The Sexist

The Anti-Porn Position, From Child Porn’s Slippery Slope To Frighteningly Thorough Bestiality

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You've heard from the pro-kink side. Now, in the anti-porn corner: Here's what national anti-smut activists educated the public about on a recent trip to Washington, covering everything from porn addicts who can't make job interviews because they're too busy "surfing" porn to bestiality sites featuring "any animal on Noah’s ark":

"How Addiction Harms the Person," with Mary Anne Layden (above): "I once had a patient that we will call John. He told me that he had a fantasy about a career that would be ideal for him. He spent a significant amount of time preparing himself for this career, training, looking for career opportunities, making contacts and applying for jobs. Then one day he came to the therapy session with the exciting news that he had an appointment for a job interview that was the dream job. This was the big chance that he had worked so hard for. John didn’t go to that appointment because the morning of the interview John could not get himself to stop surfing Internet pornography sites."

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"Pornography Harms Children," with Sharon Cooper: "[Consumers] who first look at adult pornography . . . then begin that slippery slope of searching for adolescent images called ‘barely legal,’ and finally begin to download child pornography.”

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"Pornography Debases Men, Women, and Children," with Gail Dines: "If you go to Gagfactor.com, you’ll see a 20 second clip of a scene with a young woman they call 'Scarlett'. . . The clip opens with ‘Scarlett’ sitting on a toilet, having a penis thrust down her throat, while the man attached to the penis pulls her head back and forward.”

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"The Truth Behind the Fantasy of Porn," with Shelley Lubben: "The last thing I want to do, people, is talk about porn,” insisted Lubben, an anti-pornography activist who lists “ex porn star” among the qualifications on her hot-pink business card. But talk she did: “I have been hit, spit on, penetrated everywhere you can imagine, told to sit still or pose still while every orifice of my body and hands are engaging five to six male performers. I’ve been totally humiliated on the set, where they had to stop the scene when I didn’t even know what was going on, and they had to wipe up feces."

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"Childrens' Easy Access to Hardcore Internet Pornography," with Donna Rice Hughes: "We are indeed facing a national crisis that is every bit as damaging to our citizens and our cultural environment as the oil spill catastrophe is to the environment in the Gulf," says Hughes. Online, children can be exposed to “explicit urination pornography with women being treated as toilets," a "hard-core porn site” featuring “graphic close-ups of homosexual acts," and "men and women engaging in sex acts with any animal on Noah’s ark," all through a faulty Google search.

Comments

  1. #1

    Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!?

  2. #2

    kza: Do you mean the parents that ought to be watching them instead of leaving them to be baby-sat by the internet?

  3. #3

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

    @kza I thought the same thing.

  4. #4

    I grew up with the internet I turned out just fine.

  5. #5

    @Lizard

    When I think of these people in my head they look like Mrs. Lovejoy.

  6. #6

    I guess my exposure to pornography can be considered "atypical". I was sexually abused by a slightly older relative. He would busy himself all day masturbating to porn he found and downloaded from the internet. When he wasn't around, I would look at these images and movies, hoping to gain some perspective on his horrible actions against me. I wanted to know what porn was, and what could be inspiring my abuser.

    I was 11 years old.

    So I looked, and I was horrified by what I found. I found "rape porn" sites. He had downloaded child porn. I found double penetration, women being called horrible names, pissed on. I found "BangBus", a site where women are coerced into vans, have sex, and are then humiliated and kicked to the curb in a strange part of town. In one rape porn segment, after raping a woman and cumming on her vulva, the perpetrator kept repeating, "You liked it, didn't you?"

    At the age of 11... I knew there was a whole industry and movement profiting from depictions of what I had gone through. That men in my family and everywhere else were looking at women and children being hurt, and obtaining pleasure from it. I wasn't just up against a child molester... I was up against the world!

    When I confronted my abuser about this, he said, "But it's just fake. It's staged. It's not real. Don't get so upset about it." Yeah. It's fake... just the way the abuse I experienced at your hands was "fake"? Those screams of pain during anal sex were totally scripted? The faces on those porn performers... who would totally check out and go blank during a particularly intense double penetration?

    How do you know all these people consented, in practical terms? That they had an out and a safe word. That they got only what was agreed upon before the scene started with no "surprises". That there was no economic coercion... and that these performers are doing what they want to do with their lives, not just paying the bills.

    I knew exactly how sexual violence felt... and I knew that, had a camera been rolling, maybe someone would be jacking off to my 12 year old body. To me being tied and having my bodily boundaries violated. To me crying...

    This is the world we live in.

  7. #7

    I think in porn people sign contracts before they start filming sooo I think it's consensual.

  8. #8

    @kza - the contract just means that if you withdraw consent they can sue you for breach of contract.

  9. #9

    If you sign a contract for 2 girls 1 cup pt. 2 you know what you're getting into is what I mean.

  10. #10

    But what if you sign a contract for something described like Happy, Horny Housewives and when you get to work in Aruba BAM! Surprise! It's really 2 girls 1 cup pt. 2 and you don't know anyone or have the jack for a ticket home.

  11. #11

    kza - not sure how old you are, but i grew up with the internet too... but i'm pretty sure it's not the same internet kids are growing up with today.

  12. #12

    I'm pretty certain that porn contracts spell out the acts consent is being given for, just to prevent such a situation, which is clearly a problematic one. However, not being an expert on pornography contract law, I cannot say. You could, if you are truly interested, always go ask a lawyer or a professional in the porn business.

  13. #13

    Until I see filmed footage of the porn performers saying that they freely and fully consent to it, and footage of them signing a contract, I won't stop questioning what I see.

    What about gonzo porn? What about the "low end" stuff? what if, when they ticked off "anal sex" as something they'll consent to do in front of the camera, the male performer interprets "anal sex" as "ram it into her unlubricated rectum until she's bleeding and in pain"?

    Oh, but you shouldn't care about porn performers and their welfare, because they're not people. And if they are, they're stupid for getting into it in the first place and deserve whatever misfortunes they get. We should not empathize or identify with them. We'll totally turn a blind eye to any of the factors that MAY have influenced them to "choose" to do porn (poverty, drug addiction, child sexual abuse, etc).

    Hey... whatever you need to tell yourself to get your dick hard and not feel guilty about it. Wouldn't want to spoil your fun. The fact that these people are being abused in front of a camera should be of no concern to you, nor should it impede your swift orgasm.

    While there are people who get off on pain and humiliating acts, in the BDSM community, there are strict rules and guidelines to how all these acts take place, and under what circumstances. "Mainstream" porn has simply co-opted the painful aspects of that practice without ANY of the important negotiations and rules that ensure the safety and welfare of those involved.

    To simply make a blanket statement that "oh, but they like it" and "they agreed to it" is to ignore what, in some instances, is an ugly reality.

  14. #14

    all depravity and general fucked-up fetishes aside, the main thing that turns me off of porn, as a woman, is that 9 times out of 10, the female partner is really obviously faking it. the fact that guys either can't tell or don't care is really sad to me, as is the fact that porn appears pretty mindless and completely lacking in emotion, to the point where i wonder if the actors even bother to learn each others names before getting into it. this is what people expect real sex to be like?

  15. #15

    "Until I see filmed footage of the porn performers saying that they freely and fully consent to it, and footage of them signing a contract, I won’t stop questioning what I see."

    Well the fact that the girls keep doing film after film kinda tells you something...

    "What about gonzo porn? What about the “low end” stuff? what if, when they ticked off “anal sex” as something they’ll consent to do in front of the camera, the male performer interprets “anal sex” as “ram it into her unlubricated rectum until she’s bleeding and in pain”?"

    Then she doesn't let him? And you realize that all this shit's staged right? The bang bus isn't real. Also, in Harry Potter the actors don't actually fly on broom sticks.

    "Oh, but you shouldn’t care about porn performers and their welfare, because they’re not people. And if they are, they’re stupid for getting into it in the first place and deserve whatever misfortunes they get. We should not empathize or identify with them. We’ll totally turn a blind eye to any of the factors that MAY have influenced them to “choose” to do porn (poverty, drug addiction, child sexual abuse, etc)."

    Why would I care about them. THEY SIGNED UP! I don't care about anyone who signs up for a job and does it. You know people can quit jobs right? You know after you shit you're supposed to wipe your ass right?
    "Hey… whatever you need to tell yourself to get your dick hard and not feel guilty about it. Wouldn’t want to spoil your fun. The fact that these people are being abused in front of a camera should be of no concern to you, nor should it impede your swift orgasm."

    I don't watch fake abuse porn but if I did the fact that they are doing their jobs would not impede my orgasm no. Wal Mart does'nt treat it's employees great either but I'm not walking down the aisle with tears of guilt in my eyes.

    "While there are people who get off on pain and humiliating acts, in the BDSM community, there are strict rules and guidelines to how all these acts take place, and under what circumstances. “Mainstream” porn has simply co-opted the painful aspects of that practice without ANY of the important negotiations and rules that ensure the safety and welfare of those involved."

    Apparently all the legal shit at the begging of every porn movie just isn't enough!

    "To simply make a blanket statement that “oh, but they like it” and “they agreed to it” is to ignore what, in some instances, is an ugly reality."

    I never said they like it.

  16. #16

    @ squirrely girl

    I'm 22 I was watching internet porn when I was about 13. I fail to see how it negatively affected me. It's the same as violent moves or Parental Advisory CDs.

  17. #17

    The fact that the girls keep doing films tells you about their financial situation more than anything else.

    It's hard to fight someone off after they've already penetrated your ass. So, if they decide to randomly get violent in the middle of a sex act, you're fucked in more ways than one.

    The legal shit? At the beginning of EVERY PORN MOVIE. Right. Every single filmed clip of sex acts has those disclaimers? Every one ever made? Does the amateur porn have legal shit, too?

    Yes, you can quit a job. But tell me, how will you pay for food? How will you pay for therapy if your job leaves physical or mental scars? Finding another job after doing porn might not be so easy, especially since people don't think porn performers are on the same level as non-porn performers. But whatever, all porn is ok, there's no "real" abuse ever, and no economic (or other) coercion whatsoever. Don't question anything you see, just dismiss it so you can keep those "tears of guilt" at bay.

    Look at whatever you want, kza. Nobody is stopping you. Keep using products and services that very well might have a human cost, and live without those tears of guilt. I'm obviously in no position to stop you from deriving enjoyment from porn. So enjoy it if you want and let the people who care worry about things like the workers' rights and safety. Carry on.

  18. #18

    Suslin, I do not think you are being fair to kza. I have a history of unwanted sexual contact as a child, some of which was filmed. I am sure that many women and men watch that stuff and enjoy it. However, adult porn and that stuff are not the same thing. So while I understand where your anger is coming from, I do not think you should conflate your abuse with adult porn because they are completely different situations. You did not have a choice, but the people who participate in adult porn overwhelming choose to do so.

  19. #19

    Lol financial reasons, get the fuck out here. That's laughable. Swing a hammer for a living like the rest of us poor folk do.

  20. #20

    Anti-porn activists tend to make their points by citing the most extreme, disgusting styles of porn and citing examples of scenes that are almost certainly unpleasant for the women who act in them. (Possibly the men, too, but the anti-porn people are pretty caught up in the model of men=oppressors, women=victims & never seem to consider that a man might consent under duress or be traumatized by a sex act.) This is a problem, because they're not arguing against *some* kinds of porn -- they're arguing against *all* porn. They portray it as addictive and degrading, then they conflate all porn with violent gonzo porn to do so.

    This kind of slippery slope argument (Adult porn--> barely legal porn --> child porn) isn't convincing without a lot of concrete evidence backing it up. For instance, what percentage of porn shows violent scenarios like a woman being choked on a toilet, compared to the quantity of porn that shows more typical, consensual sex acts like vaginal, anal and oral sex? Without statistics/research on this I would tend to assume it's pretty low. I would also assume that most guys don't look at "woman as toilet" porn, & the like, except out of random curiosity.

    I agree that it's a big problem (& also a personal inconvenience for me) that so much of what's out there suffers from the same flaws: Actresses obviously faking it, gross and same-y beauty standards for women, way too much emphasis on "extreme" physical acts as opposed to hot scenarios and chemistry between the actors. But most of the folks I see making these arguments are pro-sex, pro-kink, pro-porn people, not anti-porn activists. That's why it's hard to respect the latter. The speakers quoted above don't seem to consider that the market could use more ethically made, pro-woman porn. (That one of them seems to compare "homosexual acts" to bestiality doesn't help.)

  21. #21

    I hear you, toysoldier. However, for all the people who "choose" to get into porn, there are plenty who don't. There is testimony from former actresses that talk about the horrible abuses they suffered on set.

    If it's fantasy play? Ok, fine. There's nothing wrong with fantasy. Nobody is policing anybody's imagination. However, when there are films of things that actually happened somewhere, and the line has been so blurred... how do you know if the performer is ok? I don't think it's morally ok to consume material without even questioning what's happening.

    It's hard not to conflate it. When I'd speak out against porn, I'd always get the same old tired, "But they agreed to do it." Well, how do you know? Were you there? Can you see behind the camera and make sure the crew don't all have weapons?
    Pornographers have said, with straight faces, that they sometimes don't disclose everything that will happen. That the performers don't know what they're getting into.

    The fact that there's a possibility that someone is getting hurt turns my stomach and makes me sick. I used to be addicted to porn and some extreme stuff. While I may use porn in the future, I'm interested in increasing regulation of the industry so that there will be better health care, more legal rights/recourse for the performers, and much better working conditions.

    Having a sex act sprung on you on set is like showing up to work in a hazardous environment and being denied any safety equipment. It's not ethical, and unless it was agreed upon, it's sexual assault in front of the camera, plain and simple. I simply don't feel comfortable not knowing if these people are ok, and whether or not I'm witnessing a taped assault.

    Who can argue with more protections and safety for the performers? They're in a vulnerable position, and if they choose to do porn, they should have recourse.

    the same goes for prostitution and drugs. When they're unregulated, violence can run amok. there should be better conditions for sex workers of all stripes.

    And if you're into fantasy play or watching fantasy play, I'd really like to see the performers testify that it's exactly what they're doing.

  22. #22

    @Suslin

    I hear you, toysoldier. However, for all the people who “choose” to get into porn, there are plenty who don’t.

    That's undoubtedly true. Why do you think that anti-porn activists so often fail to make this distinction and, indeed, seem to prefer that this very valid point is never discussed?

    I’d really like to see the performers testify that it’s exactly what they’re doing.

    Uhm, many have, repeatedly, and loudly, and directly to anti-porn activists, yet the anti-porn contingent seem to have no memory of any of this. Why do you think their memory is so selective?

  23. #23

    Do we have proof that all the people that died in Rambo didn't actually die in real life? You weren't there!

  24. #24

    You can disprove death by crime scene investigations and... you know.. the actors and stunt people being seen in public after the movie's release.
    It's easy to rule out a real murder. Consent is a little harder to prove.

  25. #25

    I haven't heard from unnamed thug 18 since that movie. I haven't seem actresses claiming they're raped on films that are sold and distributef either though...

  26. #26

    While it's awful what you went through, Suslin, that doesn't give you any right to condemn what consenting adults do amongst and in front of each other. And seriously, you have a problem with amateur porn too? So people who want to film themselves & their partners/friends together, and maybe get turned on by other people watching their clips are the evil porn oppressors too? Who exactly is the victim if they aren't peddling their stuff to kids? (hint: no one, mind your business)

    There are serious abuses going on in porn--a lot of stuff where the girls barely speak english and look either drugged or completely lost, and it's pretty sick that those exact things are the selling points. BUT, you can find plenty of porn with happy, consenting participants; made by companies founded by people who themselves are in/were in movies. If it's in the US, there's a significant amount of documentation they need to have on all performers to ensure no one is coerced, unwillingly drugged (I add the qualifier since I've seen a movie where the good folks were all toking), or underage. Support your domestic porn producers! Take kink.com for instance--you might (rightfully) find women and men being tied up and whipped distasteful or offensive, but last anyone (word up D. Savage) checked, BDSM is neither anything new nor anything dangerous when done right. If you don't like it, don't watch it, yes?

    You can disprove death by crime scene investigations and… you know.. the actors and stunt people being seen in public after the movie’s release.

    I can't tell if you're too dumb to stop arguing a non-winning point or if you're a troll. Somebody call Bruce Springstein and tell him he needs a new job (in porn?) because Suslin's the fucking boss.

  27. #27

    Keith B, maybe you misunderstood what I'm saying. I'm not condemning ALL porn. I'm making a case that there are times when you simply cannot tell who is consenting, like some cases you just described. I think I misused "amateur" when I meant gonzo, or underground markets.

    If you're into extreme stuff (like some of those Max Hardcore movies) and want simulated "rape", or a fantasy of non consent? Cool. Just include a clip of the actors assuring you that no one is actually being assaulted and that it's all fantasy. It's unsettling not knowing, at least for me. I don't know, maybe others find the thrill of watching what could be a real crime sexy. If they want their illusion intact, they could just skip the testimony from the performers. Everyone wins.

    I'm not saying all porn is bad. I think in one comment I was advocating for more legal protections, health care, and social rights for the porn performers, and more regulation. If they want to make porn? Fine. I'd just prefer it produced in a safe and secure environment.

    Like anything else, there are some people who can handle it, and others who cannot. Alcohol can be a fun thing to experiment with and make for a cool party, or it can turn someone into a raving alcoholic who is abusive and a drunk driver. That's why the sale is regulated. However, porn on the internet produces new problems. Just like most children are not ready to binge drink, children are not ready for all the weird confusing images out there on the internet.

    "Just don't look". "What about the parents?" "It's normal and natural for kids to be interested in sex." Yes, kids are interested in sex. I don't think porn, which is fantasy images (someone's fantasy could be another person's nightmare), is a suitable way for children to learn about sex and develop their own sexuality. What if the children stumble on something they find upsetting, but also arousing? The body is programmed to respond to these things, but how can you expect a child to be able to navigate this confusing terrain? What will the child think about their own sexuality when they're confronted by such material?

    Furthermore, consent is not negotiated or discussed in porn. That's where the problem lies. Just assuming everything is fine on set will not make it so.

    My comments seem to have brought up a whole bunch of backlash. I don't really think a lot of people who enjoy porn are really ready to consider the fact that what they enjoy might be hurting someone.

    whatever, it's all falling on deaf ears, anyway. Abuse survivors take a lot of shit from everyone. From being told "sex is dirty" in school (with no distinction for forced sex) to the onslaught of inappropriate rape comparisons, to being told to shut up about your experiences, to having people say you're "broken" or "whining" to all those fucking incest jokes... and as a kid, I saw a whole industry profiting from depictions of abuse (with no clarification about harm/consent), and the suffering of others packaged as entertainment (complete with taunts like, "Cry for me, slut. you're a dirty whore and I want to see you cry.")

    The fact that I question what I'm seeing because it doesn't look right means I'm "condemning" it. And wanting better conditions for porn performers is a controversial issue, apparently.

  28. #28

    It's Springsteen* btw.

    I saw porn as a kid I'm fine. There's no consent in porn because you know, they're acting. There's backlash because, you know, you're wrong. No one's giving you shit for being an abuse survivior so that's pretty irrelevant. Why don't you leave it up to the people in porn to lobby for better working conditions? They seem to be doin' fine.

  29. #29

    So, pleasure should be illegal because rat studies indicate electrically inducing it in the brain is overkill? That's what I'm getting from this.

  30. #30

    Suslin, you seem to be saying that porn with images of sexual contempt or violence is particularly problematic, because we can't be sure that the actors having sex genuinely consented. But even "vanilla" porn raises the same issues you're talking about here. If the porn consists of nothing but two people having non-violent, non-"extreme," apparently consensual sex, it's still possible that one or both performers are being coerced in some way.

    Especially when you begin to consider larger issues of economic coercion or childhood abuse, then anything might or might not be consensual. We can't tell by what's on screen.

    That said, I think porn with themes of coercion or abuse should be shot so that they include, right at the start of the film, the actors' talking out-of-character about what's going to happen, what the safe word is, and what they're agreeing to do. It would be a better world, imo, if that was standard practice.

  31. #31

    Ok, here's what I'm getting from this:

    Suslin says we should be wary of porn when there's no indication whether or not the people involved are being coerced or outright assaulted, because being coerced into having sex and being assaulted are bad, and we shouldn't support it with money or pageviews.

    What's the argument over, again?

  32. #32

    What's wrong with economic coercion? Isn't the reason I do what I do for a living because I'm being coerced with money? I wouldn't be doing that shit for free...

    "What’s the argument over, again?"

    Someone thinks that sexual assualt happens in porn. Someone else thinks that's bullshit.

  33. #33

    @kza

    so from the age of 13 you've been classically and operantly conditioning yourself with perfect hard bodies, faked orgasms, and violent/coercive sex? no problems there i'm sure :) then again, the person experiencing the desensitization and development of tolerance rarely sees the problem... it's kind of the hallmark of tolerance and desensitization.

    the biggest issue i take with kids (and yes, that's what 13 year olds are) viewing internet porn is that there is seemingly no limit to what they can access and view. thirteen year olds haven't developed preferences yet and will view quite a "range" of porn before they figure out what they like the most. kids brains are wired to seek out materials that constantly one-up what they've seen before. psych research is pretty clear - it doesn't take long to develop "tolerance" and become desensitized to what one sees repeatedly. when what one is seeing is an artificial mocking of sex... well, i (personally) think it's kind of sad and i do believe that SOME people suffer greatly.

  34. #34

    Maybe I'm just super special but I realize the difference between fiction and reality. I would probably agree that a lot of kids don't though. And I've never watched violent porn, I can't really think of a faster way to lose wood as the kids say. Also, a lot of porn doesn't feature perfect bodies, I would imagine that most people are like me and would want to see attainable people on screen.

  35. #35

    @kza

    going purely off of what i've gleaned from your postings (whit, sarcasm, words with more than three syllables), i would tend to agree that you're not "normal"... but in a good way! i guess i'm just used to working with more of the "not good normal" kids... who DO have problems with internet porn. like i've said before, i'm down with porn. i love me some porn. i'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater and i do think it has a place in society... but like a lot of things, i think there needs to be more concern about the extent to which kids are accessing it and under what conditions.

    while i think the issue of whether porn is harmful will continue to be debated, i think people can generally agree that watching porn isn't a "positive" for kids...

    on a related note - i completely agree with emily - i too really dislike that in most hetero-oriented materials the female is SO OBVIOUSLY faking it. i don't know if it's just because i'm a woman or not, but i don't feel like it's that hard to see she's not really "into it." and that's just not hot to me. sorry. i want to see people GETTING OFF! i want to see a REAL look of pleasure. i've often wondered as well if guys either can’t tell or just don’t care.

  36. #36

    Just watch "lesbian" porn. There's less faking there.

  37. #37

    Oh kza, you wag =)

    Honestly, I think amat's the way to go if you want to see people genuinely enjoying themselves--because thay aren't doing it to get big (or much of a) paychecks. The folks aren't all "perfect hard bodies" or w/e squirrely's on about either, which is either really hot or really not depending on how you like it.

  38. #38

    Porn is fake? My world is crumbling!

  39. #39

    Porn is fake? My world is crumbling!

    I hate to break it to you, Sirkowski, but so are Hollywood car chases. :( I know, it hurt me deep, too. I guess this means we should all stop going to the movies, just like we should all stop watching porn. Oh, wait…that's probably not going to happen, is it?

  40. #40

    Well, Hollywood chases might be fake, but that car chase in French Connection was real. They couldn't get permits for speeding along Broadway, so a lot of those were illicit shots. [/nonsequitur]

    Suslin, I'm horrified at what you've endured, and proud of you for making it through. I think it's really important to know that for others, their methods of survival (and even thriving) will be very different from yours. You can't expect everyone to think and feel the way you do. I know many women and a few men who've done or continue to do porn, and they are as intelligent and well adjusted as anyone I know from other industries, and have a lot more leisure time to enjoy.

    If you'd like to remove potential economic coercion from the list of potentialities that might cause someone to be a porn performer, your time might be better spent arguing for a higher minimum wage, equality in pay between men & women and creation of more meaningful jobs. I know I felt coerced when I was doing retail & food service through college and had to report ass early in the morning and peddle mediocre goods to the people who wanted them, but I couldn't have survived if I didn't. It doesn't make me want to abolish retail establishments or sub-par coffee chains, though.

  41. #41

    Anti-porn folks can't account for performers like Belladona, who started out as an actress but now produces and directs her own line of lesbian fetish porn.

    Women are directing, producing and creating in the porn industry. Amature porn and webcam stuff is very popular, self produced with no evidence of coercion.

    Yeah Dr.stuffy pants doesn't like Cumfart Cocktails, but she doesn't have to watch it and the girls who make $1000 to do their first on screen anal know EXACTLY what they are doing. The hold out for more cash and bargain away their sexuality.

    Anybody here let two guys sodomize you at once? Why not? If you work at the mall you don't have to do Double anal, but you can't afford Prada shoes either. girls take the bus to CA....nobody goes to Kansas to abduct farm girls for porn sets.

    /rant

  42. #42

    These videos sort of woke me up. Thanks to all the speakers because I really had no idea -- having nothing against porno in particular and having avoided hardcore porn completely -- watching these videos something just clicked and I connected the dots between the sexism and misogyny in our culture, the way women are treated, and "porn culture." In short this changed my position...I now am thinking that obscenity laws should be enforced on the internet.

  43. #43

    I am a feminist and pro-porn, and I love to support woman-centric porn. There are more women involved in directing and producing porn, and more thought about what women want to watch, and that's fantastic. Jenna Jameson, an articulate, politically involved, enthusiastic participant in porn, is someone I respect a lot.

    That being said, I was horrified when I started talking to women who had been in porn and learned about the FREQUENT abuses on less-than-ethical sets. Women whose boundaries are pushed, or who were placed in frightening situations with no warning, or who were outright raped and lied to. The law only contractually protects a performer who was raped in a different orifice than they agreed to - not one who was sodomized without lubricant, or one who was expecting foreplay and was raped by surprise, or one who only agreed to have vaginal sex with one man and was gang-banged.

    THAT is the point Suslin is trying to make. Not that all porn should be outlawed, but that until there is greater assurance that these abuses aren't happening, you can't assume that the girl crying on camera is a brilliant actress and not an abused woman.

    Not all "actresses" go on to do a second movie. Some others learn the hard way not to trust a certain studio, or to bring along a bodyguard to any unknown set. You can't assume that a woman continuing to work in porn means that horrific abuse has not taken place.

    I personally become distressed if I think that I am watching that kind of film - it doesn't just ruin the mood, it causes horrible flashbacks of abuse. A simple disclaimer filmed AFTER the movie was made, of the actress describing the sex acts involved with a smile on her face, would help me avoid that distress. Why won't porn producers do this? Because every girl that changes her mind on set cuts into their bottom line, if they actually stop filming because of it.

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