Comments on: Vintage Sexism Finds Modern Defenders

By: MuthaMitch

MuthaMitch — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:25:36 +0000

Socialization is they key word that comes to mind when defending these differences. @mdesus: I have plenty of text books that contain articles challenging and generally proving there is no innate difference between men and women in regard to spatial abilities, but they are instead socialized into having interest in those categories, girls are pushed into humanities and boys into mathematics and science, and that there is a pervasive foundation in the education system that upholds this difference under the guise of biological fact. So, therefore it is in a text book and holds just as much weight as what you read in a text book, correct? Social Norms and Social Institutions have agency in everything, including what is in our education system, including " text book history." Which is generally a pretty skewered account of history, when agency is taken into account on how it is presented and re-told. Therefore, you cannot logically use mass produced information that has an inherently sexist bias as a defense that this is the natural state of being. I don't even know how to logically approach the "false rape epidemic" comment, its just too steeped in misogyny to even be taken seriously. I'd like to see some factual basis for this "epidemic", but I think its safe to assume its fictionalized propaganda that has no purpose but to demean rape victims and once again retain men as the normative and neutral sex.

By: Kiapita

Kiapita — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:04:57 +0000

So, mdesus, more of your guy friends know about car care and plumbing than your female friends. Hmmm, do you think this could maybe, just by some off chance, have to do with the fact that someone taught your guy friends about plumbing and car care and no one taught your female friends about it? Like, maybe the guy friends' dads said, "Hey, son, help me change the oil in this motor," when they were kids, whereas it didn't occur to your female friends dads to ask for their help, or their fathers even thought, "Girls aren't mechanically inclined, so I won't show her how to do this because it would just confuse her." Mdesus, there are biological and genetic differences between men and women, but ability to repair a car isn't one of them. And even where there are biological differences - say, most women can get pregnant and men cannot - that doesn't justify the notion that women should be "satisfied with the vote" and give up on being respected within relationships or at work.

By: Mariya

Mariya — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:12:10 +0000

Great post!! I do think that sexism goes both ways, though (and you know that this is true): a man is expected to be assertive and commanding, just as a woman is expected to be flighty and weak.

I believe that men and women can never be completely equal (inherently, we're psychologically and physiologically different), but there should be no reason why men and women are not allowed the same respect, education, opportunities, and compensation. Therein lies the real issue, not in whether we're all going to be changing oil after we watch Steel Magnolias. (I wrote a post of my own about The Funny Side of Sexism here: http://www.pledgeformoms.org/2009/05/16/the-funny-side-of-sexism - my opinions are based solely on observations of popular culture and the media).

Again, great post!

By: Thomas Jones

Thomas Jones — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:51:44 +0000

UserName tjonescnc@yahoo.com
Password hawk578arm647
Date of Birth 10/30/1959
Country USA

By: mdesus

mdesus — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:32:59 +0000

ummm what? False rape epidemic? I'm by most accounts on these boards a sexist. That's just dumb. Of course sexism (as well as racism) exists. Generalized critiques always fail.

By: John D.

John D. — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 05:34:36 +0000

Quit whining. If you go on the internet in search of an excuse to feel like a victim then you'll find it. Grow up; your fragile ego doesn't depend on literally everybody approving of you. Oh -- and what about the women who have falsely accused their husbands of rape? But I'll betcha don't want to talk about the false rape epidemic, do you? Yup, sexism is alive and well. It's called "feminism."

By: mdesus

mdesus — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:18:53 +0000

yeah so you completely missed my point, but that was probably my fault. What I intended to convey is to presume that genetic differences don't count is absurd. There are massive differences between men and women. One of them seems to be that men are more mechanically inclined, and women are more intuitive. Other good anecdotes lie in engineering and the hard sciences. Despite women outnumbering men in university attendance (especially amongst minorities) these fields are still populated by male students. Whereas most every other type of graduate is more likely to be a woman (going along with the general numbers). Men and women are not equal in all things. As for the stats yeah it was a blog comment. I'm not about to look up my sources, but it came from the textbook. Those things are usually pretty accurate.

By: ivagrey

ivagrey — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:32:44 +0000

Based on mdesus's comment, I'd like to proposer another three-part sexist defense strategy! 1. Generalize global principles from your own personal anecdotes. 2. Admit that it may just be your own limited experience talking and then appeal to some generic authority such as your college economics teacher or what "history" has shown us (because history is monolithic and everyone sees it in the same way, right?). 3. Undercut everything you just said by admitting that men and women are equal so you can shield yourself from being called out for what you are: a sexist. If your anecdotes refuting sexism are so important, why don't you give equal credence to feminists' anecdotes (not to mention facts supported by research and literature) that sexism is very real and still alive? These kind of arguments are riddled with logical fallacies and do nothing to further the thoughtful discussion Amanda has started with this post. For shame!

By: mdesus

mdesus — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:30:40 +0000

alright here's the thing, Men and women are different. My real problem with feminism is that it is often used as valid philosophy that eliminates this. I can change the oil on my car, and do basic plumbing. most of my guy friends can do this. I don't know many girls who can claim the same. Why? Men tend to be more mechanically inclined. On the other hand most women I know tend to be much more empathetic, and thus much better with young children. Maybe my sample size is small, but these trends do seem to hold across all of global society (also according to my econometrics professor in uni the tendency of mothers to stay home and raise the kids accounts for almost all of the wage discrepency between men and women. Basically want to get the same pay? Then don't leave work for half a year). From my perspective some classicly imposed "roles" as viewed from the feminist philosophical perspective are biological in nature. While we are more complex than only our biology and occassionally a man may be better at the jobs that require higher degrees of empathy, and women may be more mechanically inclined in general these things are not as simple as imposed social constructs. Women, generally, are better at some things, and men are better than others. History has shown us how various cultures have identified these strengths(usually along eerily similar lines), and the often very natural roles they lead the two sexes to fulfill. Is life bigger than this? sure. We're flexible, and often can conform to fill either role that one gender normally has an advantage for. Basically I'm supporting what Lawrence Summers said, and while not especially aplicable to what you've written I believe it is applicable to the philosophical stance you're taking. Also sorry for my spelling and gramar as I'm hideously hungover.