Sexist Comments of the Week: “Yo, Gorgeous” Edition
When I was an 18-year-old freshman in college, I was running around some side-streets in a hilly neighborhood when a black SUV pulled up next to me. The driver rolled down his window and started a conversation.
"Hey, how are you?" he said. Friendly enough. He was driving slowly to match my running pace. I kept focusing on what I was doing—I was out of breath, kind of busy, and didn't feel like talking—but I responded neighborly out of politeness. "I'm fine. How are you?"
"I'm doing good. So do you live in the neighborhood?" I really wasn't interested in having this conversation. But I looked over at the guy, and he was a cop, in uniform, and I felt like I was required to be extra polite. I informed him that I did live in the neighborhood. I kept a steady pace and he kept the SUV slowly rolling up next to me.
Things quickly got weird.
"You look like you work out a lot," he told me. Arm hanging out the window. SUV slowly trailing me. It was the sort of comment that made me deeply uncomfortable but that I felt I couldn't really argue with. He was big, easily 20 years older than me, in a big car, and a cop. I was 18, new to the District, and inexperienced. So I just kept my eyes on the road, hoping he'd get the hint. He didn't. I tried lose him down a side street and he turned with me. There was no one else around. "Where do you live? I work out, too. Let's work out together. You look great. You really do." And on and on and on.
At no point did I respond like I was interested. I don't hide my emotions well, and it would have been written all over my face that this man was scaring the living shit out of me. I could feel my heart beating out of my chest, my breath thinning, my face flushing with heat. What if he followed me all the way back to my dorm? What if he stopped the car? What if I tired out and couldn't run away? What was I supposed to do—call the cops?
If you're reading this story, you might have some different questions for me: Like, what if you were just overreacting? He didn't say anything explicitly threatening, did he? Why don't you learn how to take a compliment?
Last week, I wrote a post praising Hollaback DC for raising awareness about the problem of street harassment in the District. And one commenter was concerned about what behaviors constitute "harassment" these days. He pointed to a recent post on Hollaback where a woman reported the following incident:
Out of nowhere, I hear “Yo, gorgeous!” and I turn in the direction where it came from. I see these two losers in a red and yellow truck smirking at me. Gross.
The truck pulls up further in traffic, and I catch up to it and snap a photo with my phone. . . . When I told them that they needed to do their jobs and not hit on women, they didn’t care. They continued to smirk and giggle. Passers-by made a comment about me and giggled, and I don’t know if they were laughing at me getting harassed or laughing at me giving the harassers an earful, but I just didn’t care. I felt like these harassers just ruined what was a good afternoon.
Commenter Stewart is skeptical:
I understand that everyone has their limit but one of the recent entries on the HollaBackDC site has me scratching my head. A woman claims her beautiful Spring-like day was “ruined” because a couple of guys in a truck yelled “Yo, Gorgeous” at her and had the temerity to keep looking at her too?
Really? Your day was “ruined” by that? Seriously? No lewd comments, no name calling, no following. “Yo, Gorgeous” is what passes for sexual harassment now? Geesh.
LeftSidePositive counters:
Stewart, I’m glad for you that you’ve clearly never had to be treated like a piece of meat, and that your appearance is not treated like public property to be commented on and stared at by total strangers. How lucky for you that you don’t have your privacy invaded, and how fortunate that you’re insulated from common human empathy.
Stewart replies:
Think what you want but I have plenty of empathy. And I have heard some horror stories about male harassment. In my humble opinion, this isn’t one of them; it’s not even in the same universe. But like I said in my first post, everyone has their limit. I guess the women I know have thicker skins than the woman who wrote this particular piece. Not that that’s right or wrong or good or bad, it just is what it is and reasonable minds can and will disagree.
LeftSidePositive writes:
Stewart––because someone got killed today, would that make it okay for me to punch you in the face?? “It’s not even in the same universe.”
What’s more, there is a LOT of power in being continually reminded by minor slights that add up that you are perceived as less than equal or public property.
And, no, you don’t have a lot of empathy. You think you can brush aside something that was upsetting or frustrating to someone just because you don’t think it was important enough.
Amanda Hess writes:
People do have different limits, triggers, and past life experiences. These things all affect what level and type of harassment they can handle before they speak up about it. Perhaps you weren’t previously aware that some women can feel threatened by something as simple as “Yo, gorgeous” followed by aggressive staring and open laughter. I don’t have trouble understanding this reaction; I experience this all the time. But you were left scratching your head.
Well, the great thing about Holla Back D.C. is that now you know that some women are upset by this, and that they do feel harassed by it. So, instead of denying this woman’s experience by insinuating that she’s too sensitive, why not take this as an opportunity to consider why this behavior might have been perceived as threatening to this woman? Why not consider the ways in which you personally might not fully understand this specific type of threat? Why not ask yourself why your female friends don’t discuss this low-level type of harassment with you? Is it because you would dismiss them as overly sensitive?
About the severity of the harassment: I’ve heard some horror stories about harassment, too … and they usually have much more long-lasting effects than just putting a damper on one day in a person’s life. That doesn’t mean that that one day of stress isn’t significant enough for one woman to talk about her experience on a blog.
Julia writes:
Agreed, having someone yell “hey gorgeous” out their car window doesn’t seem like a big deal. And if it happened to you, you might still not think it was a big deal. But I can’t even count the number of times a stranger has yelled out a comment like that AND THEN FOLLOWED ME. Usually when I am alone, in a big city, often at night. So when you hear “hey gorgeous” you might think, ‘oh a complement’. but when I hear the same line, I think, “oh I hope I don’t get followed home today.” And trust me, it happens on a quasi-regular basis, even after I explicitly tell the man to stop.
Exactly. When I got followed by the cop in the SUV, he didn't start by saying anything half as explicit as "yo, gorgeous!" He eased in, got me talking, and because I responded to him, he refused to let go. So he followed me. In his car. On an empty street. I eventually lost the guy by steering toward a pedestrian-only footpath and running for my life. Every time a guy hollers out a "compliment" to me on the street, I have to weigh whether responding politely is going to get me a new stalker. So don't tell me that I'm overreacting.
As for the woman who responded impolitely to the call of "Yo, gorgeous"—at least someone is taking her concerns seriously. On Hollaback, a commenter suggested that the woman call the name of the company listed on the side of the truck and report the employees. She did, and the company's general manager responded positively to her concerns. "He said that he’s 99.9% sure of who the offenders were by the description I gave, and that 'extreme action' will be taken against them," she writes. "He apologized profusely for their actions."
Photo via _STANGSTA_, Creative Commons Attribution License 2.0
12:16 pm
Don't you think it's funny how the same people who accuse women of overreacting to street harrassement are the same ones who will put the responsibility of rape on women?
On one hand, they're all "He was just trying to be nice, don't you know how to take a compliment?" and on the other hand if something terrible does happen they're all "You shouldn't have been talking to a stranger, what did you expect to happen?"
It's always lose/lose for women.
1:03 pm
A friend of mine told me about the same story, what do they expect by threatening a women that's obviously not interested? Even from an egocentric point of view it's a total waste of time…
1:05 pm
Thank you for bringing attention to this issue! I've been approached by guys with a disarming "Can I ask you a question" which then leads to "How much do you work out?/you look good" blah blah blah etc etc.
Most women I know don't approach men in this fashion, why should the reverse be acceptable? I also no longer respond to questions unless I'm sure it's related to something like directions or the like.
1:20 pm
I am going to go out on a limb and say that...most women don't have a problem with someone giving them a compliment, even just a "Hey, Gorgeous!"
I think the problem is that the people who tend to throw out these "drive by" compliments often are implying and hoping for much more. And let's face it subtext outweighs words in any situation...so it doesn't matter what words they are using...we are reading body language and if that threatens you or makes you uncomfortable...that is not something ANYONE should just have to "get over" or "put up with".
And telling someone to just ignore those feelings tells me just how much you respect them...zero.
1:41 pm
That was such a great suggestion about calling the company and I'm glad that the company responded responsibly. That cop had to have known he was making you uncomfortable. What trained cop can't read facial cues? I don't think men are so stupid as to think that these comments are going to get them a date or a number therefore their intentions must be to harrass. I remember one time I felt like a guy was following me and I had a choice of heading where I was going which would of landed my in a dark motel corridor or turn around and head towards him but be in the light so I turned around and ran as fast as I could right towards him then past him. If he wasn't following me he probably thought I was crazy but better that than becoming a victim. -j
2:01 pm
@Jennifer Ruth: I'm so glad you articuluated that...I mean, it's true. We get criticized for being suspicious of every comment we get from a man on the street (i.e. commenters saying geez, just take a compliment!) but all the advice on how not to get yourself attacked--worded like that on purpose--basically says to stay inside and if you HAVE to go outside, dress like a puritan and speak to no one or you enable your own rape. Where's the win?
2:05 pm
How else do you get a number of a girl walking past you on the street? You won't ever see that woman again in probably.
2:53 pm
kza I don't give out my number to anyone I don't know. If you're at a museum or both jogging, something that shows you share an interest I'd say spark up a conversation if she seems receptive give her your number or email. When a man hits on me without knowing anything about me it's a major turn off; if a guy stopped his car to ask my number I'd be annoyed; if he yells anything out the window while driving by I'm disgusted. I can't speak for all women but just because a guy finds me attractive doesn't mean he should assume it's okay to make a pass at me.
3:00 pm
How do you know who gives out their number and who doesn't?
3:03 pm
I've lived in some of the roughest neighborhoods in nyc. West Harlem, Jamaica, Queens, and all over Brooklyn. I've been holla'd at countless times and very rarely did i feel threatened initially. I don't mean to imply that women should or shouldn't feel any particular way about being holla'd at, but generally i haven't been bothered by it. However, the single scariest moment of my life was when i was SCREAMED at and followed by a cop on a totally empty street in brooklyn. Let me emphasize that the cop was not yelling at me simply to get my attention, this cop was screaming at the top of his lungs to scare me. It wasn't very late at night and i was walking the 10 blocks home from bed-stuy to bushwick. A cop on the passenger side of a 12 person started screaming "I'm gonna f*ck you!" It was a one way street and when i realized they were following me i just turned around and ran. Luckily, i was close enough to my friend's house that i could get inside his place and wait for them to leave. Not to say that it isn't scary when an average person yells at you on the street or says something threatening, but when it's a cop it feels very different. It's SO frightening because you know that if they decided to get out of the car, handcuff you and rape you there would be no legal recourse (at least in nyc, where the cops get away with murder on a regular basis). I sincerely hope that no one ever has to experience police harassment or police violence. We need some SERIOUS reform when it comes to police accountability.
3:19 pm
kza: This thread describes how, for many women, being approached by a stranger on the street is an experience that leaves them feeling vulnerable, objectified, and/or afraid. When you approach someone to ask for her number, you are letting her know that even if she feels that way, it doesn't matter to you; your attempt to get her number is more important to you than how she feels about that attempt. If you think what you want is more important than what she wants, then why?
3:24 pm
Sorry for the double post. for kza and others who might want to see examples of types of approaching strangers that didn't feel threatening, Harriet J at Fugitivus has a thread called "Street Luv" that descibes the good v. the bad. http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/street-luv/
3:42 pm
But how would you know that someone feels? I can't read minds.
3:49 pm
Kaz, since you are very clear that your desire to get woman's number is more important to you than a woman's desire for safety and security, I am going to advise you never to talk to strange women ever, at all. You obviously don't have the social skills to navigate that kind of interaction. If you are a decent human being, you will realize that you have this impairment and just leave women alone in order to avoid inadvertently harassing or frightening them. Please do this as a service to woman-kind. (PS: You can meet new women by having a mutual acquaintance introduce you or when the woman introduces herself to you, but that is it.)
3:51 pm
well put Occam. kza you might want to look at why you are so intent on getting *her* number. Is it about controling the situation?
3:53 pm
I have never approached a woman in the street Jenny. Congrats on being elected as the spokesperson for every woman in the world. I now know that they are all afraid of strangers. Thanks.
4:00 pm
Je: If I'm at a party or bar or something and talk to a girl and we hit it off, I will generally ask for her number if I'm about to leave. It doesn't have anything to do with controlling. I'd much rather have her ask me.
4:07 pm
Kza: "How else do you get a number of a girl walking past you on the street? You won’t ever see that woman again in probably."
Then what are you talking about?
4:07 pm
kza if approaching women on the street is only hypothetical to you, then aren't you making yourself the spokesperson for men who DO talk to women on the street?
Since we've established you are merely arguing hypothetically, there's no need to get so emotionally invested. I assume you are here to learn and not to undermine the women on this thread who have described how they feel. If you're here to learn, then go read Harriet's thread and learn how some men have successfully approached women. Or, you could read the "Schrodinger's Rapist" post on Shapely Prose, which discusses successfully approaching women: http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/
Just so you know, "success" is defined here as "not making a woman feel threatened". I assume you also would want to avoid making someone feel threatened, as all decent human beings would.
4:15 pm
I get why you wouldn't being bothered in the street by someone because it's annoying/lame/objectifies you etc. I don't get the feeling threatened part. If I approach a woman for directions am I threatening?
4:27 pm
kza, you've given no indication that you're doing any work to understand why women might feel threatened. Read the post you're commenting on again: sometimes "Yo, Gorgeous!" turns into something scary pretty quickly. Read other posts on this topic, of which there are many. You have these tools to understand what we are talking about. It's not my responsibility to explain to you what's been written here, and elsewhere, many times.
4:32 pm
If you approach a woman (which I thought you didn't do?) in a way that has a sexual tone, yes it is threatening. Do you have any idea what it is like to be a woman in the world? I started getting honked at and catcalled by men on the street when I was 11. And I was not an early bloomer, by any means, I still looked like a child. For the last 14 years, I have been approached and yelled at on the street ALL THE FUCKING TIME. I am followed by men on foot and in cars. Sometimes men approach me and politely introduce themselves. Then they proceed to harrass me while I ignore them, blink away tears, and pray for the bus to come soon. On more than one occasion a man has introduced himself politely and when I shook his hand, he refused to let go, trying to pull me nearer until I wrenched my hand away. One evening a few weeks ago, I was waiting for a bus, being harassed by a guy who wouldn't leave me alone. I went in a corner shop to get some cash so I could take a cab and ditch the harasser. The clerk at the store started telling me he liked my hair, where did I live, and could he see me sometime. I went back out to the bus stop and the original harasser was gone. But a third guy came up and started telling me what he wanted to to do me. When I ignored him, he tried a couple of other languages. In the space of about 30 minutes, I felt threatend by 3 different guys. SO YES IT IS FUCKING THREATENING WHEN YOU GO UP TO STRANGE WOMEN ON THE STREET. We are subjected to harassment ALL the time. When you approach strange women, you are a creepy creepster until proven otherwise.
4:37 pm
Kza - I'm not a spokeswoman for the world but once I ignored a man on the street that made a pass at me and instead of just going away he followed me. He called me a cunt and threatened to rape me. Nothing happened but it was very frightening. Now, am I supposed to be a mind reader and know which men are gonna do that and which ones aren't?
We are threatened because we don't know sweet fa about you and you could, possibly, turn nasty at any moment. Read the Schrodinger's Rapist post. Try to put yourself in the shoes of women who very likely have had extremely different life experiences to you.
4:40 pm
JenniferRuth, it's always a scary possibility that you could get attacked verbally or physically when you reject one of these guys. It is so terrifying to me.
Kza: This is one example of something women fear when a guy is hitting on them:
http://wcbstv.com/local/woman.beaten.social.2.1553950.html
4:40 pm
I think you need to look up the word hypothetical Jenny...
My point Oc is that there's no way a guy saying "hey gorgeous" can know if a woman is threatened by that. I'm going to assume from what I've read not all woman are.
4:43 pm
I agree that whether or not I'm offended by a man saying, "Yo, gorgeous," depends entirely on the subtext. Does he sound creepy, angry, horny, indulgent, entitled? I'll give him a nasty stare. Does he sound like he's attempting to deliver an honest compliment? I will probably not give him a nasty stare, but I will also not give him my number, because, "Hey gorgeous?" What kind of line is that?
4:47 pm
So I guess your hypothetic point is that a hypothetical guy has the right to sexually harass a hypothetical woman on the basis that some hypothetical women may not mind the harassment. If the hypothetical woman is bothered or threatened or terrified by the harassment, it's not the harasser's fault because he couldn't possibly know that she was one of the women who doesn't like it. It it too much to ask of men that they refrain from harassing anyone because of the possibility it could cause discomfort or harm to some of the harassees. And once again, a man's right to seek sexual gratification is more important than a woman's right to security and a life free of harassment. That's hypothetically really fucked up.
4:48 pm
I would point and laugh, not get offended.
4:49 pm
KZA...if a person that could clearly take you down approached you on the street going "what's up baby boy, what's your number, mmm you look good" and this happened to you on a regular basis...i think you'd be threatened as well.
one time this guy driving was basically stalking a friend and i...it was super creepy, but the friend and i parted ways thinking he drove away. he found my friend, asked her if she wanted a ride, she laughed and said "no thank you" then he said "do you want to suck my dick?"...she managed to run away but that scared the shit out of her and me.
4:50 pm
I didnt say anything about harassing anyone one. You should read better.
4:52 pm
-@lil just wanted to say sorry for that horrific experience. That must of been so scary and I'm glad you made it to your friends. When cops abuse their power it takes harassment to a whole other level. -j
5:45 pm
Kza, Unwanted sexual attention IS harassment.
6:06 pm
So saying "hello" to a girl on the street and then saying nothing more if she gives a negative response is both sexual and harassin? huh?
7:46 pm
kza, merely saying "hello" is not unwanted sexual attention, at least not necessarily.
8:11 pm
Tell that to Jenny.
8:14 pm
I don't think Jenny has ever contended that merely saying "hello" necessarily counts as unwanted sexual attention.
8:48 pm
I said if I ask a woman for directions if I was threatening them. She went off on a rant about sexual harassment.
9:29 pm
Here's the thing Amanda:
Your post actually proves one of my points because the "Yo Gorgeous" incident is truly not in the same universe as what happened to you. I don't think any reasonable person would not consider what happened to you to be improper street harassment. In fact, it was more than harassment - it was stalking.
The point of my original post, which I stand by, is that reasonable minds can and will disagree over whether what happened to "Yo Gorgeous" was the type of street harassment that rose to the level she attributed to it.
You seem to have read a few things into her original story that I did not. She did not say that the "losers" who said "Yo Gorgeous" to her then stared at her aggressively and laughed. In her version of the story, she catches up to the truck with the losers in it and proceeds to berate them - which, by the way, she had every right to do. In response she got "smirks" and "giggles." I don't doubt that part of her response can be attributed to a lack of contrition on the part of the "losers." One poster talked about the fear that a compliment will be followed by the guy following her. Well, this woman apparently followed the harassers - which, again, she had every right to do.
In terms of the questions you posed, I have taken this opportunity to consider why this particular woman considered this particular incident to be so threatening. That's why I posted my comment in the first place. I never suggested or implied that her experience wasn't significant enough to post on a blog. But if she wasn't prepared to have her response questioned in any manner, she should not have blogged about it. I posted a response knowing that what I said was likely to be challenged. I have no problem with that.
Maybe I am clueless, maybe she overreacted. I don't know the answer. But I think it's a discussion that is worth having.
11:05 pm
kza, I think her point was that approaching strange women tends to be threatening, especially when there's any sexual tone to the approach. Why? Because many women are very frequently subjected to street harassment. This high frequency means that whenever a man approaches a strange woman, especially with a sexual tone, odds are very high that he is going to subject her to street harassment. And this in turn means that reasonable women drawing on experience will tend to see pretty much any approach as threatening, at least at first. Of course, these are general trends and rules of thumb, which might not hold true in particular cases (e.g., when there are clues indicating that the man is perfectly innocuous).
None of that would lead to the ridiculous conclusion that merely saying "hello" necessarily counts as unwanted sexual attention. At most it would mean that merely saying "hello" can be seen as threatening by a reasonable woman drawing on experience, given how frequently such an approach culminates in street harassment.
12:14 am
The first part: that would creep me out. Being followed by man who keeps it just this side of the line, practically stalking you during your run, an in position of authority to add that extra dash of intimidation and noone to turn to.
For Hey Gorgeous.... it's all in the tone. It could be a compliment and a friendly laugh, or it could be a threat.
7:45 am
kza, I don't quite get the tone of your posing all these hypotheticals - are you bothered by the fact that you can't approach women on the street, even if you don't and don't want to approach women on the street? Confusing.
Anyway, two things: you don't get to interact with people in society without being in a societal context, so since you live in a society that has issues with harassment, a lot of those issues are automatically going to play a role in some of your social interactions. Personally, I've been yelled at, solicited for sex, asked how much it would cost for me to give someone a blowjob, and grabbed on the street. And a lot of those situations began with a simple "Hi, I have a question for you" type of opener. So when I'm on the street, I usually have my game face on - I harden my expression, throw back my shoulders, and change my gait into a kind of unapproachable swagger. A guy who approaches me on the street is not going to have any luck, and that's both due to harsh former experiences I have had and to the fact that I don't owe it to strange men to be friendly to them. Sorry, but if that's the way I have to perform toughness in public spaces to be able to move autonomously in public spaces, that is what I'll do.
Also, when you ask about how you are supposed to know that you will or won't make a woman uncomfortable by approaching her, it sounds like you would like to know how to do something that involves the risk of rejection, without any chance of rejection. It just doesn't work that way. When you ask a stranger a question, you DON'T know if they will say "yes", "no", or "get the fuck away from me". That is because you can't see into strangers' heads. Either take the risk and learn to deal with rejection, or don't take the risk.
There's no way to guarantee that you will not make someone uncomfortable, and a bunch of women on a blog can't crack the lady code that will let you know how to talk to women on the street. Unfair? Well I think it's pretty unfair that I can't walk down the street with a grin on my face, without getting asked if I'm down to fuck. But that's life.
11:22 am
I think you all should stop posting links to kza. He's obviously not interested in learning anything about how it feels for women to be harassed. He seems like he's trying to instigate stuff.
And as for Stewart, I doubt you'll get it either. A lot of times those "Yo, gorgeous!" and "Hey, baby!" lines escalate into something worse. Men walk around feeling entitled to women, they see women as only objects, nothing more. That's what makes it so easy for them to go from calling you "baby" to calling you a "bitch." The woman in the story featured here was just trying to enjoy her day. She didn't want, nor need, "compliments" from some random men she didn't know. Being reduced to an object by strange men when you're going about your day is no fun.
And weren't those men also on the clock, in a truck with the company's logo on it? Why hasn't the issue of them not valuing their jobs enough come up? There are many people out of work who'll do nothing except represent their jobs and companies with pride, and these imbeciles are clogging up these jobs and not giving a damn.
11:53 am
Are Stewart and kza (and other men who don't "get" sexual harassment) really so privileged that they've never experienced unwanted attention, sexual or otherwise, to the point that it's threatening? Male on male violence is the norm, so I doubt that can be true. Perhaps their privilege just blinds them so they cannot take that the crowd of scary dudes or that creepy guy who won't leave them alone at work and relate it to the experience women have all the time and in an unavoidable way. Stewart and kza - that guy, that street, that club you avoid because you know will be threatening towards you is the normal route to work for many women.
2:22 pm
Why would I be bothered that I can't approach people I don't want to approach? I'm just wondering if I ask someone for the time or something they think I'm going to next ask them "how much it would cost for you to give someone a blowjob". I don't live in a city so I don't see any of this cat calling ever going on. How would I know any of this.
8:09 pm
"I don’t live in a city so I don’t see any of this cat calling ever going on. How would I know any of this."
Cities aren't where all the sexual harassment and cat calling is kept in the world. I live in a very small town. I've been getting cat called since I was 12.
"I have taken this opportunity to consider why this particular woman considered this particular incident to be so threatening. That’s why I posted my comment in the first place."
I don't get Yo, Gorgeous'd. Usually, I get Hey Baby'd. And it is threatening because it isn't the first time. Because I don't know what the guy's response to my nonresponse will be. Because sometimes, he's in a car and I'm on foot. Because sometimes, we're both on foot and I'm 5 ft tall and he's... Not.
As soon as the cat call of Hey Baby happens, I tense up. And it isn't because this one guy in particular is threatening. It is because I don't know if he's threatening or not. It is a hair trigger. The guy who Hey Babys me could think he's the nicest guy in the world. He may think I'm a bitch because I won't answer him back or give him time. But he's not the first one to do it, and he won't be the last. And every time I'm Hey Baby'd, I'm reminded that I can't go anywhere alone without the expectation that I will be. And that? Is threatening. It makes me feel like I'm seen as less of a person. That what I want doesn't matter. I don't want to be Hey Baby'd or asked if I want to ride on some guy's dick. I just want to go about my day. And that, Stewart, is what makes it threatening.
10:34 pm
Kza, a guy could just give a woman *his* phone number and then *leave her alone* if he's innocently looking for a date. Then the woman doesn't have to interact with him again unless she wants to call him. The ball would be passed to her court.
Street harassers force a woman to pay attention to them and she doesn't have the option to end the interaction easily with no pressure. Ignoring the guy might piss him off, responding will only encourage him to keep bothering you. This makes "hey baby/beautiful" threatening. The ball is not passed to her court in this kind of interaction.
In addition, most men yelling "hey baby" from a car aren't looking for a date. They're bullies looking to harass someone with less power. I've gotten honks, "hey baby" and wolf whistles, or "dyke" and "fag" depending on my choice of clothing and it's the same kind of douchebags looking for a power trip.
1:41 am
I'm not defending any of the people that yell hey baby or make other crude remarks. All I'm saying is that I don't get why approaching a woman and not being a creep would make them nervous. Although seeing what some dudes do post-intro gives me an idea why they would get nervous. I think the problem is most giuys, like myself , don't understand that some guys give all men a bad idea. I would never have thought I was making a girl scared by approaching her before I read this post and other cat-calling related ones. I've never been one to do that, or approach a random girl/person, but know I think I would think twice if I ever was to.
5:05 pm
Hallelujah, I think he's learning!
2:14 am
I was in store, a year ago, by myself. A guy a few years younger than me (i was 26 then) started following me around. At first I thought I was over reacting but after 30 minutes I was so nervous I called my husband to come walk me to my car because the stores only cashier said she couldn't leave cashregister and I was afraid he would follow me to my car.
Chances are he was a perfectly nice guy who wanted to give me his number and couldn't get up the nerve, but I felt ittimidated. It's the same with catcalls. Maybe the guy is just trying to flirt and means no harm, maybe he's a creep. 99% of the time men are bigger and stronger than women so IF they mean trouble......
2:29 am
"So, instead of denying this woman’s experience by insinuating that she’s too sensitive, why not take this as an opportunity to consider why this behavior might have been perceived as threatening to this woman?"
Maybe he has done that, and you're just taking this as an opportunity to be passive-aggressive and attempting to undercut his opinion. Why don't you see how this is threatening to men?
If a man can't talk to a woman, can't even approach a woman without being seen as a "threat" based on what he might do, then what does that mean?
Ultimately it comes down to any man who expresses sexual interest or even the desire to communicate with a woman (let's not quite equate the two yet) is a "threat"..especially if they are "bigger and stronger" but of course they don't need to be to be physically intimidating to be a "threat" to a woman.
It comes down to this, Amanada. A woman can declare any man who she doesn't want to deal with to be "a threat" to her, which is a criminal act: menacing. Of course if she *does* want to deal with him, even wants to get intimate with him, he could still be "a threat" to her but she would deal with that risk to get in his pants. Not to mention declare other men to be a threat to her to impress this one guy that she wants to sleep with.
And then we have men who are happy to take women up on this in order to get in THEIR pants.
That's what you women are turning the world into.
2:43 am
...we men can't allow ourselves to be defined by a womans' fears or nightmares not to mention her fantasies anymore than women can allow men to define them that way. We can't allow the fact that you are afraid of what we might do or the fact that we are bigger and taller and have penises and want to have sex with you or even just to talk to you or look at you to let you turn us into criminals simply because we exist or do things that you don't like. It's that simple.
And that is what this entire blog is about. Criminalizing the aspects of contemporary society that women don't like, trying to force men into accepting the opinions of women, regardless of how nonsensical they are, if for no other reason than the fear that they might get physically assaulted or feel mentally harassed. I'm sorry that you feel that way about life, or parts of life. But life sucks that way sometimes, and sometimes you just have to deal with it. We do not get to go through life complaining and whining and accusing everyone of ethical violations or criminal acts simply because they do and say things that make us unhappy or make us feel unloved, disrespected or afraid, directly or indirectly! And I'm *very* sorry that you're 5'4 and 120 pounds and live in a world full of socially and sexually aggressive guys who are over 6' and 200 pounds plus. That's Darwinisim for ya!
Maybe we should make that illegal too?
3:02 am
Honestly I read these messages from women in in this blog and all I can really take away from this is that women are barely able to function in contemporary society when men are involved. They either want to fuck them, they want something from them, or they want nothing to do with them, and all they can do is rationalize their choices. Your rationalizations are complete bullshit. Your actions speak for you just like our actions speak for us.
Of course there's always the "potential" for more, but that's another story. Of course we can always evaluate women based on what they "might" do, but that's just another factor to consider, isn't it.
But when it comes to you women accusing men of crimes based on what we *MIGHT* do, not to mention, what you women think that we might do? This bullshit needs to stop. Now.
Goddamm but you all need to get your overeducated feminine heads out of your sanctified feminine asses for the good of our entire species. And just deal with people head on.
IF YOU CAN DO THAT.
Otherwise we will literally have to dismiss most if not everything that you say. Simply because it's a woman saying it.
11:52 am
@tshirtman. As a man, I don't think cat-calling is necessarily even about getting laid, although the men doing it might want that. It serves a very real social and political purpose in keeping women off-balance. It's also about male bonding (even if the dude is alone).
@je di. I'm not sure that when someone fails to read a woman's disinterest that they are ignorant; it's a kind of sleep-walking where men are acting out on male power and are gaining something from exercising that power. Her fear, or his successfully talking over her disinterest, may actually be a reward. Hope of a future date or relationship is at best a fantastical motivation.
@kza. It seems to me you asked your question a few times, and people tried to give you an explanation, and you say you still don't understand. Maybe you just don't like the answer?
12:31 pm
@Pay2Play. From my experience we already dismiss "most if not everything" women have to say. What are you threatening for?
I'm reading here a few people's experiences with being harassed on the street. Those experiences include fears of being attacked. Based on the numbers, those are rational fears.
When many men first encounter women who are actively addressing the widespread violence and threats of violence against women, the men seem to go into denial and deflect mode: as in "this is not as much a problem as you say it is." and "you are ignoring this other thing." It would be refreshing to hear men in threads like this instead write things like, "i am only beginning to understand this issue."
But, like most of us men, you are confident that they are wrong and that you have the answer. If only they would just listen to you.
7:50 pm
I cannot recommend reading Schrödinger's Rapist enough. It explains this in a relateable and straightforward manner.
If you are approached very often by people who could easily overpower you and who express desire to overpower you, you will be wary of other people who might potentially do the same.
I agree that this is not fair to people who have no desire to rape, grope, beat, or otherwise assault somebody, but the idea is that women are choosing safety over potentially hurting some nice guy's feelings.
12:42 am
Wow, what a comment thread! It took me most of the afternoon but I made it to the end ;) I loved reading the comments written by guys the guys who listened, understood & weren't on 'fight' mode. I have 4 younger brothers. I wish that they understood how much of an impact street harrassment has on women, and how much of an issue it is. I have friends who have had terrifying experiences of it (stalking, threats of murder). Sexual harrassment has changed the way I behave, I am defensive when walking in public, and I get anxious when walking past certain guys, or groups of guys. When I was a teenager, a random guy (similar age) approached me and offered me $10 if I would kiss him - I was shocked/humiliated & I blushed. He walked back to his friends, and they looked at me and laughed. If my 16-year-old brother was in that situation, he wouldn't agree with what his friend had done, but I think he would still laugh.
It upsets me to think that my respectful, kind brothers might treat sexual harrassment so lightly (they also accept almost any joke, even sexist jokes, unless they are completely bad-taste and misogynistic/hateful).
I'm going to start telling my brothers & parents when I get sexually harrassed. If I don't tell them, they won't realise how much it affects me and my friends. My brothers don't know how lucky they are that they get to walk past builders, or anyone else, without their heart-beat rate increasing (and the rambling of their thoughts coming to a stop).
10:57 pm
I am sorry but I am going to have to agree with this part of this man's post. Now let me explain myself before you jump down my throat.
I am a young woman who is going to be past the legal age of drinking alcohol in the US soon. Over the years growing up, I have had my skirt lifted by boys, by middle schoolers at age 6. I have had my rearend grabbed and rubbed, smacked, squeezed by strange boys growing up. This made me cautious of the men and boys surrounding me.
When you think "omg omg he's got the possibility of raping me or causing me some kind of harm because he has a penis!" constantly,or even more than you should when walking on the street: it's a problem.
You can't just walk around in fear, you can't live in fear. You are capable of being raped or sexually harassed by women too. It's possible that the same gender might find you attractive and start behaving like a street-stalker towards you because of your appearance. Should you fear your own gender too? Or better yet why do you trust your own gender more than a man? A strange woman offered me a ride and I declined because she was a stranger.
I just don't trust many people, so I would like to believe that I am aware anyone, regardless of gender, could approach me inappropriately.
I know it feels like sometimes its your fault..well at least that's how it was for me. But to cast others in the same light as the offenders,even in the slightest seems rather bigoted regardless of what happened to you in the past, present, or future. How I feel about this is, not every individual poses as a threat, even if they make a cat call. As long as they are not following me, talking about what's underneath my clothes, I really am not outraged. What I have always been hurt and upset over was the actual unwanted touching, an older man trying to get me into his rape truck when I was 14, the lewd comments about my genitalia,amongst many other things. I wish that was all a guy ever did to me was just approach me and ask for my number.
I am not trying to make light of any situations you ladies have been in, but I am saying this: please do not walk in fear. It does a disservice to the men who actually respect you and it does a disservice to yourself to stress your mind over what assholes do. I'm just tired of bastards trying to take my power away by giving me unwanted physical attention more than verbal attention.