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	<title>Comments on: Note to Saint-Ex: &#8220;You Guys&#8221; Is Gender-Neutral</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/</link>
	<description>Sex and Gender in D.C.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:24:38 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-15488</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-15488</guid>
		<description>I know it&#039;s inconsistent, but I&#039;m OK with &quot;you guys&quot; as a gender-neutral second-person plural--but I detest the (quite rare) use of &quot;guys&quot; alone in the same function, to address a group of guys and gals. Several options would be much preferred: &quot;y&#039;all&quot; or &quot;you folks&quot; or just plain &quot;you&quot; (with a glance to the whole group).

Common usage is that &quot;guys&quot; is only truly gender-neutral with the &quot;you&quot; before it.

But yeah, that waiter did overreact. If you think you insulted someone, then you should be going out of your way to give them extra service, not ignoring them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it's inconsistent, but I'm OK with "you guys" as a gender-neutral second-person plural--but I detest the (quite rare) use of "guys" alone in the same function, to address a group of guys and gals. Several options would be much preferred: "y'all" or "you folks" or just plain "you" (with a glance to the whole group).</p>
<p>Common usage is that "guys" is only truly gender-neutral with the "you" before it.</p>
<p>But yeah, that waiter did overreact. If you think you insulted someone, then you should be going out of your way to give them extra service, not ignoring them!</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-6198</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 20:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-6198</guid>
		<description>Does an illegitimate contraction precede the birth of a bastard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does an illegitimate contraction precede the birth of a bastard?</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-6185</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 19:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-6185</guid>
		<description>Y&#039;ALL IS A LEGIT CONTRACTION!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Y'ALL IS A LEGIT CONTRACTION!</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Hess</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-6184</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Hess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 19:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-6184</guid>
		<description>Coleman---dude, this guy is starting to make sense to me now. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coleman---dude, this guy is starting to make sense to me now. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-6183</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 18:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-6183</guid>
		<description>I lost a high school debate round once for using &quot;you guys&quot; because my opponents successfully argued it wasn&#039;t gender neutral.

I make an effort to say &quot;you all&quot; instead, which people hear as &quot;y&#039;all&quot;.  Oh well, better to sound dirty south than dirty sexist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lost a high school debate round once for using "you guys" because my opponents successfully argued it wasn't gender neutral.</p>
<p>I make an effort to say "you all" instead, which people hear as "y'all".  Oh well, better to sound dirty south than dirty sexist.</p>
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		<title>By: Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-6177</link>
		<dc:creator>Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 17:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-6177</guid>
		<description>He made a big deal because, historically for heterosexuals, implying that a woman can be mistaken for a dude is an insult. The implication is that you were unfeminine and therefore totally busted.

As you note, the sexist convention is reinforced mostly in the waiter&#039;s effort to apologize for (what he believed was his) mistake.

But I think another power-relation structures this encounter: that of the service employee in the workplace. The waiter&#039;s livelihood depends on achieving good vibes with customers (leading to tips). I can say that when I was a waiter, not all women seemed to think that &quot;guys&quot; was gender neutral. Occasionally I was corrected.

It&#039;s interesting to think back on that job. The trick was to follow the customer&#039;s lead. If women wanted to flirt, I&#039;d flirt. If men wanted to flirt, I tried to project comfort with the gesture. If someone told a really stupid joke, I acknowledged their sense of humor. If people wanted to be left the fuck alone, then I&#039;d try to do that. The last thing you want to do is insult someone. Unfortunately, everyone has different ideas about appropriate speech.

The worst was when you fucked up on the first approach, which is what the waiter believed he did. Ideally, he shouldn&#039;t even have acknowledged (what he believed was his) mistake, modified his speech, and moved on. This whole blog post stems from the awkward apology, but SOMETIMES that apology is expected. You know what I mean, dude?

&quot;You guys&quot; is definitely on its way to gender-neutrality, but maybe the last place that that neutrality will take root is in the alienated encounter of a waiter with a table of strangers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He made a big deal because, historically for heterosexuals, implying that a woman can be mistaken for a dude is an insult. The implication is that you were unfeminine and therefore totally busted.</p>
<p>As you note, the sexist convention is reinforced mostly in the waiter's effort to apologize for (what he believed was his) mistake.</p>
<p>But I think another power-relation structures this encounter: that of the service employee in the workplace. The waiter's livelihood depends on achieving good vibes with customers (leading to tips). I can say that when I was a waiter, not all women seemed to think that "guys" was gender neutral. Occasionally I was corrected.</p>
<p>It's interesting to think back on that job. The trick was to follow the customer's lead. If women wanted to flirt, I'd flirt. If men wanted to flirt, I tried to project comfort with the gesture. If someone told a really stupid joke, I acknowledged their sense of humor. If people wanted to be left the fuck alone, then I'd try to do that. The last thing you want to do is insult someone. Unfortunately, everyone has different ideas about appropriate speech.</p>
<p>The worst was when you fucked up on the first approach, which is what the waiter believed he did. Ideally, he shouldn't even have acknowledged (what he believed was his) mistake, modified his speech, and moved on. This whole blog post stems from the awkward apology, but SOMETIMES that apology is expected. You know what I mean, dude?</p>
<p>"You guys" is definitely on its way to gender-neutrality, but maybe the last place that that neutrality will take root is in the alienated encounter of a waiter with a table of strangers.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Hess</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-6165</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Hess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 15:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-6165</guid>
		<description>why did he make a big deal out of it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why did he make a big deal out of it!</p>
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		<title>By: mdesus</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/05/04/note-to-saint-ex-you-guys-is-gender-neutral/comment-page-1/#comment-6164</link>
		<dc:creator>mdesus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 15:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/?p=3836#comment-6164</guid>
		<description>hey dude, how about you chill out with the rhetoric here.  I mean, man, this wasn&#039;t even a big deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey dude, how about you chill out with the rhetoric here.  I mean, man, this wasn't even a big deal.</p>
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