probably find more. I don't have any problem with that. They may be forgoing the wonderfulness of having dated me, but that is their choice. And I may grieve a little for the relationship we had in my mind but I got over it. As the saying goes, they just weren't that into me. (In retrospect the things I am angry about are the people who weren't really interested in me but strung me along because they liked the ego gratification of someone wanting them. Until something better came along.)
I've been reading The Sexist for a year or so now, and I am continually reminded of how many male-female differences are grounded in feelings. There was a discussion a while back on whether the blog should mark posts with trigger warnings. This was needed because someone might read a post and feel bad, so readers needed to be alerted to protect their feelings.
I tend to think this is at work here as well. I suspect there is a feeling that you cannot express a racial preference because someone will read it and feel bad. But I think I made it plain people discriminate (or have preferences) on many issues. Such as weight. I feel confident that there would be universal condemnation on this blog of a personal ad that said 'no fatties'. I think that is because someone might feel bad (and maybe go into a shame cycle) after reading that. Again, putting thought and word into other people mouths, I think the reaction would be that people who attractions are governed by weight need to 'grow spiritually' and learn to see the 'inner beauty' of other people because currently they are so 'shallow'. I have always hesitated to post anything about the difference in feeling between women and men. It will really hurt my feelings when I get flagged down (so I have posted a trigger warning at the top.) But it is late and I am a little drunk so I thought I would put it out there.
And don't worry I will get over it.
12:28 am
I knew a girl in college who would only date guitar players. .
8:56 am
I tempted to say "oh dear, those poor white people" in response to an obvious provocation. But such snark would miss the mark by responding to this article which does the same disservice.
Before expressing outrage in a misguided fashion, I would ask for a deeper level of insight (or at least more facts).
What types of people (race regardless) tend to populate the Date Lab database? Better demographic breakdown gives you a glimpse at who's available for that population at large.
What reason(s) do the participants state for going this route. People have all manner of reasons, especially based on age and experience, for acting on/against their bias/preference when it comes to dating their like/opposite.
Dating history of those with/without a preference. It's one thing for someone to say they would never date such and such. It's another to say they've *never* dated such and such. Some people feel a need to make "a statement" in their dating habits, etc.
What's the correlation among income, profession, etc. for those who date outside their race via this specific channel compared to national/regional numbers, online dating, etc. Hard to prove, but I suspect people bring fewer racial hangups in their search among relative equals.
Is/should there be different standards against which we hold a person who only dates within their race (good for non-whites, bad for whites and vice versa) to a different standard than one who only dates outside their race? Does Date Lab actively promote or inhibit this?
Why again for the umpteenth time is this about white people? As much as you all look alike to some, there's diversity among white people as much as there is among any race/ethnicity. The key is your lack of cultural baggage, gender stereotype expectations, etc.
The more interesting thread Amanda misses is how, in a city with active anti-discrimination laws and culture, and a population actively engaged in policy/influence, etc. folks bring great disparity (or consistency) between who they are and what they do in professional life versus what they seek in their personal matters. Why are they not frequenting the spots/settings/people DateLab exposes them to before/after the dates?
One thing in defense of WaPo I'd make is that it (hopefully) gets people to open their eyes, get outside their comfort zone of familiarity, and really embrace the diversity of people and scenes in town. There also seems to be more emphasis on communication, not merely "hanging out". So, not knocking speed/online/whatever dating fad, but with more thought and creativity, this could be a better thing the Post brings to the community.
For people with a preference (*cough* bias), know that the narrower (whups, more focused) your field of vision, you will (maybe) find exactly what you think you want, but will sacrifice many great women/men along the way. The person who fills a need, versus satisfies a want-- yeah, that's a great catch, and once that catch finds out, congratulations on making both yourselves miserable.
We've made racism both so complex to describe anything passes, and yet so facile an excuse it never holds everyone accountable for expressing what they may feel that harms or perceives to harm others.
Overall, no one should have to waste time/energy/ etc. on convincing/shaming/guilting someone who isn't into you. Same token, don't waste time/energy trying to justify/rationalize what is an irrational activity like dating.
Happy Huntings.
10:44 am
I read Date Lab frequently, and I remember that date posted upthread with Neville. Man, he was such a loser! I highly doubt the thin girl with dreads he was talking about would've given him the time of day.
12:16 pm
In all fairness, you don't have to be a racist to just be kind of a douche.
Case in point, the hypothetical "no fatties" personal ad – it's offensive, insulting and crude, but not racist. That's the difference between saying that people with freckles need not apply for your lovin', and saying "no Asian chicks".
2:11 pm
It's fine to have a preference, or hold an ideal of beauty and attractiveness, it's another if you're intolerant and prejudiced. My white boyfriend's "type" is Asian or black, and I'm white. But that's okay because he isn't attracted to me based on my ethnicity.
4:45 pm
@Katz--that's exactly the point. Your boyfriend may have personal preferences for physical attractiveness, but they didn't make him unwilling to get to know you or date you. He didn't use your race to prejudge you and rule you out as a potential dating partner, which is what I think most people who object to Date Labbers using race as a criteria are really objecting to.
@cdog--so true! I suppose one problem that confuses the issue is that I've yet to see a Date Labber who expressed a racial preference or exclusion who wasn't also kind of douche.
8:15 pm
Jesus, when did Leave a Comment turn into Write a Book? Anyway, there's nothing wrong with these preferences. I've always been gaga for lanky, dark-haired dudes (which also happens to include the vast majority of Asian men; so sue me). Nobody "decides" this in adulthood. It's grounded in experiences from very early in life.
10:38 pm
ove the dialogue and various interpretations of "racism" w/ respect to dating.
I agree that a "preference" can be characterized as racism however we all must respect each other's preferences. However a preference is no longer respected as such if driven by negatively-held stereotypes of an entire ethnicity omitted from one's preference(s). The same principle applies to weight, age, hair color, you name it.
Africans in most cases will stay with fellow Africans due to cultural issues and cultural tensions with African-Americans (beleive it or not).
African American (there is a difference from African) and women have a overwhelming loyalty to AA males for obvious reasons however their occasional shortsightedness can skew their judgment in choice of mate. Many will accept ANY black male despite his prospect yet totally shun and dismiss the prospect of a promising male of another ethnicity. Meanwhile an army of women become honery and dejected toward the opposite sex if not life in general, hence the Angry Black Woman Theory. We all know the definition of insanity.
While it is true Indians may tend to gravitate toward their own they only seem to deviate only with respect to whites (IMO a lasting effect of colonization) however some, ala Christopher Dum may categorize it as "snobbery". As rational and sensible as many describe me I'd have to agree w/ Chris on this one!
I have witnessed a lot of white dudes with Asian women lately. Surely this isn't a new phenomenom but it could possibly be due to their apparently easy going nature. From everyone I've polled there is at least anectdotal evidence in my mind to support the assumption. Someday I may discover it for myself.
Persons of all "races" make the ill-fated mistake of rabid loyality resulting in exclusively embracing or shunning someone solely on basis of ethnicity, color, with sometimes devistating results (neglect, emotional and physical abuse, etc) and I have witnessed this in EVERY "race" I mentioned above.
The major exceptions to the observations above seem to education and age (rationalization and realization/maturity). I guess the moral of the story is never rule anything or anyone out especially on the basis of race/color/ethnicity.
Preference or ism. The choice is yours. Hey you never know...
11:28 am
Absolutely ridiculous. You should be ashamed of yourselves for publishing this narrow drivel.
People have preferences. Deal with it.
6:43 pm
As a past date lab participant, I want to vomit every time this beaten to death subject arises. Luckily none of the above mentions my particular article, but I have to chime in. As with any reporting, as I'm sure Ms. Hess knows, the interview process which took about an hour and a half over two days was boiled down to about 45 seconds worth of quotes pieced together to make an 'interesting' story. Most questions are fairly run of the mill to try to get a dialogue going (what did you do before the date? ow did you feel about blah blah blah), but a fair number were very specific and in hindsight an attempt to lead the interviewees toward a particular topic. I recall being told that a certain application question answer was used to set us up, and was asked if I was happy with the looks and race of the date since they thought he would be 'my type' and then the interviewer linked my response to this question to a totally separate one in which she asked me to describe in detail what my date looked like physically 'because she hadn't seen photos yet.' Yes, obviously in retrospect after reading the final product I should have foreseen this, but at the same time it's kind of ridiculous of readers to take these stories as truth and divine prejudice/racism/whatever. Maybe, City Paper, if this is newsworthy, you should create a better date lab type column? Or highlight something actually new and different for a change?
1:04 pm
Is it sexism if, as a heterosexual man, I don't want to date a dude??? Give me a break!
6:13 pm
Matt,
There is more and more evidence the being a homosexual is genetic. This means that you are actually born being attracted to one/both/any gender, etc. Being a man who is attracted to women is inherently part of your identity, down to your DNA. No one is genetically predisposed to not like a specific racial group. Any prejudices about race are gained after society has started molding us. We live in a racist society; put two and two together.
In summary: Being attracted to a certain/any gender = inherently you. Thinking and ENTIRE group of people, regardless of gender, is unattractive based on their race = a prejudice (racism, since it's based on RACE) that you picked up sometime between birth and now.
See?
7:27 pm
When people have talked about "racism" in the past 25 years, they have Bern using it (not inappropriately) as shorthand for cultural chauvinism, color-bias and social distance that accompanied the racism (belief in subspecies/races) problem in the USA.
There is little wrong with this shorthand, as we know damn well what people mean.
There us, however, something troubling about the readers who freak out when something they do is labeled as such. Extreme defensiveness? "Whatever-i-do-could-not-possibly-have-harmful-societal-effects"-itry?
The more i read Amanda Hess, the less i'm like WTF, and the more i'm like "yes, exactly".