The Sexist Outcry Over Snookie Getting Punched In the Face
MTV reality sensation Jersey Shore (the Real Word, but with guidos), is only two episodes in, but it's already infamous for a moment that hasn't yet aired. Next week, Snookie, one of the show's self-described "guidettes," will get punched in the face by a man in a bar. Judging by the show's trailer, Jersey Shore is positively built upon its cast members getting into drunken bar fights. So why do we only care about one woman's hit to the face?
The punch, which MTV previewed in a trailer for the upcoming season, has inspired both excitement and disdain from commentators. One Web site delighted over an image of Snookie getting punched over and over again, calling it "the most gratifying animated gif you will ever see"; Jezebel, which framed Snookie's punch as an incident of violence against women, called the "the clip and commentary chilling."
This week, MTV responded to the concern. According to NY Daily News, next week's Snookie-punching episode will be a Very Special Episode of Jersey Shore:
MTV will air a public service announcement after next week's episode of the controversial series "Jersey Shore" because it includes an incident of violence against a woman.
. . . The PSA, set to air following the Dec. 17 episode, reads: "Violence against women in any form is a crime. If you or someone you know is being abused by a boyfriend, family member or total stranger, please call 911 or log on to www.loveisrespect.org for information and help. You can also call The National Teen Dating Abuse Helpline at 1-866-331-9474 for immediate support."
Violence against women is a crime. Then again, violence against anyone is a crime. And in the two-minute preview for Jersey Shore, we see a lot of violence against everybody:
Ronnie forcefully pushing Sammy on the boardwalk:
A woman grabbing a man's neck to force his face into her breasts:
Several brawls:
JWow throwing punches at Mike:
And of course, Snookie getting punched:
The violence on Jersey Shore started early. In the first episode, Pauly punches a stranger in the face in a bar, citing the fact that the stranger had been "looking at him." Later, Pauly gleefully tells the camera that he knows the exact amount of pressure it takes to break a nose. So why do we only care about Snookie getting punched? I have a few theories:
a) Snookie is one of the most obnoxious television characters ever. No character is particularly charming on this show, but Snookie is the worst. In the two hours I have observed Snookie, she has a) passed out within hours of arriving at the Real World house; b) complained about not being the center of attention while MTV cameras were filming her for a reality show about her life; c) vomited in the sink instead of showing up to her first day of work; and d) threatened to go home after two days because she thought everyone was talking about her behind her back.
Viewers hate Snookie enough to get excited about seeing her hit in the face. They only dislike the other characters enough to not give a shit one way or another when they get pounded.
b) Snookie is more annoying because she is a woman. Let's face it: There are plenty of gender-neutral things to hate about Snookie. Still, some viewers hate Snookie more because she's a guidette. Check out this helpful comment:
Well chicks want equal everything, so here ya go Snookie. Equal being what it is when guys talk a bunch of shit they have to back it up or get knocked the fuck out.
Welcome to being equal Snookie. I'm guessing I won't see you lined up to collect any combat pay anytime soon.
Snookie does a lot of things in the first two episodes—she twirls her hair despondently, gets naked in the hot tub, becomes confused at a telephone in the shape of a duck, calls her dad, and misses her first day of work. What she doesn't do is go off on some sort of feminist tirade about women being equal to men. Positioning Snookie as a women's libber who got what she deserved is completely off-point. It's also pretty sexist.
c) Punching a woman in the face is more taboo than punching a man. Did you see how many people got victimized by violence in that trailer? Like every character, practically! So why does only Snookie get the PSA treatment? A couple of the incidents showcased in the trailer could be seen as legitimate examples of domestic abuse (Ronnie pushing Sammy; JWow going after Mike). After all, these people do live together and have relationships with one another.
Snookie getting punched, on the other hand, is not a particularly gendered form of violence. The guy in the bar wasn't her boyfriend or family member who trades off between affection and abuse. Furthermore, Snookie's punch in the face was an entirely public act—domestic violence against women is so problematic because it is hushed up, excused, covered with a coat of foundation and a tale of "falling down the stairs." Snookie was punched in the face by a drunk guy in a bar, a type of violence which is far more likely to target a guido than a guidette.
Was it right to punch Snookie in the face? Of course not. Was it a necessary side-effect of women's liberation? Hell no. But as long as we're talking equality, how about we start giving a shit about women punching women, men punching men, and women punching men, too?
11:16 am
It's a show about sluts and closeted and confused gay men, how boring.
12:43 pm
This blog post has an even-handed tone about it, recognizing that violence is unacceptable when inflicted upon anyone, not just women. I like it for that. But I think that you could have gone a bit further. Physical aggression is only one side of the coin; emotional aggression is just as relevant. I am not saying that it is morally excusable (or even practically useful) to impose physical aggression as retaliation for emotional aggression. But to sit back in analysis mode and dogmatically separate the way the two are entwined is to ignore the dynamic of aggression itself.
We confront and challenge physical aggressors especially when their abuses are committed against relatively weaker victims; the victim cannot effectively fight back and it's thus not a "fair fight." We also confront physical aggressors regardless of perceived "fairness," because we seek a generally more peaceful society. We even confront emotional aggressors when it is a male aggressing on a female, because the man's physical stature reinforces his emotional aggression, whereas that is not necessarily true of his female victim.
But do we confront emotionally aggressive females? If a man is expected to hold his tongue lest he put a woman in fear of physical reprisals, and if he is expected to reign in physical aggression too, then the result is a total lack of boundaries for female-imposed emotional aggression. A woman's facade of weakness is her biggest advantage; a man's facade of strength is his biggest disadvantage. This dynamic gives women a pass to engage in destructive behaviors.
In our ivory towers we can claim that there is "no excuse for abuse, under any circumstances." But when we excuse female emotional aggression, calling it harmless, aren't we really doing a disservice to women in general, jeopardizing their safety?
1:29 pm
"In our ivory towers we can claim that there is “no excuse for abuse, under any circumstances.” But when we excuse female emotional aggression, calling it harmless, aren’t we really doing a disservice to women in general, jeopardizing their safety?"
Who's excusing emotional aggression? That's bad too?
"But do we confront emotionally aggressive females? If a man is expected to hold his tongue lest he put a woman in fear of physical reprisals, and if he is expected to reign in physical aggression too, then the result is a total lack of boundaries for female-imposed emotional aggression. But do we confront emotionally aggressive females? If a man is expected to hold his tongue lest he put a woman in fear of physical reprisals, and if he is expected to reign in physical aggression too, then the result is a total lack of boundaries for female-imposed emotional aggression."
This is where you mess up and show your real hand. Where is anyone in anyway contending that non-violent emotional or verbal reactions by men are illegitimate? They aren't in fact. I think the implication of the post is actually precisely the opposite or exactly what you want it too.
Maybe you meant something different, but when you write "if he is expected to reign in physical aggression too, then the result is a total lack of boundaries for female-imposed emotional aggression" it states that the only check on female emotional aggression is male physical aggression. In context, you might mean just that male aggression generally, even when non-violent, is perceived as physically menacing, but this does not really explain how we are excusing female emotional aggression.
2:14 pm
Well written, and a good point: we don't approach violence against women wrong, we approach violence in relationships wrong. In fact, I would say we tend to approach relationships in general in all the wrong ways. If your relationship is based upon or necessitates physical or psychological violence of any kind, THIS IS NOT A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP (though, try to explain that to the girls that are all OMG EDWARD CULLEN).
There's a pretty pitiful lack of examples of healthy relationships in television and media, though, maybe because they're not as exciting as people who beat each other around or treat each other like crap. Still, we consume it, and thus we support it. So when we're bemoaning another story of anothing abusive teen relationship we need to look in the mirror--this is a cultural problem that is totally self-created. To change it, we're going to need a lot of education and a lot of awareness, and to entirely change our attitudes.
2:18 pm
Unfortunately, I understand what John is trying to say. Generally, there is an unfair pass given to women when they are abusive, whether it is verbal or physical abuse. If you notice, no one is speaking about how Tiger's wife came at him with a golf club (broke out the window to get Tiger out of the car my ass), and no one really went into details of how Rihanna was physically abusive to Chris Brown. But we all know how skeevy Tiger is for sleeping around, and we saw pictures of the aftermath of Chris's loss of control. Is that fair? Not really. I have been complaining about this unfairness for a while now (I'm a woman). That is how you get comments like the guy talking about the equality thing. Wasn't it classy the way he worded it?
In this situation, though, it is not the case where the woman is being the aggressor and being abusive. The guy who punched Snookie was drunk to point that the bartender cut him off, so he took Snookie's drink. When she made a fuss, he hit her. There's no wiggle room with this situation, no matter how you feel about Snookie personally. I don't have any feelings for this woman since I have never (and won't) watched the show, so my view on this is pretty objective.
2:41 pm
In any other situation than it being a woman being punched in the face, it was a relatively expected outcome to the situation. not Mike "the situation", but the confrontation of having one person continuously pop his/her mouth off to another person usually ends in someone getting a knuckle sandwich. i would consider the guy who hit snookie as somewhat of a Byronic-hero, or anti-hero, in that he gives us all what we wanted to do, but suffers the consequences of taking action, much akin to Batman claiming responsibility to killing Harvey Dent at the end of The Dark Knight.. Considering Christian Bale's own major issues with anger and assaulting women, i felt it served as a corollary to the subject at hand.... the bottom line is justice will be served, snookie learned her lesson, and we all had a good hard laugh
2:47 pm
I've nitpicked in other comments, so it would be pretty disingenuous of me not to point out that this post was spot-on. Well-reasoned, even-keeled, rational: bravo.
3:02 pm
So how many of these douchebags have been arrested for assault. MTV has the evidence, where is the local prosecutor?
3:06 pm
To be honest, i went to college with J Wow's BF, and hes my height, about 5'8"... Ronnie is the "biggest" guy on the show and hes shorter than the kid i went to school with... the fact is these dudes are so cut because they can afford to not work all day and drink 12 dollar shakes, but i guarantee none of those guys have ever gotten really hit hard in the face, when pauly hit that kid at the bar it was like a half cocked noodle armed pot shot, not a rage-filled hate-punch most real dudes utilize when in a fight.. none of these jokers will be arrested for assault because they cant really harm anyone
3:20 pm
Amanda, I think maybe your article tried to get to this point, but you really only danced around it. No, no one deserves a punch to the face like that. But if it had been a guy saying the exact same things to another guy, this would not have been news, and many people would say, "Yeah, that jerk deserved to get punched for saying that." But just because she's a "poor, defenseless" (if insulting) woman, she's different? Nuh uh. I don't buy it.
Explanation YOUR sexism, please.
4:08 pm
Simon, read the article before you critique. Amanda said exactly what you just said (albeit more eloquently and without an unjustified attack) and no one has called Snookie poor or defenseless (in fact, I believe "obnoxious" was the mot de jour).
4:49 pm
Last season on Cheaters, I saw a guy punch his girlfriend. Busted her nose. And he ran when the cops were called. Where's the outrage in that?
4:51 pm
OMG im sure half of oour home town has been waiting to see that bitch get punched.shes an embarrasment to marlboro,ny.
1:34 am
wow. of course violence is not the answer to any situation, but i don't understand why people don't get why this particular one makes a difference. even if "snookie" is the most obnoxious girl in the world, you are NOT supposed to hit a girl if you are a guy. If it were two girls, it would make more sense because they are evenly matched and she may be more prepared to duke it out. But if you are a girl, you don't really expect to be punched in the face like that by a guy twice your size, which is probably why she kept running her mouth.
1:55 am
any man that hits a woman is coward.
9:18 am
Ah more double standards. Women want to be counted amongst the men but dont want to be held to the same standards. There are regulation mechanisms in male society. Generally, you act like Snookie did and someone cracks you in the dome. So if we promote the 'equality' but give women a pass, we create irresponsible members of a system. Eventually, as this show illustrates, the society degrades quickly. Feminists, you CAN'T have it all. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The promise of feminism is a fantasy, you're really tools of the elite and your primary purpose is to break down society, not liberate as you are told.
8:24 pm
Mikey-- RTFP
8:55 pm
mtm7b2 wrote:
What do you propose should be the reaction by a man to such a woman? Should he sulk away, beaten? If non-violence (my preference), then what?
Verbally and emotionally abusive women need to be challenged, in my opinion. The only question is how, and whether anyone has the guts to stand up to them. For a man this is difficult, because his manhood will inevitably be called into question merely for standing up for himself (i.e. he'll be called a bully for getting into her face in a war of words). But he'll also be called a wimp if he doesn't stand his ground. So what do you propose that he do in that situation (especially if the hypothetical does not involve him having wronged her, unlike the man in the above clip, who stole her drink)?
9:15 pm
John- I already responded to your first post, for which you second is non-responsive. I'll respond again.
"What do you propose should be the reaction by a man to such a woman? Should he sulk away, beaten? If non-violence (my preference), then what?"
Again I think you accidentally show your real hand behind what sounds like a legitimate response. Why is non-violence just your preference instead of the actual only good and legitimate response. The "then what" part of your question implies that these evil emotionally abusive women can be so abusive and unresponsive to non-violent that the only way to stand up to the them is through violence?
This is ridiculous and plainly wrong. There is no reason that standing up to the emotionally abusive woman in a non-violent way is somehow illegitimate. IF in the case that non-violence does not work, then its a really terrible situation. On the practical level that you seem to be working on, its likely counterproductive because physical violence would probably make an emotionally abusive woman even more abusive not less.
10:53 pm
I tuned into this worthless show to see, and I was right with my comment on the top of this blog. I'm sure that all of them will grow-up to be productive members of our society, making license plats in jail.
1:25 am
@Richard:
Because violence by a man against a woman can be either necessary or justified, depending on the situation. Self defense might be one example, especially if the aggressor is using a weapon. Or defense of another who is being attacked by a woman. There are certain scenarios where violence by men against women is -- depending on the circumstances -- acceptable.
I say what I mean and I mean what I say. But you, on the other hand, have made veiled accusations about my motives without spelling them out explicitly. It is for this reason that I elected not to respond to your initial post.
In your opinion. Also, in my opinion too. Unfortunately that's not always reflective of the reaction that men get when they verbally confront a verbally abusive woman. What happens in real life is that people start crowding around and acting like he's bullying her. "Pick on someone your own size, dude!" is a common charge. Then there are the "Sir Lancelots" who feel that it is their duty to step up and defend the particular woman's honor, often on the pretext that her safety is in jeopardy (whether or not it is).
A verbally abusive woman can easily take advantage of these social realities; she can quickly transform, quite easily in fact, from emotional aggressor to helpless damsel and the result is that any man who was the target of her abuse will then be portrayed as the aggressor himself. If you don't acknowledge this or think that it's not consequential, that's your prerogative, but in that case suffice it to say that we would be coming at this discussion from fundamentally different assumptions about the society and culture that we live in.
2:57 am
This is very well written and well said. Violence of any type is inexcusable. Also She wouldn't talk that kind of shit to another female and not expect to get knocked out.
10:38 am
I find it quite amusing that nobody on this site has commented on the hypocrisy of MTV. Banning music videos that mention handguns, bleeping out the word suicide, yet somehow it is okay to show a video series on the disgraceful behavior of an obviously self involved sub culture, including violence of any type.
Long ago MTV moved away from what made it what it is today and moved to a political, hypocritical, TV network which is like all networks interested only in profits. One big difference with MTV is that they somehow think that if they toss in a couple of political statements now and then that this makes them somehow better than the rest of the world.
MTV has done more for the collapse of the morals of our youth than any other factor with parents coming in as a close second.
You all should read a little on the rise and fall of the Roman empire and see how close our country is to the same state of economic, and moral collapse as Rome was prior to their collapse.
12:18 pm
This is why people shouldnt pop shit, male or female if there not prepared for the repercussions. I know my comments not politically correct, but seriously if a dude got rowdy on a chick he'd be smacked, punched, or "assulted". Maybe this skank will keep her BIG mouth shut next time. That dude who cocked her is my hero!
1:29 pm
The show is straight up trash.
3:24 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fs8vLOEiCs
6:05 pm
Wow, Amanda. I'm usually on board with you 100% but I am absolutely shocked by your treatment of this issue. How can you possibly argue that any woman being physically assaulted by a man is "not a particularly gendered form of violence," as if this sort of violence exists in some sort of cultural vacuum? There are structures of power and privilege that exist, and every act of violence is taking place in the context of these structures.
A man hitting a man is a terrible act of violence that is illegal and immoral. But a man hitting a woman (despite the scenario) is an act designed to establish and enforce male dominance through terror. They are superficially similar acts that have very different roots and implications.
It saddens me, Amanda, seriously because I f-ing love this blog, that you would even suggest that "we," "start giving a shit about women punching women, men punching men, and women punching men, too?" Who is the we? Women? I can't even muster a response to most of the overtly misogynistic comments. Really sad.
8:12 pm
"But a man hitting a woman (despite the scenario) is an act designed to establish and enforce male dominance through terror."
I think this actually misses the point that this violence actually is individualized. If a man hits another man, isn't he also trying to establish his dominance over another man? Similarly, on an individual level a man hitting a woman would be establishing his individual authority over that woman.
What I would argue that you are missing if you are conflating the individual with the systematic act. On a systematic level, physical violence one mechanisms that tends to enforce patriarchy. The historical difference you refer to is the inequality generally that perpetuates and makes this violence especially bad.
The problem is that in an individual case (which you say "despite the scenario" to) you could face a situation where the individual level of domination being exerted by male to male violence or male to female violence is equal. (If I have to make up a scenario I will, but I feel like that always ends in parsing individual scenario's rather than real discussion._
11:19 pm
'Amy' you're psycho babble bull shit is one for the books. The act of violence itself is bad enought but this crap that you are trying to sell everyone about dominance, go try and sell this Romper Room theroy to someone who's as stupid as you are, because no one is buying here!
You want a misogynistic comment, go in the kitchen where you belong, now that's misogynistic!
2:56 am
"Because violence by a man against a woman can be either necessary or justified, depending on the situation. Self defense might be one example, especially if the aggressor is using a weapon."
I think this is where the confusion is. Amanda is saying that your right, yet you are criticizing her post? It does not make sense, so I think on some level we are trying to figure out how you are disagreeing with her and are assuming that somehow you are.
On the emotional violence thing, although I might disagree with you on the societal prevalence of this, I think no one is saying that men can't stand up to emotional violence or should be condemned for doing so.
The reason why I talk imply you have veiled motives is that you are making criticisms that are disconnected from the post. The point you want to make is only vaguely connected to the discussion, so you have to make a jump to a different issue in order to bring up what you want to talk about. This is what I meant to call out.
1:05 pm
Richard, the solution to your dilemma is merely to read:
2:52 pm
@Rick Mangus
You are adorable. Thanks for doing my work for me.
3:50 pm
@Richard
I would argue that no act of violence by a man towards a women who is less than half his size could ever possibly be individualized in the way you're talking about. A man attempting to assert dominance over another man (however reprehensible any violent act may be) is still starting from a level playing field of gendered male privilege and power. Red herring fallacy scenarios do not apply here. Men systematically and historically have exercised power and dominance over women.
The problem is not with recognizing that women batter men, or that men batter other men, or that women batter other women, or that violence in general is a pervasive problem in our society. The problem occurs when these facts are used in an attempt to deny that the kind of violence born of misogyny and leveled by men against women isn't at all different.
4:15 pm
pow right in the kisser! :P
5:05 pm
personally i LOVE jersey shore ! snookie is my booo yo . i love her and i think its funnny that she got snuffed but at the same time i feel bad you have a great point but stillll a man is veryveryvery stronger than a women and she wasnt even expecting it , her head swung back sooo far she could have lke broke her neck or something.
6:38 pm
Amy wrote:
This type of comment elevates the seriousness of violence against women compared to other forms of violence. In order to determine if intimate partner violence (IPV) hurts women more, you have to compare such violence to other forms of violence. Only then can you get a context that is objective. And here are some facts that facilitate such a comparison, as quoted from Richard B. Felson, PhD, of Pennsylvania State University (Published in the journal Partner Abuse, Vol. 1, No. 1, 2010):
8:09 pm
@Amy:
First of all, thank you for braving the MRA minefield that is this comment thread. I don't know how you do it.
Thank you so much for your comment. You're right.
First of all, let me explain why I wasn't more disturbed with Snookie getting punched than I was with any of the other castmembers engaging in violence: Snookie's punch wasn't in the context of a battering situation. Unlike domestic violence situations, the man who hit her was arrested and Snookie was immediately removed from danger. I find some of the other incidents of violence on the show, which could be classified as partner violence, particularly troubling for that reason. Also, while Snookie was no longer in physical danger from the man who hit her, she was living with a group of men and women who appear to regularly hit people in the face, which is scary. I find it really sad that MTV is willing to recognize that it's wrong when its characters are victims of violence, but not when its characters are perpetrators of violence.
That being said, the violence against Snookie wasn't solely in the context of a drunken bar fight. It was televised and promoted by MTV, and celebrated by internet commentators. Unlike domestic violence, getting punched in the face by a guy at a bar isn't a form of violence that overwhelmingly affects women. But you're right: Just because this is a type of violence usually reserved for men doesn't mean the violence isn't gendered when it's directed at a woman.
In partner situations, violence committed by men against women often functions differently than the other way around. It's systemic, silenced and sometimes life-threatening. When you disseminate the image of a man punching a woman for the delight of television viewers everywhere, context is out the window---at that point, you're just reinforcing violence committed against women.
That being said, I'm disappointed that MTV has failed to recognize that the other violence depicted on the show is troubling. Of course, the violence appears to be the entire point of the show, so recognizing that would seem to cut into Jersey Shore's business model.
8:14 pm
MRA = Men Ready for Ass-fucking. What a bunch of cunts these "men" are.
6:27 am
Angry Al, you do realize that by calling them "ready for ass-fucking" and "cunts," you're feminizing them? If you want to be a feminist ally, please don't use femininity as an insult.
As for the rest of the comments...looks like this post drew a lot of idiots who wouldn't otherwise read a blog about sexism. Plus the usual blithering from the MRA turds. Amanda, I wish you would moderate your comments; women who've been abused don't need to read all that bullshit. (No, assholes, "freedom of speech" relates to the government, not a private blog.)
10:03 am
Also, anyone interested in some of the problems with the chivalric code against "hitting a girl" should read Amanda Marcotte's take on the Snookie incident.
4:47 pm
Amanda's "take" boils down to this: chivalry in defense of a woman's safety is really a veiled attempt at claiming ownership and dominance over that woman, no matter how well-intentioned. Therefore it is sexist and oppressive to engage in such chivalry.
By this logic, the Violence Against Women Act is oppressive against women, because it was passed and signed into law mostly by male elected officials.
I suppose that Amanda would also call it sexist and oppressive if a man saw a woman getting bullied or beaten and did nothing to stop it.
Amanda Marcotte can't see two inches in front of her face without interpreting whatever is before her as some sort of manifestation of misogyny.
5:32 pm
This show caters to the mentally challenged. I spent my life getting away from Jerry Springer contestants, and trailer park snoids. Yet here it is, big and colorful and proud, and yet no one thinks there is anything wrong with it. Awfully sad commentary.
11:51 pm
I don't condone violence. But I don't like seeing someone more physically dominant hurting someone smaller and physically weaker. How does that factor into the situation?
Snookie probably isn't even 5' tall. So for all these ppl who support the guy hitting Snookie, I wonder how you'd feel if a 300 pound muscle guy just hauls off and assaults a 150 guy? or if a group of guys assault a guy? It's violence...and if the person mouths off, they deserve it. WTF???
This article sucked. Violence against women is serious because it's usually not a fair fight -- esp when the guy sucker punches the girl. geez.
2:20 am
I would like to see the author's take on this when Ms. Hess or someone she loves has been beaten/threatened by someone who is much stronger.
Violence against women is scary and horrible and haunts its victims for a lifetime. The public needs to take violence against women seriously, and this article trivializes the issue.
12:00 pm
She is gross is every way. She is what is wrong with women today. Too bad she didn't get kicked too. She is not a woman, girl, or female. She is an Animal.
12:21 pm
Perhaps I'm being overly simplistic here, but...
Isn't there a difference between someone being hit BECAUSE she's a woman and someone being hit IN SPITE OF her being a woman?
The man who struck Snookie lashed out in stupid drunken anger; it didn't matter to him if it had been Mike Tyson who'd been the focus of his violence.
1:46 pm
http://comedians.jokes.com/bill-burr/videos/bill-burr---relentless-women?targetVideoId=183716&collectionId=184897&lastVideoId=184391
1:56 pm
"You know what they say, "There's no reason to ever hit a woman." Shit! There's a reason to hit everybody. You just don't do it. Shit, there's a reason to kick an old man down a flight of stairs. You just don't do it. Ain't nobody above an ass-whooping." - Chris Rock
3:05 pm
For the record, the average American male is 5.5 inches taller and 27.5 pounds heavier than the average American female. So lets cut this "half his size" shit out. Its a piece of rhetorical sleight of hand used to exaggerate a natural biological asymmetry and elicit sympathy . We don't need it
Even so, those who insist that "half my size" is a good enough reason for a man not to hit a woman, would be forced to agree that the corollary "twice as big as me" is an excellent reason for a woman not to fuck with a man.
As adults we all have a responsibility to restrain ourselves . Women do not and should not get a pass. Gender equality implies that we share the rights AND the responsibilities
Does anyone disagree with that?
5:58 pm
Size has nothing to do with it. A person should never ever ever lay a hand on their spouse, significant other, date or causual sex partner in anger. Violence is only excusable in defense of self or others.
Boys: Don't hit your boyfriend/husband.
Boys: Don't hit your girlfriend/wife.
Girls: Don't hit your girlfriend/wife.
Girls: Don't hit your boyfriend/husband
Defend yourself sure (i'm not saying be a dormat or allow yourself to be abused) I'm saying if you are that unhappy, get out, don't start beating your significant other up.
10:51 am
If you look at the video clip closely. What ever snookie was saying, she has been saying to the Gym Teacher for a while....
What ever anger that triggered the
Punch was long over due that evening.
interestingly, we man can be pushes and
pushed for so long before we fight back.
Also, I am sure he thought about slapping
her rather than launching into this full body
Throw-Punch. Sadly, his assult on her was
much more sinnester than everyone has really
seen. He was trying to kill her with his punch.
That was not just a punch, that was done with an intent to kill.
She probably didn't know this Gym Teacher. She probably delivered the ultimate line to him probably about 'his mother'. Guys will defend in their mother's honor.
Sadly, Snookie's parents should have gotten the spanking for not putting respect into their kids. Look at these 3 idiots running their mouth on the street thinking that they are somebody, when they are no body.
MTV is hiding behind the scene not claiming any responsibility. When you bring in a camera crew into a crowded night club shinning lights on these 3 idiots. It draws attention. She is obviously doubling up her bitchiness for the show. The Gym Teacher, an obviously quiet guy, was pushed and pushed. The Police should have gotten involved in interviewing and finding out exactly what was said and what happened. The MTV crew (including the 3 idiots ie Snookie as a paid employee$) should have been cited.
The only mistake is the Gym Teacher punching her.
In my opinion, Snookie deserved a slap... Probably not a knockout punch with intention to kill.
3:55 pm
Sam, THANKS FOR MAKING SENSE!!!
(also, thanks to the other like minded posters!)
You stole the words right out of my mouth (or keyboard). Every time I hear that silly, "women aren't as strong as men" argument, I always wonder why that information is being told to MEN. Women are the ones who need to take that into consideration before becoming violent, themselves. If men know that they tend to be stronger than women, surely women know that also, right?
Additionally, your five year old son may be half your height, and possess less than a tenth of your physical strength, but he can easily bring you to your knees with a well placed, poorly timed hit to the groin while playing. Clearly a grown woman has the potential to do far more damage than that, especially if she has a weapon, say, a golf club?...
You don't need to be as physically strong as another person to phyically harm them. If so, women's self-defense classes would be pointless. The "physical strength" excuse is just that, an excuse. It falls apart with just a little examination, just like any argument presented for dubious reasons. The real reason behind such arguments is the sense of entitlement many women suffer from. If you get really loud with a woman (without even coming near her), you can even be accused of "bullying" or "picking on a defenseless woman"! Why?!? Do you have an unfair verbal advantage over women? People (even many dumb men) are just uncomfortable with the idea of anyone standing up to a female, even when it's clearly justified.
8:21 pm
Luminist, shine on you crazy diamond! I wholeheartedly agree with your statement about size (and let me add gender) not being correlated to strength of body or will . In fact I believe this is the same argument used to discount the sexist belief that women do not have what it takes to be firefighters or serve in the military. Its self-evident that if a woman has the strength to keep up with (if not surpass) a man in a career where physical strength is called for, that ability does not magically disappear in social settings.
But women know this. Come on, y'all know you do. Show me a woman who will continually antagonize and provoke a larger or fiercer woman without thinking that it may escalate to the physical. Please, I'd like to meet that most clueless of woman. Doesn't happen. Two women go at it and either they fight or the one who doesn't want to fight makes peace and backs down. Thats how it's supposed to work. In the real world - as opposed to this judicially proscribed nanny-state we find ourselves in today - does anyone blithely put themselves at risk of bodily harm because they are fully confident in the forbearance of others ?
Ill ask that question another way: Does anyone cross the street without looking simply because "By Law Pedestrians Have The Right Of Way" ?
Hell fucking no
Sure we may be able to sue afterwards and make some dollars, but we all know its not worth being laid the fuck out.
So women, practice a little restraint on your end, please. Even if you've been insulted, find other avenues of redress. Some people, men and women, are just assholes. Think about your safety and dignity. It doesn't mean that you re powerless. Just pick your battles, like any adult has to do
And ladies, tell your hot-under-the-collar friends to chill the fuck out. It ain't that deep. Unless youve been attacked or feel threatened do not escalate. Cause sometimes you can take it too far and then end up wondering how the fuck you ended up HERE (on the floor crying) . Pull a dogs tail enough and it will bite. It doesn't matter if the dog is domesticated AND had its nuts cut off (an apt metaphor for today's man, I think). Doing something just because you can might end up bad for everyone. Ask Snooki
Damn. After looking at the video one more time, Ill end by paraphrasing Chris Rock : " Now Im not sayin he should'a hit her... but I understand."
3:32 pm
This is the same Snookie seen doing cartwheels in a skirt so short it hangs about one centimeter below "munchkin land" AND with only a "thong" (actually looked more like a G-string) underneath. No wonder people all over America are seeing this show and thinking Italians are all skanks and punks.
4:28 pm
The dude that smacked her deserves a medal.
10:00 pm
"Show me a woman who will continually antagonize and provoke a larger or fiercer woman without thinking that it may escalate to the physical."
Ha. I would never think that a verbal fight would escalate to a physical one. As a woman, I've never been in a physical fight. I'm sure plenty of men have, because men are basically less hairy apes.
4:57 pm
Hey hey Sammy. Damn, reading comprehension isn't what it used to be, is it?
You don't fight? Good on you. But the assumption that a verbal confrontation will ALWAYS escalate to a physical one was never claimed. In fact, your response so missed the mark that I'm tempted to think this is a troll. But what the hell, its good fun
Lets get crackalackin'.
Ill re-pose the question you subtly changed to make your (weak) point: Do you provoke and continually antagonize bigger, fiercer women? Without getting into 1 fight? If so, then your'e either a wretch a la Snookie or very brave. Or both. If not, then - and hold on to your copy of 'Life and Death' - you've not disagreed with my point.
In fact, if you have made it a habit in your life to persistently provoke meaty, East-German-type women, Im willing to bet that you have not ever had to fight because:
(1) Either you and/or your interlocutor eventually backed down or defused the situation
(2) A third party or group defused the situation
(3) A third party or group did the fighting for you
None of these scenarios run counter to my point. Put more plainly, you don't keep fucking with someone bigger than you without thinking SOMETHING might happen
But now that I'm here, Ill go a step further. Even if , as a more-hairy ape, a woman can resolve her differences without physical fighting, this does not imply it is the BETTER way or that men do (or should do) the same. Men and women are different. Different styles and forms of bonding, communication, and yes conflict resolution. It is unpolitically-correct to say this, so I will speak for myself (but I hope also for the better share of men on this board): I'd rather if women start taking the responsibility of understanding men and our mechanisms instead of inculcating us in your ways. Women aren't inherently better than men. And men are not inherently better than women. I refute both those tired old chestnuts. Men and women are trying to achieve the same goals. We are simply using different methods.
Its time we learned more about each other and how best to deal with and respect the other's methods. Not how best to turn one gender into the other. I want men and women to be equal - but not the same.
You disagree?
PS.. Evolutionarily we are all less-hairy apes. Men and women. Look it up. Its true. I swear
2:48 am
This is disturbing...you men are sick. Women are physically smaller than men and dont have the same upper body strength. Men know this. That's why you dont fight women. We want our cake and to eat it too? social advancement and physical abuse towards women are two different things. For you men who think it is okay to hit women...??? that's precisely why I carry pepper spray and a box cutter... for men just like you. Men who think it is okay to punch a woman in the face. I'll take the punch all right, but you will never see again. you want to hit me, a woman and you are man? I will empty the bottle in your eyes and then give you a slashing you will NEVER forget. When you look in the mirror, you would rue the day you ever laid hands on me.
12:45 pm
Mari wrote:
You misstated the reality, Mari. Regarding women's relatively smaller size, instead of stating that "men know this" and therefore should never engage an abusive woman, you should have said "women know this" and therefore women abuse with impunity. The only thing standing between an abusive woman and a knuckle sandwich is a man's patience and self-control. Sooner or later, she's going to run into a man who won't endure her abuse and he's going to knock her well into next Tuesday. If you want to fight violence against women, challenge abusive women. Don't ascribe the problem to the rest of the world and give abusive women a pass; challenge them to learn some self-control and prudence themselves. Did that ever occur to you? Or did you assume that it should be a woman's prerogative to say and do whatever she wants to whatever male victim she chooses?
A great way to combat violence against women is to challenge the women.
11:40 am
I know it late to add this but the guy known as the "Situation" is a gay for pay guy who use to dance in gay clubs striping and ran an ad on 'Rentboy.com' to have sex with other men.
Did I or did I not say this at the top of this blog!
1:36 pm
I'm sorry - Snookie, no matter how stupid or obnoxious she is is LESS THEN 5 FT TALL - there is no reason she should of been hit like that.
Everything else aside, the violence in the show, wither playful or cruel, her behavior, whatever, it was wrong. All those things are clouding the picture and blaming the victim and have NOTHING to do with the incident.
5:02 pm
Caitlin wrote: "I’m sorry – Snookie, no matter how stupid or obnoxious she is is LESS THEN 5 FT TALL – there is no reason she should of been hit like that."
Translation: "The Napoleons of the world should be entitled to inflict whatever emotional and/or physical violence that they like, because after all, they're harmless."
7:16 pm
I'm tired of people crying for little ole Snookie! I for one do not advocate violence. The only persons hurt by this display of reality is the viewing audience. However from a legal standpoint, Snookie while standing on the bar stool, waving and pointing her hands in the face of the male patron appeared overly aggressive and menacing. Snookie's boisterous display of alcohol fueled psychosis is what caused the male to fear for his safety, thus strike Snookie in the mouth. He did this not to hurt or humiliate her but to stop her assault. I'm sure Snookie's spit was as dangerous as his punch.
12:20 pm
you are all dumb...
6:12 pm
"Jersey Shore" may well be the biggest assemblage of Douche Bags in the history of television.
But how can you not help but love the Queen Douche Bag of them all...Snookie.
Guys really dig chicks who are drunk, stupid, slutty, midgets who think its fashionable to wear a bird's nest on top of your head!!!
12:37 am
snookie got all upset when "she" got punched, but when ANYONE else is about to fight or if she sees a girl running her mouth (or even a guy) she then runs her mouth regarding those people, wanting to see people hit each other and fight. she completely forgot what it feels like to get into a fight. someone who gets hit like she did and bleeds and cries who then a couple of days later cheers on other people to get into a fight is just dumb
11:05 pm
Honestly Sammy makes no sense. I 100% agree with Sam "Even so, those who insist that “half my size” is a good enough reason for a man not to hit a woman, would be forced to agree that the corollary “twice as big as me” is an excellent reason for a woman not to fuck with a man."
I am a man and I would not antagonize a man twice my size since I know what would happen. Women think they can yell like a man without the consequences, I am NOT saying hit a girl but girls need to understand not every guy thinks the same thing.
12:09 am
Ok, well lets just imagine this is your daughter getting hit, just because shes a bit obnoxious? This should not have happened to that girl, no matter her behaviors.
9:20 am
"A woman grabbing a man’s neck to force his face into her breasts:"
Is not violent. It just means that man is a lucky boy
5:07 pm
u all have way to much time to sit and type 3 pgs about one punch so its ok for you to punch a bitch your moms a bitch i can punch her and shell need it right yall stupit
12:11 pm
Just Fyi, you aren't talking about a "character" when talking about Snookie. When you say "obnoxious" you are referring to a human being. You're opinion of wether they are more or less obnoxious by "your" standards puts a slant on this review.
1:36 pm
I just wanted to say I'm pleasantly surprised to see that people are starting to realize the sexism and double standards against MEN.
12:47 pm
Most of you men here sound like a bunch of unevolved assholes over analysing something that doesn't need much analysis. Because everything that happened was pretty straightforward. Right? I mean here is your opinion from your point of the view.
And the summary of the majority of the voices here are Snookie deservered to be punched in the face because she "emotionally abused" the instigator and therefor provoked the predator.
Women need to not voice our opinions or feelings when being taking advantage of because it's pretty obvious that most men can't control their tempers. If we did choose to stick up for ourselves it would come off as "emotional Abuse" and therefore fully instigating the situation which most sensitive males would take poorly and decide to lay a nice heavy fist on my side cheek.
That us women can't have our CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. Really, I thought we could. What is cake to you? Cake to me is telling someone to back the fuck off which in that moment "douchebag" actually realizes that "OH RIGHT, THOSE AREN"T MY DRINKS THOSE ARE YOURS? MY FUCKING BAD. I'll leave you alone now....(walks away).
So...Haha I'm not gonna write 2,000 more words on why I disagree or why I think you're just plain pathetic. I'm sure the most of you men who posted those "ideas" of yours didn't have much of a positive upbringing. I'm pretty sure you're not a happy person but maybe a rather depressed, argumentative, problematic individual. So see ya and have a good day. And I can bett you a million dollars I'm right. :)
9:20 pm
The decline of the American Empire at its best....LOL....The show is a reflection of American Culture
3:55 pm
I am pleasantly surprised to see that some of the men and women commenting here have moved on from such the "men are not EVER supposed to hit women" bullshit that's been forcively incised in American society. I disagree with this sentiment, but can't say I completely agree with some of what has been said by some of you. I don't agree that physical retaliation as a response to verbal/emotional abuse (so long as it ends there) is EVER ok regardless of the gender either party involved. I believe it to be highly primitive and dispicable even, for someone (male or female) to attack someone physically because of their lack of self restraint as it pertains to emotions (or as with Slutty McGee's attacker, altered state). However, if person A (regardless of gender and/or size), decides to physically attack person B (again, regardless of gender and/or size) with the intent to physically harm them, they are NOT the victim if/when person B lays them out. For arguments sake, here is a personal situation involving myself and a female peer.
This female student, came to me because she had been told that I had done something that didn't please her (first of all, it was hearsay, as I had not in fact done anything, and the incident for which I was blamed involved NO ONE being harmed physically OR verbally.) She confronted me, and when I stood my ground (with just my words), she became angry (I suppose at being out witted) and spat in my face. I then immediately removed myself from the situation, and walked away, which pissed her off even more. She then (with my back turned) jumped on me and started punching me in the back of my head and neck. I turned around and was about to knock this bitch out, but someone had broken the fight up by then. I was later told by both male and female classmates that I was lucky I didn't hit her, because if I had, they would have to "kick my ass." Please, feminists, explain to me how, if I had indeed knocked this heifer on her ass, HOW would SHE be the victim? She wouldn't be. A vagina is NOT a "Get Out of Jail Free" card in the case of women physically challenging men, and it needs to be recognized.
6:32 pm
So...what if a girl was taller and stronger than a guy?
7:01 pm
@ Blake
Thank you for that anecdote,hopefully it will open the eyes of some these female chauvinist. but unfortunately people will hear what they want to hear and some feminist willf find a way to make that scenario your fault
but i have a question. say i'm walking through the plains of africa. i see a lion. the lion is bigger than me and stronger than me. both i and the lion know this. i decide that i want to go hit the lion with the biggest rock i can find, should i expect the lion to not do anything because it's morally wrong? NO. i will garner zero sympathy and parents will use me as an example of a clinicaly insane human being
women if you go looking for trouble eventually you'll find it whether it be with another woman, a man,tranny,dog,bear,or whatever. there is a line that shouldn't be crossed and this line is genderless
CHIVARLY ISN'T DEAD ITS REDIFINED
6:16 pm
I LOVED THAT FAT SLOB BEING BASHED IN THE FACE!!!! IT WAS WAY COOL! SHE'S SO ANNOYING. SHE THINKS SHE'S COOL --- SHE'S NOT! SHE'S STUCK UP AND FULL OF HERSELF. I ACTUALLY CLAPPED WHEN SHE GOT HIT BY A GUY! BAM!!!!!!!!!!
YAAAY~!!!
6:21 pm
Check this out, People.
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/nsfw/has-marie-osmond-ever-posed-nude
3:20 am
@Daniel
If the girl was bigger/stronger than the guy, guy would say to himself 'i am not fucking with her'.
3:39 am
@ Alex: You have brought up the point that the man took her drink. Dude was NOT cool. I'm surprised Snookie didn't punch him in the face.
But i'm curious of your opinion of a case like Blake's?
Snookie getting punched in the face is not the issue; how men and women deal with the other, and their own, sex is the issue... As well as the subsequent 'fuck off this is bullshit' perceived by both sides is the issue.
12:28 pm
Jersey Shore - A show about a group of sluts and thug wannabe's partying. Hell I can go down to the local bar on weekends and see that.
What a waste of air time. But then again MTV is suppose to be Music Television. Key word being MUSIC. When was the last time anyone saw a music video on MTV.
2:03 am
hitting people is never a good thing, obviously. Why don't you all focus on that instead of trying to figure when it is appropriate to hit women,or whatever you are doing? I'm sort of joking there, I do think this situation should be discussed. I'm female and I would much rather be hit hard by a woman, than less hard by a man. I'm not sure why this is, but that's how it is. I think a lot of women are slightly scared of men, for whatever reason. Apart the physical side (men are usually stonger than women, apart from size-they usually have more muscle)I think men and women aren't equally matched in other ways. I would rather be in a fight with a woman. I dunno. maybe it's an insecurity thing, too. Like how you always hear that someone does something "like a girl" and it's always a bad thing. All those sorts of little comments that are accepted..saying that men are better. I don't know, sometimes it seems like an authority thing, men punching women. If I was punched by a man who didn't care if I was a woman at all..that's different. But I think that's pretty rare. If I was punched by a man who was thought of women as inferior, I would feel really angry, but ultimately powerless, like he has made me inferior by asserting his dominance. Which I think is worse. And I'd be way too scared to hit back. On another note- that might actually make sense) I didn't watch the clip,
but this girl does sound like she has something wrong with her, and you should never punch a person with a disability :)
7:05 am
"Snookie is more annoying because she is a woman"
this statment by the idiot who wrote the article is sexist enough
"Punching a woman in the face is more taboo than punching a man"
this also sadly ture coz women are tought not to b e violent and be submissive
if u hadnt said the first statment which is sexist i would agree with u about the violence on the whole
but hating a person coz they are a woman and saying its ok to punch them shows that it is violence afainst women(im taking bout u, not the bastard who punched her)
btw the law clearly states that anyone man/woman attacks another man/woman it is delt with seriously witth the same consequenses
5:51 pm
i've worked in a hospital and seen men hit women and women hit men. cops come take the guy spins 4to5 days in jail and charges him. for women on the other hand one night in jail they only get charge if the guy ask for it.
still there is no way it would ever be equal. life is just f#$%ed up and did you know that guy was a teacher for young kids?
8:11 pm
Let's ignore gender for a moment, and examine the act of violence that was comitted. Both men and women are completely equal (this is the statement that feminists are ardently promoting). Assuming this, one person had a confrontation with another. A person stole the other's drink, so she told him to give it back (although very obnoxiously), and he didn't. As the one person continued to poke and prod the other, who was clearly innebriated and not thinking clearly, he finally snapped and the confrontation became physical.
Now that I've established the genders are completely equal (therefore, the confrontation was equally obtuse on both sides), let's look at the size issue. The smaller person clearly thought they had a chance, so they stood their ground and fought. Clearly it was a bad decision because it resulted in the confrontation we viewed above. It shouldn't make a difference that the smaller person had boobs.
If this happened with two monkeys, then it would make complete sense. The bigger monkey took the banana from the smaller monkey. The smaller one stood its ground and tried very hard to take the banana back. The big monkey got pissed off and hit the little one.
Many of you will most likely interpret this to say "Men can take whatever they want from women because they're bigger and women are stupid to do anything about it!" That's completely incorrect. Try rereading what I said with an unbiased view and then get back to me. There was a confrontation between two people, that was all.
Violence is equally bad in any situation. It doesn't become worse just because one of the people involved is a woman.
A truly unjustified act of violence would be a mugging, or a random punch to the face while walking down the sidewalk. "Snookie" stood her ground against a larger opponent and frankly, bit off more than she could chew. We can't assume the man was a sexist. Let's not forget he was so drunk that the bartender refused to serve him more alcohol...
Just to conclude: Let's ignore gender, because, as feminists have proven by making leaps and bounds in women's rights over the past century have proved, both genders are totally equal. From that point, we can look at the confrontation from an unbiased point of view and voila! Problem solved.
1:21 am
I'm just wondering why no one is pointing out that this man is a thief? He stole someone else's property! If someone had stolen your property, wouldn't you be angry about it? And if that person was standing right in front of you, wouldn't you confront them? How can any of you say that this person was justified in punching someone that was ticked off about getting ripped off? WTF? Please don't tell me that you would have just sat there and said nothing. Perhaps you would have thanked him and bought him ANOTHER drink? Get real! And if it's so bad for a female to stand up for herself (obnoxiously or not) when someone commits a crime against her, then why didn't one of the surrounding men speak up for her? Do they condone theft? I bet the drunk bully, that had no control over himself, wouldn't have stolen a drink from someone bigger than him, or from someone his size, for that matter.
I cannot believe that so many of the people that posted here would give so much support to a thief. I could see supporting him if she had punched him in the face first and he had, also, not stolen her property, but not because she was bitching at him for stealing from her.