Second, Kanin's "study" reveals that he never actually talked to the victims. He only talked to the police department. That police department used the polygraph to "encourage" accusers to recant. There is a good reason why polygraph test results are inadmissible in court -- they are notorious for their inaccuracy, as well as their use in extracting false confessions and forcing people to retract good-faith allegations out of fear. Subjecting a rape victim, who has just been through a tremendously traumatic experience, to a polygraph is highly likely to yield inaccurate results and to intimidate the victim into recanting just so she wouldn't have to be treated this way. It is surprising that only 41% of accusers in this town recant. The only thing that Kanin's "study" proves is the misogynistic and dismissive attitude towards rape of the town's police department.

"I must NOT shudder"

(Note to self: read aloud before submitting.)

"And just off the topic, we all know how hard feminists are working to prevent rape in prisions LMAO. Of course they deserve it don’t they? What a joke you all are."

You're not off-topic at all. Let me say it again: rape is NEVER deserved. Not men, not women, not transgender persons, not prison inmates--NOBODY deserves to be raped. If you honestly think feminists don't care about prison rape, you need to brush up on some of feminism's finer points. In fact, nine of the ten members on the board of directors for Stop Prison Rape Inc. are WOMEN. Where are all of the Men's Rights advocates? They're probably making prison rape jokes and thinking that inmates deserve what they get.

All rapists (incarcerated or not) use rape to control their victims, and the reason they get away with it is that our culture encourages victims to remain silent about it. Feminists are, for the most part, the only ones standing up for rape victims--ALL rape victims. So please don't tell me that because I'm a feminist, I must shudder at the thought of the atrocities being committed in prisons, or that I don't care enough. Rape happens because our culture encourages it, and prison rape is an example of that.

"It is little consolation to a woman who is raped that the men in her life will jump to defend her honor."

Sooorrry. I would smash their face to a bloody pulp and call the police afterwards for my own personal enjoyment then.

I'd like to tell you about how I lost my virginity while blacked out, while all my peer group watched, as one of the biggest whores at my highschool had sex with me at the bottom of a hill at one of the local gathering spots. Ring side seats for everyone. I'd say about 70 to 100 people were there, all grades, both sexes, a lot of the cool kids. No one came to my honor. In fact immediately afterwards, with everyone still watching, my brother beat the shit out of me for it. Apparently I cried quite a bit. Blubbered really from what I understand. Its probably a very good thing I hardly remember any of it. In fact, I woke up the next day in a good mood. I thought I hooked up because of the hicky on my neck. Bitch gave me a hicky the size of a golf ball. Sorta like a scarlett letter for the next week or two of that summer. You think my friends didn't use that as an excuse to give me hell. You think I couldn't tell how every girl I knew looked at me differently, even a big geek like me could pick up on those social cues. I'd worked so hard to fit in, mainly for my brother. The skinny kid with a little chin who talked funny yet somehow managed to get into the in-crowd (thats a whole nother story). I had just turned 15, going into my sophmore year. You think any girl would date me after that. That bitch even had the nerve to come up to me at my 10 year reunion like she did nothing wrong. She told me I look great. Thanks.

Don't feel sorry for me, because I'm a badass now, just like I was before that shit went down. Having a severe speech impediment somehow made me a fighter. Figurtively and literally. And then having your dignity stripped from you like that...frees you. I'm not afraid of your shaming tactics. I have no shame. And Leslie, I would find your rapist, and beat them to a bloody pulp so that they never looked the same again, maybe a little for you, but more for me...I promise you that. Take it for what its worth. And if I have to prove my story, some of the more sordid parts I left out by the way, I will, but once my evidence is presented, I would expect an apology from every feminist on this board for ever thinking that they lay claim to victimhood any more than men. Test me. By the way, my wife is hot and makes more money then me which enables me to pursue art. She hates men. Had an overbearing father. Just like my man-hating mom. Life huh?! Shits and giggles. You never know how things are going to play out.

I make no claims of what is normal or abnormal. I just recognize that different people deal with trauma differently. But, you know, if you don't believe me: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=different+people+respond+differently+to+trauma

And just off the topic, we all know how hard feminists are working to prevent rape in prisions LMAO. Of course they deserve it don't they? What a joke you all are.

Baraqiel, so I guess you have no problem playing amature pyschologist. So tell me, do you think it's normal for a woman to be highly sexually active after claiming to have been raped, or is this just a case of how someone might deal with the trauma of having been violated? Well, it all sounds a little fishy to me, but then of course I'm not a feminist.

And if my identity had been revealed, when I was falsely accused of rape, and my false accusers had not, I wouldn't have reallly cared about what some feminists, idiotic semantic argument, about whether "this practice is about our legal system in general, not how our legal system deals with rape."

I thought I dealt with this accusation already. A reason something might happen is not an excuse, justification, or defense. Understanding why some men rape is not the same as condoning it. I also didn't say that men beaten down and emasculated by feminism is what causes eruptions of rape, I said:

"Modern society, instead of redirecting those masculine energies through competition in school, seek to suppress them. Suppressing masculinity leads to an eruption of it, maybe even sometimes to rape."

Modern society = not feminism
Sometimes rape = not rape

Again; A reason something might happen is not an excuse, justification, or defense.

Suppressing something leads to a release of it. Some people release these energies through sports or music, but not all people are taught healthy outlets for release. Thats all I'm saying. If someone has not learned a healthy outlet to release their pent up energies, that energy will either eat them from the inside out, or they will release it through fighting, vandalism, anti-social behavior, and yes sometimes rape. I would think that simply stating psychologically unhealthy men are more prone to rape than psychologically healthy men is not that controversial. What might be controversial to you is that I believe many psychologically unhealthy men today are that way because our society looks down on masculinity. How are men going to understand that their urges (not just sexual) are natural, and there are ways to release the pressures of them, if we shame and denigrate men for having them in the first place. If we cannot even have a dialouge about male sexuality without it being ridiculed, why would men listen to anything people have to say about a healthy sex life. Repeat, a reason is not an excuse, justification, or defense. If you don't think suppressing ones core being (masculinity) leads to huge psychological issues, if you don't think suppressing through shame someones natural sex drive is unhealthy for their psyche, go talk to gay men who grew up before the 80's, hell who grow up today in many places. I believe suicide if prevalent in the youth gay community for many years. And when I mentioned it in another post, I was simply clarifying it from the distortions that continue to be made about it. I suspect I will have to clarify this a third time as well.

"@ Anon

Chill out she is baiting you!"

If it was a trap, I'll stick my foot in it again. Speaking of which;

"I mean, I’d rather look like a snotty sixth grader than like an idiot. Regardless, I happen to love the English language and I hate to see it so callously abused."

If poor spelling makes me look like an idiot to you, you have a pretty narrow view on intelligence. I guess Spell Checker is smarter than you are, as I'm pretty sure that software program would beat you in a spelling bee.

"@Anon – No, no, no, I corrected your spelling. Grammar I didn’t even bother to touch."

You never told me what the opposite of a shovel is?
Seriously smart ass, I'll give you props if you get it right.

"The Y chromosome being a mutation of the X chromosome is not the same thing as men being a mutation of women. As for your attempt to suggest that males are more highly evolved than females, evolution works on a species basis. Men and women are not in fact different species. One could certainly argue that species that employ sexual reproduction are in some sense more highly evolved than species that reproduce in some other manner, although the utility of such arguments is doubtful to say the least."

Your rebuttle is correct, good thing I was joking (I'd say being faseeshus, but since I can't spell it, you probably would use it as an oppurtunity to take a swipe at me...wait a second...). Sorry I didn't use my sarcasm font, I forget which key it is. If we can't be smart asses sometimes, whats the point of debating other than to arrive at higher truths. Are you sure you don't have Aspergers also. I smell a geek.

"Nick, rape shield laws prevent defense attorneys from using a woman’s sexual history in a rape trial. Why do you think that a woman’s sexual history should be admissible evidence in a rape trial?"

I'd say as evidence of someone's character. Thats why attornys would like to use it. Nevermind, I forgot there is nothing wrong with promiscuity, no matter what the vast majority of people think. Oh, and yeah, a womens character should never be judged. Thats just sexist! Hell, we should be proud when one of our daughters sleeps with the whole football team, who needs commited monogomous relationships built on emotional intimacy anyways? Keep giving the Alpha males (those leaders of the patriarchy) what they want, easy access to your daughters and grand-daughters. That will show em'!!

"In reading even more of these comments (a thing I wish I hadn’t done), I can’t help notice that the “Men’s Rights” advocates are the ones slinging personal insults and emotionally-charged arguments. You have name-called and challenged these women to insult you back, to lose their tempers, to act like the irrational beings you want to pretend we are. But their responses (mine being one of the few exceptions!) are all well-considered, even-tempered, and on point. It’s comforting to know that while you imbeciles can get a rise out of me, these ladies (and gentlemen, there’s gotta be at least one–tell me I just missed it?) are representing. I feel like we are in good hands."

I concede to the above in spirit; men aren't as good at subtly pushing womens buttons as vice versa, but I do not concede the larger argument at hand. Many broader points I made were ignored, and rather idividual statements of mine were needlessly dissected. It has been a good back and forth however. I think you'd be a close minded fool if you hadn't learned something from both sides. We are both honing the debate for another time however, and the audience will be a lot larger then just blog readers and internet junkies one day. I hear the sound of swords sharpening on both sides. I do so love competition. I hope you do also. I'd hate for Feminsit not to put up a good fight. Love thy enemy (why not, it confuses the hell out of them). Peace. Or is that piece, or peece, or peese, or peise, god I hate our language. Why can't we just spell it like it sounds.

Well, I don't know, because I'm not a psychologist. All I know is that I've observed different people dealing very differently with trauma. Are you a psychologist, Nick? Do you have some knowledge suggesting that every single woman -- again, we're talking about 3 billion people here -- deals with trauma in exactly the same way? Because if not, I don't think you have any grounds to claim that a woman's sexual activity surrounding her rape has any bearing on the veracity of her claim.

Revealing names to the press is a topic that was discussed up thread. There are certainly arguments for changing the general legal practice of not revealing the names of criminal accusers to the press. But that is an argument about our legal system in general, not one about how our legal system deals with rape.

Please get raped and then tell me how you feel. I guess being sullied by a violent criminal should make me ashamed to be intimate with my husband or boyfriend? I guess that because I was violated, I should hate my own body, or the idea of feeling pleasure from it ever again? What do a woman's intimate habits surrounding the time of a rape have to do with whether or not it happened? Would you ask someone whose home had been burglarized whether or not they allowed guests during the time after the robbery to determine the credibility of their claim?

I don't see what a woman's social calendar has to do with such allegations. Oh, I forgot! If you can prove a woman consents to and enjoys intimacy, you can prove she's a shameful whore who deserved and wanted forced sex. I'm sorry, this estrogen-addled brain of mine sometimes gets a little turned around!

And you are right, the stories I have read where women made false rape claims, and then made them again, and again, and again, the reason that evidence wasn't used was because they were never taken to trial for the false claims so they couldn't admit the evidence. You are right. Hopefully someday DA's actually will go after women who make false claims as hard as they go after rapists, so that they can use that as evidence when she makes her next claim.

So, again: Why do you think that a woman's sexual history should be admissible evidence in a rape trial?

If you had bothered to read the entire thread, you would notice that, in fact, Anon had offered an excuse for rape, which is that men, so beaten down and emasculated by feminist ideology, "erupt" in a fever of masculine energy and rape women. He actually mentions the same idea in another comment, but I don't have time to walk you through them. Sounds like an excuse to me.

I'm not "in favor" of someone who falsely accuses another of rape. Where are you getting this? I know for a fact that baraqiel has stated how reprehensible it is to accuse someone of a crime they didn't commit at least twice, possibly more. False accusations suck for ANY crime. But let's not pretend that they are the norm, or in any way as common as rape victims NOT coming forward because they fear they won't be believed. (Hmm, maybe they're concerned the first person they tell will say, "Another woman saying she's been raped? Big fucking yawn.")

@Anon - No, no, no, I corrected your spelling. Grammar I didn't even bother to touch.

The Y chromosome being a mutation of the X chromosome is not the same thing as men being a mutation of women. As for your attempt to suggest that males are more highly evolved than females, evolution works on a species basis. Men and women are not in fact different species. One could certainly argue that species that employ sexual reproduction are in some sense more highly evolved than species that reproduce in some other manner, although the utility of such arguments is doubtful to say the least.

"I’ve never met a women who didn’t snuggle up in the warm blanket of female privledge all the while expecting men to carry on as uncomplaining beasts of burden as we always have."

http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/faq-female-privilege/

Do you understand how unoriginal your arguments are? They are so unoriginal that feminists created a blog full of responses to them already.

"What you see as the patriachy by the way, is class elitism."

Look up "intersectionality". And yes, feminism does fight classism, and no, not just through support for single mothers -- and what exactly about single mothers suggests that they behave badly? Feminism has a long history of supporting fair labor practices, equal access to health care, equal access to education -- all issues of classism.

"No girls ever asked me out, bought me dinner, allowed me to raise my children, or fought in the front lines of a war to protect my freedoms."

Don't pretend such women don't exist. My boyfriend and I take turns paying for dinner and I asked him out in the first place -- and I know a lot of other women like me. Shockingly, the couples I know where both parents are equal partners in parenting are couples where the woman is a feminist. The same is true for buying dinner for men. Maybe if you want a relationship with more parity, you should try dating some feminists.

I don't agree with the draft, so I don't support that for anyone, but I absolutely believe that women should be fighting on the front lines. In fact, women are de facto fighting on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan right now -- what's stopping commanding officers from putting women officially in the line of combat is a set of regulations that have to be changed by Congress, and Congress has declined to do so during a war.

If you can't be bothered to show concern for men falsely accused of rape then I could not give a shit about rape victims.

Alot of men like myself who were sypathetic to the causes of feminism are gradually switching off thanks to the constant demonising of men.

Another woman says she's been raped? *Big fucking yawn*

A Mangyna is a man who detests his manhood and his own genitalia. In other words, he will gladly sacrifice them for the favor of women. He is NOT a man with a vagina. In his mind, that would give him god like status, something he feels women and only women are capable of.

@ baraqiel

Ahh, your love of the English Language. After all, the whole Germanic-Latin-Franco hybrid was designed by a bunch of Anglican monks so you would not "look like an idiot." People with shaky arguments always love to flaunt their communication skills as evidence of superiority and in fact are able to fool a great many into believing that these skills actually make them right. You air the putrid narcissism of an outmoded scribe about you.

As for: "I am familiar with those xyonline dudes. We in the Men’s Rights Movement have a name for them: Mangyna"

Lovely example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Textbook!

"Mangyna." Nice. Because, after all, it's fun to humiliate men by insinuating that they have female anatomy.

Sexism is fun!

1.) Getting a conviction for rape is rare. I've survived sexual assaults by two different men and neither of my attackers served any time at all. Why? Because I knew (even at fourteen years of age, which is when the first attack occurred) that the chances of prosecuting my rapist were slim to none. Without enforcement, laws against rape are useless. They are, literally, the absolute least our society can do. As long as our culture perpetuates the myth that women who enjoy sex are "sluts" and, therefore, can't be raped, we aren't preventing any rapes. We're just telling victims to shut up and endure it in silence.

2.) It is little consolation to a woman who is raped that the men in her life will jump to defend her honor. Women don't need men to resort to violence in a misguided attempt to bring about vigilante justice. That's ridiculous, and it doesn't help anything--the woman has already been raped. What good is violence after the fact? And while it is endearing to think of fathers warning their daughters to not get themselves raped, wouldn't it make more sense for fathers to tell their sons not to rape anybody? Perhaps by setting examples of equality in the home so sons grow up to look at women as, you know, human beings, instead of creatures they can dominate and control?

3.) I have nothing to say about college fraternities. I was a drama geek and avoided Fraternity Row like the plague. But keep in mind that although you may not have heard about rapes occurring, this doesn't mean they weren't happening. There are some men who think it's perfectly fine to take advantage of a drunk woman, or a silent woman, or a crying woman, and just because you didn't hear the word "rape" doesn't mean shit.

4.) I'm sure you meant to make a point or two about feminism, but you lost me with the condescension and anti-feminist rambling. You also tossed in more of this "natural sex drive" bullshit, as though rape is about sex instead of power, as though women exist to accommodate your erection schedule. You're not entitled to pussy whenever you want it. But one word of advice--you'd probably have more luck with the ladies if you treated them with respect. Just a thought.

It isn't feminism that has turned men into wage slaves and breadwinners--that's the patriarchy (and it's one of the ways that the patriarchy hurts women, just as baraqiel mentioned). As a feminist, I want to work and support myself and my children. I want to get paid a fair wage. I want to be in a respectful, fulfilling marriage with a husband who values me as a human being. Where is the disconnect? Why are these ideas so problematic?

Chill out she is baiting you!

@ baraqiel

Your use of a spell check to humiliate a guy who is typing a lengthily train of thought most likely in his office on an online posting board without the use of a spell check makes you look like a snotty 6th grader.

I am familiar with those xyonline dudes. We in the Men's Rights Movement have a name for them: Mangyna. A Mangyna is a man who will do and say ANYTHING to win the approval of women. Also indicative of Mangynaism (and yes it is an "ism" like Feminism or any other ism which is not above questioning) is the belief that by abdicating the discourse to feminism all of societies ill will go away. This is bullshit. I am not going to have a bunch of people define for me my problems as a man when I am quite capable of identifying and quantifying them myself.

"Furthermore, the opposite of feminism is anti-feminism."

What are you, the queen of opposites. What's the opposite of a shovel? Smart ass.

"The male and the female are not opposites in any biologically meaningful sense"

OOoo, biology, a big word. Of course were not opposites, but feminism divided us, so we are definantly opposing each other. And biologically speaking, men are a mutation of women, and when mutations stick around due to their adaptive advantages, thats called evolution.

"The fact that you don’t know that feminism fights against the gender policing of men as well just shows that you don’t know much about feminism. We even have a phrase for it (the patriarchy hurts men, too). You might find this collection of essays by feminist men illuminating"

Read many of them. I've been doing this a while now. Agree in principle, I just don't see any practice. How would you like it if I gave you a lecture on equality while only insuring my own rights and privledges? It would probably piss you off even more. I've never met a women who didn't snuggle up in the warm blanket of female privledge all the while expecting men to carry on as uncomplaining beasts of burden as we always have. Even self professed feminist. No girls ever asked me out, bought me dinner, allowed me to raise my children, or fought in the front lines of a war to protect my freedoms. What you see as the patriachy by the way, is class elitism. And yes, it hurts men as well as women, but feminism doesn't fight in the class warfare fight, unless its fighting for welfare for single moms, and that does more harm than good in the long run, because it accomadates and rewards bad behavior. I'll be back tomorrow. Love the debate. No hard feelings, honest, men just play to win, dosn't mean we don't respect our opponent. Women might want to look into that. I think its called sportsmanship.

Furthermore, the opposite of feminism is anti-feminism. The male and the female are not opposites in any biologically meaningful sense. The fact that you don't know that feminism fights against the gender policing of men as well just shows that you don't know much about feminism. We even have a phrase for it (the patriarchy hurts men, too). You might find this collection of essays by feminist men illuminating: http://www.xyonline.net/category/article-content/mens-fathers-rights

First off, there is the laws on the books. Rapist, when proven guilty, are neither treated lightly by our courts or our prisons. I don't know the sentencing guidelines for rape off hand, but its not community service I can assure you. Rapists in prison are one rung above child molestors. They are at the bottom of the pecking order, and suffer physical and psychological abuse at the hands of their fellow inmates daily.

Secondly is cultural. I've seen more men get in fights to protect the honor of a female than just about anything else. If a women is raped, and she has any males in her life that are supportive of her, they will hunt down and beat within inches of his life her rapist before calling the cops, and 9 out of 10 times (figure of speech) the cops will look the other way about the vigilanty justice. Of course I live in the deep South, and we roll a little differently down here. Also, any father, if you were lucky enough to have a father in our age of no-fault divorce, is going to warn his daughters not just about what is on the mind of every young male (sex) but what is also on the minds of some very sociopathic young males (coercion and rape). I would think moms would to, but I hear this speech as coming mostly from the horses mouth, fathers.

Thirdly, education. I remember talking about appropriate and innapropriate behavior in sex-ed classes. Rape was at the top of the list, and so culturally ingrained as being evil, there was hardly a discussion about it. You don't need to teach kids that water is wet. And I went to college in the mid-90's, woo boy, the height of take back the night marches and mandatory rape awareness siminars. There were classes, lecture, flyers, awareness raising events, you name it. It was definantly an anti-rape atmosphere. Antedotely; I was also in a fraternity that got kicked off campus for 5 years for partying and fighting. I never once heard about one of my brothers raping or being accused of raping a girl, and you can't keep a secret about that stuff in a fraternity. We taught our members old fashion virtues of chivalry and respect. Maybe all the other fraternities were the "rape houses", but not ours, the one known as the most rocous, drug fueled, hard partying fraternity of the time. I went to UGA by the way. I also read comic books, majored in art, and graduated Cum Laude, so don't stereotype me as a frat boy. (Not that stereotypes just come from out of thin air, normally there is a grain of truth to them, I just don't fit it)

Fourthly-

Feminism itself. How long have feminsits been around. I would say you're a pretty pervasive aspect of our culture. Surely you've had some impact on the rape awareness situation by now. Don't be so hard on yourselves, why I heard, ya'll have even had some dainty little laws enacted through your political presence. Puhleasse, Feminsts are a huge special interest in our political climate with tons of power and influence, even indirectly through intimidation.
I wouldn't be against feminism if I didn't respect it. It is a worthy foe indeed, with a huge head start. But when it gets back to the cause of true equality, and young men are no longer treated as cannon fodder, wage slaves, future harassers and rapist, and violent neanderthalls whose natural sex drive is shamed and shunned, while also used against them in the dating world and through mass media, then we are on opposing sides of the fence.

And to further clarify, I'm a Democrat who loves Obama, so don't bring the southern thing up, I can't help were I was born, and the south ain't all bad. We hold fast to a few ideals that I'm proud of. I'm also agnostic if I had to label my beliefs in a sentence, so my shit has nothing to do with religion, although religions often tap into universal truths, like the need for stable marriages for a healthy community.

I would summarise by saying, don't stop fighting the bad things men do to women, just stop ignoring all the bad things women and men to do men, when men are taught to just suck it up, and take it like a man. Until now we have been nameless victims without a unified voice, as we spent all our time competing against ourselves to garner female attention and then later support our families, and names...names do have power, and our name is the Male Rights Movement, and Feminism created us, for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. The universe has a way of balancing itself, if I can get meta-physical for the moment. Do you ever think the pendulum has swung to far in your favor?

Okay, I'm captivated--could you describe this culture of rape prevention? What types of anti-rape education programs have I missed? I've been to college. I read newspapers. I haven't lived in a trailer park in years. Please enlighten me about these widespread and highly effective rape prevention techniques.

I'm all ears.

“Suppressing masculinity leads to an eruption of it, maybe even sometimes to rape. Don’t deny our nature to us. If we do not understand it, if we shame it, if we make it something ‘wrong’ and ‘damaged’ we cannot refine and refocus it to benifit our modern society.”

A. You took that statement out of context to slant its connotation. Your clever. Good job.
B. A reason (and a shitty one at that, sorry I didn't make that crystal clear, I forgot that people are looking to use every word I say against me instead of arguing against my broader points) is not a justification or an exuse. Putting words into my mouth is "verbal rape". Don't force me to say things I didn't say.
C. Of the litany of rape justifications you claim I said, I see just one potential one, the one you mentioned. I would say you're exagerating just to smear my character and give yourself the upperhand in the agruement. This is not so clever, just deceitful and unfair.

It appears you're pretty good at twisting words to make people seem like the villian. I bet intelligent women like you would have no problem convincing a jury that a man was an evil rapist even if he was innocent. You're probably smart enough to even convince yourself of many logical fallicies.

"Do you honestly think that our culture tries to prevent rape through its “laws, customs, and education?”

Um, yes, unless you grew up in a athiest/anarchist trailor park commune out in the middle of nowhere and you never went to college or read a newspaper....

I like the attention, but you're analyzing my post a little too closely.

First of all, I write humor, more or less.

Second, if an when you find a post by a woman taking a pro-female stance on gender issues half as long as mine or more and that is anywhere near as internally consistent and logical, let me know and I'll start worrying about fine-tuning my posts. I'm 46 and still waiting to read my first one. One! OK, I'm exaggerating. Maybe there've been three.

The fact is, starting with my initial post in The Balls Monologues, which can be seen by clicking on my name, my intent is to parody. And on gender topics, to parody allows me to be as nonsensical, unreasonable, and extreme as women when it suits my argument.

This is not to say that I am generally nonsensical, unreasonable, or extreme - in fact, I think I'm pretty sensible and reasonable (OK, I can be a little extreme), but I don't fine tune my posts for the slightest inconsistency. Rather, I prefer make the case for guys in the alternative.

Finally, I'll worry about not offending women when women worry about not offending guys. In case you haven't noticed, they love ranting on and insulting us like fat kids loves cake.

Speaking of fat, you wrote about my post, "You didn’t have to put fat women on the spot like that (if you aren’t attracted to fat women that’s fine but this example sounds like by default straight men don’t want to have sex with fat women)."

That's right, Danny, I can't speak for all of us, but it is indeed quite true that, by default, straight guys don't want to have sex with fat women. For that matter, neither do gay guys!

@recursiveparadox:
idiot blah, moron blah, idiot blah blah, idiot

Others:
Shame on men, men are rapists, shame, shame, shame
… but no shaming of sluts (followed by more shaming of men for blaming the victim).

Now... what was I saying about ours being a slut culture, not a rape culture?

1.) I can't honestly think of any justification for falsely accusing someone of raping a woman, man, or anyone else.

2.) This sounds to me like an unusual case, what with the video evidence and whatnot, and those are crappy cases to try to draw any major conclusions from.

Also, am I the only one here who thinks that the entire orgy was disgusting on sanitary grounds? I'm a man, and I use public restrooms all the time. I barely consider them sanitary enough to breath in, much less have sex. If they all enjoyed themselves, more power to them, but they could have picked a better place than a public men's room.

"Here’s what you and all the other guys posting here this entire conversation fail to understand: there is a difference between a reason and an excuse. Rape culture provides a paradigm to understand a woman’s reasons for lying about rape. It doesn’t excuse her. It also provides some reasons why rape is so pervasive, why so many men rape. It doesn’t excuse those men. And the reason why we call it “rape culture” instead of “rapey men” is because everyone is affected, men and women both. Rape culture is perpetuated by parents, by peers, by the media — by every means you can imagine. That’s why it’s a culture, and not a single phenomenon. The concept of rape culture is a tool to understand the paradigm in which individuals operate. It provides reasons. That is NOT the same thing as an excuse, for anyone."

Well miss I do not agree with what you are saying but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it.

What you fail to realize is that the whole "reason" for women lying about rape is not only those that are articulated in the rape culture theory and as it turns out the number of women who lie out of spite, to avoid being caught cheating, and financial gain far outnumber those who lie because of slut shaming.

So as I said I don't agree with the existence of any rape culture. I am all for helping to stop rape. I stated my views on this and don't feel the need to state them again. So I respectfully disagree with you there.

No, that was just about who the legal system acts to protect. You and I both know that men of color are much more vulnerable to the legal system than white men, that's clear in prison and arrest statistics.

" The point is, using a supposed psychological indoctrination to excuse the fact that someone lied out of spite or for financial gain doesn’t make sense to me. Do you care? No why should you?"

Here's what you and all the other guys posting here this entire conversation fail to understand: there is a difference between a reason and an excuse. Rape culture provides a paradigm to understand a woman's reasons for lying about rape. It doesn't excuse her. It also provides some reasons why rape is so pervasive, why so many men rape. It doesn't excuse those men. And the reason why we call it "rape culture" instead of "rapey men" is because everyone is affected, men and women both. Rape culture is perpetuated by parents, by peers, by the media -- by every means you can imagine. That's why it's a culture, and not a single phenomenon. The concept of rape culture is a tool to understand the paradigm in which individuals operate. It provides reasons. That is NOT the same thing as an excuse, for anyone.