Streets Without Harassment
Last year, a friend of mine moved from D.C. to Philadelphia. After a year in Philly, she noticed something odd: "I don't get street harassed. At all. Ever." She writes:
So I've been in Philly close to a year now, and I've noticed something here that I wanted to talk to you about: I don't get street harassed. At all. Ever. I know it does happen here, I've heard stories from lady friends, from dudes with girlfriends, on the news. However, I've walked around a lot of different neighborhoods in shorts, skirts, and tank tops here and no one has ever said anything to me. Like, I've walked down the sidewalk towards a group of men, braced myself for a comment, and then not even gotten a "hello." It is awesome.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with the fact that a) Philly is super affordable and I spend most of my time in relatively safe, middle-class areas and b) I drive a lot more often than I walk or take public transit. But still, in DC you get comments in all neighborhoods, and even when driving I would get guys pulling up next to me in their cars and saying shit. Not here.
Anyway, so I think this might be why you get so much resistance when you write about street harassment. Outside of DC it's uncommon for men on the street to proposition you or touch you. I can see now how someone wouldn't understand how a "compliment" can be threatening—it just doesn't happen in most other cities. Have you heard this from anyone else outside DC? Any idea why?
So: Has anybody else lived in an area that's seemingly devoid of street harassment? Um . . . any vacancies?
Photo via the Library of Congress
12:52 pm
Yes, here and most other places in Europe, ive only seen whats being described happening there in africa and the mideast.
1:01 pm
"Outside of DC it’s uncommon for men on the street to proposition you or touch you. I can see now how someone wouldn’t understand how a “compliment” can be threatening—it just doesn’t happen in most other cities. "
I don't know what's in that South Philly water to make it the case there, but this just isn't true. I wish it was.
1:03 pm
Nope. Not sure I buy the "outside of DC it’s uncommon for men on the street to proposition you or touch you" part. Sounds nice, though. It's happened to me and my friends in central Illinois, and it happens to me in Minneapolis.
1:25 pm
I'm from Seattle originally, and almost never get street-harassed when I go back. In NY it happens all the time.
1:25 pm
Eo, I can't imagine what parts of N. America you hang out in--Amish country maybe? Street harassment happens in cities all of the country, constantly. It's a daily fact of life for many women. But I want to put a good word in for Vancouver BC where I lived for several blissful harassment-free years.
1:26 pm
I lived in Indianapolis for 25 years and it happened fairly frequently. Now I'm in Austin (4 months here)...nothing yet, but there's still time.
1:26 pm
When I visit my family in Nebraska, I often take walks around the 'neighborhood,' if you can call rural farmland that. I have never been harassed, and if I see people walking, they actually often stop and talk to me.
I think that has to do with the fact it's rural, though. I live in El Paso, TX, and I'm often harassed, even when I'm walking on campus. When I've gone to other cities, such as Boston and Baltimore, I've been harassed there, too.
1:27 pm
I live in a major city in Canada, and in my experience is has been uncommon. I've been yelled at a few times (and the comments have sun the spectrum from "my son thinks you are hot" to "bitch"), but no one has ever tried to touch me, and the comments are not the norm. That said, this may be only my personal experience, and may have something to do with the parts of the city in which I spend most of my time, as mentioned in your piece.
1:28 pm
I've lived in several cities in the UK (admittedly, usually in pretty "safe, middle-class" areas) and never really experienced harrassment to that degree. Then again, I'm not exactly conventionally attractive, so...
1:28 pm
I live in Philly and while I do experience street harassment, I'd say it's once a week on average? Maybe even only twice a month?
But, then again, that's my classification of harassment. In certain neighborhoods, you are expected to say hello (or at least smile) at the person you're walking past, so I rarely think twice about an uninvited "hello" from a guy on the street. Even on our notoriously creepy public transit, I'm mostly left alone. I've even found that nicely telling a guy I'm not interested is really effective at getting him to leave me alone.
I spent a week in Portland, OR last winter and was shocked at how safe I felt. I spent the entire week walking everywhere and taking the bus and not ONCE was I approached in any way that would make me uncomfortable. It was so strange that when I arrived in San Fransisco at the end of the week I experienced a street harassment culture shock.
1:30 pm
Having lived in Philly (center city and south Philly) for the previous six years, I can say that street harassment does happen there-- but in my case, it was generally from crazy/homeless people. I got a lot of guys yelling at me to ask if I had a boyfriend/was looking for a date or some "company"-- one man, when I told him no, I was not looking for a boyfriend, offered to "bite that angry p*ssy all night long."
I now live in Savannah, GA, and while people are a bit more...pleasant in the terms they use, I have gotten a lot of attention (I don't wear short skirts/revealing clothing at all...if anything I'm pretty dykey). In a particularly unpleasant incident earlier this week, I was sitting in my window having a cigarette and a middle aged black man shouted up to me that he loved me and had something to tell me, and when would I next be down on the porch so he could talk to me?
I haven't had anyone try to touch me in either city, but I've been trailed by cars, shouted at, catcalled, and had all manners of "love" professed to me everywhere I've been. I used to say that sure, I was flattered, but honestly I'm not. I'd like to be left alone. My girlfriend would appreciate it too.
1:31 pm
When I lived in Kansas City, Missiouri, I got harassed once or twice in the two years I was there. Since moving to smaller urban areas in Louisiana, including, Baton Rouge, I've not encountered it at all.
But then again, in my home town of less than three thousand people I got street harassed as a 12 year-old wearing a denim skirt. So I'd say it takes all kinds.
1:32 pm
I've lived in the Boston area forever, and it's definitely common here. I've noticed, though, that the frequency depends on whether or not I'm driving to work, whether or not I'm with my boyfriend (obviously), or what area I'm in.
I also get VERY panicky when I pass male strangers on the street (when I'm alone or not). I think I've been socialized to expect harassment, so I expect it to happen and brace myself :(
1:36 pm
I live in Philly and I watched a woman get harassed in front of me yesterday as I left work. She walked by a group of men hanging out in front of a news stand while wearing a short dress, and all the men stopped talking and stared at her. Then, as she started to cross the street, one guy started to follow her saying "Come back baby, come back!" It was gross.
1:41 pm
Okay, I just want to write this because of the first comment. I love in Europe and get harassed all the time. All my friends get harassed all the time too. And it doesn't even matter when and where we walk, harassment is gonna happen.
1:45 pm
I grew up in a rural area of the west, and around age 11 I started getting honks and shouts from dudes in trucks on country roads. No place is immune.
1:48 pm
I think it also depends on WHO is not experiencing the harassment. I know that being a curvy woman of colour has made the likelihood of being street harassed WAY higher than my skinnier, whiter friends. For some reason because I have body fat, any clothing I put on can be over-sexualized. I've been harassed when a girl wearing MUCH less clothing walked right before me.
Also, I'm not sure how I feel about implying that being in a "safe, middle class" neighborhood makes one less likely to be subjected to street harassment. In New York I live in Harlem and I have only been catcalled *once* by a construction worker. The others didn't even glance twice. However, when I'm around my work in Midtown...oh the street harassment is BAD.
So in short, I think it is about who you are and where you are in combination. I definitely did get touched a LOT when I lived in DC, however. New York is a welcome change.
1:51 pm
I live in a predominantly Mormon town in Idaho. It's not the kind of place where you'd expect much harassment, but I get harassed frequently. I used to walk everywhere and would get harassed every single time. Now I drive and just 30 minutes ago, a car pulled up next me honking until I turned to look to see the passenger making lewd gestures at me.
I've been catcalled, honked at and followed (in one such instance the harassers followed me into the DMV, waited until I was done and then followed me back to my car. It was very disconcerting). I've had the following yelled at me: slut, bitch, cunt. I dress very conservatively and in the winter I don't even know how they can tell I'm a girl! Yet it still happens.
So rural Idaho not safe from harassment either! The funny thing is, this is such a small town that a hollaback service would work fantastic because it's likely that someone will know the harasser if they see him on the website (and hopefully shame him!) Unfortunately we don't have one for here.
Also like Phira, I get that panicky feeling too! Especially when I'm walking and I can hear cars coming up behind me. I brace myself for the honking to start.
1:53 pm
This article is so full of shit please women get cat calls all the time in Philly especially when it starts to get warm.
1:58 pm
Here in Burlington Vermont I don't find much street harassment - or at least they're not harassing me - but I think that sublimation has more to do with folks not wanting to be "seen" as the kind of guys who do that, rather than a lack of actual desire to do so. Somehow, I just find that more annoying, but nevertheless, I'm glad they don't do it.
1:59 pm
@Wagatwe I second the comment about Harlem! I live there as well, and, to be frank, I prefer the street harassment there over the street harassment elsewhere. A lot of the men that live in Harlem were raised right. I get comments, sure, but they are mostly about how I am beautiful or nice-looking, not vulgar. And the looks are not of appraisal so much as a smile or a nod. I feel safer from negative sexual attention there than I do in a bar in Midtown, where every boy with enough money in his pocket to buy a drink thinks I want to hear how much he'd like it if I go home with him. Upper- and middle-class neighborhoods are no exception and moreover house men with this feeling of entitlement toward everything, including MY body. Harlem FTW!
2:01 pm
I live in the town they filmed Jersey Shore in. There's a few cat callers, even chick holler at me sometimes. I don't mind though.
2:08 pm
It happens in Dallas and Austin. Mainly it's honking and yelling out the windows of passing cars. But in Austin, I have had a man try to pull his car directly in front of me and try to entice me into his car. And both in Dallas and in Austin, I have had a handful of experiences of men walking up to me and saying "smile," and stuff like that. I have spent a lot of time in DC, and in my experience, it happens more frequently in DC, but street harassment definitely exists outside of DC.
2:14 pm
I live in New Mexico and don't get harassed that often-- maybe once or twice a month, mostly catcallers and people on the bus. If I ride my scooter, I get a lot of people who roll the window down in traffic and ask me questions about it, many of whom are really creepy.
What is scary is that I got harassed a lot more when I was around 12 or 13 than I do now. And I've always looked younger than I am. So yeah.
2:36 pm
I grew up in a small town in eastern Ohio, and was street-harassed there through my teen years. I moved to SE Wyoming to go to college, where I was largely left alone, except sometimes in the dorms.
After graduation, I moved to the Denversplat, where I was street harassed multiple times, in all sorts of neighborhoods. When I was hugely pregnant and walking three long blocks between work and where my husband picked me up, a car full of guys actually threw an egg at me that broke all over the back of my coat. I called the police, and the dispatcher sourly took the information I had and informed me that there really wasn't anything they could do since I didn't get the license plate number (in the dark, under the broken street lamp, while trying to figure out if the car full of hollering was related to the impact to my left kidney -- really, I don't know how I missed it).
Now I've been back in SE Wyoming for about seven years, and I haven't really encountered any street harassment, but then again, I'm not often on the street, since I work in town but live out in the county.
2:37 pm
Happens here in Salt Lake City. Not as frequently as in, say, Denver or San Diego, but it still happens. I'm hetero, cis and white, so I imagine I have it easier than some. I've witnessed more random acts of racism/xenophobia/homophobia (towards men and women) than sexual harassment from strangers. Of course, we encounter a lot more casually overt sexism in acquaintances, but that's a different topic.
2:50 pm
I've been living in Amarillo, TX, for the past 8 months, and I haven't personally experienced harassment there, but I do know that it happens. I attended school in Canyon, which is about 10 miles south and significantly smaller, and did experience it there.
Prior to moving out there [and, as of today], I live in east Texas, in a fairly small town that likes to think it's "nice"... and I have experienced more street harassment here than I have anywhere else I have traveled or lived.
3:00 pm
I'm lucky enough to be in a pretty privileged situation where street harassment toward cis-ladies is essentially non-existant, the Castro in San Francisco. Feeling invisible has never felt so good. I can walk alone! At night! Even at 3 am after coming back from a late-night grocery trip to Safeway! And no one EVER talks to me. I fucking love it.
3:01 pm
seems a bit less common in Chicago, but maybe that's because 10 months of year its so cold that you have to wear a ridiculous looking parka in which case NO ONE would cat call...
that, and you're like BARELY outside in the frigidity.
3:13 pm
Honks, shouts, barks, cat calls, offers for a ride, "smile baby"-- in a nice, progressive town in Arkansas. This isn't regional. If there's a place on Earth where grody dudes leave women alone, I've never heard of it.
3:15 pm
Ok. Wait a minute. I wouldn't exactly BRAG about not getting ANY attention from guys.
I mean. Harassment (if you insist on calling it that) happens everywhere.
Maybe guys aren't responding to her because I don't know........
SHE'S NOT ATTRACTIVE !!!!!!
She might wanna rethink her "It's Awesome" statement and take whatever compliment a guy or guys give her.
3:36 pm
4Sure--Street harassment is heightened if you are "conventionally attractive" or if your body is perceived by society as sexualized (WOC or curvy, for example) but trust me...you can be considered "not attractive" by many a person and still be harassed.
I'd like to know where your sense of self esteem is at to consider being cat called, followed, and even screamed at (if you don't respond to statements about your smile/body) to be compliments.
3:45 pm
Holy crap. Yes 4sure, we all need to have men constantly oggle us in order to feel attractive.
I grew up in a town full of pedophiles/crackheads, then moved to a small town where I was then hit on by my uncles and cousins. So no asshat, not every "compliment" is a good one.
Even with all the creepy cousin crap and town of pedophiles during childhood I was still shocked when a truck full of men "complimented" my friend and I by following our car, blocking us, and getting really uncomfortably close. Not only that, shouting "compliments" out of a loudspeaker on the top of their car.
I'm just not the type of girl who wants those compliments 4sure. You can keep them. I'll stick to returning their heartfelt adorations with my middle finger or the bat I now keep in the car.
3:51 pm
I live in DC and I haven't been harassed very much- so her experience in Philly is probably just that- her experience. Then again I tend to ignore everyone around me to a fault, so maybe I just don't notice...
On the other hand when I lived in Lima, Peru the harassment was absolutely horrible. Being able to walk down the street without feeling like a piece of meat and being groped periodically is a serious luxury that I didn't even realize I had before. In Lima they told me it was "just a cultural thing" and they were "appreciating my beauty" ... I say screw them.
One more thing- when I used to play high school sports in a suburban town in MD, men would often slow their cars down to yell at us from the road. It was so disgusting being yelled at like that by people literally old enough to be our grandfathers.
3:51 pm
I've lived in suburban and rural towns. Like some of the others here, I saw more street harassment when I was 11-12 years old (and more conservatively dressed) than now. No one would argue I was "more attractive" in braces and a bob. I suppose that various 20-40-something creeps think pre-teens are more receptive and clueless i.e. vulnerable.
Moving hasn't changed anything; looking like a legal adult has.
3:56 pm
4sure, street harassment is not compliment. This is evident when your lack of response elicits a "Well fuck you anyway, you fat ugly bitch" from the guy who was yelling "Heeeeey sexy!" 10 seconds ago.
3:57 pm
Yazoo, Im not in america
4:01 pm
The worst harassment I ever experienced was in Baltimore, where I was called obscene names, followed in cars, and followed on the street if I didn't respond to a comment. I haven't experienced very much in New York, which I found surprising, actually, and Chicago wasn't bad (although I second the poster who said that the freezing cold might have something to do with it). Minneapolis was surprisingly bad, given that Minnesotans are supposed to be (and often are!) so nice, but I had a guy actually follow me home trying to talk to me. Anchorage, not so bad.
I find DC kind of in the middle, actually. I've had guys say nice things to me, like "You look pretty today"; I smile and say thank you, and we all go one about our business. These guys are usually black and middle-aged. Also, they often comment on my clothes, and not in a sexual way. One guy really liked my blue suede shoes, and another liked a (not remotely provocative) shirtdress. I've also experienced a lot of guys driving past and yelling sexually explicit things out the window, but I haven't had the same amount of scary-people-following-me stuff.
4:14 pm
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's hilarious. Street harrassment only occurring in DC? I guess everyone harassing me in Chicago must be a newbie from DC and doesn't yet realize that's not how we do things around here.
4:20 pm
I almost barfed when some random guy on the street in Charlestown, SC called me "sweetheart".
I will occasionally get comments from men in my current residence of Cambridge, MA. It's usually very friendly at least.
4:35 pm
KitKat, that's interesting because I live in Baltimore and have not had too many issues with that. I will say that Baltimore is very much a "neighborhood" kind of city and behavior is very different in different neighborhoods. That would be very odd in my neighborhood, where most people know each other. Race also definitely plays a factor, unfortunately (more likely to get called out if the caller & the recipient are of the same race).
Meachan, you will definitely get called sweetheart or more likely "Hon" here in Baltimore but it's by men and women alike. I find myself doing that as well after living here 10 years. It's a cultural thing and the further south you get the more prevalent it gets. It can be sexist, sure, but is usually just rote.
4:40 pm
In my research on street harassment, I've found it happens pretty much everywhere, though I personally think it's lower in places w/higher rates of gender equity. But my research shows that if you drive or are often accompanied by others in public you're not going to experience it as much as someone who walks or takes public transportation and often is alone in public. Young women, women of color, and members of the LGBQT community tend to experience it more. So if someone feels there isn't much harassment in their area compared to another, it may be that you're not in public as often or in the same way that you used to be.
4:48 pm
@baltimoregal--actually, my exprience vis-a-vis race was the opposite. Almost all, if not all, the guys who were harassing me were of a different race. But it's true that Baltimore varies a lot by neighborhood, so I can easily imagine that different areas have different kinds of "street culture." And I kind of miss "Hon."
5:01 pm
I've never really experienced it either, though a friend of mine who grew up in DC and another who goes to Vietnam to visit family every year have both said they've had trouble with guys coming up to them on the street. I've only ever rarely been approached by guys when I haven't been trying to project interest, and I've never had anyone be persistent about it when I made it clear I wasn't interested.
I grew up in Northern California (just northeast of SF, from birth to age 17) and I never had a problem with street harassment. I lived in a relatively average middle to lower middle class area, I played outside all the time with my friends, and I walked to school for a long time until I switched schools to a school that was farther away, and I never really had a problem with anyone. The one time it did happen was not on the street but at a water park, when another boy around my age (I was 16) came up to me and said "hey baby" while making mildly suggestive hand gestures, but I rolled my eyes at him and he backed off.
Since then, I've lived in Boston/Cambridge for the last four years for college, and I've never had much of a problem here either. My friends and I got approached once by a couple drunk college guys at a baseball game, but they caught onto our complete lack of interest pretty quickly.
I don't know. Maybe I've been really lucky with where I lived, but I've never had a problem with anyone being persistently harassing. I've never even had to flat out state my disinterest; body language and awkward silence has been enough both times.
5:09 pm
Street harassed for the first time at around 10 years old in a medium-sized suburb of a medium-sized town in Ohio. Several more times in the similar town we moved to a few years later (similar size, same metro), throughout my pre-teen and teenage years. Happened frequently in my small college town. Happened A LOT in Boston in my early/mid twenties, in a pretty upscale neighborhood, but usually from delivery people, construction workers, etc.
I find that it happens more in poorer areas of DC than the really well-heeled parts. I lived on the Hill for 2 years, and walked home from downtown every day, and can't recall a single catcall in that time. People would occasionally catcall or make inappropriate comments from bars and the like, but at least you could walk home/walk the dog/go to the grocery store in peace. Moved to a poorer area, and it happens all the time in the occasional catcall and really frequent "smile" "hey baby" and the like comments, even if you're just walking down a residential street in broad daylight minding your own business. Used to happen to me all the time when I lived in Columbia Heights years ago, too.
5:11 pm
I'm genuinely curious as to what most women would call harassment. I mean it seems clear in the case of catcalling or stalking, etc., but it seems like some women posting here don't like guys saying hello or introducing themselves or complimenting women on something not sexually explicit (like the Philly women), while others don't seem to mind the tamer stuff.
I'd really like to hear when it crosses the line.
5:24 pm
For me, it crosses the line when I feel threatened in any way. I'm totally cool with anyone saying hello or starting a conversation. But if it at some point is about my body or someone walks with me or gets too close to me or is yelling from a distance it crosses the line.
5:40 pm
I'm not offended by a friendly greeting or a non-sexual compliment. Most of the time, I smile or say thanks. But if I don't respond to that greeting or compliment (for whatever reason) and the guy starts calling me a bitch, or following me, then I think we're into harassment territory. Generally, once someone has indicated their lack of interest, you should leave them alone. They are a stranger, and they don't actually owe you a conversation, let alone their phone number.
I also object to sexual comments of any kind coming from a stranger on the street. If you don't even know my name, you probably shouldn't comment on my tits. You're not doing it to be nice, you're doing it because you get a kick out of making me uncomfortable.
5:41 pm
@Jill, You and I had very different experiences of Seattle, then. I spent my first 25 years in Seattle, and experienced much more frightening and violent instances of street harassment than in DC. Mass transit in Seattle was always a favorite place for offenders and I love how much safer I feel on DC public transit. There are certain blocks in Seattle my friends would avoid walking because street harassment was a guarantee.
Street harassment happens in every city. You may find the occasional neighborhood where it is a rarity, or as you get past college age, you may not experience as constant harassment, but it is still happening.
5:46 pm
I went to college in a small town in eastern Washington state, and street harassment from the local high schoolers was fairly frequent. They'd call names, throw things -- the usual stuff, particularly at night and on the weekends, driving by in their cars while we walked from one friend's house to another. There was always a very clear undercurrent of hostility, and it made all of us wary, men and women alike.
After graduation, I moved to Seattle, into a house in the University district with two (male) high school friends and one (female) college friend. We were all walking to the grocery store soon after when a truck full of frattish guys drove by. One of them stuck his head out the window and hollered, "I love you!" And my two male friends were outraged, and my female friend and I were relieved, because it felt so pleasantly impersonal.
Since then, I've learned the fastest way to get catcalled in Seattle is to wait for a bus downtown on 3rd by the McDonald's. Which, sadly, is where all the downtown bus routes converge. Irksome.
6:07 pm
I will just say it's really annoying when you're walking in sync with the garbage truck to catch a bus. I feel like a character in a cheesy movie about the 50s made in the 70s.
7:01 pm
Jesus son: This is just me personally, but I'm fine with normal compliments (i.e. non-sexual ones). I'm fine with someone saying 'hi' or trying to make small talk or whatever. Where I think it crosses a line is if someone is doing that but doesn't back off or becomes hostile when you make it clear that you aren't comfortable with or interested in the conversation.
The other main verbal thing that crosses the line (I think fairly obviously) is sexual comments or gestures from people you don't know, or don't know well. Drunkenly telling me that I have nice legs and you wish my skirt was shorter so you could see my ass, or saying 'hey baby' while miming that you want to grab my boobs, is not okay.
7:48 pm
I live in Seattle, and it's been pretty good to me. When I had a bus stalker I felt comfortable enough on the metro to tell him to fuck off and know someone would step in if things escalated. He didn't come back again. :)
8:05 pm
I've never lived in a place where street harassment hasn't occurred, including getting physically grabbed (Berkeley, CA and San Francisco) followed down the street and harassed in multiple languages(Chicago, IL).
Ironically, however, now that I live in a poor, crime-ridden neighborhood in Oakland harassment is much less common than in other places I've lived. Maybe because most people seem to know one another here. A similar situation to Harlem, perhaps?
8:19 pm
Katie! I'm a central Illinoisan, too.
I've received next to no street harassment in my 24 years, and I'm not sure if it's just the specific area I'm in or the fact that the town where I live is not public transportation or walking-friendly (e.g. I drive much more than I walk).
10:41 pm
Man, I'd like to know what part of Philly she lives in. Possibly on the more nicer outskirts of the county, but I'd be surprised if it were in the urban parts of Philly. It's always a nice surprise when I can walk through Philly by myself without getting any sort of street harassment, but I usually get at least a 3-5 instances anytime I walk somewhere for more than 5 minutes. Now that I've cut my hair really short, I've gotten slightly less, but not as much less as I was expecting.
To Jesus Son: Generally it's things along the lines of "hey, baby" "hel-lo" or "daamn!" while they give me a look over. It's very rarely just a friendly "hello," like something you would say to a friend or family member, but I'd say the line is crossed when they have that tone in their voice that says they're checking me out.
But sometimes I do get genuine compliments. Today a man said "excuse me. No disrespect intended, but you should model. You should really model" and then went on his way. That was nice. But the things that people say to me are generally sexual in nature, and I can't escape it short of leaving the city itself.
11:06 pm
What's up, Snarky's Machine! We're in the same town! I think Burlington has too much of a granola ethos for guys to get away with much street harassment, though I have gotten groped while in bars.
Philly, well, in Philly I got harassed a fair bit. I think it had to do with me being a white girl in a black neighborhood. I'm sure that street harassment changes depending on how the men perceive the women they're harassing, i.e. whether they seem like they belong or are out of place somehow.
2:21 am
I think it's a case of "different strokes for different folks" because some people will complain about harassment in one city, while someone else will say they had no problem living in that city.
The harassment I've faced in DC has been beyond awful. I got it in my hometown in Western New York, but never to the magnitude I have in DC.
A lot of people talk about NYC harassment being bad, but in my few visits there it wasn't that bad. I got the dumb catcalls, but was never stalked, insulted or physically threatened. I never felt scared to walk alone, regardless of the time of day.
Santa Fe, NM was a good experience for me because the week I was there I only remember one truck honking at me and some homeless kid who asked me for money then said he wanted to take me out on a date. Compared to the DC area where it almost happens every day, it was a breath of fresh air to get a temporary reprieve from major harassment.
4:49 am
wow, I don't know what part of Boston Phira lives in, but Boston has little to no street harassment. In fact, I've known women to leave Boston because the men are so far from forward.
NYC, on the other hand, is a city of forward men.
8:25 am
I live in the UK, in London, and it seems pretty bad here wherever you go - it's the product of an attitude that men in general apparently share.
What's bizarre about this thread is the number of people who differentiate between polite/friendly/complimentary/nice harassment and rude/overtly sexual/threatening harassment. It's all part of the same thing - men do not check you out on the street because they consider you a person, they're doing it because that's what women are for. Window dressing for mens' lives.
Whether it's punitive harassment like 'Hey, you stuck up bitch' or sexual in tone like 'Nice tits!' or intrusive like 'Hi, your dress is pretty', men who do this know exactly what the effect is, and exactly how they are reinforcing an atmosphere of threat and an attitude of compliance in women. It's just like the 'smile' phenomenon. A man who becomes hurt and aggressive because his 'Hi there, how are you?' is rebuffed knows exactly how he and his buddies in that country enforce that women's bodies and personal space are not their own, that they can be invaded, threatened and harmed at any time - and disingenuously pretending harassment of any type is a compliment is pointless. It just reinforces what a woman already knows: that women's bodies are public property. Excuse me for not enjoying my daily ladysmackdown.
I've been lucky enough to travel all over the world and there wasn't one country in which I wasn't street harassed - and that was even when I didn't understand what men were saying to me! Different towns/cities in the UK have been pretty much the same because of the same pervasive inequality.
Let's leave this dirtball...Mars, anyone?
9:59 am
I live in WA, so no USian or European (yay for different experiences!)
In Midland, Maylands, Perth and Northbridge I always got/get harrassed all the damn time. Everything from "hey sexy" to people yelling obscenities at me, and once had someone follow me home.
But in Wembley, Glendalough, Osbourne Park, Subi, Crawley, Nedlands it's not happened at all.
Question for you: Mace is illegal to carry here, so I have a small, hand-held can of spray-on deoderaunt in case of attack. Anyone else do that? I also walk with my keys out if I'm alone after dark, which I hear is pretty common.
11:43 am
EmilyBItes--I guess I just have a different take on it. I agree that pretending harassment is a compliment is stupid, but I don't agree that all compliments are harassment. I've lived in places where people routinely greet others they pass on the street, male or female, and it's just sort of part of the culture. Plus, sometimes the random complimenters are women, often asking where I got my shoes, and it has to be possible that men might also randomly compliment women without ulterior motives. I figure that I don't know the guy who just said hi or good morning or awesome shoes, and maybe he really does just talk to strangers a lot.
For me, the proof is in the guy's reaction to being being ignored or rebuffed. If he really was just trying to be polite and I don't answer, then he will just let it go, because that's what you do when you don't feel entitled. If he gets aggressive and angry, then he wasn't trying to be nice, because nice people don't call you a bitch because you didn't say hello.
That said, sexual comments to strangers are not compliments, ever, and I agree with you that the guys who say them do not really mean them that way.
12:35 pm
Let me offer one tiny criticism on the issue of street harassment. It's not so much that I disagree with you, I just think you go a little to far and there are some fine distinctions you don't make:
1. If a guy sticks his head out a car window and yells, "show us your boobs," that guy is a street harasser. He isn't looking for sex or romance, he's just trying to get a laugh out of his friends. That guy is a rude asshole.
2. A guy comes up too you and tries to start a conversation, or tries to flirt with you. That guy is probably looking for romance or sex. That doesn't give the guy a free pass to say or do whatever the hell he wants, but flirting is not on it's own an aggressive or harassing behavior.
Most people understand the difference between the two. Now I realize that sometimes your busy and a random guy starts flirting with you on the train, and it's annoying because you're doing something else. It doesn't make him a bad guy, it's just your not interested. People come up and talk to me when I'm busy and need to get stuff done all the time, it doesn't make them bad people either.
The problem with feminists is they refuse to see the other side of issues. A lot of the people on here who complain about street harassment have the same attitude as the guys who killed Matthew Shepard. They are furious if they ever receive unwanted sexual attention, or what could be sexual attention. If you get angry when people you aren't attracted to flirt with you then you are the one with the problem not the person who is flirting with you.
3:35 pm
Well, aren't we all glad that Michael Hatfield is here to tell all us little ladies what the problem with feminists is? Not wanting to be bothered while going about your business is just like tying a guy to a fence and torturing him to death!
3:35 pm
I live in Nashville. Street harassment has happened to me many times, but it's NOTHING compared to what I had to put up with when I lived in D.C. I don't expect to get yelled at, whistled at or followed when I leave the house, and I was actually having trouble coming up with an example of the kind of harassment that exists. (Somebody wolf whistled at me a couple days ago.) When it does happen, it's not v. threatening, and not graphic/gross like the kind of comments I used to get ("hey look it's the pussy parade," "bitch you ain't got no ass," absurd questions abt whether I had a man or not).
I am not surprised that someone might say she hadn't been harassed in a different city. No one lives in a feminist utopia, so if you've avoided ALL harass-y interactions it's probably by lucky chance, but in most cities the culture & environment isn't anything like D.C.
4:00 pm
To Michael Hatfield:
I don't consider your second example to be harassment. I consider that to be small-talk or flirting, which is sometimes nice, and sometimes annoying. Either way, though, you're correct that it's not in and of itself harassment. However, if I make it clear that I'm uncomfortable with the line of inquiry and he either continues against my wishes or becomes hostile about it, I do consider that to be harassment.
4:42 pm
"However, if I make it clear that I’m uncomfortable with the line of inquiry and he either continues against my wishes or becomes hostile about it, I do consider that to be harassment."
Bingo. That is exactly right it has to be harassment to be sexual harassment. I think the fact that this has to do with sex clouds people's judgment. If we treated sexual harassment the same as any other harassment we would all have a much more reasonable approach to it.
"Well, aren’t we all glad that Michael Hatfield is here to tell all us little ladies what the problem with feminists is? Not wanting to be bothered while going about your business is just like tying a guy to a fence and torturing him to death!"
Well I'm happy your not going around killing people who annoy you, congratulations. Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson felt that any unwanted sexual attention was a violation of their rights, that is the exact same belief that many feminists have.
I'm not an anti-feminist I just believe people need to think carefully about the consequences of their beliefs. If a guy tries to make small talk and you rebuff him he's done nothing wrong, if he keeps trying then he is harassing you.
4:57 pm
In Philly I dealt with more street harassment than I have ever dealt with in my life. In the seven years I lived there I had to put up with everything from "What are you reading? Must be good." (that second part comes after you grunt and continue to read your book) to a man following me carrying a sack of something smelly and demanding quite loudly and profanely to purchase me, at 9:00 PM on a busy Friday night from 2nd street to El Vez on 13th, where I ran inside and hid for almost 45 minutes in the bathroom.
The scary thing was not the harassment. It was the fact that not ONE TIME did someone step in to help me. Not once.
5:59 pm
I moved from Bethesda, MD to a small suburban town outside of Houston. It's taken awhile to figure out why I'm so much happier here, even though the politics and people are so very culturally different. I don't get street harassed. Ever.
I've heard complaints from friends who live on the other side of town, but even those are few and far between. In MD and DC it happened daily and I was afraid - daily.
Thing is, men have approached me to talk and ask me out. But they go away when I decline. They don't attempt to follow me home. They don't yell at me and call me a bitch for declining. They just move on with life. Perhaps I'm just living in a nice area of town?
6:30 pm
"Thing is, men have approached me to talk and ask me out. But they go away when I decline. They don’t attempt to follow me home. They don’t yell at me and call me a bitch for declining. They just move on with life. Perhaps I’m just living in a nice area of town?"
It could easily be a cultural thing, Washington DC is 90% black and they seem to have the most aggressive street harassers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iemfvh6yr8Q
It seems African Americans are just more forward about their sexuality then whites.
12:03 am
...and MH moves from sexist mansplaining to racist generalizations. Not cool.
4:26 am
^^ Sadly, it's totally unsurprising. Eo did the exact same thing on one of the posts about prison rape, and also spends a lot of time talking about the "erasure" of heterosexual men's voice. Funny how these types all subscribe to the same sort of hierarchical value judgments that put straight white guys at the top, eh?
/eyeroll
5:34 am
"…and MH moves from sexist mansplaining to racist generalizations. Not cool."
Wow someone disagrees with you and you call them a racist.
Different cultures have different standards for what is appropriate behavior, how is that racist? What did I say that was sexist? Oh yeah that's right you don't actually justify your accusations you just call other people names.
7:23 am
"It seems African Americans are just more forward about their sexuality then whites."
I've discussed this with black girlfriends starting in college and continuing to the present, and THEY have found that to be the case. My parents concede that in our Latin culture, men call out to women more frequently, too. Maybe I'll get my liberal-woman-of-color-feminist card revoked for agreeing with my loved ones and Michael Hatfield, but whatever. That's been my experience living in urban areas and dealing with harassment--it's been mostly men of color (Latinos, South Asians, African-Americans, Africans). White guys have definitely harassed me and groped me, but they weren't in DC (it was NYC & medium-sized cities in FL).
It can be a matter of proportions of the population: if you have more people of a certain race or ethnicity, there's a greater chance that men of said race/ethnicity will harass you. If more people drive, then it's more likely that jerks will choose automotive harassment as their sexual-harassment option.
RE: women who've expressed anger/confusion about guys harassing them when they're pregnant or wearing a parka: I've been similarly confused by harassment when I'm wearing a full-length winter coat. I've found that if I'm wearing pants/leggings and cover up my hips, booty and full thighs, I don't get harassed. Weird coincidence, but true. If I wear a dress, I'm generally left alone, though I'll sometimes get compliments from men and women.
9:08 am
"I live in a major city in Canada, and in my experience is has been uncommon. I’ve been yelled at a few times (and the comments have sun the spectrum from “my son thinks you are hot” to “bitch”), but no one has ever tried to touch me, and the comments are not the norm."
Same country and experience for me, maybe even same city. It happens once or twice a year, tops, and even then it's not aggressive or particularly rude. And I wear a skirt and heels most of the time.
2:36 pm
I used to live in Toronto, and I got harassed a lot. Probably partly because of the area I lived in, but it got so bad that I was scared to walk home from the subway station.
Then I lived in Peterborough (about 80 000 people, 2 hours east of Toronto), and I'd get harassed there too.
Then I moved to Ottawa, and I don't get harassed.
It's odd.
10:36 pm
Yeah, not sure what part of Philly the friend is living in. I think Philly is pretty well known for harassment in general-- in particular, people yelling from their cars at anyone, male or female.
My new (not so) favorite thing is people driving slowly next to me while I bike and accosting me the whole time. I just started biking and once that happened I realized all my friends who bike are guys, and surprisingly enough, none of them have had this issue or thought to warn me about it. Cree-py. "Put that bike in my trunk. I'll take you home." YEAH.
7:50 am
8 years ago, i moved from Philly (south of South) to DC
Harassment there? Yes. In DC, i've perceived far more and what harassment I've observed often takes to the more severe--same floor, higher ceiling.
Harassments don't all have the same motive. Some people are just being assholes. Some people are actually trying to be pickup artists (of a low class variety). Some think they are supposed to boisterously express sudden extreme attractions. Maybe there are other kinds.
To be harassed, one must be near persons willing to harass.
1:58 pm
I live in Seattle and have used public transit all my life, and have endured quite a bit of harassment. All of my high school friends who lived in the South end like me have had this experience, usually more, though I've talked to women who grew up in the more northern parts and have never really experienced it. Anyway, I've been touched but not really groped per se, but sometimes (mostly on the bus when you're already in close quarters) men would grab my hands or put their hands on my legs while talking to me. The worst experience I've had was waiting for a bus in the University District in the middle of a Saturday, when a guy sat down next to me in the bus shelter and started to make small talk with me. When I stood up to walk away he asked to hug me, and I think I let him, but then he wouldn't let go of me and kissed my neck before I could get him off me and run away. Uggggh.
Anyway, it's gotten to the point where I'm a) pretty rude in public, and b) regard any strange man who tries to interact with me and isn't telling me I dropped my scarf or asking for directions or something as a creep. I wish I could chat up interesting looking hobos like my male friends, but it's just not going to happen.
I also contest the whole "but don't lump in innocent flirts with sexual harassment!" complaint. There are obviously some situations where guys are just being hurtful (i.e. yelling things at you from cars) and situations where they genuinely are trying to get into your pants, but my experience of those situations aren't that different. 95% of men who flirt randomly with girls in public are totally inappropriate, like 30 years older than them or something. Even if they would genuinely like to marry me (yes, I've heard that one) or whatever it's still unwanted sexual attention that makes me less comfortable in public. Besides, there are worlds of difference between someone who wants to talk and someone who's just talking to you because you're sitting 6 inches apart and she can't get away. When I'm flirting with someone, I make eye contact and smile. I've had 20 minute long conversations with guys where I haven't smiled at all or spoken in anything other than a monotone because I don't want to take the risk of getting them mad and I'm just trying to kill time until my stop. Some commenters would probably file that under "just flirting," but the experience is as uncomfortable and threatening to me as a lot of more direct harassment...
Thankfully, I'm 23 now and the harassment has actually dropped off a lot in the past couple years. It's really, really, refreshing. Most of what I get nowadays is guys asking me what I'm reading. (Hint: They're not interested in what I'm reading. One time I told a guy I was reading Mansfield Park and his response was, "Jane Austen, huh? Those books have... a lot of dresses... right?" Then he complained to me about how he hadn't been able to meet any women since moving from Italy until my bus came.)
uh, for demographic purposes, I'm a relatively thin white girl. I'm ok looking but no super model, and I don't regard these incidences as any kind of compliment.
9:43 pm
I live in Edmonton, Alberta, and I get harassed constantly.
3:04 pm
I dress weirdly but modestly most of the time. I've lived in several countries in Europe, Canada and several cities in the US. I've been street harassed in every single one of those places. I've been street harassed in every city I've visited as a tourist. Let me say that again. Every. Single. One. Including Philly.
From the age of thirteen I have been harassed. I have been harassed while wearing a short skirt and heels. I have been harassed while wearing baggy sweatpants and a hoodie. I have been harassed while wearing a winter coat. I have been harassed even though I don't shave my legs or under my arms and I have been harassed when I die. I have been harassed with long hair and with short hair. I was harassed before I developed breasts and after.
I have been harassed while with my parents which was dismissed as something people do in the middle east. I have been harassed with teachers on high school class trips which was dismissed as something people do in Europe. I have been harassed walking down the street in America, which is just something boys do because it's summer. I was harassed in the UK and it was dismissed as something the lower class does. But I've been harassed the most by young, middle to upper class, white men.
I've been harassed by boys of every race, colour, class, religion, and nationality. You know what the common denominator was? They were all men. It's not a city thing, it's not a race thing, it's not a cultural thing. It's a "your body is in public so I feel I have the right to comment on it and put my hands on it" thing.
I'm a cisgendered, ablebodied, white (though I am asked constantly where I'm from and have been mistaken for pretty much every race by people of that race), curvaceous (which is totes a metaphor for being easy doncha know. Skinny girls are out of your league but the ones with an ass will fuck you. Amirite?) conventionally attractive female (but with piercings! and a funny dress!) and you know what: I am not here for your fucking entertainment.
I will add that I am very willing to talk about the way I dress (I go steampunk or goth a lot of the time). I will tell you about the subculture. I get told I look like someone else a lot, and that's totally cool, I would make a great spy. I will chat about just about anything, because I am a friendly person. I will talk about my earrings (all 15 of them) and piercing in general, and I will look at your tattoo, and I will listen to your story about your grandkids, or your dog, or your girlfriend or neighbour or what the hell ever. I love talking to strangers, it's genuinely awesome. I do not love being shouted at, touched inappropriately, told I have "blow job lips", asked for sex, offered money for sex, asked if I am pierced anywhere else. I do not like being whistled at. I do not like being shouted at out of cars (also, dude, Doppler Effect, I can't understand you). I do not want to kiss you. And when I turn you down, politely, I do not like being called a bitch, a dyke, a racist, a classist, etc. etc. It's not because you are XYZ or because I am XYZ, it's because you're an entitled dickhead and I am not your fucking entertainment.
Phew!
And now I feel better, because that's something I've wanted to say for a long time.
3:12 pm
Apparently I have been harassed when I die.
o_O
Whoops. I believe the word I was grasping for was "did"
8:21 am
wow, i live in philly and that is not my experience at all. i get harassed almost daily, in center city, west philly, where ever. it's not as bad in nyc, where people would comment graphically on different parts of my body, but it is still pretty relentless here, and i'm ftm trans, my friend who's cis and pretty femmey says she gets harassed multiple times everyday.
1:19 pm
My experience in DC has been similar to the email-writer's experience in Philly... I've had very few problems with street harassment in the 12+ years that I've lived here. But I grew up outside NYC and then I lived in Cleveland for five years, and street harassment was a huge problem for me in both places. It subsided when I came to DC, for reasons I have yet to figure out (and I've thought about it *a lot*). I have no idea why certain people have trouble in one city but not another; all I can say is to those fortunate women who've found a place where they don't get bothered much...you are very, very lucky!