The Sexist

Menace to Sorority


Alston-Smith's sorority sisters had a pronoun problem.

From the time that Devin Alston-Smith became involved in George Washington University's Zeta Phi Beta sorority, he made it clear that he was not your typical sorority sister. In spring 2008, Alston-Smith began what Zetas refer to as the "intake process." He knew his sisters would have a lot to take in: He asked them to call him Devin instead of his legal name, Chanise. He told them he preferred male pronouns—"he" and "his" instead of "she" and "her." At sorority events, he wore a button-down shirt and tie and a fedora over his long dreadlocked hair.

The sorority's sisters were initially welcoming, friendly, and confused. At the initiation ceremony, all sisters were required to dress in head-to-toe white. Alston-Smith had white pants, shirt, and tie, but he didn't have any white shoes, so one Zeta offered to buy him a pair. He told her he wore men's shoes, size 6½. She returned with white women's flats. "I tried to get a low heel," the Zeta explained.

"That's when I sort of knew that they didn't really get it," says Alston-Smith. He wore the women's shoes anyway, the flats uncomfortable on his feet. "I felt degraded, like I was dressing in drag or something," he says. "I know that all my signifiers, except for my clothes, indicate that I'm female. So I try to be really understanding."

Alston-Smith had never intended to become anybody's sister. "I was anti-sorority for a long time," says Alston-Smith. "Then I joined Zeta." During his sophomore year, Alston-Smith kept running into one senior Zeta around campus. She told him, "I'm a Zeta. You should come to our events and check us out," he says. He did, and the historically black sorority's commitment to "Service, Scholarship, Sisterhood, and Finer Womanhood" surprised Alston-Smith—he actually liked it. He had trouble getting his sisters to refer to him consistently with male pronouns, or truly understand what it meant to be transgender, but he knew they were making an effort. Only one Zeta, junior Vanessa White, appeared visibly uncomfortable with Alston-Smith's presence. "A lot of the members were really nice and open individuals," he says. "I felt like they were the most open sorority on campus."

That spring, Zeta Phi Beta extended Alston-Smith an offer of membership into the sorority. At his campus debut as a Zeta, which the sorority calls a "coming out show," Smith and his fellow inductee, or "line sister," Shauna Butler, performed a step routine the two had choreographed for the audience. This time, the wardrobe was Alston-Smith's choosing, down to the blue-and-white Converse shoes. The routine ended with Alston-Smith's official "unveiling" in front of his fellow sisters, the sorority's graduate chapter, his friends, and his mom. At the big reveal, the sorority president pulled the tape off of Alston-Smith's backward hat, exposing the nickname his sisters had chosen for him: "The Liberator."

Zeta Phi Beta, for all its inclusiveness, maintains a small presence at GW. The seniors who had welcomed Alston-Smith into Zeta's fold graduated and moved on in May of 2008, leaving only four members: Alston-Smith, White, Butler, and Akilah Bledsoe. White had been elected chapter president. Alston-Smith hadn't voted for her.

Over the summer, the sisters hung out regularly as friends, eating lunch together or planning step routines for the fall semester. During one choreography session for a sorority "Step and Stroll," Alston-Smith saw how his new sorority sisters' discomfort with his gender identity would be enforced. "We were learning new steps from an older [sister], and I was doing the moves differently," says Alston-Smith. "One of the routines was to a Beyoncé song, ["Get Me Bodied"] and it involved a lot of feminine gestures. I was just tweaking them so I didn't have to bend over really sexy, stuff like that," he says. "They told me I had to do it—that we were going to look stupid if I didn't." Alston-Smith stopped dancing. "I'm not going to pop it like a girl," he told them. According to Alston-Smith, they shot back: "You are a girl. You have to stop acting like a boy."

It continued that way throughout the summer—friendly interactions would inevitably devolve into critiques of Alston-Smith's clothes, his dance moves, "the way he was." Gender pronouns were a particularly sore spot. "At first, everyone seemed accepting, and it seemed like it was something that they would work on," says Alston-Smith. By the time the administration change was complete, it became clear that the resistance was more than just confusion. "I tried to compromise, because Vanessa says she doesn't feel it's morally right to call me by the male pronoun," says Alston-Smith. "I said, 'OK—don't call me by any pronoun. Just refer to 'Devin' whenever you speak about me.' But she just didn't want to budge."

When classes reconvened for the fall, it was time to show off all the summer sorority planning. Zeta's first event of the fall semester was called "Sweetest Selections," an evening where community members could learn about famous Zetas and munch on refreshments—"pastries and things like that," says Alston-Smith. As preparation, Alston-Smith read up on his chosen Zeta: Harlem Renaissance writer Zora Neale Hurston. "She was a Zeta, but she was an outside-the-box Zeta," says Alston-Smith. "She hung out with a bunch of GLBT people. She was a visionary for her time."

White did some preparations of her own to make sure Alston-Smith didn't appear too outside-the-box. Before the event, Alston-Smith says, she called to inform him that his men's shoes would not be making an appearance. Instead, he was free to borrow another sister's dress shoes—a "girl's sort of shoe." When Alston-Smith declined, he says White raised her voice, telling him that the sisters "have to look a certain way" because "interests," or potential members, would be in attendance, and he wouldn't want to "confuse them." "She was screaming," says Alston-Smith. "I couldn't get a word in." According to Alston-Smith, he broke into tears, and White hung up.

That freed the phone line for another sister, Bledsoe, to call Alston-Smith. "If you wear my shoes, then I'm gonna have to wear some shoes that I don't like, and they're gonna hurt my feet," Alston-Smith recalls Bledsoe saying. "Get in line," she told him, suggesting he buy his own sorority-appropriate shoes. According to Alston-Smith, Bledsoe then said she'd have to get off the phone before she was forced to say something that would hurt his feelings, and hung up.

Bledsoe's feet were spared. At that point, Alston-Smith wasn't too interested in slipping on another pair of women's shoes, or regaling potential members with tales of great Zetas. Alston-Smith proved a no-show at the event, and the sorority's graduate chapter placed one more call for good measure. "They told me that no matter what, I should have gone to the event," says Alston-Smith.

The other sorority sisters spent the next few functions avoiding Alston-Smith completely. At one event, Alston-Smith stood by as White chatted up an "interest," repeatedly referring to Alston-Smith with female pronouns in the process. "It was smug, the way she did it," he says. "I gave her this look, like, What are you doing?" he says. After Alston-Smith corrected White in front of the interest, White pulled Alston-Smith aside and berated him for making the sorority look bad, he says. "Again, she said I was confusing them. She said, 'Don't do that. They're going to think that men can join us.'"

Only a month into the new semester, White notified the sorority's graduate chapter of the Zeta Phi Beta infighting and scheduled a meeting. Alston-Smith was prepared to talk about what he considered the sisters' ongoing harassment and sent an e-mail to both chapters again explaining his pronoun preference and his choice's protection under the D.C. Human Rights Act. White was prepared to talk about Alston-Smith's repeated failure to cooperate. The sisters would be joined by advisers from the graduate chapter, including former graduate chapter president Yvette Jardine, an older professional who had been a Zeta since she was an undergraduate. "I was warned about her before I even met her," says Alston-Smith. "She has a really firm belief system about what it means to be a Zeta."

Alston-Smith came prepared for the meeting with pamphlets discussing basic GLBT and transgender issues. "They didn't touch the handouts," Alston-Smith says—Jardine wanted to do the talking. "She started saying that what I am didn't fit into the mold of Zeta," he says. "She told me that I should have known not to accept the membership. She said, 'It's an organization for women,' and that they have a certain model for 'woman' that's supposed to be a part of the organization." When Alston-Smith told Jardine that continued harassment from the sisters could force the university to "take Zeta off of campus," Alston-Smith says that Jardine responded, "Well, maybe we don't want to be on this campus." She then asked Alston-Smith repeatedly if he intended to pursue legal action.

When the sisters disbanded for a break, Alston-Smith and Jardine walked silently to the restrooms. Jardine entered the women's bathroom; Alston-Smith used the men's. When the sisters reconvened, Alston-Smith says, Jardine outed his bathroom habits. "Look, she went to the men's bathroom," Jardine said. The meeting was over.

Jardine says she can't recall the specifics of the meeting, but says she would never wish the sorority off campus.

A week later, Alston-Smith received a letter stating that his Zeta Phi Beta membership had been deemed "inactive." Alston-Smith was disqualified on less controversial sorority business: He had failed to turn in a transcript on time.

Alston-Smith's place in Zeta Phi Beta is protected by a peculiar nexus of federal, District, and GW code. Federal law and GW's Statement of Student Rights and Responsibilities allow social fraternal organizations to discriminate on the basis of sex. The D.C. Human Rights Act, however, prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender identity. So while a female-born trans student, like Alston-Smith, could conceivably be legally barred from participating in an all-male fraternity, the law protects him against discrimination from a female sorority—even though his gender identity is incongruous with the traditional definition of "sisterhood."

Despite the legal back-up, when Alston-Smith brought his grievances to university police and administrators, he found he was navigating uncharted terrain. While GW's rights and responsibilities statement promises that the university does not permit discrimination based on "sexual orientation or identity," the Code of Student Conduct—a document that actually disciplines students for breaking that promise—includes no such language protecting transgender students.

University spokesperson Tracy Schario says the policy still covers trans students, as the university incorporates the D.C. Human Rights Act's gender identity protection into its own. But the absence of the phrase "gender identity" can complicate the procedure of filing a discrimination claim with the university. As Alston-Smith's grievance claim ascended the administrative ranks, he says he was told that a similar claim had never been presented to the university, that there wasn't a clear category for that form of harassment, and that the university protected sorority sex discrimination. (Alston-Smith's grievance claim is still being processed by the university).

GW's Zeta Phi Beta undergraduate sorority members did not return requests for comment. In an interview with GW Hatchet Staff Writers Alli Hoff and Emily Cahn, White denied the harassment—while employing the female pronoun. "[Alston-Smith] chose not to participate by not turning in that transcript.…She made it clear she wanted nothing to do with us." In an e-mail, Jardine seconded the denial. "The undergraduate chapter members knew that Devin/Chanise identified as a lesbian prior to joining," Jardine wrote. "Devin/Chanise is not the first lesbian member of the organization. Zeta does not discriminate." Even when sorority members continue to refer to Devin with female pronouns, Jardine says, it's not harassment. "You try to remember, but sometimes you slip up. This is new territory for our sorority."

When Alston-Smith stopped attending sorority events, he withdrew from other parts of his life as well. He began to skip classes. Instead, he would hole up, crying, in his dorm room. As the fall semester neared its end, he decided he couldn't come back—he would take a leave of absence and spend the spring semester at home, in Connecticut. Before Alston-Smith left, he gathered all his Zeta paraphernalia and destroyed it. He ripped apart his letter jacket and scratched out the Zeta Phi Beta emblem on the sorority plaque. He smashed his paddle and tore up the keepsake boxes gifted to him by former sisters. He gathered the blue-and-white mess and placed it in a trash bag. On top, he wrote a note: "You took the liberty of ruining things for me. Now I am returning them to you. All my best, Devin." He left the bag on White's doorstep.

Jardine called the gesture a "vicious act of violence." Zeta Phi Beta has filed a complaint against Alston-Smith with the university.

"It wasn't a violent or a vicious act. It was a final cry of submission," says Alston-Smith. "At that point, I had given up."

Photo courtesy Devin Alston-Smith

Comments

  1. #1

    I'm confused. Does Alston-Smith wish to live life as a man or a woman? I'll admit I was never one for the Greek life, but this situation strikes me as more a cry for attention than anything else. Does a transgender deserve the right to join a sorority? Yes. But if the transgender is FtoM, why would they want to? It's not masculine.

  2. #2

    I find it really difficult to believe that you can "forget" which gender pronoun to use to refer to someone when that person has identified as male the entire time you've known him -- and has always protested the use of "she" or "her." It's not an issue of "newness" when you've been interacting with someone frequently for over a year. It's a conscious choice to deny that person their identity, and in a situation like this, it's a pretty clear indication of active intolerance. Kind of like when someone insists on calling a blueblood "white" even after they know the person identifies as black, no?

  3. #3

    I am just as confused as Nikki. If Alston-Smith looked at the sorority, didn't she have to make a decision that she wanted to join? If one of the commitments was finer womanhood, and Alston-Smith was not OK with that, why did she go ahead with joining? If she knew that she wanted identify as male, why not try a fraternity?

    I think she's just as confused as they were.

  4. #4

    If Devin wants to live life as a man, then Devin has no business joining a sorority because men cannot join sororities.

  5. #5

    As a member of this sorority... We pride ourselves on SISTERhood and FinerWOMANhood... obviously this is what attracted this person to want to pursue membership.... if you want to be a man, fine, if you want to do make things... perfect, but to ask a group of woman to facilitate that is ridiculous. Lisa is right, this person should have tried to join a fraternity. Where they could be themselves and no have to bend or compromise personal values. This person knew from the get-go this was not the right way to go.... this is a organization for women for the betterment of all... I think this person used Zeta as an out. Went were someone was tolerant.

  6. #6

    I don't feel confused. He knew he wouldn't get into a fraternity but wanted in something. The sisters were friendly and welcoming at first. He probably thought they would bend the "finer womanhood" rules in his case..not far fetched with understanding people. He probably also knew that if they tried to throw the book at him they'd win, but he didn't want it to come to that. Maybe was a bad call and too big of a gamble (to join). Plus sororities are lame. Good luck to Devin and transcripts bitch McGhee.

  7. #7

    I think there are two issues at play here. One is, undeniably, whether Alston-Smith should have been in the sorority at all. However, that's a question that should have been settled before he joined -- between him and the sorority. From the sounds of things, not only did he choose to join, the sorority rushed him (its members encouraged him to join) and welcomed him KNOWING that he identified as a man. So, the sorority chose to bend the rules in that case.

    The second question is whether the incidents that subsequently took place between Alston-Smith and other members of the sorority constitutes harrassment and illegal discrimination. I think this article makes a fair case that members of the sorority did harrass him: 1) they continually referred to Alston-Smith as "she" even though he repeatedly asked them not to; 2) they asked him to behave and dress in feminine ways even when he made it clear he did not wish to; 3) they acted ashamed of his gender identity and misrepresented it to other people; and 4) they repeatedly verbally berated him for behaving in ways consistent with his gender identity.

    Just because this stuff happened inside a sorority doesn't make it any less illegal.

  8. #8

    Has anyone read and noticed that this is a very one-sided article. There is no comment from the members at the university...therefore it is difficult to ascertain as to what is fact, what is fiction, and what is opinion...and opinions are subjective. And as sororities are secreative, did they have a conversation with Devin regarding expected behavior? Who knows what was discussed.

    Having said that, why is it that one must suspend their moral beliefs to accomodate someone who is undecided as to what they want to call themselves. Devin looks like a woman, acts like a woman, pees like a woman, bleeds like a woman, and if you look like a woman, cry like a woman and whine like a woman...but want to be called a man...MAN UP DEVIN!! You are still a woman acting like a woman...she still bleeds like a woman, has physical traits of a woman, and clearly wants to affilate with women hence "her" desire, decision to become a member of a sorority. Devin clearly hasn't made up her/his mind. This was a stunt to get attention that is all.

    Talk to me after you become a man....and what man is in a sorority...it defies all reason... a sorority according to Merriam Webster comes from the Medieval Latin word sororitas or sisterhood, from Latin soror sister, and it means a club of women; specifically : a women's student organization formed chiefly for social purposes and having a name consisting of Greek letters. a SOCIAL WOMEN'S CLUB, why the hell would DEVIN who identifies with being a man want to join a women's social club...oh wait...cause she/he doesn't know who/what he/she is... This is the DUMBEST article and subject matter ever written...oh wait...and I am dumb for wasting my time reading and responding to it. Devin grow the fuck up..be a MAN if that's what you are trying to be and stop hiding behind some silly bs...you clearly joined this organziation for the wrong reasons...or perhaps not...to make a statement for transgenderness...can't be that because you look really foolish.

  9. #9

    I believe the gender theory subscribed to by those in the GLBT community is that gender is not a dichotomy but rather a sliding scale, where a person can be more feminine or less, but not just one or the other. That's how Devin would prefer to dress and use the same pronouns as a male, but still feel some kinship and enjoy the company of women.

    Devin would likely not have joind the sorority if he had not felt that the older sisters welcomed him and accepted him. It was a choice perhaps not everyone would have made, but the choice, according to DC law, was his to make.

  10. #10

    GW hit the nail on the head.
    Most who have left their comments here seem to be small minded, closed and ignorant-just as the sorority sisters who made Devin feel out of place are. I noticed a few have continued to refer to Devin with a female pronoun, proving a lack of education and human feeling.
    Those who think that Devin has no place in a sorority likely still think the world is flat, that women should not wear pants, and that men shouldn't have their ears pierced.
    Your idea of social norms and gender perceptions are outdated. If we are to move forward as a human race, we need to be more tolerant of other people. Everyone has their comfort zones, personal preferences and identities. Gender and genitals are not synonymous terms.

  11. #11

    I have to agree with the "small-minded" ones here...Devin doesn't have a place in the sorority. How about Devin making them feel out of place...why is it that if a person chooses not to acknowledge a person's gender preference...because of religious beliefs or social norms that person is considered to be small-minded and ignorant. Yes everyone has their comfort zone, too bad you see that allowance only for Devin. Perhaps the sorority sisters thought they could do and be open minded, and then couldn't because their comfort zone, personal preferences and identities couldn't/wouldn't allow them to..so they are wrong? Gee how small minded of you. Tolerance goes both ways.

    As a member of a sorority, in my opine, if Devin were solely interested in BEING a member she/he wouldn't have forced the sisters to choose him/her over the sorority. If they choose to stand for the sorority's principles then they must be wrong and intolerant. Devin in my opinion seems to be the intolerant one - accept me the ONLY way I want you to accept me or suffer the consequences. Devin made a conscious decision to be a square peg in a round hole...didn't quite fit. Devin made the decision to join..he/she didn't have to.

  12. #12

    GF- you give sorority sisters a bad name. Yes, you are small-minded. And just because you're self-aware doesn't make it ok. You talk about tolerance but you showed you're kinda an asshole: Devin is a HE and no amount of you writing "she/he" is going to change what he believes he is and how he lives his life. It's passive agressive and annoying.

    Yes, he identifies more male, but that doesn't mean he also doesn't still identify as a lesbian in some ways. This whole story is so dumb. THEY approached HIM for christ's sake.

    And hells yeah to those cool, older Zetas that were open-minded in the first place.

  13. #13

    Okay, as a former member of sorority, it is typical during rush to be expected to dress a certain way. You are trying to gain new members and to many sororities it is important to have a good appearance. I, along with all the other members, were expected to dress nicely along with the appropriate shoes, so heels or nice flats. Everyone did this, including the people who tended to dress more masculine. Sororities are bastions of femininity and sisterhood - if you're in one, you should expect that. There are always going to tons of rules in a sorority, and if you can't handle that, then don't be in one (case in point: me). Honestly, if one identifies more a male, why on earth would you want to be in a sorority?

  14. #14

    As a member of the GLBTQ community and well versed in gender theory (and queer theory for you Wilchins fans out there), I, for the most part, agree with the 'small minded' ones. Although I don't think we can accurately speculate on Devin's motivations, this does look like more of a case intended for political controversy rather than a genuine desire to stay in an organization that rejected him. Just like an organization intended for transgendered males does not want those who are not trans males attending their meetings, sororities have the right to not want a person who identifies as male in their organization when they are an all female group. However, it sounds like the sorority genuinely did not know that Devin intended to transition to being male; it looks more like Devin made the final decision on his transition while he was already in the sorority, and when he joined, he was probably unsure if he would transition. Once recognizing that he was male, he should have sat down and had a discussion with the sorority leaders and decided what the appropriate choice was in order to do what's best for all parties involved. If the sisters who made him feel comfortable graduated, then where was the incentive to stay in a group for kinship? Staying was a move to buck the system. I don't agree some of the harsher mudslinging above, but this is a one-sided article plagued by hearsay and this situation is clearly much more complicated than the article conveys.

    Good luck.

  15. #15

    Reading this article gave me a headache. I blame the women of Zeta for letting a Lesbian join their sorority who wanted to be called a he, him, man. I can't imagine a Drag Queen, Transgender, or a man who refers to himself as a woman wanting to join Kappa Alpha Psi,Inc., Omega Psi Phi, Inc., Alpha Phi Alpha, Inc., ect. Sure there are probably gay men in this fraternity, but I don't know of any dressing like a woman. This world is coming to an end soon.

  16. #16

    Ok Devin is transgendered and would like to live life as a man. He is not confused those women in his soriority diliberataly disrepected himon his wishes to be called Devin or he or say his. If you read the article he cannot join a fraturnity and be a frat boy. They basically wanted him to be wat they wanted him to be so they are confortable with themselves. If they don't discriminate then why are they even after a yr of associating and knowing him still calling him she her or by his birthname?

  17. #17

    Reading this article gave me a headache. I blame the women of Zeta for letting a Lesbian join their sorority who wanted to be called a he, him, man. I can’t imagine a Drag Queen, Transgender, or a man who refers to himself as a woman wanting to join Kappa Alpha Psi,Inc., Omega Psi Phi, Inc., Alpha Phi Alpha, Inc., ect. Sure there are probably gay men in these fraternities, but I don’t know of any dressing like a woman. This world is coming to an end soon.

    As a man, what in the heck would I look like trying to join AKA or Delta Sigma Theta? These are female sororities for women only. As a Kappa, I can imagine a man dressing up as a woman wanted to pledge Kappa undergraduate. First of all, the freak would even be considered.

  18. #18

    I blame the young women Zeta's for accepting this person into their sorority knowing it looked, acted, and wanted to be called a him. These soroity women need to seek some mental health counseling for accepting this he/she as a Soror.

  19. #19

    Not a gender thing but when presenting an idenity you NEED to be CONSTANT. You just confuse people when you switch, because you are no so important in other people's world that they need to keep track of this or that aspect of your life.
    So when you present yourself to new friends do not confuse them by having your old idenity around. That is the lesson I learned when changing my name. When they call you by the proper ID that you have chosen as a matter of habit, then and only then do you inform them of your old ID.
    Devin's problem is that he's young and assumed everyone could say on top of his sliding scale of gender idenity. Call me small minded but you pick an idenity and you stick with it.

  20. #20

    In a sane world - this guy who not have had to join a sorority, but would have been welcomed in a fraternity.

    Had he made the decision to transition while in a sorority, then in a sane world, there would have been a corresponding fraternity he could have migrated to when the time was ripe, with hugs on leaving, and manly handshakes on joining.

    In a sane world, there would even have been a Greek society for those few who identify as neither male nor female. They are a tiny minority, but they exist. And some are Intersexed so severely that no-one, not even the most hidebound fundamentalist religious fanatic, could say that they were wrong so to identify. Most IS people identify as men or women, not both, not neither, but some do. As do some who aren't IS, but Transgendered.

    Perhaps not in this case, but in general, it's not the Transsexual people who are confused about their gender: it's others who don't understand the neurobiology involved.

  21. #21

    The person in question doesn't want to commit to one identity. Devin wants to keep a foot in each world. All that's going to do is confuse people. I'm transgendered, and I don't buy the argument that if you fall somewhere between the binary genders that everyone has to accept you and adjust their life to yours. I know people who are old enough to know better who do that...they're annoying. Sorry, but society isn't going to adapt to you. It's one...or the other.
    All that will do is confuse people, and alienate those who would likely be fine with you if they knew which gender you were striving to be. And that's a rough life to live.

  22. #22

    For those who are confusing Devin to be a bio male who wants to be a female it's not the case. He is transitioning into male. FD I love ur comment bout Devin good for you for sticking up for him their needs to be more ppl out there like you. Made me laugh at wat you said b/c you are rite 100% and for calling those small minded ppl assholes. I myself identify myself as male and not a freak or confused. You ppl need to understand that he is a human being who just wants to be who he identifies with.

  23. #23

    Since there were only 4 members of Zeta on campus the year semester after Devin pledged, they were probably desperate for members and accepted anyone. This is a complex issue but Zeta probably should not have admitted Devin. The leaders at the time of the GW chapter had to know Devin's transgender nature would cause problems.

  24. #24

    ALSO YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING HE AINT STICKING TO ONE GENDER THAT'S A CROCK OF SHIT. One the sisters MADE HIM wear the women's clothes ect..to make themselves comfortable with him since he is in a female body and should act as such. He didn't want to wear those clothes he didn't want to be treated as a female. He told them from day one who he was and how to address him. So you all who are calling him a he/she and also shame on you Nikki since you claim you trans you don't have any rite to be bashing on Devin like that. You of all these ppl on here should know and understand the struggle and difficulties trans ppl go threw. If anything your just as bad if not worse than these small minded biggots in this comment page you mite as well join them in calling him a freak.

  25. #25

    Wow. Dude has some serious issues. I predict lawsuits all around. And what an amazingly one-sided and biased article. Typical City Paper ramblings. What a shame how far this once-great paper has fallen in its lame attempt to be cool and cutting edge.

  26. #26

    I don't have anything against lesbians or gays, but why in the hell are you all referring to a woman with a vagina? I don't care how butch this woman acts, she is still a woman, not a dam man. She will never have a penis and will be able to produce semen to get a female pregnant. She is a freak aganst God's law and she will be held accountable for her actions in death.

  27. #27

    I don’t have anything against lesbians or gays, but why in the hell are you all referring to a woman with a vagina as a he or him? I don’t care how butch this woman acts, she is still a woman, not a dam man. She will never have a penis and will be able to produce semen to get a female pregnant. She is a freak aganst God’s law and she will be held accountable for her actions in death.

  28. #28

    I blame those young women of Zeta Phi Beta for allowing this freak who identify with being a man into their Sorority. They too should be kicked out of the Sorority, because I blame them for all this unnecessary confusion, not the he/she/it.

  29. #29

    Im not sure who is to blame... i do think that the ladies shouldn't have accepted him/her but I don't think him/her or the sorority knew it was going to cause as much confusion as it did. If it was that important for him/her to join a sorority he/she should have joined a lesbian/gay sorority. They do have them out there. If he/she did im sure his/her experience would have been much better.

  30. #30

    In response to Zoe: there is a fraternity that would be accepting of Devin. APO is a co-ed national service fraternity (not social). It has all the history and brotherhood of a social frat - just no houses. I've found APO to be open and accepting of everyone - regardless of gender. Some of my favorite brothers were women and the only time my sexuality was an issue was when brothers stood up in support of me against non-brothers.

  31. #31

    How come people use terms like Moral beliefs, and religion to justify bigotry when the Tahlmud and Old Testament clearly note five genders. The New Testament (Matt 19:11-12) clearly recognizes more than two. The GLBT community, science and the Bible (Ps 139:14-15) all agree that who we are is something set close to conception. Weeks before physical sex is determined if it is ever. Trans and intersex individuals have a hard enough time trying to fit into the fictional gender binary as it is. One in 1500 children are born with a intersex condition and only 4 or 5 of 170 known conditions are readily visible at birth. There are thousands of children that do not fit in either the pink or blue blanket, the M or F checkbox. They live in fear of hate crimes, violence, and rejection. So they pretend to fit in. It is insulting to have people claim moral high ground at the same time as they violate the published doctrine of their own faiths. If you are going to claim moral beliefs justifying non-acceptance of transgendered individuals you need to read your bible more. I would recommend going back to the Aramaic or ancient Greek to avoid some translational difficulties with the only two verses that appear on the surface to condemn trans individuals. When properly translated they do not.

    Persian law, Summarian law, and Roman law all had provisions for Transgender people ranging from inheritance to parental responsibility and how the person would be treated. Why is America who prides itself on being leaders of the free world unable to see the truth before them that people simply are what they are and many of us are not free to be ourselves.

  32. #32

    If DEVIN wanted to be a man then a sorority wasn't the place for "him". "He" should have looked into joining a frat. SMH...so sad.

  33. #33

    This is an unusual story. I don't understand why he would want to be part of a sorority anyway when he identifies himself as a man. If you want to be a man then hang out with men doing guy things. Or just be yourself outside of an organized group and befriend "normal" people who'll accept you for who you are. There's always bound to be stupidity in large groups of girls.

  34. #34

    This article does not tell the whole story and slants certain "facts" to make Devin appear to be a martyr, when in reality Devin is not wholly without blame and is NOT the victim. This article is very one sided, and that is a fact!
    Based upon the DIRECT quotes from the Zetas in this article, they appear to be stating objective reasons for Devins' inactive status with the sorority (as far as grade reports, and Devin shredding gifts). Obviously the transcript requirement was a black and white rule, and Devin didn't adhere to it. As a matter of fact, Devin never reported his grades and THEN withdrew from school! Devin was wrong for joining a sorority whose principle is "Finer Womanhood" and expecting those who have been members for 50+ years to be immediately accepting and understanding of the Devin's ever changing requests.

  35. #35

    I am so ashamed to share even the human race with most of you. The closed minded nature of you bible thumpers like chris is ridiculous! Did you ever actually read the bible? I am pretty sure the amount of hate you expressed in your response would put you in hell faster than someone who loves.

    I am a member of a sorority. I am a cheerleader. I am a soldier. I am queer. I identify as female but perform male gender. That makes me a little bit trans gendered. My sorority not only would have accepted devin, he could have run for an executive office and taken a little.

    There's a plce for everyone. My mother is a sigma gamma Rho. My trans friend is not only a SISTER of the same house, but a brother, too. A WHITE brother.

    The only people at fault are the Zetas. And i'm ashamed that they identify as women. Forgiveness and openminded-ness are traits that I consider to be necessary to be human. What the hell are you?

  36. #36

    I just want to thank jp for not bashing either side and really reading the article all the way through. If you read carefully, it was stated that the members only knew of Devin's being a lesbian and that it was not until he was in the sorority that he began requesting to be deemed masculine. I think it is unfortunate, that he was discriminated against, but I also think it is unfortunate that the sorority, because of its accepting values had to be brought under so much scrutiny. I think it would be best in the future for both parties to do extensive research on the things they are getting into, as much of this dramatic episode would not have even been necessary. As a member of this sorority, I do believe it is made for women, and had Devin just identified as a lesbian there would be no issue (Zora Neal Hurston is a great example), however, it is a great compromise when someone who wishes to be identified as a male forces the sorority to accomodate to his masculinity despite the founding principles that they hold most dear. I am ashamed if the claims of blantant discrimination are indeed true, and hope that my sorors can rectify the situation in a manner that displays what we so proudly boast of as FINER WOMANHOOD.

  37. #37

    And lastly, the Zetas excuses are bull. If they desired to keep Devin, they would have worked with him. Instead they used a pathetic reason. There's a reason I don't know you personally, nikkolaus. I couldn't deal with you. I wouldn't. That's an educated CHOICE I'm making. Hope you get educated before it bites you inyour 4th point of contact. That would be your ASS.

  38. #38

    I'm so proud of Devin for standing up for his beliefs. He had every right to join the sorority if he chose to do so. Devin has always been a trailblazer and I am nothing if not more proud of him for enduring this cruelty by others with poise and grace, which it seems to me the other women have not shown.

  39. #39

    Ashley: You don't know what the Zetas rules concerning "inactive" status and grades are, so maybe there is no provision for working with someone whose grades aren't up to par. You make a lot of assumptions. For example, how would you propose the Zetas at GWU work with Devin and his grades if he left the campus?

    Don't lash out at me. I am merely stating the facts as they read without dealing with the EXTRA in the article. I am very educated and close to ALL of the issues addressed in this article. So you have made several assumptions about ME, which completely contradicts your previous statements regarding passing judgment. Unlike you, Ashley, I don't feel the need to run around with a hatchet chopping others down without asking IMPORTANT questions first. I see you blaming the LOT of Zetas for the ALLEGED actions of a few Zetas. Another improper and quite judgmental assumption, which AGAIN runs contrary to your grandstanding earlier. Look at yourself before you attack me, SISTER. And get that chip off of you shoulder. It is impeding your growth and progress as a HUMAN being.

  40. #40

    This is the most ridiculous piece of crap I have ever read. Why in the hell would the women of Zeta let a woman who thinks of herself as a man into their sorority? I blame Zeta Phi Theta, Inc. for creating this mess.

  41. #41

    Whole lotta judging going on in some of these comments. Almost as much as was going on at the GW Zeta chapter. People who live their lives with no internal conflict about their gender identity or about their sexuality should thank their lucky stars every day that that's the case, because that's all it is: luck. Walk a mile in a man's shoes, before you get up on your high horse and decide that based on *your* values, that man ought to behave like a woman.

  42. #42

    Ok SOROR!
    There are of course many homosexuals in Fraternities and lesbions in Sororities. But they dont want to be of the opposite sex! I am in a Fraternity cause i am a MAN, although i am gay. If i did not want to participate in masculine or frat "like" activities then i would have not chosen to join a frat! What would i look like coming to a step show with some fierce blue heels on instead of those (ugly) blue boots we wear? CRAZY is how i would look! And i would not want to rep my Frat in that way! There for i do not blame my Zeta Sisters for wanting her to put some damn heels on to represent them at the step show! Check it sister, after the show just take them heels off and but on some Nike's..its just that simple!

  43. #43

    I dont want to judge anyone, but it just seems ass backwards to me to want to join a sorority if you want to be considered a man! You know what she couldnt join a fraternity, BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE! She should have joined one of those GLBT frarotiies and there would have been no problems! Maybe she can start one so that nobody else goes thru this.. im sure its hard when your already fighting you inner demons!

  44. #44

    Delta Soror -

    How about you get the name of our sorority right before you start throwing out comments...It is ZETA PHI BETA! Thanks.

  45. #45

    From Alston-Smith's own admission it wasn’t until during the intake process that she wanted to be referred to as “he,” meaning she was fine with the usage of female pronouns prior to her interest in Zeta. (Hole #1). Secondly, if Alston-Smith was that concerned about the members not calling her by male pronouns why did she proceed to join the sorority? From what I read, Alston-Smith was not forced into the sorority, it was a choice Alston-Smith willingly made (Hole #2). Thirdly, Alston-Smith cited harassment because the sorority members did not use male pronouns...Alston-Smith is just as guilty of harassment for leaving a black trash bag of items on the front doorstep of a member. (Hole #3). Let's be real, an unattended trash bag left on anybody’s doorstep is enough to shut down buildings and streets for hours on end. Harassment, I don't think so! Alston-Smith sounds like a bitter pseudo-martyr trying to prove a point.

  46. #46

    Sorry Miss A Zeta Says, because you went the wrong way. OPP OPP

  47. #47

    I think people don't understand that Devin IS male. Being transgender isn't about *wanting* to be the opposite sex. Their bodies betrayed them and they are males stuck in female bodies and females stuck in male bodies. I'm one of Devin's friends. I love him to death and I used to see him on a everyday basis until he took his leave this semester. This whole situation is so hurtful and the sorority is at fault here. They knew when Devin joined that he wanted male pronouns and they knew about him being trans. Devin made it clear that he was trans and they allowed him in the sorority anyway. Devin has every right to take legal action, if it comes to that, and to be upset.

  48. #48

    Delta Soror...OPP OPP...?

    yeeeeeeeeeeeeah

    Devin seems to be extremely selfish, and I hope that whatever it is that Devin is trying to prove, at the detriment of others, doesn't see the light of day...

  49. #49

    Well, well, well... Well, I actually graduated from GWU, and am also in a predominately black sorority. The article is one sided, I will admit that, but anyone who says that Devin decided to be referred to with male pronouns AFTER he joined Zeta is dead wrong. The article may be one-sided, but its also very close to the truth.

    It is my opinion that if there was going to be a problem, they should have told him upfront. He may have been disappointed, but it would not have gotten this out of control. At least the legal waters would have been cleared before things went too far.

  50. #50

    Also, to be clear, I think that Devin would have felt more comfortable in an organization catered to the transgendered population. I am not necessarily defending his choice, but rather saying that he should still be treated like a person. He is a really nice person, and if effort had been put into defining the laws and whatnot before-hand, this would not be happening.

  51. #51

    After reading this article, what comes out in the end is if the name Vanessa White came across my desk on a resume,there is no chance I would EVER offer an interview, a contract, or a position to her. I do not believe people realize their actions can become part of them and drastically hinder their future endeavors. Knowing White's actions, and the legal aura currently in America, I just would have no desire to associate the corporation I work for with a person that carries a history like hers.

  52. #52

    This is truly a mess. Why would this woman want to join a female sorority, if it feels it's a man?

  53. #53

    I got on here just to say..."Delta Soror"?

    WHAT THE F*CK IS A "OPP OPP"!?!?! Even seeing that makes my skin crawl. You ain't my damn Soror so get the hell off of here you perp! How dare you disrespect the name of my illustrious organization, DELTA SIGMA THETA SORORITY INCORPORATED! OO-OOP! And I'm OWT!

  54. #54

    Delta Diva, give it a rest. How do you know Delta Soror isn't a member of Delta Sigma Theta, INC? May he or she was making a joke by saying opp opp. Reading this article about a female who think's he's a man is a joke and depressing. Skee wee

  55. #55

    Calling all Sorors to the floor! This article about the George Washington University's undergraduate chapter of Zeta Phi Beta, Inc. is an embarrassment to this black Greek all "FEMALE" Sorority.

  56. #56

    AKA Sorors, please read this article. "Men Interested in Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority??? They Call Themselves MIAKA’s"

    http://urie.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/huh-men-interested-in-alpha-kappa-alpha-sorority-they-call-themselves-miakas/

  57. #57

    P & G, if I were you, I'd would NOT try to attract any more attention to the MIAKAs and your organization...

  58. #58

    Perp Alert are you a lesbian or Bull Dyker? I don't think, you are a real lady of femininity. Skeeee weeeee

  59. #59

    A sorority is for women....he should have looked into joining a fraternity if he wanted to be identified as a man! We have no men in ZETA!!! We do not discriminate based on sexual orientation. But being a man in a sorority doesn't jive! Stop crying and realize it was just a bad move.

    This is also a one sided article...and too much time wasted reading it.

  60. #60

    I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority and I am not offended that devin wanted and did join the sorority. Zeta is and has always been an organization of diverse women with a clear understanding among us all, to uphold the values and principles of Zeta at all times. I am offended that during devins intake process this wasnt truely understood by deven and it shows through "his" actions. Finner womanhood is what sets us apart from other sororities and devin clearly didnt grasp this concept. Its fine that devin wants to be a man but men are not allowed in sororities for a reason and women arent allowed in fraternities. I am embarrassed at the entire situation as all greek women should be.

  61. #61

    this is beyond ridiculous and every time that I say that 'I ve seen it all', I continue to be shocked.

    1. I put the first set of blame on the members of Zeta Phi Beta who decided to allow someone in their chapter (not sorority) who they knew they wouldn't accept 100percent. Most people stopped joining fraternities/sororities, they join chapters because of they know that they can feel at home with that campus/chapter. If the Zetas knew that this might have major future implications on the chapter (which was foolish to ignore), then tell her NO (give some bullshit reason) and tell her to go join grad after graduation. They gambled and FAILED hard.

    2. The young lady for making decision to join a 'family' where she knew she wouldn't be completely accepted. Looking at the pictures, it seemed that she 'pledged'....the idea of 'pre pledging' means you get to meet the chapter members and see if u fit. She should have known that she would have been out of place....she gambled and FAILED hard as well.

    3. I am glad that someone mentioned this already, the article is completely one sided and she sounds like a bitter chick in this article. She makes some good points about 'discrimination' and 'harrassment' but she set herself up, is now bitter and is trying to 'get someone'. If she had liked them enough to want to be part of their family, she wouldn't be making this big news right now. Its like me suing my own relative/sibling for something like this....family means...you won't agree on everything but you keep family business IN HOUSE!!! She clearly doesn't care much about Zeta.

    4. For the GBLTA advocates, this is not the platform for it. May I ask that if this country as a whole including politicians, scholars etc are still struggling with how the GBLTA culture fits into today's society, then what makes you think some college students can get their minds around it? Are you serious? An organization with 89 years history versus a country with how long? and still struggling with basic civil rights issues?

    Come on folks....until she gets a sex change...she is a SHE. Just because a child who gets Fs in school wants to be called SMART, doesn't make the child SMART. It makes the child NOT SMART. This is not HER world, its a world with established cultures/norms...that won't change over night.

  62. #62

    Community...

    Beyond the deliberate, calculating, and oppressive actions of this organization towards Devin, is the way in which we as individuals continue to perpetuate this system, this pain, this exclusion, outcasting, and scapegoating of a survivor in these responses. I think our community, our black community has alot of work to do in understanding gender cohesion and recognizing that Gender binaries affect us ALL.

    Cisgender Women of Color I am Speaking to You:

    What is the affect of living within the restrictive gender binaries that we exist in, as women, as cisgender women, as cisgender women of color, as queer cisgender women of color, we can understand the pain and the hurt of being identified in a way that in many ways, promotes self-hatred, hatred of each other, and the internalization of a false presumption of womanhood....and who (or what) constructs these binaries, the contradictions, and systems that work to give us nothing but pain?

    And who are we to question, or impose our assumptions about an individuals gender identity, what gives us the authority, or the platform to do this? Why would we want to involve ourselves in this power relationship?

    And who told us that gender is an ACT, a ROLE? Devin has voiced a gender identity that he claims, and it IS real. Just as real as many cisgender women

    (cisgender meaning our sex and gender identity are in line with societies standards and categorization of who we assume to be True Women and True Men/ Biology and Gender Identity are normalized and we experience privielge as a result of that normalization....i.e. sex female+ gender woman= Cisgender)

    would identitfy. Who told us that Devin's identity was any less a reality than our own?

    This is oppression people, and for the extent to which we experience oppression, what makes us so comfortable perpetuating this shit....it is PAINFUL.

    Gender oppression and exclusion is a mechanism of social control that drives our community apart and prevents us from even trying to understand, accept, and coexist in a postive, progressvie, loving and healthy way. I am honored by this Survivor,this Warrior, who has been punished for claiming his identity and resisting large institutions that worked dilegently to suppress him. It is in fact a revolution in itself to be able to say I AM.

    I commend this individual for resisting despite all the negativity, and lack of support from the university and the National Organizaiton of Zeta Phi Beta Inc.

    I wonder, what the hell is wrong in redefining Sisterhood, Womanhood...especially if it promotes gender cohesion? What are we so afraid of as a people of coexisting and liberating ourselves outside of this binary? What are we working to protect, and is it really worth it? I must say, the risk are far too high, and far too wide....

    I am sending everyone my love, because it is clear that this is a collective community issue that we need to tackle and that we need to address. Because my friends, it affects us ALL.

  63. #63

    Wow...mad at the thesis. I thought I was long winded but seriously, why must Zeta Phi Beta be the one to first stand up to this issue? Sororities/Fraternities and a handful of 'special interest' groups have for the longest time being gender specific.

    I don't see these same advocates out lobbying for women to be able to play in the NFL. If she wanted to join an organization such as Zeta, she could have being a REAL leader and started a sorority for transgendered women. Not try to change 89 years of history and principles. She is no matyr, leader or the more excuses we make for people, the worse we make it.

  64. #64

    Sigma man, I concur with your comment. I am married to a Delta and my wife and I have been discussing this topic most of the day with other Frats and her Sorors. Zeta should have never accepted this freak/it into their Sorority. Looking at this female who wants to be a man is nothing but trouble. Now this black female organization will end up spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for court cost. What a shame!!!

  65. #65

    Pink N Green, I looked at the website you provide with a bunch of black sissies pretending to be AKA's. After viewing this site, I almost thru up. A bunch of faggots acting like women. The black community need to get their sh$t together. Homosexuality has been taught to blacks from our slave white owners. White America is very accepting of this type of behavior, but homosexuality in other countries in Latin America and the Middle East is taboo. God is soon to destroy this earth and I hope he does very soon.

  66. #66

    Pink N Green, I looked at the website you provided with a bunch of black sissies pretending to be AKA’s. After viewing this site, I almost threw up. A bunch of faggots acting like women. The black community need to get their sh$t together. Homosexuality has been taught to blacks from our slave white owners. White America is very accepting of this type of behavior, but homosexuality in other countries in Latin America and the Middle East is taboo. God is soon to destroy this earth and I hope he does very soon. Political correctness and tolerance will be the destruction of the United States of America.

  67. #67

    KappaNupe: You have made SEVERAL comments and most of them have involved some sort of elementary name calling in an effort to degrade Devin and the GWU Zetas.

    No matter how you feel about Devin or GWU Zeta Phi Beta, the discussion should be resepctful. Because at the end of the day, this WHOLE situation is about respect. Respect for Devin's choice and respect for the principles and standards of Zeta Phi Beta.

  68. #68

    Why is this idiot blaming the sorority for his/her own confusion? This is why even gays find transgendered people difficult to deal with--they are CRAZY and confused. Yes, it is not politically correct to say it but it is true. At one point, this person felt woman enough to want to join a sorority. That's deep. No man would ever want to join a sorority. After he got in, he insisted upon wearing men's shoes and being called "he". Idiot!! You cannot be in a sorority and be referred to as "he"! All of the blam cannot be placed upon the transgendered student. One has to wonder what the hell the Zetas were thinking to pledge a male. Are they THAT PRESSED for members? Geez, sisters! You all sure know how to embarass your brothers.

  69. #69

    Sororities are for females! The sorority would not have considered him for membership if he had presented himself as a male outright. Regardless of the one-sided nature of this article that clearly supports the behavior of Devin, the fact remains, based on the statements made in this article about the way she "communicated" her gender issues to sorority members, that she was not clear enough about her intention to live her life as a man. Had she been clear about that, this would have been a non-issue because Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated, nor any other sorority, will not consider a man for membership, period!

  70. #70

    Why not join a co-ed fraternity. Case close. There are GLBT fraternities/sororities that would accept a person who is transgender. I dont go places that dont accept me. These are private organizations where memberships are a priviledge and not a right... If you dont like it you have the option of saying NO!

  71. #71

    Pink N Green says:
    Delta Diva, give it a rest. How do you know Delta Soror isn’t a member of Delta Sigma Theta, INC? May he or she was making a joke by saying opp opp. Reading this article about a female who think’s he’s a man is a joke and depressing. Skee wee

    I will give nothing a rest. Either your spelling is as terrible as that call you make or you meant to say "maybe he or she..." hopefully there would be no he on here claiming to be a "Delta Soror". And NO member of Delta Sigma Theta SORORITY, Inc. would ever misspell or misuse our call...NEVER! Excuse me for taking pride in my organization, that's natural when you work hard for something. So a bit of advice to you...

    The Best of Business
    In the Line of Business
    Is to Mind Your Business
    And if you ain't got No Business
    Then Make it Your Business
    To Leave DELTA BUSINESS ALONE

  72. #72

    Mad at the Deltas for the shenanigans though...its bad enough the Zetas at this particular school just made themselves look bad...now you got Deltas (can't really tell I guess since u re behind computer screens) challenging each other. SMH.

    Now I wonder why collegiates today are opting for organizations like NSBE and creating their own groups, why pay dues and potentially get your ass beat if you can step, serve, and have sisters/brothers and avoid all this bull we keep putting forth.

    I will always advocate for NPHC greek life but some idiots sure make it more difficult than necessary.

  73. #73

    Delta Diva you are one ignorant fool. I hate you uppity blacks who have join these fraternities and sororities. You think you are better than other blacks, but you are not. These black Sororities have an ugly history on selecting light skin dam near white looking women who look like Lena Horne in their sororities back in the day at Howard University. Looking at the grammer and spelling of many on this site proves nothing. Maybe most are not good typist. You do know, Delta have many Dykes in their organization.

  74. #74

    Soror (Delta DIVA), I don't have to prove anything to you about my being a member of DST. I can assure you DIVA, I have been a Soror much longer than you and probably, before you were born. Yes, I am a mature woman of 64 years old. I have been a member of DST since 1966. What about you DIVA?

  75. #75

    On another note MISS Delta Diva, I am a life member of DST. Can you say the same?

  76. DSTinguished with a fitted
    #76

    I am truly blessed to be in the organization I am in.
    My sorors resect my sexual preference as well as the more masculine way I choose to dress. I joined an organization to give back and better myself through sisterhood.
    As an interest I didn't hide what I was, and I was told by numerous prophytes, that they are considering me because of me not because of my style of dress or personal preference.
    Am I am female, yes, am I a lesbian yes, do I dress more masculine yes, are there certain 'sexy' feminie strolls I don't do yes, but I respect that my sorority was founded by 22 women and our traditions are based on that.
    I just ask that we don't bring sexual preference into this, the gender preference is the real issue here.

    However, if I later choose to transition into a male (which I do not) will I have to denounce Delta?

    DST-Never another option and I'm OWT!

  77. #77

    Some of my fellow Greeks are embarassing me greatly here. There is no way that you can be committed to the ideals of your organization and still speak so rudely about Devin, whether you agree with him or not. I do not agree with his choice, as Ive stated, but I do not see any reason to speak of him as a "freak" or any other derogatory term. You cannot effectively serve your community if you don't respect its members (and Im talking about community as a whole, not the Greek community).

    Just as the ladies of ZPhiB at my alma mater were concerned about their image, so should you be. Please, at least control your intolerance, bigotry, and insensitivity on this VERY public forum.

  78. #78

    Wow all of you who are fighting over the sorority shit is such immature b/s. Grow up u guys and seriously look at the real issue. The ladies in the sorority knew him as a lesbian from before but that's it. He made it a point ot let them know who he was and that he didn't identify as a lesbian. Ok I wanna ask many of you out here have any of u identified as gay, bi, or les? Thinking that maybe you really were at that time? Then down the road woke up and realized omg I'm straight I'm not gay? That's the same as Devin yea he may have iditified as a lesbian but he realized he wasn't since he finally realized he was trans. Now I'm not saying all of you are being immature just the ones who are fighting and saying my sorority is better do you know wat this this and this is ect..

    Those of you who are sticking up for Devin good for you shows that you are good ppl with good hearts and don't judge on a closed minded level. Devin has every rite to join if he wanted to the sisters wanted him to join. So after alot of pressure he finally said why not I'll give it a shot. Were the ladies went wrong is that they literally said to his face " YOU ARE A GIRL NOT A BOY SO ACT LIKE ONE" seriously?? Act like a female when you don't identify as one why would you? That would be like telling someone who is gay to stop sleeping with the same sex when they aren't even attracted to the opposite sex. So why tell someone to doesn't identify with there biological body and identifies with their mind and heart?

  79. #79

    Damn...must everything turn into a Delta-AKA fight? DAMN.

  80. #80

    and miss mary? please stop it.

  81. #81

    I go to GWU...and from what I've heard, Devin is not a lesbian. Devin identifies as being a gay man. he's not attracted to women.

  82. #82

    I am gay male and a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. I understand Alston-Smith's frustration with wanting to be accepted as transgender and I think it takes a brave person to choose to live the life that he has chosen to live. I, too, had a terrible undergraduate experience as a new initiate of the fraternity. I was not "out" and did not put myself "out there", nor did I expect to be accepted as a member of the frat who is a gay male. I wanted to be accepted a Brother. However, the members' perception of what they thought my sexual orientation was and their response to this is what made my undergraduate experience unfortunate. I dare not go into details but even in the midst of this, I worked hard to prove that I was worthy of membership and that I would "herald and defend even agaist the world." While I don't share a brotherly relationship with some of the brothers, including my line brothers, I never let that affect my love for the fraternity and my deep conviction in the fraternity's principles. As such, I value my gifts that represent Sigma and I would never (and will never) destroy or part with my Fraternity paraphernalia. Phi Beta Sigma is much bigger than two or three individuals who have a flawed perception of what Brotherhood truly is. Which is why, even though I share Alston-Smith's frustration and I bear the same cross, I don't agree with his last act of destroying his Zeta paraphernalia. If he couldn't hold on to anything else from this situation, he should've had the courage to hold on to his organizational symbols and memorabilia. He earned the right have them and he too, should've protected and guarded them with his life. To him, Zeta should've been bigger than those girls on that campus. I question whether he truly loved Zeta Phi Beta Sorority from the beginning and whether his decision to seek and accept membership in the organization came from his heart. However, I do hope this situation gets rectified fairly and I hope that he will be able to find peace of mind in the end.

    "God grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things I can, and the WISDOM to know the difference."

  83. #83

    As an illustrious member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. It doesn't surprise me that Chanise (Devin's name given at birth) wanted to join our organization. We are Finer Women that is what shows and that is what Chanise saw when considering membership.

    Now Chanise changed the rules during the intake process and then expected initited sorors to ignore and just accept that. As Zetas we uphold and stand firmly by our principles and to just let someone decide to change their mind and expect us to change the standards of OUR organization...it just won't happen!!!

    As I read the mindless comments of the 'Me Phi Mes' (or GDI's)who know nothing about what Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. stands for and can't conceiably understand our unspoken principles and rituals, I just laugh because you know nothing about us.

    As for the Deltas dishing it back and forth, handle your business in private, this is not the place to air your dirty red panties.

    As for you Sigma Man, I am ashamed that you fault your sorors for accepting Chanise. You know since Zeta Phi Beta Sigma is constitutionally bound and we now have a grieving member, maybe Chanise (well Devin) should just be granted an honorary memebership into Phi Beta Sigma Farternity, Inc. and attend your chapter's meetings. G.O.M.O.B!

  84. #84

    I wonder if other fraternities and sororities will be reluctant to admit gay members because of this situation.

  85. #85

    If he wanted to be a dude why pledge Zeta? It's oxymoronic and makes no sense. With more people having these types of procedures, all of us Alpha, AKA, QUE, Nupe, Delta, Sigma, Zeta, Sigma Gamma Rho's and Iota's need to sit down and figure out what the hell to do about this in the future because he/she won't be the last.

  86. #86

    Reading this article and comments have sadden me. Why would a female who thinks or identifies with being a man want to join a all women Sorority? This confused person don't know what the hell he/she/it want to be, but I do know this individual need to seek some mental health counseling. Sororities are for women and Fraternities are for men. The Zetas should have never choosen a butch looking and man acting female to join their sorority. This person is a confused freak of nature and I blame the local undergraduate chapter for letting this person join. I can assure you Omega Psi Phi, Inc. and other Greek organization will be looking at this case carefully.

  87. #87

    All I have to say is pull up to the bumper baby! lol This have been the funnist article I have read in a lot time along with the comments. Thanks guys. lol lol

  88. #88

    Plainly, I do not believe that people who do not agree with what Devin did are small-minded. I believe that Devin was utterly confused. He/she (because this person has female parts, hence, this person is female) identifies as male, YET decided to join a female sorority for whatever reasons. It doesn't matter if they were accepting at first or not. Men can not be in sororities and women can not be in fraternities. That's just the bottom line. If you think you're a man then don't join an organization that was established for the advancement of women. I can not blame the members of this chapter, nor the other members that were involved in this whole incident. Devin should have thought long and hard before making that decision. He/she just wanted to be accepted, period. The blame lies within Devin.

  89. #89

    OK so if you dont want to be associated with anything that pertains to a Woman....WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY did SHE join a SORORITY....I think SHE is more confused than EVER!!!!! SHE would have been better joining a grrek organization that allows both men and women....This story was such a OXY MORON and I feel that the members of the organization did NOTHING wrong.

    MISS ALSTON SMITH........PLEASE GET IT TOGETHER!!!!!

  90. #90

    Confused....Miss Alton Smith as ur putting him is not a female. He is male identifies as male he is not confused so HE has every rite to join if it's safer for him to join a sorority than a fraternity and risk HIM from getting hurt.

  91. #91

    Ayden,

    To be a lesbian (a woman who's sexual preference is women) and identify as a lesbian to the members of Zeta whom were responsible for your initiation - only in the meantime to "realize" that you're "straight" because you are, in fact, a male who's sexual preference is women.... not only deems you confused, but arrogant.

    This is a big IF these days, but if he did indeed pledge, where was his love and appreciation for his organization? Where was his desire to uphold and protect the principles of Zeta? Where was his understanding of what he was getting himself into, and why didn't he think it was appropriate to (maybe, just maybe) step down and depledge the organization as a means of respecting what Zeta stands for? If you are living your life as a man, surely you cannot be able to display "finer womanhood" on a college campus, right? And surely you don't think the other individuals who share this responsibility with you (to uphold your purpose) would find a complete disrespect of that purpose to be OK.

    I'm not a Zeta - although some of my fav Greek girls are Zetas - but I feel for them. I don't think I'd know what to say or do in a situation like this.

    Lastly, for my LGBTQ folks in these comments... seriously - I've fought for you all because I believe in human rights, but where does the sense of entitlement end? If you identify as a male, how do YOU qualify - to even YOURSELF - for membership into a sorority? If you were born a man, how do you justify a desire to be initiated into a Sorority for women - sisters, no less? You deserve to live, love, and enjoy your liberty. But private entities with requirements for membership have the right to uphold those requirements, and your choice to disassociate with your birth gender doesn't - and shouldn't - change that.. and it reeks of self-importance and self-centeredness to think otherwise.

    I feel for Devin and I hope that he can find peace with himself after what I'm sure is a sad experience. However, I hope the Zetas can get it together for the bumpy ride they've surely got ahead of them, as well.

  92. #92

    LOL @ Delta Diva... Soror, I saw that too (opp opp)!!! And to call the org Zeta Phi Theta... um, probably not a soror.. Im glad the Zeta sistergreek just left it alone! Shes probably not even greek!

  93. #93

    Anika, well said!

  94. #94

    Clear this up for us - is Devin born physically a male but emotionally female OR a born physically female but emotionally a male? The picture truly does not shed light.

    If he was born a male, Zeta Phi Beta and many other Greek sororities stand for something bigger than one individual. Maybe a co-ed org would've been more appropriate.

    They were kind enough to invite Devin to join their extensive sorority network. They were kind enough to accept Devin's initial requests to be called him and he. They were open-minded and got burned. There's nothing wrong with change but Devin should've truly gone the GDI route and started his own org if he wanted to set the standards however he so felt.

  95. #95

    What year is it again?!?! By reading some of your comments I could have sworn it was 1909 instead of 2009...Catch up with the times people geese!

  96. #96

    I think because he completely identifed with being a man (even uses the men's restroom), he should have not joined the sorority. Zeta Phi Beta is all about finer WOMANHOOD, so if you're a "man", why would you want to partake in something that embraces womanhood. Devyn needs to see a therapist to figure out if he wants to be a man or a woman. Then he should proceed to do a sex change. As long as he looks like a woman, people will be confused and call him a her.

  97. #97

    Devin may identify as a male, but his actions & responses are sterotypiclly female. No organizatioanl membership should be so important that it causes you to withdraw from life. I hope he's able to resolve his issues & get on with his live.

  98. #98

    100

    Baba Buey Baba Buey Howard Ster Rules!!!

  99. #99

    People need to know that the definitions of transgender or lesbian or gay are not equivalent. Just as female is not equivalent to woman and male is not equivalent to man. There are many females with the equipment to birth babies but evidently don't know what it means to be a mother, lady, or woman (just an example).

    According to the accounts in this article, Devin did not misrepresent himself from day one. The Zetas who offered the membership did not know the difference between lesbian and transgender. According to the article, Devin explained his identity but the overriding assumptions (without identifying the need for clarification) prevailed.

    As African Americans, we hate when other people make assumptions about who and how we are, yet we continue to do it to each other. That's not service, scholarship, sisterly love, or finer womanhood. Seems like we create our own Jim Crow laws sometimes.

    Devin will rebound. All of our great leaders have been the victims of some type of injustice. Their struggles and victories are why we exalt them as leaders. Followers remain just that. Greek or otherwise.

    Maybe if the ladies of Zeta Phi Beta understood that attempting to force Devin to identify as something he is not, is no different than whipping Kunta Kinte into calling himself Toby. That, to me, is the vicious and violent act. Where's the "service" in that?

  100. #100

    As a member of ZETA PHI BETA SORORITY INC., I am ashamed that once again our beloved sorority has in house issues being aired in the public! I do not discriminate on ones personal sexual preference. However "Devin" was not forced to join ZETA "s(he)" pledged? paid? to become a member of ZETA. And as KayBee stated Devin identified himself as a gay male?! Then why join a sorority! When Devin attended functions or went places did he expect to be called Soror or Frat? I feel as if my Sorors should have "observed" this person prior to extending membership. It's apparent that the ZETAs @ GW were initially kind and accepting of Chanise's "uniqueness" and "Devin" mistook this as something else in "his" pursuit to be accepted! Poor judgement on all parties!

  101. #101

    I can't believe something like this was even allowed to propagate so long. Transgender? In a Fraternity OR Sorority??? WTF??? I'm not knockin the GLBT lifestyle, but members of the younger generation have blurred the historic lines of BGLO's completely!!! GLBT have their own Greek organizations, as do Asian's, Latino's, etc. Yet each of them have diversity membership. However, if a Transgender wants to join a "Traditional" Sorority and hold himself out to be a "Man" then he is drawing the confusion onto himself.

    Frankly, I'm MAD as hell that my Soror's even entertained the whole charade!!!

  102. #102

    Very very interesting. I think that we must see the bigger issue here. As a proud member of Phi Beta Sigma and an openly gay member of the organization, I can understand the frustration of thinking that you are going to be accepted in something and then realizing that the people who call themselves your "Frat or Soror" turn on you. Of course being in the organization does not automatically mean you have to like everything about all your brothers and sisters, but there are some things to be thought about. Devin cant join a fraternity because he is genetically a woman, and he desired to be identified as a man. Devin even gave alternatives to refer to him as just Devin if people were uncomfortable with pronoun adjustments. He also saw Zeta as an accepting organization on his campus...but if all those things were done to him after the fact...then thats crazy.

    I agree with Z duece...there should have been more consideration though

  103. #103

    This is so weird and funny.

    Sororities are for females, it is as simple as that. As long as she/he acted like a female there would not be a problem. Being a lesbian isn't an issue, being a butch is.

    There are lots of gays in my frat, some brothers are bothered by it, some aren't. But as long as they act like a brother, dress like a brother, there isn't a problem.

    At a convention I attended, a few gay ones showed out, not looking like brothers and they were escorted out the door.

  104. #104

    As a member of the Greek community here at GW, I am truly amazed at this situation. Yet I strongly believe that both sides are at fault. Devin for not thinking out his transition before joining a sorority, and Zeta for not thoroughly thinking out the future of having a transgendered member. Devin was naive to think that everything would continue as it had before his prophytes graduated, seeing as though the current members were not 100% accepting of the situation. Its sad to see where this is headed, but I hope this cry for attention has satisfied Devin and will allow him to continue with his life because there are clearly still some hurt feelings involved.

  105. #105

    so "DAVE" that means your fraternity discriminates on appearance? nice.

    I would hope you people would read what you are saying and see what it makes you and your selected organizations come across as...ignorant.

    It's sad that Devin had to feel discriminated against. It's a sticky situation, however, I would have hoped that ZPB would have taken this opportunity to educate themselves about transgender issues. Their chapter could have become an advocate for this issue and this article could have been quite positive. GW black sorority breaks the mold and opens up to transgender issues... a much better headline. I'm sad that they didn't take that opportunity. i guess ignorance is bliss?!

  106. #106

    Incredible article, Amanda!

  107. #107

    I'm very confused. If you want to be identified as a man, including using the men's restroom, why would you join a female organization? You can't be both. You can't say you want to be a man, but then do "some" things as a female. You have to be consistent. I think that is what caused all the problems here. Devin caused his own problems. He should have joined a fraternity where there was no question that all members would be referred to as he.

    You can't be a chicken that lives life as a fox and expect to be allowed into the hen house. You have to choose, solidly and decisively. It makes life easier first and foremost for yourself and it makes it easier to have the world see you for the person you want to be seen as. I'm sad that Devin had to learn this the hard way, but sometimes that's the best way to learn something.

  108. #108

    I actually took time to read the article and the majority of the comments. The comments made were both reasonable and ignorant. I can imagine identifying as transgender is probably difficult because society has not yet accepted or quite understands it...just like most things it will take time. There are many homosexuals in sororities/fraternities and if that was the only issue I probably would have sided with Devin. Transgender does not = homosexual.

    As a member of a Sorority (noteworthy sorority) I can say it would be difficult for me personally to accept someone in my sorority that identifies as being a male (not lesbian but wants to be referred to as he/him). I personally believe that is not something the sorority should have to bend on considering membership is exclusive. The principles of the sorority are written and should not have to change to accommodate people if membership is exclusive. You can choose to join another organization that is more accepting, create your own or get over yourself and fall in line. Devin should have been proactive and established something Devin would have been proud to be apart of and would have been accepted in.

    As for the sororities going back and forth on the comments…are you serious? HONESTLY!!

  109. DSTinguished with a fitted
    #109

    Once again let's not confuse terminology.
    I'm a butch, however does not identify as male.
    Dave, I'm sorry to hear that your frat discriminates,
    But I would never rep letters of an org who does not accept its members for who they are.
    I understand for ceremonies there's a dres code, and I doubt you frat dresscode includes dresses.
    So you have a point o a certain extent.

  110. #110

    This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard or read. This he/she/it need to be committed into a mental istitution. WTF do it mean, it is a man. Do it have a penis or prostate glade like us men and produce semen? Our country and society is in a sad situation. If there's a God and I believe there is, I know he's not please with the sin and confusion happening on earth.

  111. #111

    Man, that is beyond wild. I don't understand as to why s(he) would want to join a sorority since s(he) was identifying as being a male, but I'm sure that s(he) knew that acceptance would not be granted for a fraternity. as a Greek myself, I would be appalled if a man posing as a female wanted to join my frat, and the clear answer would be no. It's crazy what people will do to be a part of something, seriously. Maybe, just maybe s(he) should have come up with the idea of creating a Lesbian/Gay/Transgendered Greek org, and went about the process this way. It was totally wrong trying to go the way that s(he) did, then expect to be respected.

  112. #112

    I concur Frat@Nupespr2k2!

  113. #113

    I've seen a lot of references to Devin's sexual orientation. From calling her a lesbian, to calling her a gay man... and yet I've read this article 3 times (once, again to understand and a third to fact check some of this stuff people are saying) and I don't see that.

    She very well could self-identify as a gay man, but she's not a lesbian as she doesn't self-identify as a woman (and that's a requirement for the lesbian label) Clearly it's a free world and we're ALL entitled to our own opinions, but a)some of you guys should re-focus on the fact that this is about gender and not sexual orientation and b) should FACT check before you go making assumptions.

  114. #114

    I have been a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. for over 20 years. Fault lies with Devin and my Sorors. Devin should never have been allowed to finish the In Take Process once he made it clear that he wanted to be addressed and viewed as a male. Alumni Sorors should have provided more guidance and asked a few more questions about Devin before submitting his application.

    Devin should clearly define and accept the role that he wants to play and udnerstand that no sorority is going to willingly change their tradition to satisfy his needs to be seen as a man. He introduced himself as a woman and accepted the invitation of membership as a woman. Deciding to be viewed as a male in the middle of the In Take Process is dishonest and unfair. If he wants to be viewed and addressed as a man then now is the time for him to "man up" and act like one.

    EE-I-KEE

  115. #115

    she's a genetic woman who felt the imperative (not desire, not choice, but force of nature) to live her life as a man. She seemingly was open. My understanding is not that she is into guys in anyway (thus does not identify as a "gay man") she is a genetic woman, and she identifies as a man. She was previously a gay woman, but she is now a transgender man. Her sorority seemingly was aware of this. They chose to accept her, and then recinded that acceptance. The fault is partly Devin's in that he was naive. The fault is also partly the sororities in not dealing with the manner in a more effective way. The bulk of the fault lies in societal misunderstanding of what it means to be transgendered. If the sorority had decided not to accept his pledge (totally viable option) post pledge process then it wouldn't have been an issue. The issue occurred when they accepted his pledge (as a genetic woman he does not belong in a sorority), and then later failed to accept his difference. He identifies as a man. This does not make him a man. It makes him a transgendered person. Sexuality, gender identity, and religious identity all lie along a sliding scale. His sisters did not believe that his position on this scale was valid POST initiation. I find that to be mildly offensive (really pretty par for course), but I find the bulk of these comments to be reprehensible.

  116. OpenForInterpretation
    #116

    Kappa1911 you sound like an idiot. The world is changing and you need to realize it. Read the article again smarty and realize when Devin showed interest and was extended membership it was as a woman. Mid-way he decided to transition that was a stickier situation which perhaps should have been discussed more thoroughly with prophytes and Zeta administration. Whereas GWU has regulations on membership on campus orgs ZETA is an international org that does not fall under the whip of GWU so perhaps this needs to be taken to the higher ups and not to the school

  117. #117

    From my understanding, he identifies as a straight male (I know he's dated females recently).

    And just a follow-up comment to something I said earlier:

    I agree with the folks who said that the sorority would not have knowingly admitted someone who wishes to identify as male. I do think that they were probably under the impression that he was a lesbian. When a person is trying to figure out if he or she identifies as the opposite gender, that's a very difficult thing to tell most anyone... friends, family, coworkers, new acquaintances, or, in this case, a Greek organization with people you've only recently met. So my guess is that Devin was unsure when he joined, and when he tried to tell them initially (whether that was upon joining or once he was a member or many months later), perhaps he didn't explain it thoroughly. I doubt the concept was totally foreign to the Zetas, but being a sorority that promotes womanhood, they would definitely need to get a clear, unambiguous message in order to understand that Devin is a trans male. Like I said, it's difficult to say those things so if Devin actually knew that he identified as male when he joined, I don't think he explained it fully because the Zetas would not have admitted him, just the same as they would not admit any other male who wanted to join. They would direct that person to a fraternity or an organization who would accept that person for who he or she is. So I believe that the Zetas thought he identified as female when he joined and did not know that he was trans until later.

  118. #118

    mdesus...no, devin was never a lesbian. it's already been commented that she's attracted to men. this makes him a gay male

  119. #119

    for the record, "it's already been commented" should by no means be considered an indication of truth on this comment thread.

  120. Hot Tamalez (G-Sweet)
    #120

    First off let me say this, any man (boy) wanting to be a member of a woman's organization is definetly not in his (it's) right mind. If this was a random act of trying to see if you could do something that no one else could then that's inhumane, unjust, childish, cruel, and just plain ASININE. Yeah ASININE. I think that if you won't publicity you should try other stunts such as singing, dancing or acting an ASS somewhere else other than within the an organization that stands for something. No, the organization does not discriminate regardless or sex, color, or creed, but it was organized for WOMEN...and you know that that is something that you're not, then why try it....? It's humiliating to read this kind of thing. SOME of Zeta Phi Beta's primary PRINCIPLES are FINER WOMANHOOD and SISTERLY LOVE, and if this dude studied that in his reading and findings of Zora Neale Hurston, then he KNEW from the jump that this sorority had nothing to do with HIM......It's degrading, humiliating and causes derogatory and undue publicity to the sisters of ZETA PHI BETA sorority. All i can say is,THAT ZETA PHI BETA must be something special if we got dudes that want to join, or perhaps he wasn't cut to become a SIGMA....! He knew what he was doing, but it's ok, the same way he made it into the organization can be the same way he can be dismissed. Vote him out.....!!!!But may God still blessed the confused souls that he created....He do take care of CHILDREN AND FOOLS.!

  121. #121

    well it looks like I'm not an idiot and infact was correct in my statement that Devin is not about dating dudes.

  122. #122

    amanda, that may be the truth..but as another student on GW's campus, it's common knowledge that devin has told people that he's attracted to men

  123. #123

    Also how retarded is bringing god into this discussion at all? Yeah praying for him will help. Some asshole reads the bible a bit becomes a preacher, and all of a sudden they are qualified to advise someone on the same level as a therapist? that's just ridiculous. Praying does not heal physical damage, and while belief (and maybe prayer) can help an individuals emotional problems it is by no means an effective medium for most. Fuck jesus and your bibles. My jesus knows mathew and psalms and realizes that gender and sexuality were little understood then, but often accepted. Yeah in the old testament they say stone a man who lies with another man, but that's one line amongst many that are later contradicted. I find jewish midrash to be very insightful in these sorts of things. They essentially outline why it is IMPOSSIBLE to put anyone to death. They essentially require the burden of proof to be unreasonably high, and thus uprovable.

  124. #124

    Cry me a river. If you are confused about your gender, don't join a SORORITY. Fool probably thought it was an arena to catch women.
    And I have no problem about people being confused. But spare us non-confused mofos your chaos.

  125. #125

    OpenForInterpretation, you sound like a stupid bi$ch! It's neither here or there, this girl was born and created in the imagine of a woman with a vagina. PrettyKitty86 explained in perfectly, the women of this sorority is at fault for accepting this thing into their sorority. Now this organization may be exposed to all kinds of law suits thanks to the liberal District of Columbia I live in. Hopefully black Greek fraternities and sororities will learn from this incident. I have shared this article with other family members who happen to be in black Greek fraternities. We all were baffled after reading this article. For all those out there comparing this to black civil rights are wrong for doing so. I am tired of blacks struggles doing the civil rights based on skin color and as U.S. citizens the same as gays, lesbians, or freaks. Unfortunately, man has tried to change "GOD's law to fit into the 21st Century. This is why will are seeing the downfall and destruction of the United States, because many in society have lost their morals and anything goes and is accepted. Those are the ones who are lost and will perish in the end.

  126. #126

    This article saddens me. I am a member of this sorority. Chanise, her legal, name states that she never intended to become anybody's sister. She liked the fact that Zeta stood for service, scholarship, SISTERHOOD, and FINERWOMANHOOD. If she never intended to become anybody's sister then why join. I don't condone Chanise's lifestyle but I don't judge it. Do you, I will pray for you. Make the right decision for your life. Are you sure? I know that it must be hard with both male and female tendencies. You have to decide, you can't be both. We are women, you can't make us be men or change our rules to act like men. We are feminine, we like to be "sexy". You have to understand that is who we are. We like high heels, we like pumps. If you don't want to be who we are, then join a fraternity. Maybe I am from a different time are there 3 sexes now, Male, Female and transgender? The action of my sorors also saddens me. If she told you before intake, why would you allow a person who wants to be referred to be a man join our organization? Zeta's are Finer Women. To allow her in and then mistreat her is awful and not sisterly. Inactive or not she is a soror.

  127. #127

    On another note, I read in the Washington Post about George Mason University accepting a Drag Queen (Male) as their Homecoming Queen. What in is happening in society? Sex, greed, and fornication will be the downfall of mankind as it were with Sodom and Gomorrah.

    To: Mdesus, your comment about Jesus is blasphemous. I assume, you must be white, because I find many white people to be Godless or don't believe in God. Your comment was very disrespectful to Jesus Christ and may he have mercy on your soul.

  128. #128

    This entire adventure is a simple case relating to degrees of "Principle". Each party strongly believes in and is ready to defend the principle that is in their best interest. Some may feel that one and/or both parties are to blame for this misunderstanding. I strongly feel that neither party full digested the possible consequences of their initial decision.

    It is conceivable & commendable that Ms. Jardin & Ms. White defended the founding principles of their sorority. The same applies for Devin. To defend and not compromise one's principles is is a honorable activity. Any form of debilitation would not have been in the best interest of either party. However, in the end, it was Devin who debilitated.

    Now it may appear that I am jumping to both sides of the fence. I assure you that I am not, I'm just attempting to be objective. Each party thought that they could adjust to the others disposition. Time proved that this was not to be. Ms. Jardin must be from the "old school". When Devin went into the men's restroom, I think she experienced an apocalypse and reached her anxiety level. This woman may be old and set in her ways, there is no doubt in my mind that she has the best interest of Zeta at heart.

    To the person who stated that he/she would not consider Ms. White for employment. Be careful of what you say you will not do. Ms. White talents maybe what your company is looking for and/or needs. The too, it may be Ms. White who has to review your resume for a promotion.

    All said and done, we as a people must respect one's will, disposition, way of life and mannerism whether we agree or not. To ensure the course, we must develop and maintain an effective and wholesome dialogue. One that supports positive results.

    I conclude of a sad note. It saddens me to read some of the language use by members of different sororities. You are college trained, but most of all you are ladies. i know that you can communicate and disagree in forms better than what was stated by some.
    Ladies, whether you are Delta, Zeta, AKA, Sigma Gam, etc., first and foremost, you are a "Proud Black Woman".

    I am a Greek, what affects one, affects all. Zeta will rise above this, as will Devin. God's speed.

  129. #129

    I've read all the comments and I agree with what some are saying. The Zeta's have no one to blame but themselves. Devin's situation is too confusing to try and explain to potential members, the grad chapter and the GW community.

    I'm sure there are groups for GLBT on that campus that he could have joined and saved himself the headache. Now they are making this out to be a discriminatory issue when it is not. I understand that he is hurt, but that is life. Like someone else said, he may be inactive but HE is still their soror.

  130. #130

    I am confused. If this person (Chanise/Devin) is attracted to men is she really gay? Why have a sex change to sleep with a man when you are already a woman? I am understanding that GW Zetas thought she was a lesbian. There are gay members in all organizations. We can accept that. But asking us to our Principles to accommendate a confused person is crazy. Lastly I want people that are not familiar with the Black greek letter organizations to know that we are NOT social sororities and fraternities. We are service oriented. We service our communities, promote education, and we are family. Membership to any of the Black greek letter organizations is for life. It goes beyond being seen on a college campus. This is why we have graduate chapters. We continue to Serve well beyond graduating from college. I am referring to comments from the people who said something to the effect of no longer being a sorority member and Zeta being a social sorority. This Chanise/Devin person will always be a Zeta. She/He is not active meaning not financial and not participating in an active chapter. Zetas, AKAs, Deltas, SGRhos,Sigmas, Alphas, Omegas, Kappas, and Iotas are all Service oriented. Our history dates back to the early 1900s. Check out websites to just how much work we have done!

  131. #131

    To Anika this is for you it is beating a dead horse to sit and explain the situation I'm trying to tell you obviously in my opinioon your just showing ur ignorance on someone who is trans. Since I myself am trans and FTM. So I whole heartedly understand wat Devin is going threw. I myself identified as a lesbian b/c I was stuck in the societies binary as to wat gender really is. WAt ur genitals look like is wat sex u are. But in reality my heart and brain is telling me I'm male same with Devin. So therefore the fact he now identifies as male OBVIOUSLY HE DOESN'T IDENTIFY AS LESBIAN. Also if I remember correctly someone commented earlier who is a very close friend of his that Devin never identified as lesbian to begin with. So why are ppl saying that?
    I agree he shoulda joinded a LBGT soroity but that's not the issue now is it? Maybe he didn't wanna join a LBGT or co-ed frat.No the issue is that HE joined the sorority and was discriminated against. His love for it was lost when the ppl HE thought were his friends turned against him and reated him like shit. Now if u were treated like that from the ppl you learned to care about and trusted wouldn't the love for the sorority be lost?? He was very hurt by his friends or so he thought actions. I am going to sit here and defend Devin with all my strength b/c he is a very nice guy and HE IS NOT CONFUSED.

  132. #132

    Bottomline the Zeta's at GWU are the one's to blame for this whole embarrassment. Frat Ole Skool Sigma took the words out of my mouth "Frankly, I’m MAD as hell that my Soror’s even entertained the whole charade!!!

  133. #133

    i feel sorry for Devin. He obviously wanted to be part of something that he thought would treat him differently but he was wrong. i am a lesbian member of ZPB who has not come out to her sorors. although they know me well, i do not wish to be judged and mistreated, and i know it will happen because ive seen it happen to other members.

    Devin, you were true to yourself and i would suggest you look into a lgbt sorority, there are lots of them that would gladly accept you and your situation and could benefit from your strength...let this be a lesson to all D9 orgs...

  134. Delta/Law Student/Lesbian
    #134

    I guess at surface level you could ask, well why would Devin join? But delving deeper, one has to ask why not?

    This issue was brought up at membership intake training for my line sisters and I last spring. The response we got from those instructing us was that Delta was silent on the issue.

    Silence can mean consent to a belief or it could mean the exact opposite. Nevertheless, the conscious decision to not speak on the issue will only create problems like Devin’s. Instances, where the ideals of the sorority and the advancement of GLBT rights are at the whim of those afraid to embrace change in both respects.

    I don't know the exact way to approach this issue but I know silence is not the answer. To continue to ignore transgender issues in our sororities will only remedy the consciences of those to afraid to accept the inevitable…Gays, Lesbians & Transgender individuals are entitled to the same rights and privileges as heterosexuals in all walks of life.

    Devin's case is strange in that she was born a female, identifies as a male, yet she chooses to invoke the benefits of a sisterhood. And while it may seem the rational response is to deny those like him membership in the future. What will that mean for individuals who are born male, later identify as female and wish to seek membership? The paradigm of transgender membership in our beloved sisterhood must be considered compassionately and fairly for all individuals that identify as such.

    A fundamental principle behind each of our organizations was to provide a safe haven & place of sisterhood during a time when society viewed our people as inferior.

    That principle is not advanced by the iniquitous practice of not speaking on the issue or worse the denial of membership based on transgender status.

    The resolution of this issue is precarious. It requires a sincere effort to understand the interest of both sides. Each sides ideals should be advanced but not at the expense of belittling the necessities of the other.

    I share a sincere interest in this issue from a sexual orientation, legal and member prospective. My mind is racing at the possibilities at what a law suit under this issue could mean. The story fell heavy on my heart.

    It reminded me of why I’m in law school and of the work that lies ahead in the advancement of fundamental rights that are guaranteed to us all.

    I don’t believe equality is ever achieved by the disregard of another’s right to liberty and the pursuit to happiness.

    I hope that each side can see the value and need for the advancement of both parties interest and begin to work collectively for change.

  135. #135

    I think its very plain and simple that if the female born wants to be considered a male and wants live as a male, then "he" should have never joined the sorority; that which is for females. Yes, he/she had the legal right to do so but why cause the confusion just because you're confused.
    The sorority should have never extended an invitation knowing that this individual considerate themself a male.
    Both parties created this very immature situation.
    Now the question is; what shall they do about it?
    In my opinion, not that it matters; but I think Devin should do some serious soul searching about who he/she is or isn't, get some counseling if needed because it doesn't sound like Devin is sure who he/she is or wants to be. I'm not gay or lesbian, but I do believe that if Devin/Shanice accepts that they are lesbian/gay without having to change their gender they wouldn't be as confused; and they wouldn't have joined the sorority looking for some type of acceptance from people who really don't care.
    Bottom line, SEEK JESUS!!!!!!

  136. #136

    Given the experience that African Americans have had in this country, it saddens me that we fail to treat others with the same amount of dignity and respect, that we have been fighting for since our ancestors first arrived. Many of us revere Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for his role in the Civil Rights Movement and expect others who aren't African American to do the same, but fail to acknowledge the bravery, compassion and intelligence of GLBTQ leaders (Eg. Fmr. San Francisco City Supervisor Harvey Milk) for the work that they have done to make this country a better place.

    Don't get me wrong, I would make the same argument regarding the GLBTQ community, if they had harassed a heterosexual person, who joined one of their organizations.

    One of the fundamental flaws in the reasoning that many of you have used to justify the responses, which you have posted is the concept that Devin Alston-Smith deserved the treatment he received because Zeta Phi Beta, is an organization that is designed to support "Finer Womanhood". Your responses espouse the view that Devin was not comfortable with his sexuality. I believe that he was a lot more comfortable with the fact that Zeta Phi Beta values "Finer Womanhood" than many of the other GWU Zeta's.

    Devin never did anything to prevent the other Zeta's from living up to the organizations founding principles.

    • He never forced the other Zeta's to wear Men's tennis shoes at step practice.

    • He never addressed the other Zeta's with the pronouns his or he, even though he knew that they preferred hers or she?

    • He never tried to kick the other Zeta's out of the group, because he did not accept their femininity?

    I could go on and on, but I don't believe that it is necessary for me to do that, in order for you to understand my point.

    If Devin respected the organization enough to join and participate, without trying to force his ideas on everyone else, the other Zeta's should have been able to appreciate, celebrate and respect that. I would contend that the reason they failed to treat Devin in the same way that he treated them is because they were not comfortable with their own sexuality. If they would have treated Devin, with the dignity and respect that he deserves, they would have looked a lot "FINER" to successful, educated, black men like me!

  137. #137

    Ayden,

    Get out of your feelings, seriously. This is not an indictment on the LGBTQ community... and I can assure you this has nothing to do with my "ignorance" -- more like it has everything to do with your sense of entitlement. You might be all up in your feelings because you feel like we're inadvertently talking about you because we're talking about a FTM in here... but we're not, so relax. You already said he should've joined a LGBTQ org, so this isn't about YOU at all.

    I don't doubt that Devin is a wonderful man. What I doubt is Devin's own understanding of what he got himself into, and I question who's responsibility it is for him to have known. Like I said - I'm not a Zeta, but being a member of a Sorority, I could only imagine how WE would handle something like this. I question why he couldn't have been the bigger man and realized (and respected) that he could no longer represent the ideals of "Finer Womanhood" if he was no longer representing HIMSELF as a WOMAN. I question why he felt as though the ideals and principles of an organization almost 100 years old should bend to his will. If he wanted to be a male AND wanted to keep his Sorors, isn't that simply a case of wanting more than you can have? Wanting more than you're willing to work for? Wanting to have your cake and eat it too? LOL Come on. You can't have it both ways.

    Zeta is a Sorority. The women interact and share and love each other sharing the understanding of sisterhood. I know this because of my OWN affiliation. Why wouldn't Devin choose to respect this and just say, maybe I don't belong here? What is REALLY going on in this country where everyone feels as though they have to belong to everything? That they can't be told NO?

    Maybe Devin DIDN'T want to join an LGBTQ org. Fine. So join an org that you don't believe in, whose principles you don't share? You don't share any of the core values with that org... but you get down anyway? Put that in current context. You choose to STAY in an org when you no longer share the principles? You don't really appreciate the core values? Seriously? Why even waste your money if you don't agree? Love your org enough to step back. Love your Sands enough to not put them in that position. This thing could've TOTALLY played out differently, and the fact that it didn't tells a lot more than this super leading story.

    I disagree with you on him "losing his love when the members played him." He could have maintained his friendships with the Zetas without affiliating. It's not like they were only allowed to talk to him because he was wearing their letters. Lets get real, here.

    Bottom line, Ayden... is this. Our Sororities are organizations built upon the understanding that these women come together to form not only a support system for one another, but a means of uniting with like-minded women to serve purposes bigger than ourselves. Should you find yourself in a position where you are no longer a like-minded woman, you step back. You recuse yourself. The fact that he chose otherwise is telling and rather, well, self-important.

  138. #138

    This woman is confused, because the article states, she wants to be a man but it's attractive to woman. In the picture, this woman appears to be a bull diker. I blame Zeta Phi Beta for accepting a very masculine female into their organization, who think she's a woman. Black Greek sororities are about women acting like women with class and femininity. Sororities are for females, not transgendered, Drag Queens, transsexuals, or men. I am calling out to all black Greek Sorors, please screen people more carefully so this will never happen in any black Greek sorority. This woman should commit herself into Saint Elizabeths Mental Hospital in D.C. or she should move back to her native Connecticut and seek a Physiatrist.

  139. #139

    This woman is confused, because the article states, she wants to be a man but it’s attractive to a woman. In the picture, this woman appears to be a bull diker. I blame Zeta Phi Beta for accepting a very masculine female into their organization, who think she’s a man. Black Greek sororities are about women acting like ladies with class and femininity. Sororities are for females, not transgendered, Drag Queens, transsexuals, or men. I am calling out to all black Greek Sorors, please screen people more carefully so this will never happen in any black Greek sorority. This woman should commit herself into Saint Elizabeths Mental Hospital in D.C. or she should move back to her native Connecticut and seek a Physiatrist.

  140. #140

    I'm not sure who is someone familiar with the traditions of black greek life..however Devin would look ridiculous even trying to challenge the other Zetas (specifically his prophytes). Everyone must appear uniform and by not wanting to wear the same shoes or whatever the case may be is just one of the problems that Devin should have considered before beginning his journey into Zeta. of course the main question is..why would devin value finer womanhood...if he doesn't identify with his OWN womanhood?

  141. #141

    Great point Cherry..."Why would Devin value Finer Womanhood…if he doesn’t identify with his OWN womanhood?" That is also something my Soror's should have thought about too...she/he gave them enough signs!! If Devin even though about challenging ME or folks who PLEDGED me..oh my.....

  142. #142

    All of these comments are funny. Slave to the Rhythm and Pull up to the Bumper Baby in your black limousine.

    My songs were hot in the gay clubs back in the 90's at Tracks in D.C. are the Garage in NYC. The black greek and Soror boys and girls partyed for days in the down low. LOL LOL

  143. #143

    All of these comments are funny. Slave to the Rhythm and Pull up to the Bumper Baby in your black limousine.

    My songs were hot in the gay clubs back in the 90’s at Tracks in D.C. and at the Garage in NYC. The black greek and Soror boys and girls partyed for days on the down low. LOL LOL

  144. #144

    I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, and I am disappointed with Alton-Smith. First of all, she is NOT and NEVER be a man 'cause SHE (yep, I said it! You are a female, CHANISE!) does NOT have male testicles! Second of all, what in the hell she was thinking going inside the MEN'S bathroom? She will get arrested for that! Is she a damn fool? She should't join in the first place is she want's to be called a dude. She should've join a GLBT organization, and he/she/it would been in peace. To Delta Soror, Pink & Green, and the rest of you idiots downing my sorority, SHUT THE H*** UP and attend to your OWN business. You might have some he/she/its in your organization

  145. #145

    First off, you should never refer to any person as an it. We are all human beings and no one deserves to be put down to the point that they are deamed an it. That removes that persons level of humanity.

    OK, now that that is said. I am a trans-woman myself so I understand Devin in regard to his gender identity. I would like to point out that you would not be happy if someone went around referring to you with opposite pronouns of how you identify to people you don't even know. This is disrespectful on any level.

    I do understand the posters who have raised the question about why he would join a sorority. That is one only he can answer but there could be a multitude of reasons. If GW does not formally recognize his gender identity, than it could be very hard to join a frat. This article does not give any indication as to if he tried to do this or not. There could also be a family history with this sorority and he was pressed by his family to join. There are a lot of factors that we do not know. Regardless, blatant disrespect of that kind is not OK. There were many things that the leaders could have done in private and not in public and as a cohesive unit if they would have had the capacity to treat him as a human.

  146. #146

    It was Devin/Chanise NOT my Sorors who went to the media and made it PUBLIC...destroying sorority items etc. BUT I still fault my Sorors for even entertaining Devin/Chanise memebership into Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc which is why I am reading about this fiasco now...embarrassed and angry as hell!! The LAST thing my Sorority needs is MORE negative publicity...make NO MISTAKE this here is real damn NEGATIVE! Really disappointed in how irresponsible GWU's chapter and the governing grad chapter over them was in this matter.

  147. #147

    ZetoSpr90, you make an excellent point. It's embarrassing to all of us women in black Greek sororities, not just Zeta.

  148. #148

    Ok, I am very open minded and religious. I am not going to make comments or pass judgement on Devin or Zeta Phi Beta. My only question is why is there confusion about what it means to be a male and what is means to be a female? Plainly stated the reproductive organs make us male or female. That is a fact, I promise. The other arguments about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman are acceptance issues. We, humans, should accept people who decided to change their gender or are confused about gender, but the things that constitute being male or female are the reproductive organs. Those people who are born with both, if that is even possible, are the only gray area in that definition.
    "Acting" like a female is just like saying someone is "Acting" black. It doesn't make you female or black. How do females act? How do males act? How do blacks act? You get where I am going with this. Yes, we have societal norms, but honestly, there truly are a variety of examples of femininity. Just because a female is "butch" she is still a female. Yes, it is her right to act "manly" and we should accept her.
    My last question is the same as many others. If Devin had/ has gender identity issues why would he even want to join an organization that has gender specific requirements? We all want to belong to somewhere, but he probably should have looked for a group that would better help nuture him and one that would fit all or most of his needs.

  149. #149

    IT IS OBVIOUS THAT MANY OF THE READERS AS WELL AS THE PEOPLE INVOLVED ARE IGNORANT WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSGENDER ISSUES. DEVIN JOINED BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO BE A PART OF AN ORGANIZATION THAT CLAIMED TO REPRESENT VALUES THAT HE FELT HE SHARED. BY LAW HAD HE DECIDED TO JOIN A FRATERNITY DISCRIMINATION WOULD BE LEGAL. FURTHERMORE THERE ARE EXISTING SORORITIES WITH STRAIGHT/HETEROSEXUAL MALE MEMEBERS(CHECK IT OUT). IT WAS WRONG OF HIS SISTERS TO GIVE HIM A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY BY COMITTING TO ACCEPTING HIM FOR WHO HE IS AND INVITING HIM TO BE APART KNOWING HIS REQUEST TO BE REFFERED TO WITH MALE PRONOUNS. THESE WOMEN BLATANTLY DISRESPECTED THE WISHES OF SOMEONE WHO THEY AGREED TO CALL FAMILY AND A SOROR. THE DECISION TO EXTEND AND INVITATION SHOULD'VE INVOLVED A SERIOUS DISCUSSION INVOLVING ALL MEMEBERS OF EXPECTED BEHAVIORS, AND LESSONS IN TRANSGENDER SENSITIVITY. THE REPRECUSSIONS SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED AS THE TRANSGENDER LIFE IS A VERY SENSITIVE ISSUE. IF THE ISSUE WAS BROUGHT TO THEIR ATTETION AFTER THIS TIME THE AFORMENTIONED DISCUSSION SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE THEN. FOR THOSE IN THE ORGANIZATION THAT DEFINE FINER WOMANHOOD AS GENDER SPECIFIC CLOTHING, I IMAGINE IGNORANCE IS BLISS. A FINER WOMAN IS VERSATILE AND ALL ENCOMPAASING. IN RESPONSE TO THOSE REFERRING TO DEVIN AS A "BUTCH" LESBIAN, HE IS NOT A LESBIAN. HE IS TRANSGENDER.TRANS DEFINED AS ON THE OTHER SIDE. THEREFORE HE IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF HIS BIOLOGICAL GENDER, HENCE MALE.END OF LESSON...MOVING RIGHT ALONG. I AM ASHAMED AND SADDENED THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS STILL CLING TO RELIGION TO JUSTIFY IGNORANCE AND CANNOT ACCEPT THOSE IN THEIR COMMUNITY WHO HAPPEN TO BE GLBT. I THINK MY SORORS WERE CONFUSED BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD CHANGE HIM, THEY WERE WRONG. MAYBE THEY FELT IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE A BETTER EFFORT. AS A LESBIAN MEMEBER OF THE ORG I WISH I KNEW DEVIN TO OFFER WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT TO MY SOROR. DON'T GET ME WRONG I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH HIS ACTS. AS A MEMEBER I AM ANGERED THAT DEVIN FELT THE NEED TO DISRESPECT MY SHIELD AND LETTERS. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THIS BEHAVIOR AND THE MATTER COULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH IN ANOTHER WAY.
    HOWEVER, I HOPE THAT THIS INCIDENT WILL ALERT D9 ORGANIZATIONS THAT TIMES ARE CHANGING AND THIS ISSUE WILL BE SEEN AGAIN AND MUST BE ADDRESSED. I WISH DEVIN ALL THE BEST AND I ASK THAT MY SORORS DO A BETTER JOB OF OPENING THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS.

  150. #150

    Girlfriend, cry me a river. boo hoo

  151. #151

    Ok.....I feel like this.....It was kind of foolish for my sorors to allow him to join. I have no problem with transgenders however it is a sorority. Sororities are for women. Now if that is what He wants to do I can respect it and dig it but it is hard for another woman for refer to their soror as he or him whe they are a woman and they are in a organizations that is just for women. He more than likely wanted to be in the organization for valid reasons. I do not know him personally however I feel that you can not be mad and or pissed when you join a sorority and you think that another soror is going to refer to you as a male. I fault my Sorors for not really looking at whom they were bringing into the organization in all honesty.

    But I hope that everything works out for him.....

  152. #152

    I think they are both at fault. Him for thinking that they were going to refer to him with masculine pronouns. Come on you still had all the pysical markings of a woman. And the sorority for making him a member. What did they think was going to happen, joining was going to make him want to behave like a female again. Seriously you both had to have some idea of what you were getting into. Both sids should have had a little more tolerance for the other party.

  153. #153

    TRUEBLU thank you very much htose are the things I have been trying to say all along. No I never said this was about me at all. I only stated i understand how Devin feels since I my self am trans.

  154. #154

    TrueBlu
    How are you going to call someone a "soror" who wants to prefer to be a man? I WOULDN'T! Sororities are for WOMEN ONLY. If Devin/Chanise wants to be a dude, she shouldn't joined from the get-go! Plus, people have the right to accept it or not. IT'S A FREE COUNTRY, DUMMY! Devin/Chanise had given my sorority a bad name, and she should've kept this to HIMSELF/HERSELF instead of bashing this out to the public.

  155. #155

    I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THESE GAY, LESBIAN,TRANS-GENDERED, AND BI PEOPLE. I HATE THAT. THEY DON'T DESERVE ANY RIGHTS AT ALL.

  156. #156

    A BUNCH OF BS!! This is too funny!

    Would you be saved (Accept Jesus) become a christian, join a christian church but ask the members to call and treat you like a Muslim?

    So are you a Christian or a Muslim? Do you believe in Jesus as the Son of God or Muhammad as the Prohpet of God?

    You cant be both. Even if you believe in both, you cant label yourself w/ one of the titles of that specific religion but claim you are both. You have to be either or, not both. if you dont want to be, then create your own religion!!

    For those who see this as a human rights issue I can kinda see where you are coming from, but open your eyes to reality.

    This issue is nothing more than a selfish act on behalf of Devin trying to test her limits and feel some form of acceptance. For her to think that her journey/life as a ZETA would be smooth sailing without any hickups, was outragous. Regardless of her life pressures or factors that may have infulenced her descision, she should have enuough common sense to know that this move was going to stir up a lot of controversy and problems for her and the ORG. Yes, I understand she wanted to be accepted and all that stuff, but dont try to be a part of something that you dont agree with, or that doesn't support your belief system.

    Would you become a member of the NAACP they ask the members to call you a NAZI?

    Would you register as a Democrat but ask everyone to call you a Republican?

    NO!!! Then dont join a womans organization that values and supports womanhood "as women", when you are legally and biologically a woman, but you want them to call and treat you like a MAN, becasue you think you feel like a man.

    Dont get me wrong, the Zeta's at GW failed horribly in their process of chosing a canidate, probably because they felt they were being open-minded and accepting with the times, but look where they are now.

    I am pretty liberal and dont have an issue with the GLTB community. I do have an issue with the GLTB people that want to find acceptance by changing the dynamics of positive organizations. If those Orgs have good traditional values and purposes that help society, then dont touch it.

    People today are too damn soft, they want to blow the legal whistle anytime they dont get their way, or if their feelings are hurt. When are there going to be laws that protect an Organizations traditions and right to choose its membership based off of the values of the interested aspirant? As long as they are fair, moral, dont descriminate on the base of race or religion, and support the betterment of mankind. These organizations should be able to deny membership to anyone they please.

    If DEVIN wants to be viewed as a man, then he needs to act like a man. DONT JOIN A WOMANS SOROITY! POINT BLANK! I know the rebutal argument of the physological factors and socially influenced ideas of what a man or woman really is? but come on people be honest with yourself. Gay or Not this issue has nothing to do with legal rights.

    To all my D9 Orgs, Protect your shield and values, everyone cant be a Delta, SGRHO, Zeta, AKA, Kappa, Que, Sigman, Alpha, or Iota.

    Tf they could then we would have no purpose.

  157. #157

    I am standing up and applauding you LBS :EVERYONE CAN NOT BE IN THE D9...REAL TALK!!!!!

  158. #158

    Its amazing what people will do when they are pressed for members and I think that's what the whole situation boils down to. They should've gotten to know him/her better. Greeks say "not everyone can be Greek" but yet they seem to be letting everyone in.

  159. #159

    Browngirl PLEASE BE CLEAR...this is ONE CHAPTER not all of ZETA PHI BETA SORORITY INC!!! Don't get it twisted the Zeta's at GWU are dead wrong for this fiasco.

  160. #160
  161. #161

    After reading this article and some of the comments made, I have to voice my opinion. This mess is exactly what is wrong with society today. If Devin wants to be a man - do it on your own. He didn't need a sorority to help make that possible. To my fellow Sorors who obviously was misguided at the time of intake, I really hope that this situation sets the precedent for the next s/him that decides to use Zeta as a way to gain attention. As for the opinions of those who feel that Devin has been mistreated, I say to you s/he has been misguided. Zeta was founded on principles that most of it's members highly regard and accept. The organization does not need or have to change to fit potential candidates or members. The requirements have been outlined and it is up to the members to make sure they are followed. Now as for Devin, a person has the right to be whatever he or she deems to be; but they do not have the right to be a Zeta. Membership is a privilege and is extended to those who have agreed to adopt and carry out it's mission. Along the way, that was truly forgotten in this situation. I think that my Sisters in this case befriended an individual whom they felt needed guidance and mistook the need to help as a need to invite "Devin" into the Sorority - which clearly was not the answer. (Justification noted when "Devin" became mad and the destroyed Zeta paraphernalia). As a lesson learned, Zeta is not the World's Change Organization, and just like every other Sorority, it is time that we re-set the standards of our Membership to include WOMEN who want to make a difference in this country and abroad not people who just want to be DIFFERENT. One love Sorors. "Perti F'95"

  162. #162

    Non-Greeks and Greeks, for the most part, have different perceptions of this issue. As members of female-only and male-only organizations we understand the issue at hand. I have seen several homosexuals become members of these organizations, which is fine. If you have something wonderful to offer, I love it! But Chanise did not change her mind in a matter of weeks on her gender preference. She had been thinking about it for a while. The members of Zeta Phi Beta should not have offered membership. It's okay to say no. If Chanise was really passionate about the principles of Greek life she would have joined an organization that wasn't gender specific or began her own Sorority/Fraternity.

  163. #163

    I see this as a lesson to all of us that we need to be very careful when offering membership.

  164. #164

    *APPLAUDING LOUDLY* Amen LBS!!! This entire case is obvious. This a a girl who "feels" like a man and identifies with being a man but joined a sorority in which their main principle is FinerWOMANhood and gets mad when they expect her to act like one...This isn't rocket science here.

    She used Zeta to bring her situation to light and to gain exposure. That's it. The women of ZPB should've never accepted her. As a Greek member, we have the right to give/take membership away from anyone we chose if they are not abiding by the standards we have set forth.

    If she wanted to feel comfortable then a co-ed frat would've been a better choice. No one is knocking her on her "lifestyle/choice" and this is not a human rights issue. Appearances are key in Greek org because we always want to live and portray a certain image and being a man in a sorority IS NOT one of them. She was confusing the prospects.

    This is stupid. If I was a judge...I would throw this case out.

  165. #165

    Kappa1911 said @ post 114
    "This he/she/it need to be committed into a mental istitution... If there’s a God and I believe there is, I know he’s not please with the sin and confusion happening on earth."

    To be clear:
    1. Being transgendered makes you insane
    2. Being able to read the mind of an omniscient space ghost makes you sane-- so sane that you are qualified to tell others how to live their lives.

    Zuh?

  166. #166

    As being a member on Zeta Phi Beta sorority I find this story as an emberassment. First and foremost if you are a man or identify yourself as a man then No, a sorority is not for you. Breakdown barriers and join a fraternity, because they are for men. Secondly, when did he advise the sisters he perfer to be call a man. Because I am hoping they would have used better judgement before even allowing a man into our organization. We are and always have been by invitation only, and by invitation is the only way you can get in through our doors and any other sorority and fraternity doors. The issue here is gender and not sexuality, because you can be a lesbian and identify yourself as a woman, but when you identify yourself as male then I take issue. I am sure any other of the devine 9 organizations would as well. When people invite people into their organization they need to realize that person whom you allow in refelcts the organization as a whole and not just the chapter that they are allowed in. It is important to think how would this person represent your organization on a national level. We are not just a club for your friends! Not all your friends are reflective on your sorority or fraternity principals. This story is very one sided and I find it interesting and I am wondering what did the young ladies know about this young woman before they sent her an invitation, from reading this story, they did not find out till they extended the invitation, and this is something that should have came out when she sought to join the organization. In conclusion, Devin should have set the stage and created an orgainzation specifically for transgeneders, and not join one that founding principals is sisterhood, and finnerwoman hood. He knew that what the organization stood for and she/he identified herself/hisselft as a male.

  167. #167

    I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Inc. I am very concerned about this craziness I am reading here. Chanice obviously does not love Zeta because she would put my organization in the news in a negative light. To add further insult the defacing of my greek letters is a total slap in the face and was totally unnecessary..If she does not want to be affiliated with us anymore then just go away.Chanice please stop using Zeta to advance your own personal agenda and if you have any love at all left for Zeta you would not "air our dirty laundry."

  168. #168

    The fact that the sorors at GW allowed Chanise to join the sorority was a clear indication of lack of judgement on their part. I realize that the sorority is going through alot right now and membership may be down, but at this point, I have to ask, is Zeta that hard up that they are now admitting self-confessed "transgenders" to the fold? I also wonder if they didn't see some of this coming? How did no one see this as a problem. The thing that is key to me is the fact that the graduate advisors were in on this process the whole time and didn't have the wisdom or forthough to see this coming. Your responsibility as a graduate advisor is to guide the undergrads into making an educated decision. The fact that Chanise/Devin was admited to Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. was an oversight on the parts of many people. I wish I could say that it will be ok. I wish that I could say this will be over and done. The truth is that it will not be ok. The sorority is the joke of the national pan-hel as it is. Please, make better decisions. Read your history books and go back. How many of your founders would condone this behavior? How many of our ancestors and families would condone any of this. Wow. How far we've come, but how long we have to go.

  169. #169

    This is in response to jcjfmama stating that my organization is a joke of the pan hel...How dare you put down another organization, If you are greek I am sure your organization has stuff that you wished did not leak out and wish that you keep in the closet. I am sure you have had chapters that have let in less desirable members for canidancey. Also, an advisor cannot tell an advising chapter who they let in for membership first and foremost. So before you go down talking my organization as a whole because of what one chapter does I suggest you do your research on all the organizations. There is not one perfect organization out there and we all had sorors and frats who made mistakes but that does not take away from the hard work that organization does. Zeta Phi Beta is an hard and I do mean hard working organization. We do a lot of good work in the community just like all organizations. I have friends from all walks of greekdom and we talk about how our houses are not perfect. So I wish you would keep your comments strictly about the campus of GW and Devin bt do not disrespect my organization, because we are, still and always will be a group of hard working women. And again all organizations are not perfect and every organization has made it mistakes so keep Zeta name out your mouth unless your speaking of Zeta in a positive light. Thank You

  170. #170

    jcjfmama

    My Fraternity believes in the concept of the inclusive we..I feel that it is safe to say that my Sorors share a similar standard.. There is nothing wrong with admitting members with what most African American may categorize as questionable sexualities..[but I do feel as though we should now be aware of the baggage that may come with this... possibly organizations should update constitutions and draft contracts to protect their rights...It's a new day and age since 1906,1908, 1911, 1913, 1914, 1920, 1922 & 1963) there are a lot of openly gay members in every D9 organization.. I feel as though devin came to my Sorors from the far left with this one.. Read the article those that brought her through had just about left.. Everyone is different, the same exact way devin is[in terms of their beliefs].. The current sorors had no say in what occurred.. devin is looking for attention. This is her attempt to have her 2 cents and 15 seconds of fame in the GLTB forum.. kudos to you devin! this is great! Once again another member of your community strikes more anger than shedding of positive light and proper dialogue..

    Lastly how DARE you disrespect the letters and shield of Zeta Phi Beta[let alone any other organization].. This action did nothing but once again spark anger and even less support from those that you seek understanding from... you should have practiced what MLK had practiced in his time.. Simply approach the situation in a more peaceful and less childish playing manner..

    you should have simply returned the all of the Nalia, told our sorors you no longer want to be apart of the organization because you feel as though you and them (technically your chapter) are not on the same page..

    To all other Sororities and Fraternities speaking rubbish about about ZPB as a whole organization.. they should give themselves a round of applause... You have succeeded in falling through the cracks and into the darkness... you have temporarily lost sight of the "light" and have taken personal issues into the playing field of the bigger picture... OVERALL BETTERMENT OF YOUNG COLLEGIATE AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN AND WOMEN!....This alone is my MAJOR peeve about the divine nine...

  171. #171

    I am in complete agreement with Tasha concerning jcjfmama. You are entitled to your personal opinion but a) as either an outsider looking in who knows very little about our sorority and it's definitely none of your business or b). a fellow Greek you ought to know better than to generalize a whole sorority based on the actions at one school. It's a sign of ignorance. As far as the joke of pan hell...as opposed to who? A sorority that had to deal with the scandal of letting two women drown that was quickly brushed under the rug or the one that lets in a ton of members but can't seem to keep them active. The point is that every sorority has its issues and the moment you start pointing fingers there are at least three pointing back at you so if your own house isn't in order than I think that hardly gives you the right to judge. My sorority Zeta Phi Beta is full of amazing women doing great things and if you only focus on the negative then you miss the true purpose of the organization.

  172. #172

    Soror Tasha I agree with your comments to jcjfmama. How stupid can you be to disresepct an entire organization which had nothing do with the misstake of one chapter. (They are all young. You live and you learn. Mama needs to just shut the heck up). She must not have read the history on own organization. Nor did she think about the current issues surrounding her own organization, her home, her job, her community. Everybody has problems. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones but this chic has two hands full! People do see the work that is done in the community by Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Inc. Why do think others are coping our programs?

    I never thought about the fact that Devin/Chanise may have joined just because she was friends with another Zeta. This would explain why Our principles, Our shield, Our business meant nothing to her. I am going to pray that things work out for her and that the Sorors on the college campus will move forward as they continue to be about the business of Zeta.

  173. #173

    Amen Sorors Tasha and Chloe. Only other greeks (if he or she is one) waste time downing other org's.Clearly you can tell this is an isolate incident...this isnt an epidemic all over Zeta.

    Furthermore, how sure are YOU jcjfmama it's not happening or happened in your org? Disrespecting my Sorority and Sisters... shame on you...your org should be embarrassed by your behavior.

    This individual used Zeta to make a statement for his/her own personal agenda. And because GWU chapter and the grad advisors over them were not on their game; she had a platform which NEVER should have been an option for Devin/Chanise in the 1st place!!!

  174. #174

    Sexuality/sexual orientation - A term used to describe a person's affectioal, emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attraction to another person.

    Sex - The biological equipment which prompts society on how to treat/or mistreat a person

    NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH GENDER

    Gender - socially/culturally constructed (invented) characteristics (which are then attributed to the different biological sexes)

    Gender identity - A person's internal self-awareness of being either male or female, masculine or feminine, or something in-between.

    Transgender - A person whose gender identity differs from the biological/physical sex to that which they were assigned at birth. Also used as an umbrella term for people who do not fit neatly into the gender binary of male or female. Some people change their anatomy to be more congruent with their self-perception, while others do not

    Transsexual - A person who changes one's anatomy to be ore congruent with one's gender identity. This may or may not include sex reassignment surgeries, hormonal therapy, or other means to have one's physical appearance match the gender with which one identifies.

    In Post #161, makes a parallel to Devin (female-to-male transgender) in a sorority and democrats/republicans, christians/muslims. Those things are not the same. Religion and politics are social beliefs that shape one's identity. A more accurate correlation would be hand dominance. We each are born left-handed, right-handed, or ambidextrous. Sometimes people who appear to be right-handed are people who (due to unfortunate old school techniques) are left-handers who have been forced, taught, or who have learned to "be" right-handed. A lot of people are too caught up in what is socially acceptable that they forget it's not what hand one can write with, it's the things one writes. Bodies are simply vessels for our souls.

    Devin is a male and that is something he has carried inside of him. An innate feeling. However, he was socialized as a female. He understands how it is to be treated as a female and even to live as a female

    I guess Greek Life is based on appearance rather than soul?

  175. #175

    My take on this is different from most of the responses I read. This is really none of our business, adn I'm not sure why Zeta business needs to be spread and debated. Debating gender identity issues is fine, but why put Zeta on blast? It was the same thing with the guys in DC calling themsleves AKAs. Everybody doesn't need to be in everybody's business.

  176. #176

    As a transwoman, while I totally sympathize with Devin's feelings of disrespect and transphobia by members of his sorority, I still feel a sorority (no matter how you feel about the Greek system) is a woman's space. If you don't experience yourself as a woman, then you don't belong there. While I well understand the conflict Devin might feel while he's exploring who he is, it's not that hard to imagine if you increasingly ID as 'he' you don't get to play the 'still female' card. This is an issue in the transmen's community -- those who want to live as men, but refuse to let go of their space in women's communities, in lesbian culture, and go to women's colleges as men yet run back to their female identity when need be. I think the story would be more interesting if the sorority admitted a transwoman like Isis from ANTM. I suspect the transphobia would be the same (if not worse), but at least I'd feel the transwoman would have a more legitimate right to be there.

  177. #177

    This article is too one sided to even come true conclusion. As a member of Zeta Phi Beta it,s not about disliking "Devin", but representing the principles of the sorority which she/he pledged to uphold. So any member of the organization that is not upholding those principles should be reprimanded by the chapter president.

    Devin was not kicked out of the sorority but did not meet the requirements to remain an active member, therefore she is an inactive member.

  178. #178

    Reading the article I don't think "Devin" identified himself as transgendered when joining. It just doesn't make sense. He/she identifying as male wouldn't even want to be a part of a sorority...an organization for women. His/her own confusion has the entire organization looking bad. If you identifying as a male why do you want to be a part of a sorority/ a sisterhood? I definitely don't think any member of Zeta would allow someone who identified as ? a male to join their sisterhood. Is Devin a gay transgendered person. Girl who identifies as a guy but likes girls? Help me understand.

  179. #179

    I read the article and it is one-sided. Chanise joined Zeta then became Devin. If sh/he is identifying as a guy why would he want to be part of a sorority. Why is he/she looking for acceptance when he/she doesn't know what they want. Is Devin truly transgendered must not be, because most transgendered people I know want to be treated in terms of the sex they changed to. So a girl becoming a guy, would want to be treated as a guy. So Chanise becoming Devin would want to be treated as a guy. Guess what guys are not members of sororities. What are you really identifying as Chanise / Devin or does it depend on the circumstance?

  180. #180

    The article was interesting.
    Personally, I think the article was one-sided because there was no choice for it to be anything but - as noted, the sorority undergraduate and graduate members would not comment. Which, I'm certain, is in the best interests of the organization as there are clear legal ramifications in the works.

    I'm a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. and I am also a lesbian. My organization accepted me for the woman I am, of which my sexual orientation is a very small part. The one message I managed to take from this situation is this:

    ALL OF US need to get to know our prospective members, and find out as much as we can: we need to have an in-depth knowledge of those to whom we extend membership. And then, even after the time is spent getting to know; we need to understand that we still have no assurances. We just may never fully know these people. Situations will occur. As we all know, people will definitely lie to kick it.

    It's very unfortunate that things had to turn out in such a negative way. Harsh as it sounds, when you make a mistake in offering someone membership to your organization, the blame generally does have to fall back on those offering -- I mean, just because Devin expressed interest in being a member, is that a good enough reason to have membership offered?

    Being a member of any of the D9 is privilege, not a RIGHT. While I feel horrible for the obvious turmoil that Devin is going through, it's also quite clear that if his intention was never to be anyone's 'sister', he should not have joined a sisterhood.

  181. #181

    Wow, these comments are interesting I’m not bashing ZphiB or any other black Greek organization but when situations like this occur, it weakens their credibility.

    The D9 does a lot of good in the community but the media will always focus on the negative. This private dispute has gone public all for the simple fact that it appears the GWU chapter did not take the time to get to know Devin.

    I agree with Tasha’s comments. Black frats/sororities should NOT just be clubs for friends. People should be chosen based on the qualities that were set forth by their founders years ago. Not because you are “pressed” for new members.

    What was the point of even having a line if something like this was gonna occur? They would’ve been better off with just the four girls they had on campus. Even though I still fault the chapter for inviting Devin in, I feel for sorry for them that this situation had to happen so publicly. People really need to evaluate the purpose of why they were founded and not get blinded by their own selfish motives.

  182. #182

    Judging from the article, I don't think Devin hid the fact that she was trangendered. I just don't think they looked hard enough or asked enough questions.

  183. #183

    I find these comments unbelievably hateful and painful to read. The bottom line is that many people (even those who are GLB) believe that transgender people are unnatural, sinful, discusting, confused, etc. etc. Such people believe that trans people shouldn't even exist because they challenge our society's mores about gender. It's male or femle, right? No other iterations are possible! Why is someone who's a little different so incredibly threatening to people, so much so that many trans people have been *murdered* simply for revealing their identities? Looking at someone's soul is what matters: are they compassionate and loving? Or do they judge and hate?

  184. #184

    As a current student at GWU, before Devin's entrance into the sorority Spring 2008, she was an andro lesbian. I don't know when she changed over, but she was not trans around the time she probably showed interest. I think she sprung it on them. Point blank. If she was considering the change while she was showing interest, she should have thought about her decision more. Only she knew what she was thinking. She didn't have to divulge any of it. Its just like when a person is gay and doesn't want anyone to know, so they pretend for awhile until they are ready. If they are good at it (which a lot of people are), no one will know until they let it out of the bag. I think the Zeta's were alright with her lesbianism (since there are gay people in the other organizations and they do the work of those orgs) but it seems as if they were blind-sided way after the fact. Its too bad.

  185. #185

    Also, did any one look at the stuff though? It seems really crazy. If someone's going to be mad about something like this, throw it out. But tearing it up, and leaving it on the doorstep? It seems like something a mentally ill person would do. She needs to take hold of her emotions and make some decisions.

  186. #186

    I am truly shocked in some of the comments that have been made in this article. I'm sure that in each of your organizations it discusses Christ somewhere and yet you all have truly forgotten about him and his purpose. We claim to have relationship with him and yet we can't even have love for eachother. You all have called eachother some ugly names, you have passed judgement and most of you don't even seem to care. Everyone is representing their organization and bringing shame at the same time. Did anyone every stop to wonder how this would feel if it were you or someone you know? Every day we loose a life to suicide because society is not accepting of someone because of their gender and yet you all didn't even see the cry for help. There are many young boys and girls that look up to you all to be examples and yet you all have let them down. You should be ashamed and if not I'm ashamed for you. Please remembr GOD's message. Love One Another as Chris has loved you.

  187. #187

    The purpose of any organization is to network with like-minded people. There are at least two Greek-letter organizations for Devin to choose to join - one is a sorority for lesbians and the other is a fraternity for female-to-males. Devin should charter his own chapter, if he wants to be a part of such an organization.

  188. #188

    I've seen this before. It's ok for a national organization to have a smaller group of open-minded individuals willing to accept the "unaccepted." However, the smaller group and the "unaccepted" individuals cannot change an entire organization overnight. To try can be liberating or completely devastating, and you have to be ready to handle what comes your way. It's a sad situation for Devin and Zeta.

    Devin could have done two things to take the presssure off: 1)joined a specific LGBT organization to be accepted within the smaller group AND the larger, national organization and 2) sought legal counsel before making the attempt to join Zeta, or any other group like Zeta. And now, other traditionally gender-specific greek-letter organizations may start legally nitpicking to keep LGBT's out.

    This should prove an interesting battle...

  189. #189

    I personally agree with the sorority. Everyone knows before joining a greek organization that in joining the organization, they have an image to maintain. If Devin wants to pretend to be man, then that's fine but don't try to do it while being in a sorority. It does present the wrong idea to outsiders and refutes the main idea of a finer womanhood.

  190. #190

    As a member of Zeta Phi Beta, I personally feel that this chapter made a SERIOUS

  191. #191

    I do believe that if Devin wants to be referred to as a he then he should be able to do that. I am completely open minded and have gay/lesbian/trangender friends however I am concerned. I do not like to wear skirts or heels but as a member of a sorority I have to sometimes and I understand my sorors belief of womanhood. I do not identify as male though. It does not make sense to join a sisterhood, or a sorority (made up of females) if you identify as a male. If you are a male than a sorority is not for you. I would think that if Devin is male, he would choose a fraternity or no organization at all. It is unfortunate the way things unfolded for him but that was a bad decision on his part.

  192. #192

    Wow. I really had to read this article several times to make sure I was reading it correctly. As a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Inc., I am appalled!! First I would like to start by saying that I am a heterosexual female and I in no way can identify or relate to the life of a gay, lesbian, or transgender person. I however do not discriminate on how a person classifies themselves. I don’t say that I agree with it, but I’m sensitive to the struggle that persons who identifies as gay, lesbian or transgender has. I watched my college roommate/friend struggle with being accepted as being a stud. With that being said I’m not here to attack Devin’s sexuality. I DO NOT however agree that this female, who obviously feels whole heartedly that she identifies as being male, should have gotten this far to be apart of my organization. But who is to blame? I hold the Sorors of this chapter who entertained the thought of granting this opportunity responsible. Who needs a refresher on what my principles are, Devin or the Soror’s who initiated “him”!! There is no way that I will accept that no one knew that Devin wanted to identify as a male. You find out a lot about people by just observing their actions, and listening to them when they talk. Regardless of whether Devin verbally expressed his intent or not, it was the members’ responsibility to know the aspirant. Someone knew enough to know that Devin’s interest in Zeta was questionable. How can a female who identifies so much with being a male (that she is using a male restroom!) tell me anything about Sisterly Love, and Finer Womanhood? The whole membership process should be treated like a job interview process, because at the end of the day, setting aside the social aspects, this organization is a business. Employers don’t hire randoms to have the privilege of representing their company or corporation!!! So I do not understand why the Soror’s from this chapter did not take the same pride in fully understanding Devin’s intentions. All I can say is that I’m disgusted by the sloppy work that was done by the members who initiated Devin. If she was unsure about the happenings of her personal life then what the hell could she bring to the organization….? This incident should not only be a concern to the members of Zeta Phi Beta or to Phi Beta Sigma, but to ALL Greeks, especially the Divine Nine! Although our colors may be different and we all fight to prevail on top, we all hold a responsibility to not only represent our respective organizations in a positive manner, but to do the same collectively for the entity in which we all represent , which is the NPHC! And for those people who may not be greek and who don’t understand what the concern is over this…take the time to google the history of Zeta Phi Beta, or Alpha Kappa Alpha, Delta Sigma Theta, and Sigma Gamma Rho. Look at it, and tell me where it lists a man’s name as being a pioneer of any of the organizations! The same for the fraternities….look up the history of Phi Beta Sigma, Alpha Phi Alpha, Kappa Alpha Psi, Omega Psi Phi, and Iota Phi Theta…no where will you see a woman’s name being listed as a pioneer of their organizations!! Our organizations would be lost if we steered away from what our founder’s work so hard to establish! We take pride in preserving the uniqueness, secrecy, and history of our organizations!!!

  193. #193

    What the heck is this story about? If he's a trans man he doesn't belong in a fraternity. If he's a trans men why isn't he on T? Doesn't look like he is anyway. No, I suspect he isn't a trans man at all. No he's some flavor of genderqueer. And the fraternity shouldn't have let him in to begin with. I'm sorry Devin but YOU DON'T belong there. And this is coming from a fully transitioned transsexual woman. You want to be a man? Then be a real man and start T and join a FRATERNITY.

  194. #194

    While we are protecting everyones rights to be called whatever they want....should I call a racist master because he feels he is better than me!? We have been placed on this planet the way we are for a reason. Just because I take a fish out of water and strap feathers to it does not make it a bird. Come on people wake up! What about the rights of the guys who cant go in the bathroom and feel comfortable becasue someone like Devin wants to go in teh bathroom with them. It just seems like an infringement on the rights of being a man. If we where supposed to be mixed then all bathrooms would be together and there would be no sexes. Excuse me but I dont care how many hormones you take your body is what God makes it and that is what it will be forever. Just because we humans feel we can play God doesnt mean that we are God. Its somewhat sad that we have to sit here and alter everything we do to fit someone elses life style, do whatever you want but dont force it on other people thats just sad. If it walks like a duck talks like a duck then it must be a duck and just because we injuect it with the trait of a human doesnt make it so. If you want respect earn it, when you are forcing these things on people you make it harder on yourself!

  195. #195

    disappointed_zeta, i think you hit the nail right on the head. i'm sure it must be difficult to read about this going on in your org.

  196. #196

    Devin is a self-declared female-to-male (FTM) person. Ok. He doesn’t want to be referred to by his former female name. I’ll take him at his word and grant him full FTM transsexual (TS) status. But then I have to come down on the side that would deny him sorority membership.

    This story inspired me to think of something else. I would have loved to have been in a sorority but when I attended college I was male-bodied. As female as I might have felt that would have been awkward, and not just for the sorority sisters. But maybe that’s me. Maybe someone else who feels female inside but is still male-bodied would not feel out-of-place. But the other girls might feel uncomfortable.

    What if the male-bodied but female-self-identifying individual was applicant wasn’t entirely “male bodied” anymore. What if the person presented well as female – face, clothes, mannerisms, voice – what then? Would it depend on t=whether or not the person still had male genitalia, or would everyone say it’s ok so long as she’d had sex reassignment surgery (SRS, aka gender reaffirming (or just plain “affirming”) surgery – GRS/GAS), meaning she jow had a vagina. Think about it because it’s coming. The number of young male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals having surgery shortly after they turm eighteen is growing rapidly.

    A German MTF transsexual just had surgery – at age sixteen. When she was twelve she’d already been been rigorously screened by medical doctors and psychologists who diagnosed her definitively as a MTF transsexual. They okayed her hormone treatment to block pubertal testosterone so she never went through male puberty and her body never turned male. She’s a very pretty and totally feminine girl. She's also just the first of many.

    Young postoperative transsexual women are already starting college. Most of them are stealth – no one knows. No one would know. Their documentation has been changed to reflect their female status and there’s no discernible clue that they’ve ever been anything but female. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were already several who’ve done it. Nor would I be surprised if one or more sorority sister would know and was at ease with it because these ts women are female. Women know these things. I know. I'm a post-op MTF transsexual woman.

    But maybe one of these pre-op girls would not be so cloaked in secrecy. What will happen then? Expect her to make the six o’clock news when she applies to join a sorority and is outed.

    But a pretty post-op is an easy case. What if she isn't pretty? What if she doesn't have all the feminine graces? Another way to express that is to say she doesn't "vibe" a female very well. What then? Would it be all about looks? Tougher case?

    Actually, this has already happened - on Tyra Banks' "America's Next Top Model." Remember Isis King?

    Stay tuned… film at 11:00.

  197. #197

    This person is no transsexual. A true transsexual feels like the opposite sex exclusively and acts like it.

    This person wanted to be a man and a woman at the same time.

    These types of people such as the one in this story don't have real gender problems. They are a bunch of psychopaths who want to make their own rules up and live by no one else's.

    Most social subordinance in this world is gender based peer pressure. These people are trying to escape any type of subordinance and responsibility with cop outs of gender issues unlike real transsexuals who subordinate as and accept the responsibilities and limitations of their gender. Gender excuse based cop outs seems to be the trendy thing to do, especially amongst psychopathic queers.

  198. #198

    You'd think that African Americans would be very understanding of discrimination, hatred, and withholding basic human dignity from another person after what they went through with slavery. Looks like they're just as closed minded, and petty as the white population that they rallied against in the 60s.

    It's not about human rights. It's about political power.

  199. #199

    Nat Hentoff, why should blacks only be singled out on being understanding of this issue, and not Hispanics, Middle Easterners, Africans, Asians, Polish, Greeks, Italians etc.? Do black people always have to be the poster children of acceptance of issues they don't support for religious reasons? This person would not be accepted in any Middle Eastern country, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Panama, El Salvador, Colombia, Argentina, etc. I have no problem with a woman being or saying she's a lesbian, but this transgendered shit is bullshit.

  200. #200

    I don't think it was either of the parties involved fault. I think it was simply a miscommunication problem. On the comments, I think that as members of BGLO's we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, but that doesn't involve belittling others, or disrepecting each others organizations. This forum is a prime example of why people want to go greek, and why others believe we are anti-christian organizations. With education being a requirement to join any D9 org, im sure that we can express ourselves in an educated manner. Please remember that we as greeks represent our organizations, as well as BGLO's as a whole, before you get on a public forum and make all of us look like thugs, hoodlums, and bigots.

  201. #201

    Shame shame shame. Devin destroyed all of the para...must have been really hurt. I'm sorry you went through that. Too bad you weren't strong enough within yourself to grab your balls and handle your business in school. You should have been on point. Why wasn't the application in on time? Bottom line, Zeta's aren't men! Right? Then that's that. Didn't you go to school for a degree. Ill, Zeta had you trippin like that? I respect you. Be what ever you want but you weren't focused! Where's your degree? No degree? Shame Shame Shame

  202. #202

    O and Nat Hentoff, I'm understanding of discrimination. Y Devin didn't get his app. N on time? Y didn't Devin have his own shoes? Y? BYOB! Cause he wasn't on point...apparently! ZETAs AREN'T MEN! What don't U understand! What ever. If U can't do girlie moves, sit down. Zeta's can step. Who the heck is Devin to change it? Actually, nobody cares if he/she is or was or wants to be he or she. Nobody feels sorry for you so...get your ish together, get a life and get a degree. We all go thru ish. Get over it. ZETAs aren't men! Right?

  203. #203

    I have read the article, talked about it with my sorors, and read most of the comments posted here. This is a bad Situation. I think all parties involved are guilty of thoughtlessness.
    To the soror who saw Devin as an asset to our organization should have taken more time to really get to know Devin. There are members of Zeta that, for whatever reason, prefer to dress in masculine clothes, this soror probably assumed the same for Devin. But when the time comes to representing Zeta Phi Beta SOrority Inc., they present themselves as a Zeta Woman within their own idea of who they are. And as far as going into the initiation process saying "Refer to me as a man" this should have sent some red flags to everyone involved. There should have been some kind of fore thought that Devin, would have a problem upholding our principle of finer womanhood.
    The four sorors left on campus trying to uphold and maintain an Image that is Consistent with Zeta Phi Beta's Founding principles, they handled the situation the best they could. Thinking of Devin as a "Soror" they assumed that they could be blunt and state how they felt about how Devin Represented an organization to which they were all a part of. They were simply trying to portray an image that they all could be proud of, because when you are in an organization, you are no longer just yourself, you are a reflection of who you have associated yourself with. When you do something bad, it is going to be remembered as something done by a Zeta and bring reproach upon Zeta Phi Beta and all the women who wear our letters. They should have tried to make her understand that they weren't asking her to change, just asking her to represent Zeta the way our founders wanted it to be.
    As for Devin, who went from being "anti-sorority" to being a soror. I don't think Devin was thoughtful, or understanding of the situation she was walking into or what she was putting her sorors through. It's no coincidence that a man with locks joins Omega Psi Phi, ends up with a shaved head on their probate. Or a man who starts to wear suits and bow ties because he is now a member of Kappa Alpha Psi. They are now representing their organization as well as themselves. Devin took this as a personal attack of intolerance, but its not. People want to go through life thumbing their noses at conformity, but its a necessity. You want a job with a fortune 500 corp, you going to have to sport a more cultured look and conform in appearance as well as behavior to the position you are trying to obtain otherwise you aren't going to get it. There's a reason why they ask people to look the part, because then there is no confusion of what you represent. Its not a definition of who you are. I don't think Devin thought out what he wanted. He walked into a sorority, which he got in because not only of his birth sex but because he displayed qualities that would an asset, then didn't want to conform to sorority life, which by its nature means being feminine. Devin should have known better than to join a woman's organization, if he truly wanted to go through life being treated as a man. I think he was more than a little arrogant for how he behaved, he didn't mind using his birth sex to get what he wanted, but got pissed when asked to concede, at least as far as events go, to be more like a "Zeta Woman." He wanted the job but didn't want to wear the uniform, and got mad when he was told he couldn't work.
    I love my organization, but being a Zeta is a privilege. I am honored to be found worthy to uphold our founding principles. It's not for everyone. There are plenty of young ladies who would aspire to be a Zeta, but for whatever reasons would not be able to uphold our principles. Its doesn't make them bad people, or any less of a person, they are just not "Zeta Material" and therefore it would be foolish to let anyone else into our organization that can't uphold them. I am proud to Be a "ZETA WOMAN"

  204. #204

    I am getting sick of hearing both the arrogant extreme liberal argument of "force the agenda down everyone's throats" and the arrogant and extreme conservative bigotry and hate mongering that is no better than the Christian Right websites on here.

    Nat's case is NOT comparable to slavery.

    Nat has the FREEDOM and thus the RESPONSIBILTY to apply for a fraternity rather than a sorority.

    The safety argument that Nat made is not valid. There always has to be some guy who is the weakest man in any social organization. None get to join women instead simply because they are too weak to fend for themselves.

    This argument is just as absurd as a biological male who demands that a fraternity accept her as a woman because of the feminist argument that fraternities have far better practical benefits for joining than sororities.

    If he presented himself completely and sincerely as a man and was completely sincere about his willingness to subordinate to the rules and traditions of a fraternity; than he would have had a valid social complaint of discrimination. As would that German pop star Kim Petras would if she applied for a sorority and was rejected for being transsexual.

    It is not as if the Zeta’s WON”T accommodate him but rather CAN”T accommodate him. IF the Zeta’s did accommodate him, they would no longer be a sorority but rather a mere mixed gender social organization.

    The only valid liberal argument about this situation being handled better was that when Nat demanded that he be treated like a man it should have been immediately respected. The Zeta’s instead continued to treat him like a woman even demanding he wear women’s shoes and do women’s dance moves knowing he considered himself a man.

    Treating him like a man would have meant expunging him from their membership rolls since a sorority is an all female social organization.

  205. #205

    My comments are premised on the following assumptions: that prior to being invited to join the organization Devin informed the membership of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority that he is a woman that identifies as a man, and wants to be referred to as “he” or “him”; and that with full knowledge of Devin’s status, they invited him to join the sorority.

    To my GWU Sorors who invited Devin to join our sorority, you failed!

    I pledged Zeta in the 1980s, things were different then, but one thing has not changed…Zeta Phi Beta is a sorority that prides itself with being comprised of women who exemplify the essence of Finer Womanhood. The concept of Finer Womanhood contemplates something more than just being born a girl. Finer Womanhood means that you embody and embrace the grace, elegance, sophistication, and wisdom of a woman. With this understanding, how could Devin, a person born a girl, but who identifies with males, and who, according to this article, exhibits the outward manifestations of a man, get an invitation to join our sorority?

    I am not knowledgeable enough about gender identification issues to comment on whether it makes sense for someone like Devin to seek membership in a sorority. Based on some of the comments made by other transgendered individuals, Devin’s desire to join a sorority given his gender identification seems questionable. I’ll leave it to them to judge. However, I am sufficiently knowledgeable about the organization I pledged to know that Devin, from the outset, was no finer woman, and therefore, not Zeta material.

    By inviting Devin to join the organization GWU sorors undoubtedly gave Devin the impression, if not an outright confirmation, that he was good enough just as he was. Why then should Devin expect anything less than full acceptance from his sorors? Perhaps in his mind, he had found a place where he could be himself amongst people he believed would accept him. If Devin really felt welcomed, and joined the organization believing they accepted him, then Devin had every right to insist that they treat him as the male he openly professed himself to be. Yet, this is a notion so preposterous given the sororities precepts, I certainly would not want to be in the shoes of those sorors who were left to deal with the poor choices made by sorors who are now long gone!

  206. #206

    I agree with a Finer woman.

  207. #207

    One way the Zeta's could repair their image after this debacle would be to recruit an African American transsexual woman that is like the German pop star Kim Petras.

    A person like that would of course be:

    1) Fully and sincrely interested in finer womanhood.

    2)Subordinate to the rules and traditions of the Zetas

    3)Oriented towards advancing the sorority rather than the sorority advancing her.

    I am not saying the Zetas should do this. I am not going to posture. I am merely offering a suggestion that may help if no other solution is in sight to help the Zeta's overcome their publicly tarnished image as transphobic bigots.

    Formal written policy regarding existing members coming out as transgender as well as new pledges would also be wise.

    Even if a sororer could not formally remain in the sorority or even live in a sorority house once presenting as a man does not mean that they should totally abandon a close friend at a time in their life when they need them the most.

    Written policy on how far a male to female transsexual would have to transition and how well they need to present themselves should also be defined including whether or not to accept them at all.

    One Note: Keep in mind that surgery is at least $15,000 and not covered by insurance yet in the USA. As college students, I am sure you are aware that not many of your fellow students have access to that kind of money.

  208. The voice of reason
    #208

    While there is plenty of blame to go around in this situation, perhaps it is best to put some perspective around all of this.

    No organization, particularly a Fraternity/Sorority can be all things to all people. If it were possible, there wouldn't be more than one. It is therefore important for Greek organizations to have some reasonable boundaries around being inclusive, and those who choose to live outside of those reasonable boundaries are perfectly free to create organizations of their own. No matter what we say, Greek Organizations are (by the very nature that we vote on members) exclusionary to some (key word) greater or lesser degree.

    Some would say "yes, but your discriminating against [insert group here]". This is true, but we also discriminate against people with low grades.

    The bottom line is that the more an organization tries to be all things to all people, the more it counteracts the sense of common purpose that inspires fraternity in the first place.

    You cannot please everyone, and to try is pointless.

  209. #209

    Amen @Trueblu---you have said most of what I've been thinking as I read this article and the pursuant comments. As a proud member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc., I am very saddened by this article. However, I find some of the comments that followed to be even more depressing than the article itself. Yes, sororities are for women---we all know this. However, as the article clearly stated, Devin is biologically a woman and the law therefore protects him in his choice to join a sorority. I don't even begin to claim to understand why he would want to join a sorority. My personal opinion is that living life as a transgendered person, in this society that is still so full of judgement,discrimination, and pure hatred for things we don't understand, has to be hard enough. Adding on the hardship of trying to be a male in a sorority setting has to make life that much harder. I feel bad for him. Though I find Devin's choice to join my sorority to be rather interesting, I don't fault him for all this nonsense that is going on now. I fault my sorors. Based on the article, it seems that Devin presented himself as the man that he identifies as from the very beginning. Once he disclosed this information to them, my sorors had a choice to either accept it or move on. By extending membership to him, they acted as though they made the choice to accept him. However, that's clearly not the case. I only wish that the advising chapter for the undergraduate sorors at GWU had taken a more proactive role in handling this situation better. This is truly a mess. I, too, am tired of Zeta's dirty laundry being aired---it's very unfortunate. Inactive or otherwise, I will always consider Devin to be my soror and hope that things work out for him.

  210. #210

    Shame on you Dani! Neither of the Bible verses you quoted have anything to do with transgendered people. I'm tired of people misquoting the Bible to support their points of view.

  211. #211

    CB, you are so true, I don't think they know what a Eunuch is. lol

  212. #212

    Wow. The Zeta's can't catch a break, huh?

    Clearly someone should have thought this all the way through befor inviting Devin to join. Devin also should have applied more thought. How can you self identify as a man, join a sorority and then reject their ideals of womanhood?

  213. #213

    miss mary @68 and 75 - your very miserable and crazy...you have so much hate for blk greek letter organizations and gays (and im sure many other things)... were you denied by a sorority? did a girl diss you when you tried to holla at her? MISS mary - not married, huh?? i wonder why...go kill yourself

    on another note...our organizations are SOCIAL organizations with no rights for automatic memberships... i really dont understand why she wanted to "join" and then go against traditions, etc. i'm gay..like so many other members of frats...but i would never do anything to embarrass my frat, enforce any negative stereotypes, etc. nor would i ever support anyone who dressed in "drag" to ever become a member of my frat or who identify themselves as a "her"

  214. #214

    Ok... So, I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta. I am also very open and understanding of ALL people, genders, sexual orientations, etc.

    With that being said, I have only 4 things to say:

    1) GWU sorors should never have extended membership without having a better grasp of who Devin was.

    2) Devin should never have accepted or pursued membership if he truly believed in his heart that he was a man (sexual preferences aside).

    3) If Devin was truly a soror and believed in the founding principles of Zeta, he would NEVER have desecrated and destroyed his para.

    4) If Devin truly joined our organization for the right reasons, he would NEVER put our business out for the world to see and would have continued the work of Zeta when he had the ability to become active again, either at GWU or elsewhere.

    I bleed blue and worked hard to become a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Incorporated. Nothing could take that away from me. Devin will always be my soror, because Devin completed the intake process. If I meet him on the street, it's all love. However, if Devin is reading these comments, I really hope that if you truly have love for this organization, you would stop dragging its beloved name and 89 years of history through the mud.

    Blue Phi... You KNOW!!!

  215. #215

    What the hell?

  216. #216

    WELL SAID Finer Woman (Comment #214) of course your premise is the key to your statement though. As a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Devin (in my opinion) is not really Zeta material and Zeta (again in my opinion) is not really a good fit for Devin. It appears that one of the more influential Soros may have been dealing with Devin on a personal level and said “hey why not her?”. Bad Move!!!

  217. #217

    To Nupe91, you are one miserable little faggot! I can assure you, I have a Mrs. in front of my name and I am married to a real man, not a faggot like you. You are a abomination. Yeah, you are right, the Kappas are full of sissies in their membership. I don't need to kill myself, but you are already dead by being a fudge packer. (AIDS)

  218. #218

    If Devin did not want to be addressed as a "woman", what was it about finer womanhood that attracted Devin? There are organizations such as Alpha Lambda Zeta, which serve to provide fellowship to individuals such as Devin. I can't imagine after I pledged, the brothers would be accomdating if I declared a preference to be addressed as her, and dressed as flamboyantly as I could.

  219. #219

    Controversies
    Following a February 5, 2006 news report by WJLA, an ABC affiliated TV station, the U.S.'s Internal Revenue Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation and United States Attorney opened an investigation into alleged financial irregularities occurring in the sorority.[8] The purpose of the investigation was to determine if National President, Barbara C. Moore, had obtained funds from the tax-exempt organization for personal gain.[8] During the investigation, sorority member and former National Executive Board member, Natasha Stark was expelled for "violating her duty of loyalty to the sorority, engaging in conduct injurious to the sorority or its purposes, and unsisterly conduct."[8] on March 20, 2007, Starks filed a lawsuit with the District of Columbia District Court requesting $1 million in damages.[9] Stark's claims for breach of contract and negligence were dismissed at a September 11, 2008 status conference.[10]

    Entertainer Sheryl Underwood was elected as the 23rd International Grand Basileus (President), during the sorority's biennial business meeting in Las Vegas, Nevada in 2008. Her election as Grand Basileus was disputed, but District of Columbia Superior Court Judge Gerald I. Fisher dismissed a lawsuit against the sorority and Underwood, that asked the court to unseat Underwood.[11][12][13]

    On July 3, 2008, Lorrie Sinclair filed a Diversity-Breach of Contract contract suit in the District of Columbia District Court against Zeta Phi Beta demanding $76,000.[14]

  220. #220

    MS. MARY, Re: Comment No. 226, WHAT IS YOUR POINT??? Do you have any relevant thoughts on what is being discussed her on this board? Now, let’s not kid ourselves, all the organizations have members who have alternative lifestyles. Rest assured, I am not one of them but sho am I to judge. PLEASE STOP THE NAME CALLING AND DISSING EACH OTHERS ORGANIZATIONS AS A WHOLE. IT IS NOT NECESSARY!!!! Try to "listen" to what other people are "saying" and see their point of view. Even if you do not end up agreeing it is a discussion board and not a place to spew hateful and malicious comments. It's time to gtow up!!!

  221. #221

    I am sick of people like IOTA in comment 225 conflating flamboyant homosexual cross-dressing with transsexualism.

    Transsexuals have nothing in common with you gay crossdressers.

    A true transsexual woman is someone who is incapable of sexual arousal unless she sees herself sexually behaving as a woman. She will always at least technically be a virgin until sex reassignment surgery is performed. Transsexual women do not peer associate with gay males even the effeminate and flamboyant types.

    The same can be said about true transsexual men in reverse. They to are psychosexually inverted; will not associate with butches and tomboys, especially the most obnoxious and flamboyant types like this girl Devin.

    Devin does not look any different in her picture than any other girl. She doesn't even look like a tomboy for crying out loud. Talk about obnoxious; making heavy accommodation demands when almost no effort is made on her part. It almost seems like deliberate mockery on her part.

    You queer crossdressers are sexually aroused by seeing yourself as men having sex with men when sexually aroused. To parody a cliche from the business world - You people "*-CROSSdress for SUCKcess-*"

    Gay men have no right to complain when the general public conflates homosexuality with transsexualism if gay men are going to go out in public and do the same.

    Queers like yourself have no right to complain when the straight majority emulates your behavior.

  222. #222

    Sororities were founded on sisterhood and if "Devin" was denouncing her sisterhood she shouldnt have pursued membership in a sorority. "He" should have become fully transgendered and pursued a fraternity and if that failed then "he" should have taken the initiative to form his on organization. Everyone has to start somewhere. I don't have a problem with people who don't fit what I consider the norm however I have issues with people who try to force their beliefs upon you whether they be political, sexual orientation or even religion.

  223. #223

    The clear fact is Zeta Phi Beta is a SORORITY. Its not a FRATERNITY. It promotes SISTERHOOD. Whats so hard to understand? Further, membership in a SOCIAL organization is VOLUNTARY. To that end, if this dude--or whatever, wanted to be a dude he should have rushed a FRAT. Its obvious he didn't because he felt more comfortable taking on an organization he felt would cater to his desperate cries for attention and acceptance. he's an embarrassment to anyone who has ever found themselves conflicted about their sexuality. GW should deal with him appropriately for blatantly using a system put in place to protect student rights. Devin/Chanise/whatever wasnt harassed. He was was simply called out on his bullsh*t, and I say GO HARD to the Sisters of Zeta Phi Beta! Dont allow one person false cries for acceptance soil the reputation your organization has built over the years!

  224. #224

    I put a hot dog in my butt once.

  225. #225

    @Melissa G - Pls excuse me. I truly am not well versed on the difference between "flamboyant homosexual cross-dressing with transsexualism".

    My point is,if you pledge a fraternity, and decide to declare yourself a woman afterward, I doubt if you will be accepted as a fraternity brother. There are gay men in my org, and it has zero bearing on our working and socializing as a fraternity. I see a brother of IPT as a brother of IPT. But, this development is something else.......

  226. #226

    Haran and Igby have it right. Transgender people should be allowed to rush but only rush Greek organizations that correspond with their gender identity.

    I do not see Chanice / Devin as a transsexual. No real transsexual such as my boyfriend or me would deliberately bring on gender relational disrespect towards themselves from others when they worked and fought so hard to gain relational respect.

    The fact that Chanice / Devin by both appearance and behavior didn't seem to do any work at all other than bitch and demanded that the Zetas treat him like a gender oxymoron shows that her antics were primarily attention seeking with very little to do with gender issues if any at all.

    Iota: I realize you re not. That is why you come across as an insecure, ignorant transphobic, bigot like so many other gay men do. Now that you are better versed you can feel more comfortable as a gay man by seeing just how distant transsexualism is from homosexuality; even homosexual transvestism.

    I agreed with the very point you made in a post earlier. Than Chanice / Devin's demand is just as arrogant and obnoxious as a biological male living as a woman and joining a fraternity insisting that she has a right to do so because she is biologically male and fraternities have superior practical benefits to sororities (a feminist argument).

    I would not even consider such a person a transsexual any more than I do Chanice / Devin. I would see him as nothing more than an obnoxious and narcissistic attention seeker.

  227. #227

    Actually, i'm not gay, but admit I have learned something about keeping an open mind to listen to a different perspective that I would not ordinarily be privy to.

  228. #228

    Iota: I apologize for presuming you were gay. I hear what you said before from many gay men online but never heard it from a straight guy.

    You probably reiterated sentiment from someone you know that is gay. That is probably why I mistook you for being gay. Again, my apologies.

  229. #229

    This makes me wonder about the male student from George Mason who recently won the homecoming queen award or something to that effect. From my understanding, he is gay, but is not a cross-dresser. So did his actions (by entering and winning) promote understanding or confusion?

  230. #230

    Probably both… The difference between a she-male and a drag queen is that a she-male is a sexually motivated homosexual cross-dresser versus a drag queen that is merely a socially motivated homosexual crossdesser.

    All homosexual transvestites were considered queens prior to the Stonewall Riots. Queen broke up into these two main categories afterwards when gays started organizing and mainstreaming.

    She-males probably got the idea of calling themselves non-op transsexuals when the porn industry became popular.

    The only way these people could get approved for the partial transition surgeries such as breast implants was to fake transsexualism and then bail out of what was at the time government funded programs.

    Non-op transsexual is a contradiction of terms or oxymoron. A transsexual has always been historically defined as someone who either wants a sex change operation or has already got one.

    Transsexuals can be divided into two types: Total Psychosexual inverts that can only be sexually aroused by seeing themselves sexually behaving has a member the sex opposite of their birth genitalia. These people are forced to be at least technically virgins until surgery is performed. This is called brain to genitalia disjunction.

    The second and more common type are people who have had plenty of sexual history using their birth genitalia with and on other people: gay, lesbian, bi, or hetero and yet want a sex change operation anyway. Such people will always be psychosexually that of their birth sex regardless of what surgeries they obtain.

    Having a home coming queen that truly is a queen is ironic all right.

    Drag queens at least do openly differentiate themselves from transsexuals and identify as gay males. Most drag queens live 90% + of their life in male mode.

    The problem though is the gay media group who conflates true transsexual women with she-males stating that the only difference between them and transsexuals is choice of surgery which is a blatant and dangerous lie.

    They say the same thing about the difference between true transsexual men and non-psychosexual invert transsexuals that sociosexually peer relate to lesbians rather than heterosexual men such as pregnant man Thomas Beatie and porn star "Buck Angel - The man with a Vagina that loves using it sexually as all one of the same as well.

    Most of the people in here that support Chanice / Devin’s obnoxious, narcissistic,oxymoronic demands and chastising the Zetas are gays and lesbians proselytizing the GLAAD (Gay and Lesbians against Anti-Defamation) agenda.

  231. #231

    My name is Shanana Jenkins and I live across the hall from Martin & Gina. Miss Courtland Milloy of the Washington Post tried to come for Madea as being a Drag Queen. 95% of the comments made in the Washington Post were against Madea as being a Drag Queen (Mable Simmons).

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/24/AR2009022403303_Comments.html

  232. #232

    To ALL: Some blacks aren't the only one's homophobic. Girlfriends, Lebanese, Moroccans, Salvadorans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and whites have many homophobes in their groups too. This Bull Dyke was wrong for trying to join a female sorority stating she's a man. She's not a dam man; it's all in her mind. This "COW" needs some serious psychological therapy.

    Hey, if you’ve ever watched “The Wire” on HBO or BET, you’d know that Felicia (Snoop) Pearson has fooled audiences into really thinking she is a guy. She’s got that masculine swagger that makes you want think twice about which public bathroom she uses.

  233. #233

    I used to be in favor of people trying to display non-binary or non-traditional gender expression as long as they are honest, realistic,objective, and most of all RESPECTFUL about what they really are; especially in relation to other people.

    Their obnoxious, narcissistic, solipsist lies and psychopathic bullying of people to accept their lies are what alienated me from supporting them.

  234. #234

    If you want to be referred to as a man consider a 'frat',
    If you want to be referred to as a woman consider a 'sorority' CASE CLOSED....this individual is definitely confused.

  235. The Notorious Nupe!
    #235

    First of all, this thing did not do the appropriate research. Had he/she or it read about black sororities, he/she or it would have realized that these organizations are designed to promote, support, and to strengthen black woman. If it identified itself as a man, then it should (as everyone has stated above) have attempted to join a fraternity.

    Second, why did the chapter take this person in the first place? They knew the drama and walked into with their eyes wide open. If they could not adhere to he/she or it's request to be identified as male, then they should have never voted it in! Did they expect the person to change?

    I agree with frat's statement above...every organization has their share of gay men and women. But, this is out of control! I would have never voted this type of person into my organization. If they did make it...I would have four words for them...Get in the Kut!

  236. #236

    Melissa--I really hope youre writing a thesis of some sort b/c you are ON-POINT! But we can discuss/debate this until the Jonas Brothers loose their (alleged) virginity...however at the end of the day, I'd really like to know what WHAT DOES DEVIN/CHANISE/WHATEVER hope to get out of this? Has anyone wondered about that?

  237. #237

    Unfortunately, I have only a GED education. As a transsexual woman, I had to learn how people really are rather than what they say they are for my own physical safety and social protection.

    What I have learned is that with both gender and sexual orientation, people can only be sexually classified or sub-classified based on their sexual history and not self-identity, third-party hostility proselytized identities or gender stereotyping of social behavior.

    This is why married men with children who get sex changes rarely present themselves well as women. No matter what surgeries they go through or what emotions they may have that make them think they are women, they will always have the same heterosexual male brain that allowed for several thousand orgasms and several children from vaginally penetrating women.

    Drag queens have the opposite problem. Their sexual behavior is far closer to that of a heterosexual female rather than a heterosexual male. Their flamboyant manners combined with wearing women’s cloths frequently have people mistaking them for women and then they are very offended.

    This may explain why your typical effeminate gay seems relatively closer to being a woman than a married father with children who got a sex change operation. It’s because their sexual behavior is closer to being a woman than the former.

    Then there is bi-sexuality in women. There is a huge difference between naturally bi-sexual women and those who only engage in such behavior to please a man. The first type is a psychosexual bi-sexual who sees herself sexually behaving as a woman with both men and women when she is sexually aroused by herself.

    The second type is an emotional masochist who is aroused by humiliating herself to please a man whereas the man is aroused by the power trip. This behavior is identical to behavior my boyfriend seen in a movie where hoes were performing oral sex on pro football athletes while the athlete was defecating into a toilet bowl. It is also similar to a man who gets turned on by being forced to dress like a woman and have sex with men from a mistress or dominatrix. That is called forced womanhood.

    The one noticeable sexual behavior difference between a psychosexual bi-sexual woman and a masochist engaging in bi-sexual behavior is the psychosexual bisexual regularly has sex with women without the presence of or benefit for men!

    Another interesting sexual behavior is in men’s prison. The sexual attraction between inmates is usually not male on male but rather stronger inmates being attracted to inmates they see as female substitutes.

    Last but probably not least are your trendies and posers who deliberately say they are gay or bi when they are not. A lot of high school lesbians say they are bi- because it is far more acceptable than admitting to being a lesbian despite little or no psychosexual capability with men. Former New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevy came out as gay despite a bi-sexual sex history and acquaintances claiming he is bi rather than gay.

    As a white woman, I hope I do not sound bigoted but I have heard that bi-sexual denial amongst African American men is higher than most other races. I also heard that an African American bi-sexual man having sex with another man is referred to in the African American Community as “going on the down low”. Gays (especially African American gays) like to blame violent homophobia in African American males for this behavior when it is obvious that an African American bi-sexual man fears rejection from heterosexual women if it was known he was bi-sexual to a far greater extent. It is like the Rolling Stones song Satisfaction goes: “I can’t get no girly action!” No heterosexual woman in her right mind would risk the higher probability of contracting disease by having a causal sexual affair with a bi-sexual man and /or the certainty that it is only a casual affair and not a serious relationship.

    People believing other people based on self identity are an anti-social’s greatest dream come true. Wouldn’t you love to go into a bank to withdraw money and have the teller believe that you are the name on the account of the biggest customer they have based on your self-identity alone? I am sure the answer is: Hell Yeah!!! Yet people do this with the LGBT population. I can never seem underestimate the gullibility of people

  238. #238

    To answer your other question Igby: This person was looking for a power trip but had to settle for lots attention to satisfy her narcissism.

    Wouldn't you or any other guy you know like to be the only man around living with a bunch of other women? I am sure such an arrangement would make any guy feel like an alpha male.

  239. #239

    MelissaG, your statement about blacks being more homophobic than other races is not true. In the Middle Eastern culture, homosexuals, drag queens, etc. are killed or looked down upon by Allah. In Panama and many other Spanish speaking cultures, homosexuality is viewed very badly. Hispanics out number blacks in the United States and most Hispanics don't approve of homosexuals. As a matter of fact, many whites in America don't approve of homosexuals. Many of the white racist gays running around in D.C. came from some small southern or midwestern town to get away from their family members and friends. Gay D.C. Councilmembers David Catania and Jim Graham are 2 examples.

  240. #240

    Question: How is homosexuality regarded in the Koran and how is treated in current Muslim society? What countries have the toughest and most stringent views towards homosexuality and which countries are more passive and liberal towards the practice? Is there interference by the government into private sexual practices in the UAE and other Arab countries? And finally, what are the range of views of preachers
    and imams on this subject?

    Answer: Homosexuality like in all the Abrahamic religions is treated with utmost seriousness and strictness. Islam considers homosexuality to be worse than adultery. But at the same time it tries to be very lenient. The main reason it is not allowed is because it threatens the existence of mankind.

    It is like a contagious disease that spreads across the society and that can result in the extinction of mankind. It is an unnatural practice. It goes against the laws of nature where a man and a woman attract towards each other and they satisfy their desires with each other.

    When people from the same sex sleep together, there is no pregnancy. When people from the same sex sleep together, it results in more people being attracted towards homosexuality. Like this, homosexuality spreads and when most, if not all, people of the society satisfy their desires in this unhealthy manner, the birth rate drops sharply. This can lead to the extinction of the race.

    Sexual desire according to Islam is not a bad thing like in Christianity (I have heard). It is taken as a mercy and blessing from God. The problem is with whom you satisfy it. Satisfying it with your wife is an act, which is highly encouraged and rewarded.

    Many people suggest that Islam has hard and fast rules and are extremely harsh. We first have to see that the rules are harsh for hideous crimes against society. Secondly they are made to be hard to enforce.

    The harsh punishments act as a detriment for the normal people and a severe punishment for the criminals. Although capital punishment is prescribed for sodomy, it can only be administered after four just witnesses have testified to the sin being committed in their presence. The extreme degree of leniency in Islamic laws is apparent here. If an individual shows just enough decency as not to commit a filthy act in public and that too for fear of being put to death, Islam does not allow his fellow-beings to punish him. Further, if the sinner repents before the four witnesses have testified, he cannot be put to death. But if the testimony is complete, penalty cannot be reduced and the guilty has to be killed.

  241. #241

    Miss Mary: I was not trying to imply that African Americans are more homophobic than other races. I was repeating what I have heard from gay people, especially African American Gays. I personally do not believe this.

    You did mention Islam and homosexual prohibition. It is interesting to note that Islam considers a sex change operation within Allah's Law. The world’s oldest Islamic university, Al-Azhar, in Egypt issued a Fatwa permitting sex change surgery as has the Iranian government and other fundamentalist Islamic governments. The Iranian government will pay for those who cannot afford it on their own.

    http://montages.blogspot.com/2004/08/changing-sex-changing-islam.html

    Of course such a person would have to be completely heterosexual in their re-assigned sex and would have to live with all the responsibilities and limitations of that sex.

    This is something that would not have boded very well for Chanice / Devin if she were in an Islamic Country as she considers herself a gay male and refuses to accept the responsibilities and limitations of her stated male gender.

  242. #242

    I too am confused as to why he chose to join a sorority, and even more confused as to why the sorority let him join...but this has been an informative read, I have learned a lot.

  243. #243

    As a member of this Organization, I am sadden but not surprise! I have watched how different chapters lowered the standards of Zeta Phi Beta each year in accepting women that clearly do not exemplify Finer womanhood. I have been disgusted for a while. I was just sitting and watching and waiting for something like this to occur. This should be a lesson Sorors...Get IT TOGETHER!! There was no reason why this person should have been a consideration. One of the problems that I see with our organization on an undergraduate level is that there is we are so concerned about quantity and not quality. Some chapters are too concern with what other sororities are doing and how many women they have. Maybe our organization needed this as a wake up call. And I just hope that girl gets delivered from her confusion before it's too late. GOD BLESS.

  244. PROFESSIONAL CONSULTING SERVICES, INC.
    #244

    GWU ZETA'S:

    I know that FREE ADVICE can be hard to COME BY, but here are a couple of REASONS why I have decided to HELP YOU OUT:

    1. WE are in a RECESSION and since you only have FOUR members, you PROBABLY DON'T QUALIFY for INSTITUTIONAL FUNDING.

    2. I KNOW that the EXPENSES, WHICH I INCURR while completing PRO-BONO CONSULTATIONS are TAX-DEDUCTIBLE.

    QUESTION:

    WHY would an ORGANIZATION that ONLY has FOUR members, at a University which ANNUALLY ENROLLS over TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND STUDENTS, be preoccupied with evaluating the SO CALLED "PERFORMANCE" of a person who has already JOINED their GROUP?

    MY ADVICE?

    FIRST, I would restore DEVIN'S MEMBERSHIP, since he never did ANYTHING WRONG ANYWAY!

    THEN, I would ask HIM IF ANY OF HIS FRIENDS WOULD LIKE TO JOIN THE GROUP, since it is obvious that NONE OF YOU HAVE ANY!

    IF YOU ARE LUCKY, you might even be able to recruit enough MEMBERS to get a GROUP DISCOUNT at the STUDENT STORE!

    LET'S be HONEST... ANYTHING less WOULD be UNCIVILIZED,

    JORDAN

  245. #245

    Jordan have you been smoking "CRACK"?

  246. #246

    I would recommend that gender conforming (hyper conforming preferred), heterosexual, biological males apply for membership into the Zeta sorority.

    Being down to four members and desperate to recruit more, they actually recruited a man!

    This would be a dream of a lifetime. You can spend your college days feeling like an alpha male surrounded by women. Think of all the sexual access that would go with that power trip!

    The only obstacle that would get in your way is the strong likely hood that you won't be the only male in their sorority. They just love to recruit them...

    Gay men (especially effeminate) would not likely be accepted; especially if they had something that could benefit women!

    Transsexual women (especially attractive, post-surgical, completely passable, heterosexual, intelligent, charismatic, cordial, and exclusively peer relates to other heterosexual women) that could immensely improve the image of the Zeta's need not apply. They would raise the jealousy and insecurity levels of other Zetas to a point that would be way too disrupting of the Zeta way of life.

  247. #247

    This is unbelievable! Why is it when people speak up for what is right we have to be small minded and ignorant. What does God say about the matter? Have we thought about that at all. Do not misunderstand God loves everyone no matter what the sin. Sin is sin, no sin is greater or smaller. All can be forgiven if you change your ways. The bible states that the only sin not forgiven is blasphemy against the holy spirit. So the person has time. Do not be fooled for God is not mocked! I am no saint but I am foolish enough to believe what God says. Maybe those who approve are not on the same page, but that’s fine, everyone has to meet their maker some day. I hope God will say well done my good and faithful servant enter in. True God made you a gender or a certain reason, no one knows what that reason is but God. Let us not forget that the bible says that homosexuality no matter man or woman is a abomination unto God. If you don’t believe then this is not for you, if you do then pray that God removes the shackles from peoples eyes. Lets not talk about the person but pray for the person. The thought for the day, let he who is w/out sin case the first stone?

  248. #248

    Michelle:

    Homosexuality is a completely separate nature from ether transsexualism or even transgenderism.

    Nothing about this story pertains to Chanice / Devin's sexual orientation.

    Both transsexuals and transgenders can be of any sexual orientation.

    Please do not conflate these separate aspects of human behavior and nature so people can have an intelligent, meaningful, and perhaps a productive discussion.

    As far as God’s will on transsexuals; read my post #250 that shows that Islam supports transsexuals of certain types in certain circumstances.

    The Christian Bible does not have even one passage that clearly and indisputably addresses the issue of transsexualism: Both in favor of or in opposition to. Anything biblical about the issue is merely broad interpretation (and often deliberate misinterpretation) of another concept.

    Transsexualism has been around since as long as human kind and even pre-human kind has been. There have been people since the beginning of recorded history that felt they were born in the wrong body, lived as a member of the sex opposite of what was associated with their birth anatomical sex and pursued medical modification to the best of what was technologically available at the time.

    There was the Mellissae who were the equivalent to modern male to female transsexuals and the Gallae who were equivalent to the modern day male to female transgenderists in the Roman Empire. The Mellissae castrated and emasculated themselves to be fully inducted into the Cybeline Pagan Religion.

    There was (and still is to this day) the Hijra to the East in India who practice the same castration and emasculation rituals as the Mellissae while living as women. Such procedures usually leave a simple cavity with no sensation unlike modern male to female sex change surgery.

    There were eunuchs in Israel at that time as well. I am not certain if any lives as women however. Most did if not all did not.

    There are six passages in the Christian Bible that explicitly address homosexuality and one that explicitly addresses cross-dressing. These two behaviors plus transsexualism is three entirely separate aspects of human behavior. That is why the bible addressed cross dressing separate from homosexuality.

    The Bible could have addressed what was at the time transsexualism as a separate issue from eunuchs, homosexuals, and cross dressers if the writers chose to do so. They obviously all had their own reasons for doing so.

    Many Popes throughout history explicitly and at times directly gave people permission to live as the sex opposite of their birth genitalia without any types of surgery. The Pope before the last one Pope John Paul I (the first) actually recommended that people (at least some types) with a serious gender condition pursue this treatment.

    The following website can provide more information on transsexualism and scripture:

    http://www.whosoever.org/v2Issue2/starchild.html

  249. #249

    Do you remember Sodom and Gomorrah? We are truly living in the last days on earth.

    "Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens" Genesis 19:24. "Turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly" II Peter 2:6.

    Sodom and Gomorrah, according to the Old Testament (Genesis 18, 19), were two ancient cities in Palestine, near the Dead Sea. The Bible almost invariably speaks of them together. With Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar, Sodom and Gomorrah formed the five "cities of the plain", all but the last-named of which are said to have been destroyed by brimstone and fire, perhaps accompanied by an earthquake, because of the indecency and perverse sexual practices of their inhabitants. Later they became prototypes of evil places and there are several tales in the aggadic tradition of the horrible things that occurred there.
    When God made has plans known to Abraham about the destruction of Sodom, Abraham was worried about the righteous people in city. God then promised that he would save the city if He found ten righteous people there. He sent two angels to Sodom, and they encountered Lot at the gates of the city. Lot took the two angels to his house and offered them food and place to sleep. Later that night, the men of the city surrounded his house and ordered that he delivered to them the two men he had taken in. When they tried to force their way in, the angels struck them with blindness. They then spoke to Lot of the impending destruction of the city and told him to leave with his wife and two daughters. He and his family were warned not to look behind when they left to city, but Lot's wife did so and was instantly transformed in a salt pillar.

  250. #250

    please stop Miss Mary.
    This is not church.
    Keep your beliefs to yourself.

  251. #251

    Should have joined Phi Beta Sigma if Devin/Chanise wanted to be referred to as a man...no place for men in a sorority...all the blame can't go on he/she though...if in fact ZPHIB new he/she was transgendered, they should not have extended an invitation to him/her.

  252. #252

    I'd like to know where was the grad advisor? This person was obviously confused her/himself. But why do you invite someone who is walking around acting male? I would not want to think that you need membership that badly, that you take in persons who don't embody the persona of your organization. I would be terribly hurt if somewhere in Delta that this would be allowed,luckily I can feel secure that it won't. Alston-Smith should have approached a fraternity if in fact the pronouns used to refer should be "he" or "him", because sisterhood is for sisters, women who are proud to be women. I feel sorry for her gender challenged confusion and illusion.

  253. #253

    Hmm says, did I touch a nerve you "FREAK"? I bet you are a white sissy and you are Godless. Many whites don't believe in God. These are God's laws, not man's laws. I can assure you, we are living in the last days and a chosen few will enter in God's kingdom and it will not be an abomination of men who think they are women and women who think they are men. Repent before it's too late. By the way, it's called freedom of speech dear.

  254. #254

    Miss Mary, girlfriend read these white sissies up in here. Many of these white sissies are prejudice within the gay community against black gays and lesbians. Pull up to the bumper baby.

  255. #255

    Mary- no i'm black. not a freak. believe in god- Just don't think this is the forum for that.
    I believe in free speech, equality, and love.
    I would hope this would be a place to learn, and express opinions about Devin and his situation, his responsibility, as well as the responsibility of ZPB. Not about racial stereotypes and religion.

  256. #256

    Hmm Says, I doubt very serious you are black Miss Thang! People should be able to express their 1st amendment right in this forum or any forum dear. As I stated, these are not Miss Mary's laws, but they are god laws. Many people like you are godless and are lost souls.

  257. #257

    To Hmmm: God's Law vs Man's Law

    God's law is different to Man's law

    If you break man's law (commit a crime), you may go Jail

    If you break God's law (commit a sin) you may go to Hell

    The Bible teaches us to respect all authorities including the Laws of Man

    God in his Grace and Mercy decided to send his Son Jesus Christ to die on the Cross in our place.

    If we accept this and repent of our sin and put our faith in Christ, our sins are covered by the Blood of Christ.
    If we reject Christ, then we must pay the price for our own sin.
    Should we forgive sinners if they repent?

    Should we invite thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, divorcees, child abusers and spouse abusers into the church?

    What if they are still living in sin?

    What if they are in trouble with the law?

    How will they hear the Gospel otherwise?

  258. #258

    i'm just confused where you are getting the idea that I am not black and "godless"..? just wondering.

  259. #259

    Hmm:

    You are dealing with an insane ranter. Nothing you say will get her off her ranting soapbox.

    She won't answer or even address your questions. There is no point in asking her anything. Doing the same thing more than once and expecting a different result is what is called - insanity -

    Read your posts numbered 259, 264, and 267.

    Then read Miss Mary's comments: 262, 265, and 266.

    Do you think that any of those posts by her are significantly or substantially different from the last; enough that shows what you are saying has an impact on her?

    Do you really think that her next post 268 or higher will be significantly or substantially different from the last?

    Miss Mary is a lost cause when it comes to insanity. I am hoping that you are not.

    Feel free to address me if you would like, even if it is to criticize this post.

    I will respond with original thinking so at least you won't feel insane by doing so (addressing this post).

    If you would rather decline and address the original topic this story is about, I would sure appreciate it as would most other posters.

    I am looking forward to resuming commenting on this story.

  260. #260

    Wow, this is ridiculous. He joined because he liked it and felt comfortable. Obviously, the sisters who recruited him accepted him the way he was- had they not, he never would have considered joining. And don't forget that it's not just a club: you have to work for your spot in a Sor, earn it, and be INVITED.

    Devin doesn't need it, and it's stupid the way things blew up. I chalk it all down to narrow-minded, immature people. Isn't that the point of going to college in the first place, to expand your horizons? If Zeta didn't want a trans within their ranks, they should have never invited him to begin with.

    It makes no sense to wait until he's comfortable in his position, confident in his place to then make waves.

  261. #261

    They invited the wrong gender of transgender. Had they had any bit of sense and forethought, they would have realized that it is not possible to work this way (female to male).

    The other way (male to female) would have at least been possible to work out if an otherwise matching candidate was recruited.

  262. #262

    thank you melissa G. at least someone is with me.

  263. #263

    http://www.alphalambdazeta.com/

    I know someone who is apart of this group.

  264. #264

    Hmm:

    You are quite welcome.

    I have a few pics on a Myspace profile if you are interested in putting a face to a screename:

    http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=138746489&albumId=666237

  265. #265

    Sounds like this is an opportunity to charter an new organization for transgender members. Perhaps they could assist Devin in starting a new organization composed for transgender members which wouldn't exactly be a fraternity or sorority, but a social fellowship. Sorority's ultimately are founded on womanly principals and fraternities on manly principals. While gays and lesbians have been known to join fraternities and sororities, they usually confirm with the standards of the organizations.

    It's like in sports, football players wear football uniforms, not heels and skirts; regardless of social or sexual choices. Devin should have adhered to the codes & conduct of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc.

  266. #266

    I don't get it. Why does someone who clearly wants to be recognized and appreciated as "different" attempt to join such a homogeneous thing as a sorority? You cannot have it both ways. Joining a social club involves adopting group modes, ways of thinking, clothing...

    This whole situation was not thought out at all, by either side.

  267. #267

    Anubis and Patrick:

    The problem with starting a transgender organization is that there are so few people that can be considered such. A campus of 25,000 people may have 1-2 transgender students.

    The problem with transgender is that it is an umbrella term made up of several different types of people that having nothing in common with each other: psychosexually or sociosexually.

    Let me start with transsexuals:

    There are two types of those.

    1) Psychosexual inverts - people that see themselves as members of the opposite sex exclusively when sexually aroused by themselves. These people emotionally and socially peer relate to other heterosexuals of the gender they see themselves as. They will always be at least technically virgins until surgery is performed to this brain to genital disjunction. Such people usually live in mainstream heterosexual areas and often blend into society often not telling other people about being transsexual. Almost all people of this type bitterly resent the homosexual community conflating their sexually motivated transvestites with them as well as their male identified transvestite lesbians. This is something the homosexual community does to avoid public humiliation by being peer associated with their own transvestites. This type of transsexual is the most suitable of all the listed types of people for joining fraternities or sororities. These people are also the rarest at about 1 in 25,000 people. Examples of these types of people are the girl portrayed in the most recent Law and Order Episode titled “Transitions”.

    2) Non-psychosexual invert transsexuals – People who have or had a sexual history (often very extensive) using their birth genitalia with or on other people and achieving sexual orgasm (often hundred or even thousands of times) yet still want sex change operations anyway or have already got them. Such people usually relate to on an emotional level with others like themselves or gender non-conforming members of their birth sex with the same sexual orientation rather tan the opposite genetic sex. These people tend to be mixed on transgender umbrella inclusion. Such people are about 1 in 2,500 people. Examples of these types of people are:

    A) The masculine profession employed father that decides to become a woman during his mid-life crisis. These people peer relate to heterosexual crossdressers on an emotional level even though they insist that they are lesbians.

    B) People who identify as male but have always peer related to butch lesbians rather than heterosexual men and continue to peer socialize far more with butches than men.

    C) Homosexual male transvestites who get sex changes and continue to work in the sexual entertainment industry and peer relate to other gender non-conforming gay men rather than heterosexual women.

    3) Transgenderists – Transvestites that live full time as a member of the opposite sex yet wish to keep their birth genitalia and remain sexually active with it. The people misidentify with the oxymoronic term non-op transsexual. Examples of these types of people are the she-male porn stars and the opposite sex equivalents like Buck Angel.

    4) Genderqueer – people who identify as neither male nor female, or both male or female, or androgynous. They often look indistinguishable from other people of their birth sex. Chanice / Devin appears to be most likely in this category but could be in any of the two above but absolutely not the first one listed. Eddie Izzard and Annie Lennox may fit this category.

    5) Crossdressers – People who identify as members of their own sex but occasionally like to express themselves as a member of the opposite sex.

    Than you have the issue of sexual orientation further dividing people that are in the same categories as each other in the same way that everyone else is divided by sexual orientation.

    There is no reason to exclude psycho-sexual invert transsexuals from mainstream fraternities or sororities other than pure prejudice since such people otherwise function indistinguishably from other heterosexual people of their gender.

    Cross dressers do function as their birth sex whenever they are needed to. Most crossdressers tend to cross dress in private. Most of these people could be in fraternities and sororities of their birth sex since they completely identify as a member of their own sex and function as such.

    The rest of the types of people are usually best placed in the queer community. Since Greek social life is gender segregated, this would have to be an issue to work out with the queer community.

  268. #268

    Ahhh the hell with Alston, the hell with anyone always playing the victim when she specifically went there to create havoc. I don't feel sorry for Alston, she is a confused idiot who sought acceptance in places that she could never get it. I am a black member of Phi Bet Sigma fraternity and i would never consider joining for example a white fraternity full of people who are not culturally mindful so I feel sorry for my sorority sisters and not this Alston. We also don't discriminate against Gays but hell yeah when it comes to Transgender/Transexuals not because of their choice but because it will confuse us and our members so say all you want to say but if it was us we would not even let a deranged person like this he/she in.

  269. #269

    This is a misunderstanding or our core principles. FinerWomanhood is one of them. I have been a member of this illustrious organization for over 15 years and I became a member in the DC in area and also one of the first to come out for te GBTL community. I understood that there were certain conditions that had to be met as far as the dress code. They have been in existance since the founding of our organization. If she wanted to resist then she shouldnt have joined. I don't really feel sorry and no one else should. He/She it doesnt matter in the scope of a sorority (word means sister and not brother). Stop using ignorance as a scapegoat.

  270. #270

    Don:

    People like Alston are what the queer community is about. Gay men are ashamed to be peer associated with their transvestites. They are embarrassed about drag queens and utterly humiliated about she-males who live as women and sexually active gay men simultaneously. Lesbians are no better. Their organizations see lesbian transvestite types as the third gender that will take down patriarchy for them. Yet, lesbians are just as humiliated by their transvestites that go around saying that they are men but peer socialize in the lesbian community. This is what Alston is

    Rather than deal with this issue with any bit of responsibility, gays and lesbians have their media organization GLAAD (gays and lesbians against anti-defamation) conflate homosexual transvestites with real transsexuals in an attempt to disassociate from them. The asinine concept of gender fluidity theory and a transgender umbrella grouping of people with nothing in common with each other is how they deceive the public.

    This puts transsexuals in heightened physical danger and severely damages their ability to properly peer associate with heterosexual people of the gender they identify with. Psychosexual invert transsexuals live in mainstream heterosexual communities rather than queer or queer friendly communities, peer associate exclusively with heterosexuals of their gender and rarely associate with LGBT people to a greater extent than most other heterosexuals..

    Psychosexual invert transsexuals can be completely socially integrated into mainstream society unlike homosexuals, even gender conforming homosexuals like you are.

    The only way people can function in a group is if either everyone has sex with each other or no one has sex with each other. No one who doesn’t wish to have sex with other people in a group would invest time, money, emotion, or effort into a socially corrupted group where some people have sex with each other while others do not. This is why incest is banned. No one would continue putting anything into a family in which some blood members have sex with each other while others do not!

    With psychosexual invert transsexuals (especially post-op) often no one would even know that they are transsexual for years on end unless they told other people. They function completely like heterosexuals of the gender that they are unlike homosexuals (even gender conforming ones like you)!

    To say that gays are a better fit into heterosexual fraternities than psychosexual invert transsexual men is laughably absurd and even asinine!

  271. #271

    What we all need to look at is her/his process. The intake process did this. Not that it's all bad but he/she doesnt know anything about the organization, let alone a sorority. As far as the Kappa and Omega who are making comments check yourself. Look at your membership the Gay community is everywhere even in our organizations. We all know that when it comes to business sexual orietation doesn't even matter. And to all my sisters and brothers in greekdom we don't have to change to accomodate this - she can start her own sorority or fraternity because now there are actually GBLT ones online and in most states.

  272. #272

    I believe that this article is one sided, but the fault lies in both Devin and the sorority. Its partially Devins fault because he knew that even though the sisters were very open to him that it was a WOMANS organization. Now I also put some of the blame on the sorority because they don't have to accept everybody's application. Also this situation is a catch 22 because as you can see the sorority is catching flack because they let him in and they would probably catch flack if they didn't accept him either. I still believe that Zeta is a very open sorority to have let him in in the first place and for a sorority to do that is very commendable. As for people who don't accept him in the sorority maybe they need to look within themselves to find why they are not as welcoming as their other sorors.

  273. #273

    oh.. but personally I would have been a good friend in the first place by saying hey I don't think that joining the org. is a good idea. We welcome you to participate in our activities and such yada yada yada.. I

  274. #274

    Ok so. This is some f#@king b*llsh#t. I blame the sorority for extending the membership invite. Is this Devin person suppose to be upset because things did not go his/ her way? Zeta has been and will continue to be without her! They do not need any lesbians trying to change the face of Zeta and screwing up the good thing that they have done for the community. Let the founders be the super heroes and not "Devin". This sounds like the biggest cry for attention.

  275. #275

    MelissaG, you need to give it a rest and let it go. Please give black Greek members of Fraternities and Sororities to comment on this ridiculous idiot Alston and article.

  276. #276

    Correction

    MelissaG, please go away and stop writing all your lengthy comments, because no one gives a sh$t about your being a “FREAK” of nature. You are not a woman and you weren’t born with ovaries. It’s my understanding, you are white, therefore why do you continue to make comments about a black Greek Sorority that you don’t have any knowledge? This young girl who acts like a bulldiker, but think’s she a dam man should have never been allowed to join the Zetas. The Zetas should have turned her down based on her manliness.

  277. NUPE/Alpha Iota Chapter
    #277

    Reading this article is the most ridiculous piece of reading I've ever read. It appears, the ZETAS at mostly white George Washington University were disparate for black female membership. On many white college campuses, black Greek organizations don't have the flavor as on a HBCU campus. I am not going to blame this young woman or comment on her sexuality. Members of Zeta Phi Beta, Inc. at George Washington University should have never allowed this woman to join their Sorority. I know this story have caused an embarrassment for older professional Sorors in this Sorority. Yes there are punks/gays in the Kappas, but they are not allowed to conduct themselves at a Kappa function like a bunch of sissies or girls. Keep your sexuality private and what you do in private with a member of the same sex. Your sexual preference is or should not be anyone's business. Unfortunately, you have some who want to flaunt this type of behavior in others faces.

  278. #278

    I don't discriminate when it comes to blood, because all blood is red. LOL LOL

  279. #279

    Well I guess MelissaG has left the building,LOL and Dracula get a life!!!!Not Funny...this is a serious topic of discussion...

    Bottom line this Chapter needs to be shut down until the grad chapter can rebuild and recruit some young ladies that exemplify what we, the members of Zeta Phi Beta, stand for...

  280. #280

    As an undergraduate student at North Carolina A & T State University in Greensboro, North Carolina many male and female students were interested in pledging Greek organizations on campus. Many weren't accepted by certain organizations for what ever reason. I remember 2 female roommates who were interested in Delta Sigma Theta, Inc. Only one was accepted by the Deltas. The same thing happened to a friend who pleged Que, but later dropped line. Later in life in joined a Graduate Chapter in Bowie, Maryland.

    My point, the Zetas at George Washington University should have known this it person wasn't a good fit for their organization and they should have turned her down to become a member of Zeta Phi Beta, Inc. Personally, I never thought pledging a fraternity was me, because during those days back in 1974, hazing was terrible at many HBCU campuses. These organizations are very clickish and if you are not a member of a Greek organization, you are consider a nobody. I graduated from A&T in 1977 and today when I go back to Homecoming, the men and women in Greek organizations are still very clickish. Some speak to you at Homecoming, but they hang with their Frats and Sorors on the yard after the Homecoming game. To hell with black Greek uppity Negro organizations. I later went on to get a Graduate Degree at Johns Hopkins University and I am now a Senior Vice President at Verizon in Maryland making 6 figures. My point, you don't have to be a member of a black Greek organization to get a job. It's about whom you know and your qualifications and educational background. I have family members who belong to the Kappas, Deltas, Alphas, Ques, AKAs, and Prince Hall Masons and Eastern Stars. Most haven't been active in these Greek organizations since their undergrad days. Only one cousin living in Charlotte, North Carolina is an active member of Delta Sigma Theta, Inc. and she's a life member.

  281. #281

    This Alston person clearly has mental issues to take care of in the first place...if you're confused as to how people don't understand how you have a vagina, are a member of a SORORITY but want to be called "he", there is a serious mental problem and you have a crucial disconnect with reality. People should be accepting and tolerant of members of the GLBT community, but not of insanity and stupidity. This Alston person needs to get it together and get realistic with life QUICK. This conflict of wanting to be called he while being a she - I'm sure - did not START at Zeta Phi Beta, and I'm also sure it will not END at Zeta Phi Beta. If you want to be transgendered that's fine, but you must be realistic about the tribulations and criticism that will come with it, especially when you're engaging in activities that don't align with your new gender. Alston needs to face it, if you're going to try and be a man AND a woman you will be criticized, laughed at and be socially ostracised for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, that's reality and it should be faced.

  282. #282

    This may not come off right but whateva.....Greek letter organizations were meant to be "ELITE" organizations, PERIOD!!!! Zeta did a disservice to Z phi B and Phi beta Sigma, by lowering standards for this gender bender. As a 26 year active member of Omega, I would have voted against this 1000 times, as should have the Zetas .... There are churches, as well as numerous Gay and lesbian organizations for people that are "finding" themselves sexually. WE ARE THE ELITE FOLKS, be proud of that, and stop lowering the bar to every 2.5 with a checking acct. None of us were founded on that, lets get back to our roots.....peace..

  283. #283

    Nevermind Devin; NC&T Grad has some ISSUES that he needs to work out. Just because you chose not to become a member of a black greek letter organization doesn't mean you have to be so negative about them. If black greeks want to hang out with their frats and sorors at homecoming, isn't that their business. Stick to the issue. This is not the forum for you to tell your lifestory and tell us all about all the people you know in a fraternity or sorority. You have issues.

  284. #284

    I am really confused by this article. I want to offer compassion to Devin because it appears that he is torn between what his body says and what he wants to be. I can't imagine that type of dilemma.

    What is unclear to me is why he would join a sorority if he wants to be viewed as a man. That part is unclear to me. Zetas tenets are really not much different than many other service organizations. Why not choose membership in an organization that would not cause him to compromise who he thinks he is.

    I don't think that the sorority should shun him, but, I think they likely should not have offered membership at all if they were going to treat him this way. The very title of sorority sister just doesn't seem like it fits...so why try an force it.
    The world is not black and white so we need to learn how to make our organizations prepared for the way of the world and be ready to defend our positions or accommodate.

  285. #285

    this is retarded. if he wants to be a friggin' man, DON'T JOIN A SORORITY!! how stupid is this guy? i may sound insensitive but i think changing your gender and then going into the pit of femininity is really asking for the abuse.

  286. #286

    i also agree with my brother, tony smalls up there. yes, i'm a Delta...

  287. #287

    Devin,
    As a member of Z PHI B, you must understand that there is a time and place for everything. Yes, Zeta is an organization that does not discriminate, however you should not take advantage of that. I am a lesbian myself, and on my personal time I do not dress like a girl, however when I get in front of my sorors, I adjust. I put on a nice pantsuit and do my thang in Zeta land. I have been a Chapter Basileus as well as on a undergrad council on the regional level. My sexuality is always kept seperate from Zeta business. You are A FEMALE, at your rituals you should have respected the org enough to put on a dress for a little while. I own ONE white dress that I wore twice- for my Rituals ONLY!! I see no sacrifice from you, however you wanted Zeta to sacrifice. That is not fair. It was also disrespectful for you to deface our nalia like that!!! This could have been handled way better by all parties involved. Get yourself together and make a decision about what you want to be and stick with it.

    Sorors.... that is enough of putting our business out in the public... That is what state, regional, and national meetings are for!!!!!!!!!

  288. #288

    Observant One ask you mammy if she have some issues. Who in the hell are you to tell what to discuss in this forum. Yes, I saw no need to pledge one of these worthless uppity Negro organization and I am doing fine financially. How many of you idiots are making over 6 figures? We have a black President who attended an Ivy League school and he saw no need to pledge one of these Negro organizations. Since the Michelle Obama became the First Lady, AKA's are kissing her azz to make her an honorary Soror. They kissed Hillary Clinton's azz, but she turned down the AKAs.

  289. #289

    Let me read this Queen, the Observant One. The Kappas and Alphas are full of homosexual faggot men. The Omegas and Iotas too. I have never met so many men in Alpha Phi Alpha, Inc. and Kappa Alpha Psi, Inc. here in the D.C. metropolitan area who are gay. At one time, I thought all the Alpha men were gay. When I’m on Adam4Adam a gay sight for black men and in the AOL chat rooms, there are black gay Greeks up in there looking for sexually hookups. I have encountered several gay Sigmas at Howard University too. Many of the gay Kappa and Alpha men are very feminine.

  290. #290

    P.S. Many of the black Greek gay men are bottoms for the record. LOL LOL

  291. #291

    I make 97K a year. I guess that's not 6 figures though.

  292. #292

    NCA&TGrad
    Stop being a Greek hater. Are you upset that you were NOT accepted into a Greek organization? Who you calling uppity? You sound like a sellout calling my sorority (Z PHI B)and the rest of the Divine 9 family "Negro" organizations. We are Black organizations, and the word "Negro" is OUT! The AKA's and the rest are NOT kissing NOBODY'S ass. Get your s**t straight before you criticize Greek organzations. Just becuase you're not a member and making 6 figures doesn't mean that you are better than ANYBODY in this world!

  293. #293

    Correction: Typing on my lap top

    BluIceQueen1920, I can assure you, I'm not upset for not being in any of these Negro/colored/black/African American organizations. I graduated with a 3.8 GPA from NCA@T in 1977. I could have pledged Kappa Alpha Psi, Inc. back in the day along with several other buddies, but there were hazing big time on campus and the Kappas were kicked off campus. No one was going to beat my azz or possibly kill me with the crazy hazing. As I stated, I don't need any of these uppity Negro organizations to uplift me. Most undergrad's partied, smoked refer, and their grades went to hell. Today in 2009, I belong to or sit on several Boards in the District of Columbia and in Maryland. I have received numerous awards for my community service and academic achievements. I can assure you, I would have never pledged Phi Beta Sigma, Inc., because they weren't that popular with the Aggies during the 70's. Groove Phi Groove was more popular than the Sigmas. LOL

    Before coming to Verizon as a Vice President, I had worked at several prominent organizations and Universities. I am living very comfortable in my Spring Valley northwest D.C. neighborhood in Ward 3. I bet most of you Negroes don't know where Spring Valley or Ward 3 is located in Washington. LOL

  294. #294

    By the way, you fools are not Greeks and I doubt very seriously, you have visited Greece. LOL LOL

    Stop calling yourselves Greeks, because you are not. You are black, not from the country of Greece. The real Greeks are laughing at you.

  295. #295

    I actually ate at a Wendy's in Athens. I guess that's globalization for you.

    Oh for the record, I am a proud member of a Black Greek Lettered Organization. So is Tom Joyner, Tavis Smiley, Mayor Adrian Fenty, Steve Harvey, Dr. Cornell West, the late Dr. Martin Luther King, Adam Clayton Powell, the last Arthur Ashe, Michael Jordan, Hand Arron, Earl Graves, John Lewis, Emmitt Smith, Bill Cosby, Sharon Pratt Kelly - you know, the first female mayor of DC. The first black Chancellor of UMass is Iota. Congressman Bobby Rush of Illinois, (should I go on listing us fools?)

    While everyone is proud of Barack and Michelle, when you look at some of the name above, do you really feel we need them to validate our existence?

  296. #296

    What is your point by naming the people mentioned above Iota? Sharon Pratt-Kelly was a one term mayor as so will Adrian Malik Fenty. I guess Barack or Michelle saw no need to pledge any of these organizations. Vincent Gray, D.C. Council Chair belongs to a white Fraternity he pledged at GW University. You can add D.C. At-Large Councilmember Kwame Brown to the list. He's a Kappa man. My point to all you, being in a black organization doesn't make you no better than any other black, because in most whites eyes, we all are Ni$$ers.

  297. #297

    Iota 4 Life, that was a funny comment about eating at Wendy's in Athens, Greece. LOL LOL

  298. #298

    For those who stated, these black organizations are for the "ELITE". What kind of statement of signal does this send to other black professionals holding Graduate Degrees and non professional blacks who are not in these organzation? I must agree with the Aggie graduate, because he's on point with his comment. Sometimes the truth hurts.

    North Carolina Central University Alumnus

  299. #299

    My point is simple. Collectively we are not fools. At Cornell University in 1906, seven black students had to ban together for self-survival. BGLO's are one of the success stories regarding a race of people who were determined to lift themselves up. While I freely admit some of the honored traditions have evolved into caricatures and worse (hazing and such), your voice and talents would be welcomed even at this stage in your life. Aggie Pride has taken you a long way, am I am sure you have worked hard for everything you have. At the same time, for over 100 years, you cannot simply reduce the role that BGLO's have played in shaping black thought, and educational aspirations.

    I really did eat at a Wenday's in Athens Greece and I truly do not give a flying blank in how I am seen by "whites". There is a new paradigm in American society. This new generation has merged more than previous ones in musical tastes, social relations, etc. A black man becoming Presidnet, coupled with a white person can become validictorian at Morehouse, then it is time to realize, times have changed.

    Thats my 1,963 cents. Forgive me if I was long, but with all respect to Blu Phi - OUR CAUSE SPEEDS ON IT'S WAY!

  300. #300

    Sorry but one last point. There are gay brothers in my chapter, and nobody cares. It's that simple. It's about the work of the community. They are not my "gay" brothers, they are my brothers. There are too many serious issues to be addressed, and who is sleeping with who is not one of them.

    Iota Phi Theta is always in need of good men who are ready to contribute to the community. We are not elitist. Research our founding, and you will understand.

  301. #301

    You are right about that Iota, because I have dated and slept with a few Iota's.

  302. #302

    P.S. To Iota 4 Life, you are right about the Iota's not being elitist as other black organization. My blood brother pledge Iota at Morgan State University back in the day and many Iota's were on the football team at Morgan. The Iota's were founded at Morgan State University.

  303. #303

    To take this conversation back to the topic at hand, we do not care about who a brother sleeps with, but we would certainly not want our letters to be worn at a gay pride day parade, or something along those lines. If you pledge Iota, or any BGLO, you do so with the understanding of adhering to the organization's principle that are spelled out in it's motto, constitution, bylaws, etc. Devin was wrong in that sense. Zeta represents finer womanhood. Plain and simple. You can not reconcile finer womanhood with being a man. Iota is about brotherhood. If a brother wants to be called "her", how can he be a brother? It is not discrimination. Anyway, I wish everyone well, these are my last words on this affair.

    Much respect to the sisters of Zeta Phi Beta, and all members of the Divine 9.

  304. #304

    Iota 4 Life, I have seen several gay Iota's, Alphas, Kappas, and Ques walking around at D.C. and Atlanta at black pride wearing black Greek t-shirts. During gay pride, a Alpha Phi Alpha Queen was around with an Alpha shirt on. I have to admit, I have met or seen more gay men of Alpha Phi Alpha, Inc. I often asked myself, dam are all the Alpha men homosexuals? Get over it homosexuals are here and many are married and living on the down low. You never know, that masculine brother who likes sports, talk about women, and is married to a woman, don't mean sh&t. Be careful of some of those famous names you mentioned in black Greek organizations, because some play both sides of the tracks if you know what I mean.

  305. #305

    NCA&T Grad
    DO us a favor and shut your old school a** up and stick with the subject. Sorority/fraternity hater!

  306. #306

    Iam confused, not by the article however but by the comments. I must say I am not SURPRISED by these comments as the black community has never been known for its openmindedness towards issues of gender and sexuality, most likely because of its rootedness in christianity and the prominence of the black church. Though I respect the religious beliefs of individuals I am confused about the great range of speculation and assumption put forth by these comments. A few things have caught my attention after reading these.

    1. Absolutely nowhere in the article does it say that Devin is gay, lesbian, or bi or any other sexuality. In fact nowhere does it say Devin's self proclaimed sexual preference. Maybe you all have the great power to read invisible words or something but I shamefully admit I lack this amazing skill...

    2. In reference to number 1 I point this out to say that Devin is TRANSGENDER or gender queer. This does not say ANYTHING about his sexuality. It is just as likely that he dates men as that he dates women...he could even be asexual and thereby not attracted to anyone...please people step your game up

    3.I have noticed a lot of comments in reference to "finer womanhood" and asserting that Devin could not have possibly embodied that principle because of his gender presentation and refusal to dress and dance like a woman. Im sorry but as a feminist and a member of a sorority when did the notion of "finer womanhood" become degraded to being "sexy", shaking ass and rolling our bodies, and wearing high heels? Im shocked and appalled that women that are supposed to be strong community role models would even equate those two ideas. Shouldnt we be moving away from those stereotyped ideals? Thats some dumb shit..

    4. Lastly, as a bio and anthro major, as well as an GLBT community activist, I think that most of the posters thus far are operating under the presumption that gender is a binary, male or female and that we are either 100% one or other. This is simply not true. Biologically, gender or more accurately sex has many determining factors, namely hormones. Sex determining hormones are variable within each individual due to genetics and environment so it follows that know one is EVER 100% man or woman. We all have differing amounts of testosterone and estrogen (which are present in both males and females naturally) and this dictates are relative masculinity and femininity, at least physically and emotionally.

    In addition, gender is a social construct. From a young age we are all trained to be womanly or manly by the life experiences we have and please dont think that man and woman means the same thing everywhere. Remember that we live in western society. We have not heard from Devin himself what his ascribed gender is. Just because he uses male pronouns and presents himself masculinely does not necessarily mean that he thinks of himself FULLY as a man.

    In response to why he may have wanted to join a sorority his reasons may be many. First off, he was INVITED! It is hard enough being new to college let alone being gender queer, and even harder seeking to find acceptance in the black community. Clearly he is upset by the loss of his sisters, which leads me to believe that he only desired companionship and acceptance. Do not judge lest ye be judged!

  307. #307

    Just to add quickly I have talked to the Zetas at my university and they support Devin and feel that this entire incident is based on ignorance and prejudice

    In addition my own sorority is dedicated to unifying womyn of many different experiences, backgrounds, and abilities to share in sisterhood. We are welcome to all those who identify now or have ever identified as womyn, meaning that we would accept into our org both transgender women who have a nonfeminine gender presentation as well as biological males who are M to F. Needless to say we are open to all spectrums of the queer community as well.

  308. #308

    I am a ZETA and would never have let a transgender into my chapter. Call it discrimination, but that makes the organization look bad. If he has a vagina then she could join, but as long as there is still a penis, then he is a boy and should join a frat. I am sick and tired of everything joining Zeta. It is a disgrace.

  309. #309

    BluIceQueen1920 kiss my ass! You probably look like ugly ass Cheryl Underwood. The Zetas are a bunch of ugly ass losers. This he, she, it should feel right at home. I don't think 53 is old, but you should pray to live to see 53 or accomplish the things I've done in my life and professional career.

  310. #310

    The Zetas are the least interesting black Sorority made up of women that couldn't get into the Deltas and AKAs. This "FREAK" should feel right at home with the rest of the women of Zetas. So Phine has said, she welcomes transgendered "FREAKS" into her sorority, the Zetas.

  311. #311

    Realizt.. Devin does have a "vagina" he is biologically female.
    so now what?

  312. #312

    Mike I am not a zeta, although I am friends with most of the black women in black sororities on campus. I am a woman of partially black ancestry and a member of a multicultural sorority dedicated to social justice. That being said we strive to promote unification between womyn regardless of background or experience so that we can share and appreciate each others perspectives. I think that anyone that feels they are a woman, to whatever degree or extent should be allowed into our sorority if they embody our other principles (which btw have nothing to do with futher emulating our perceived notions of womanhood, which frankly are antiquated and fucking stupid). That being said I just find it interesting that a group of people that have been so historicaly marginalized and oppressed, often referred to as "FREAKS" themselves, would be so quick to judge and berate this person whose only crime was wanting to fit in. Do we not remember that black people were called apes, baboons, jiggaboos? Is that kind of namecalling really necessary? In my own research I STILL have to use the term NEGROID when examining human skeletal remains. This world is prejudice enough so please to do not continue to promote ignorance by referring to another human being as an it or a he/she/it. Youre just being a selfrighteous smartass. The article makes it clear that Devin is a he, so give him the respect of addressing him properly. I swear this is the shit that hate crimes are made of....

  313. #313

    So Phine, you proved my point. You are not black but some white homosexual freak who want to be accepted. Guess what I will never accept you, because you are a crime against nature. Go to "HELL" where you belong.

  314. #314

    i think Mike is Miss Mary.

    So Phine, don't waste your breath. Just pray that people become more accepting and not so damn ignorant..also that no hate crimes become of this.

  315. #315

    Hmm, I can assure you, I not Miss Mary. But guess what, you are RuPaul. I don't need your prayers "COW".

  316. #316

    Hmm, I can assure you, I'm not Miss Mary. But guess what, you are RuPaul. I don’t need your prayers “COW”.

    I bet Miss Mary can kick your ass thou. LOL LOL

    Get her Miss Mary!

  317. #317

    [This comment has been deleted. Admin note: Any comments that expressly condone violence---or are just too amazingly intolerant for me to stand anymore---will be deleted. - Amanda]

  318. #318

    I'm a woman.
    I don't think this about sympathy, I think it's about tolerance. That's all. I'm not here to pick any sort of fight! Sorry!

  319. #319

    What the hell is tolerance? I don't tolerate this type of behavior the same way I don't tolerate illegal immigration. If you are truly a black woman, then act like one with class. I think, you are one of these white transsexuals trying to make your personal case to a discussion for black U.S. citizens.

  320. #320

    um I dont know specifically who is being addressed but I assure you I AM black, and thats the box they would check if the police were looking for my ass so it really is irrelevant what my ethnic heritage is. Society doesnt care about what you ACTUALLY are ethnically, its what you appear to be, it is just the same for gender. Um also I am a woman biologically and for the most part socially and damn proud of it.

  321. #321

    the only reason I acknowledge that I am partially black is to give acknowledgment to my mother who raised me alone without the support of my incarcerated black father. That being said Im active in my black community to the extent that I wish to be. But "race" aside, ignorance is ignorance, no matter the color.

  322. #322

    fuckit...mike youre a dumbass

  323. #323

    Some of you idiots need to go back to school an learn grammar, spelling, and how to write a complete sentence in English. I thought, most of you are supposed to be black college graduates? Your writing skills are that of a third grader.

  324. #324

    I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta. I'm also a very open-minded person; however, Devin tried to thrust his sexuality and beliefs upon members of a female sorority. If he didn't want to be a member of a female group, he shouldn't have joined. The laws are made to protect people who are really discriminated against instead of someone who just wants to play games. Our founders did not create our organization for Devin to use to display his GLBT agenda.

    Start your own group for that!

  325. #325

    Kim G, I concur with your comment.

  326. #326

    This is so sad to see in print! I am quite sure that this situation or something like it is happening in the other historically, black greek organizations. I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. and continue to be active in the graduate chapter. I feel sympathy and empathy for both sides. Maybe Devin was looking for acceptance in a social form. Unfortunately, the way it occured reflects badly on the organization. I am accepting of the GLBT community and wish that honest conversations would have occurred, if they did not, about the consequences and repercussions that would take place if someone of Devin's status was extended the invitation or accepted it. This is a SORORITY! It was founded on premises that mean just what they say! Devin, hopefully you will be able to participate in an organization that is a right fit for you and accepts you for who you are from the very beginning. It's only a matter time before a facade has to be revealed. To my sorors of the beautiful blue and white family, I am sure you will learn from this experience and closely scrutinize all those interested in this upstanding organization. Continue to serve and represent Zeta to the best of your ability; pure Zeal!

  327. #327

    It seems that some of you don't know the first thing about Zeta women and what we are all about! I assure you Zeta was not a third choice but a first class one all the way. I love being a woman of the blue and white and i am just that; 100% woman. How dare you profess to know who joined this organization for what reason? Zeta is a beautiful organization that encourages each woman to reach her best potential with a warm and supportive network to acheive whatever her goals may be. So goes this mantra for every sorority! If you have to put down Zeta and our illustrious International Grand President Sheryl Underwood then you must have too much time on your hands to worry about us! We are on our mission! What's yours?

  328. #328

    Zetas equals "Trolls". (Sherly Underwood)

  329. #329

    I am a PROUD member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Inc. and my first coment comes to all the ignorant .and uneducated individuals on here that have negative thougths and beliefs about those things that they have no experience with. How dare you speak down on any sorority when you have no knowledge of their history. Degrading another sorority does nothing but make your own sorority look ignorant. This situation is not the first of its kind and will not be the last.

    I remember reading some where on here "why would Zeta accept a Lesbian to its organization? This is a very Stupid question! No sorority should choose its members based on their sexual orientation. Some of the greatest leaders and individuals maybe homosexual, but not publicly known. So it shouldnt matter in the selection process.

    To my sorors, I hope this is wake up call... so many times do members fail to observe prospects. This is an important phase in getting new members. If the GWU chapter would have properly observed this young lady they would have known that she identifies herself as male gendered. Not all individuals that we are friends with, nor interested in joining, and not all that we think are ready are true Zeta material! For some reason alot of chapters have started this Quality over Quantity when bringing in new members.. PLease stop this and alot of this foolishness will stop!

    To Devin, I understand that you feel at odds about this situation but all i can say Keep your head up and continue to pray about it. I have never been in your situation so i would never proclaim to know what you are feeling. As a member of Zeta Phi Beta, I am upset to hear about this being in the news. My only comment would be that like the GWU chapter members you too should have done your research about the organizations, and its memebers, you also should have sat the members down and talk with them about your beleifs, and how you identify yourself. This should have been done before you accepted the invitation for membership into the organization. So you like the chapter members you are 50% to blame for this situation. You must remember you have placed the organization in a hard situation and understand that the other young ladies are human and thier beliefs are not always that of Zeta Phi Beta as a whole,

    I truely hope that all involved parties have learned from this situation.

  330. #330

    Sorority
    so·ror·i·ty
    n. pl. so·ror·i·ties
    1. A chiefly social organization of women students at a college or university, usually designated by Greek letters.
    2. An association or a society of women.

    Why join an association or a society of women if you consider yourself to be a man?

  331. #331

    This is some very interesting reading. It contains elements of support, disagreements, and personal beliefs. We are not Greek fraternities/sororities, but known as Greek Lettered fraternities/sororities. Question,did anyone read comments #133 by CSR? This person rally made sense. Would like to read responses to those comments rather than all those who responded to Ms. Mary.

  332. #332

    Devin Alston Smith please join Delta Lambda Phi (ΔΛΦ) a national social fraternity for gay, bisexual, and progressive men. It offers a social environment and structure similar to other Greek-model college fraternities. Delta Lambda Phi was founded on October 15, 1986 by Vernon L. Strickland, III, in Washington, D.C. and incorporated in the same city on September 10, 1987. It is currently one of the fastest growing fraternities in the United States.

    I think, you would be more comfortable around people who share your sexual views and attractions.

  333. #333

    My opinion is this.. I am a Zeta.. and I am apart of the lesbian community... I remember doing my intake process.. I was questioned about my sexual orientation.. saying.. that it didn't represent Finer Womanhood... I joined however.. because.. ZETA was my passion and 1st choice.. I have no been discriminated against.. what so ever.. so I am glad I have not let that one person's personal opinion deter me..

    in this case.. I think that GWU undgergraduate chapter and Devin are at fault.. being a member of the community.. I am not judgemental of a persons beliefs.. However, the GWU chapter should have seen the indicators that this will be a potential problem and should have dismiss him from the "intake process"...there is no way.. a person who prefers to be identified as a him.. as a place.. in the sorority. i do believe this article is one sided and this matter could have been handled better.

  334. #334

    I feel really sorry for this guy. He's caught in gender battles that have nothing to do with him. It's obvious that the "sisters" didn't like him because he was transgender, and not because of anything he actually did. Whether he "should" or "should not" have been a soror is entirely beyond the point. I think the sorority was the confused party here, not Devin. He knew exactly who he was, and if the sorority didn't know who or what they were, that was their business and their job to find out. I wish this guy well, and pray that he finds a community that will love him for who he is. Maybe NYC.

  335. #335

    NCA&TGrad
    Did anybody ask you how old you were? Stop hating my sorority sister, Sheryl Underwood, my sorority, stick with the subject and GO SOMEWHERE AND SIT DOWN! This is NOT about YOU. BTW, kiss your OWN, troll a**. Ignorant moron!

  336. #336

    BulIceQueen1920 go straight to "HELL" and take ugly ass Sherly Underwood with you. Most of you Zetas look like trolls. On the Aggie campus down in Greensboro back in the day, the Zatas weren't popular at all. They were all ugly and homely looking. Have Sherly Underwood a ugly ass comedienne to be your President, I understand now why these GW women accepted this thing into their sorority. What a bunch of losers!

  337. greek organizations = paying for friends
    #337

    Zeta let "her" in b/c they wanted to cash flow from dues...you've got to have that revenue stream and larger pledge classes so that you won't become an afterthought, lose your house, charter, etc. It's a numbers game, and unfortunately, this backfired on them b/c that extra $$ from one pledge came with a whole lot of headache.

    BTW...these comments are high comedy. Everyone in the "divine" 9 should be forced to read these comments b/c they like total idiots. Oh wait...they are. Maybe they should have a step show and then everybody can hug it out.

  338. #338

    It was not the best ideal for this chapter of Zetas to accept this young woman's application on the basis of "changing her after she becomes a member".

    Btw, no one can change another person. The only way a person will change is if THEY, themselves, desire to change themselves.

    And if they desire such a change, give that person time to change. After all, they didn't become the way they are overnight, so the change won't come overnight.

    But, I'm one who REFUSES to acknowledge a woman as a "man" because SHE wants that!! She's a woman who dressed like a man and acts masculine and that's the extent of it.

    BLUF (bottom line, up front), she's a woman. Period.

  339. #339

    bluediva03:

    You stated that Chanice (who WANTS to be called "Devin"--I REFUSE) should have done HER research and that the Zeta chapter @ GWU should have observed HER and how she identifies as a male.

    In what I've read on the case, it appears that there was no ambiguity and all parties were well-aware. The downfall was accepting HER application with the hopes of changing her once she became a member (as I just stated above).

    No one should "step up to the table with an empty plate". We are all about reformation, but this is a grown (or nearly grown) woman; not a 4-year old child who could have been shaped and molded.

    Part of being humble is to realize that we cannot change everything and we cannot change anyone (see my comment above).

  340. #340

    NCA&TGrad
    You're a loser, PUNK! Before you call somebody ugly, why don't you put a picture of your immature, Shrek-looking ass on here?....That's what I thought! #2 I DID NOT accept her. The GW chapter did. #3 I'm OLD SCHOOL and been a Zeta for 10 years. Get your stuff straight ans stop blaming my sorority as a whole. We do NOT accept ANYBODY in our organization. Now, you can go rot in hell. One more thing,

  341. #341

    Don't argue with NCA&TGrad, BlueIceQueen1920. He has SERIOUS issues when it comes to sororities/fraternities. I believe that he's still pissed because he was NOT accepted in a fraternity. Which ever fraternity he had TRIED to pledge, he is holding a big grudge about it. Grow the hell up, man! NCA&TGrad, if you are 53 years old, than act like it! Another thing, before you call a person and/or my Z Phi B sorors ugly, TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR...TWICE! We are beautiful inside and out, and don't you EVER forget that. Plus, Devin a/k/a Chanise was wrong for what she (yes, I said it because you are a female) had done. If she wants to refer herself as a male, she should've join a butch/stud/dominant female fraternity. Sororities are for FEMALES ONLY! The GW chapter had made a big mistake by accepting this "whatever" in our organization, and I hope that this situation won't ever happen again.

  342. #342

    ZETA BEARS are whack and always have been!!!! I think Devin wanted a place to belong at a school that has hella white people. i'm pretty sure the zeta that recruited her was a lesbian too. In all reality ya'll should just be happy somebody decided to join your whack ass sorority. Ya'll are just a bunch of bootleg Delta's wishing you could have the class of an AKA. Plus your brothers the Kappa's rarely if ever claim ya'll mud duck behinds. Get a life and call Devin what he wants to be called.

  343. #343

    DL BLK MAN...ur Dl and attend all these gay events? and call dudes out who fuk around?? ur prolly sum fat, asz drag queen tryin to brag (but lying) about getting all these greeks in da bed..lol...sad that ugly people always lying on their diks

    you should date MISS MARY - her ugly asz husband gay too

  344. #344

    Hey,

    I just think that if she wanted to be identified as a man, she wouldn't have joined a sorority. Second, the sorority is also at fault because they offered him/her a bid to join. It was done by the older siters, who probably didn't take into consideration the future sisters-to-be, or the younger ones. But I hope everything is working out for him/her.

    Raton 31

  345. #345

    LadyCoolBreeze
    The one who is whack is YOU! I am a Zeta and WE ALL have class! Class is NOT about looks. It'a about how you carry yourself in a poostive manner. #2 You are so dumb b/c the Kappas are NOT our brothers! So, before you call somebody whack, YOU NEED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT SORORITIES/FRATERNITIES. Player-hater!

  346. #346

    BluIceQueen1920 kiss my ass you troll. Who let you and your ugly ass sister Sherly Underwood out of your cages? If you must know, I met my wife 36 years ago on the campus of A&T and she's a AKA. Face it Zetas are losers and the majority are ugly trolls that the AKA's or Delta's rejected. I saw no need to pledge a black fraternity, but I have done rather well professionally.

  347. #347

    Old Skool, are your old azz trying to hit on me? First of all, I don't do Senior Citizens nor am I looking for a Sugar Daddy. You see, there's one thing you don't know about gay men. We are very concerned about our appearance and looks. Most heterosexual men tend to get fat and look old or let their bodies go after 30 when they get married. I am 6 feet tall, 175 pounds, 32 inch waist, military haircut, moderately hairy, and muscular toned. I can assure you, I have dated and slept with men in Kappas, Alphas, and Ques. A Iota man was interested in me, but he was too girly for me. He pledged or was made at Moorehouse. A lot of the men in and not in fraternities at Moorehouse are gay for the record. I have never met so many gay Alphas in my life. Sometimes, I think most of the Alpha men are gay and many act or have Queenly ways. Try going online on AOL into the gay chatrooms or on Adam4Adam.com a black gay website. You will find or see many black men using screen names identifying them as being in a black fraternity. At present, I am in a healthy relationship with a 32 year old hot muscular in shape Italian American Attorney living in Adams Morgan. Old Skool, your life is almost over. All you have left is death, loneliness, and no one who want your old broke azz.

  348. #348

    By the way old skool, I don't do Drag Queens or Transsexuals. These freaks disgust me. I only date masculine men like myself. Masculine gay or bisexual black men are everywhere. They are in the NFL, NBA, and National Baseball league. If I knew Alex Rodriguez fu$ked around with men, I would do this fine black Dominican masculine man with hazel green eyes in a hot beat. Old skool, I can imagine your old azz as being fat, ugly, and you beat off every day. I would rather date homophobic Miss Mary or ugly Zeta Sherly Underwood, before I would go out on a date with your ugly azz. Let's face it, you are not my type and most gay men have nice gym bodies. This is something, you wish you had loser.

  349. #349

    Tha Truth, your comment was funny about Zetas being BEARS. I have seen some fat overweight black women in the Deltas and AKAs too. LOL LOL

  350. #350

    does anyone here really belive DL Black Man dates men in the NFL,NBA, etc. Then he says he discusses men for MOREHOUSE - not MOOREHOUSE (idiot) which doesnt even have iotas (no one in the AUC does).... then he drops names (which no true DL man would do) and outs groups of people (which only a misrable fag would do) because a TRUE DL dude wouldnt want anyone to out him, so he respects the code....ps if he really looked like he described and got the dudes he says - Why would he be on these gay sites looking for men??

  351. #351

    Wow! I read this story when it first came out a month ago and I didn't comment 'cause I felt like this kind of mostly anonymous forum was no good for discussing something like this and I was right. I wish people could discuss this kind of thing with more maturity and not devolving into name calling and mud slinging.

  352. #352

    Old Skool, I never said I dated men in professional sports, what I stated, there are gay or bisexual men who play these sports. You are one miserable Troll. Ok, I misspelled a word. Is this an English class you fucking homophobic fat black ass idiot? You don't start a sentence off by using by not using a capitol letter. You are wrong you fat beer belly faggot. There are Iota's at Morehouse College. Old Skool, have you ever thought about killing your old ass? If not, you should. You are probably on of these old "QUEENS" who use to party and hang at the Club House on 13th & Upshur Streets, NW from back in the late 70's.

    http://www.morehouse.edu/campus_life/greek_life/iota.html

  353. #353

    Old skool, the previous comment was mine. You are made a fine looking muscular educated black man like myself wouldn't date or give your fat, bald headed, beer belly, lonely ass the time of day.

  354. #354

    DL Black Man, you had better read that closeted Queen, Miss Old Skool. Pull up to the bumper baby!!! Slave to the Rhythm. Where are you Miss Mary? You need to come in here and read these Queens and tired fake Zetas. Hit them with your Bible girlfriend. LOL LOL

  355. #355

    dl black woman ..lol..the funny thing this 1st im homophoic then i'm a queen..which is it?? then your saying i'm old and talkin bout old clubs - im 29 years old - i PLEDGED old skool u dummy... ur calling someone late but your trying to out as many people as you can...and there ARE NOT iotas at morehouse (where did you get your ged from)?? u are the very one enforcing negative sterotypes about gays (feeing into people like miss mary) trying to make the whole world think every man (or most of them) are gay (and we wonder why blk women are parnoid now)...go kill urself

  356. #356

    DL Black Man, Miss Old Skool came for you! You had better read his ass and that's 3 snaps around the world. LOL LOL

    I am a fag hag and many of my gay male friends are in Alpha Phi Alpha and Kappa Alpha Psi right here in the Washington/Baltimore area with a large black gay population. Miss Old Skool, D.C. is the black San Francisco on the East Coast with 2 openly gay D.C. Councilmembers and possibly some DL one's too. LOL

  357. #357

    P.S. Old School refers to the 60's and 70's.

  358. #358

    Old Skool, it sounds like you are both a Homophobic and a "Queen". Girlfriend you do know, you can be both. LOL

    Pull up to the bumper baby!

  359. #359

    If you can not honor the very principles on which the sorority was founded then you should not join. It is founded on sisterhood and promoting the African-American Woman. If you choose to use the pronouns "he" and "his"; you are no longer operating within the founding principles, therefore you should not seek membership in any greek letter organization with those founding principles. It is unfair for a person to choose to be a woman to obtain membership into a sorority but when they are granted membership into it, they decide to be refered to as male. If you choose to live as a male, live it wholeheartedly. Men don't join sororities; they join fraternities.

    On the other of it, If you knew that a person live a lifestyle contrary to your founder's principles: Why accept them into your sorority? The chapter has final vote. Don't vote for them!! It is wrong to sent someone through that form of humiliation. There should have been a voice or one person who could speak out.

    Hey just my opinions.

  360. #360

    what are you talking about Grace Jones?? i'm gay and dont hide it if asked..i just dont belive u have to be flamboyant or EXPOSE others who are gay (thats their business)..its not anyones job to expose anyone.. and even by you labeling yourself a fag hag is insulting because the term FAG is equal to NIGGER... your the type of girl that expects (from your commits - MISS THIS AND MISS THAT) all gay men to be flaming.. most of us dont like that sterotype and work hard to rid society... im not homophic at all - i work with gay teens and help them realize to accept your sexuality doesnt mean falling into the negative sterotypes that people like you and miss mary expect or OUT people like DL BLK MEN.. ps - old skool is HOW YOU WERE MADE not when (are you even greek?)

  361. #361

    Olk Skool, girlfriend please give it a rest Miss Thang, because I know your old fat ass isn't trying to read me. On this issue of Miss Mary, why are some of you riding her pussy?

  362. #362

    LOL@Grace Jones

  363. #363

    Old Skool, I truly hope, you are not messing with these kids sexually, because it's happening everyday in society with Coaches, mentors, etc. having sex with boys and girls. Do I need to call the Metropolitan Police Department, because you might be a pedophile? Betty yet, I should get Miss Mary to beat you down with her Bible for disrespecting her and for using the N word. The word faggot can be referred to anyone regardless of race and color, but the N word is referred only to blacks. You do sound like a horrible fat piece of shit.

  364. #364

    Black and Gay on Fraternity Row by Keith Boykin. Miss Old Skool and others make sure you read the comments and one particular comment from an Alpha named Omar.

    http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/2005/08/11/black_and_gay_o

  365. #365

    Devin is not confused, if anything the sisters were. i believed they felt they could change devin into what they thought would be the perfect woman. when they found out that he would not change they wanted to force a life upon him which one that he felt uncomfortable with. sororities already think they own you and feel they can change you forever. i for one do not like greek life because the people that are involved are no longer upholding their standards im tired of turnign on the tv and seeing someones child dead and gone because of cruel acts they thought were funny. devin wanted to be apart of somethign he felt would be a good thing. the sisters knew that he identified as male and it is their fault that they made him feel as though he could join with no problem. this is for all the sorors out there who do not know anythign about a trans males. they are not lesbians and they do not see themselves as such, they are straight or homosexual men. so please educate yourselves and your president on these things because they are more delicate than the colors you wear on your back.

  366. #366

    Old Skool sounds very bitter, unattractive, and lonely. Maybe he was rejected by some hot young muscular masculine DL black man who wasn't interested in his old ass. As I stated, there is a lot of gay men living in the D.C. area that are members of Alpha Phi Alpha, Kappa Alpha Psi, Omega Psi Phi, Phi Beta Sigma, and Iota Phi Theta. Many are out of the closet and some are on the DL and married. I am not trying to out anyone. Gay people are everywhere and you are right, the majority of gay men are masculine. Howard University is known for it's gay and DL brothers. Down Low to many men mean being discreet and not publicizing their sexuality or sexual preference for another man.

    Sororities are for women regardless of sexual preference and the same thing applies to Fraternities. I agree with Enrique 100%. Grace Jones, you are a funny character. Are you the Grace Jones who is the singer/Actress from Jamaica?

  367. #367

    If she wants to be a man so bad she needs to stop all the crying. Men don't do that & SHE needs to be told that. Men don't cry because you forgot to call me a he & not a she or whatever her problem is.

  368. #368

    Hi,

    My name is Jim, and I self-identify as a Pterodactyl. I demand to be referred to as Pterodactyl Jim. I demand to be greeted with a hearty "SQUAWK!"

    If you do not respect my self-identification, I will sue you for discrimination. If you insist on referring to me as a human, I will sue you for harassment. I demand my rights as a Pterodactyl, and I will not be denied by small-minded bigots bent on undermining my self-worth and self-respect as a member of the Pterodactyl community!

    I am not crazy; I was betrayed by my body. I am a Pterodactyl trapped in a man's body, and it's not my fault. If only people could see how much it hurts me inside when they ignore my wishes and feelings and refer to me as "Dave."

    When will society grow up and start respecting the individual right to live free as a Pterodactyl? It's 2009, you hateful people!

    A truly saddened Pterodactyl,

    Pterodactyl Jim

  369. #369

    NCA&TGrad
    I don't know what you problem is, but you need to get your eyes away from the back of your head! I am a Zeta, and WE ARE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN. You think that AKA's and Deltas are the only sororities that have very attractive women? Let me tell YOU something, BLIND BAT! They are some AKA's AND Deltas who are unattractive, also. BEAUTY IS SKIN DEEP! And who in the hell do you think you are to call MY sorority losers? Stop smoking that s*** and go somewhere and sit down. LOSER!

  370. #370

    Blu-tifulDove, who in the hell told you, you are beautiful? I am sure, you are a troll like the rest of your Sorors. Sherly Underwood your President, is very ugly. What's wrong with your gums and teeth? This woman is a troll and Zetas are losers for selecting an ugly Comic as their President. I guess, this was suppose to be a joke. Guess what, the joke is on the Zetas. Now I will go sit in the corner as instructed. LOL

  371. #371

    Alston-Smith cleary has mental health issues that need to be worked out in therapy, preferably with someone who has skills in dealing with gay/lesbian or transgender issues. I am not saying that to be insuling, but as a serious comment to an already confusing and unfortunate situation.

    This reminds me of that group of young men who were blasted all over the internet for pledging AKA, does anyone else remember that?

    The part that bothered me the most was how Alston-Smith gave back all of his Zeta belongings in his effort to give up and left that letter for his sorority sisters about how he felt rejected by them and how they had ruined everything. A lot of times people with suicide ideation will do things like this, give things away, leave "I give up" letters for others to find etc. His loved ones need to check on him.

    However it seems that he wants it both ways. He wants to identify with women or men when its convienient for him. He probably thought it would be easier to get into a sorority instead of a fraternity. No way would the ques or kappas let someone born as a woman into their ranks. But he is entitled to seek membership into a sorortiy because he is biologically a woman.

    Just because you dress like a man and have the mannerism of a man, that does not make you a man. Part of me feels it was unfair for Alston to require the Zetas to act this way, Alstons feelings are not the only ones to consider. As a Delta, I can see the position he put them in.

  372. #372

    I don't care about any of the comments on this thread, I think that everyone has a right to their opinions, but I am quite infuriated that some of the very people speaking on behalf of Devin will dare say "Fuck Jesus and the bible." Why did the discussion even have to come to that? Why would anyone who speaks up on respect on behalf of someone else, be so disrespectful? I think that your comment was completely out of line mdesus and I can no longer appreciate any of your comments.

  373. #373

    NCA&TGrad
    I'm pretty sure that you are an ugly, ignorant moron. Why don't you act like you got some good sense? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids. Calling somebody a troll? Why don't you grow the hell up and act like a 53 year old grown man than a 5-year-old kindergardener, little boy!

  374. #374

    Ble-tifulDove, bite me Troll! This ignorant moran holds a Graduate Degree from Johns Hopkins University. My beautiful wife (AKA) who I met 35 years ago still find me attractive. You are probably some ugly ass troll who was rejected by both the AKAs and Deltas. I bet you are ugly ass Sherly Underwood sending me these messages on the downlow. LOL LOL

    She’s one ugly “COW”. Don’t make me get Miss Mary or Grace Jones on your case.

  375. #375

    NCA&TGrad
    If you are a college grad, LEARN HOW TO SPELL! What the hell is a "moran", stupid? You go and get your Cousin Itt and Gorilla in the Mist. I will tell both of your dogs out!

  376. #376

    Hey, my Z Phi B sorors
    To hell with NCA&TGrad. He's a retarded, stupid, egotistical punk. He needs to grow up and be a man. He needs to crawl back under his rock where he and the rest of the ugly, player-hating Rugrats are at. Before you call somebody ugly, moron, WHY DON'T YOU PUT A PICTURE ON HERE TO SEE WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE? But, you are scared. #2 You are NOT Mr. Universe, thinking that you are better than anybody in this world. Go bite yourself, a**hole!

  377. #377

    NCA&TGrad
    Go and bite yourself, Shrek! That's why ALL FRATERNITIES rejected your self-centered a**. All fo them had dodged a bullet for not accepting you, even Lambda Lambda Lambda (LOL). Take that to the bank, PUNK!

  378. #378

    dl blk man/grace jones: well grace - all gay men dont sleep with young kids and since you only hang out with gays - we all know your FAT and UGLY - thats the only kind of girls that hang with 'fags' as you put it, because the hetro world doesnt accept you (that just hit home didnt it)..dl blk man - i will be in dc for konclave this year and i would love to meet you..its always a pleasure to beat down sissys like you - the ones who give other blk gay men a bad name by being flamboyant and outing others

  379. #379

    Blu-tifulDove and LadyCoolBreeze you "COWS" couldn't suck on my pole, because you both are ugly ass "TROLLS" like your Soror Sherly Underwood. FUCK YOU BOTH!

  380. #380

    Neither of you Zeta cows are beautiful. You are a fat bunch of ugly ass black women who belong to this tired fading Sorority no body gives a shit about. This is why the GW Chapter let this creature join, because they were desperate for membership. You are a pathetic bunch of losers. Go sit you ugly asses in a corner and find you a man or woman like Devin Alston-Smith and get your freak on. This Sorority have been the laughing joke of the black community here in D.C. area and around the country.

  381. #381

    NCA&TGrad
    Why don't you shut the f**k up? You go and FUCK YOUR UGLY, CRACKHEAD MAMA, punk-ass!

  382. #382

    NCA&TGrad
    First of all, you don't know a goddamn thing about my sorority, BITCH! Who do think you are? We are ALWAYS in the community and serve in it well! What the f**k do you do in your community, dumb-ass? NOT A DAMN THING. YOU are the prime example of a joke, you buffoon. You the type of little boy who sits on his a** talking about shit that you don't even know. Say that s**t to one of my soror's face in DC, and they will kick your sorry, ignorant a**! Now, got drive off of a cliff.

  383. #383

    NCA&TGrad
    You one pathetic, tired M.F.! Go and sit you wanna-be, playboy a** down somewhere and grow the f**k up, old bastard! You AND mama are fat, ugly cows. You so ugly, your next-door broke in your house and pull down your shade.

  384. #384

    All you low life Zeta bitches can kiss my ass! Now, take that to the bank. Your Sorority is an embarrassment period. You can learn how to be true ladies from the women in Deltas and AKAs. You use of foul language towards me shows, you are not ladies, but ghetto trash talking hoes.

  385. #385

    BluICEQueen1920, you are a lot of fun! LOL LOL LOL LOL

    I am going back to sit back in my corner as you instructed.

  386. #386

    400 posts confirming every negative stereotype about Greek Life.

  387. #387

    NCA&TGrad
    Exuse me? WE ARE TRUE LADIES, punk! Being a TRUE lady is how you carry yourself in a positive manner. And what make you think that ALL AKAs and Deltas are true ladies? I got news for you, BLIND BAT! You are going to find attractive, unattractive, smart, not-so-smart, geniuine, whorish, ghetto, etc. women in ALL sororities. AND you going find women dress EITHER feminine or butch/stud in ALL sororities. I know an AKA & Delta who dress like a butch/studs. They do NOT wear ladies' clothing, but they identifies THEMSELVES as FEMALES. Yes, I'm using foul language, meaning that I'm straighten your blind-a** out! I am a classy, sexy, Zeta who carries herself LIKE A LADY. If you don't have NOTHING nice to say about people, THEN SHUT THE F**K UP!

  388. #388

    BluIceQueen1920, are you sure, you weren't raised in a Saloon or by Marines? You have a ghetto mentality like a Shanana or Shequwita. I bet my six figure salary, you look like your ugly ass comedian Soror, Sherly Underwood. The woman is a beast and she's down right ghetto, lacking class. This is what you Zetas voted for as your President and to allow a confused woman who thinks she's a man into your tired ass Sorority. Where is Miss Mary when you need her? Miss Mary need to beat you down with her Bible. LOL

    I bet you look like Big Shirley from "What's Happening". LOL

  389. #389

    BluIceQueen1920 and NCA&T, you guys are funny! I think, you both have a secret crush on each other.

  390. #390

    For the record, I am married to a Delta and all 3 of my sons are Kappa men.

  391. #391

    BluIceQueen1920, I think NCA&T Grad have a crush on you and he's just messing around with you. He might be too old for you and old enough to be your father. LOL Maybe you two guys should go on a blind date, but his AKA wife might not like it. LOL

    On a serious note, Sororities are for women and Fraternities are for men. The GW Chapter of Zetas should have never let this woman into their Sorority. Her character didn't seem or appeared to fit in with the women of Zeta Phi Beta, Inc.

  392. #392

    KappaNupe and QuePuppy, NCA&TGrad is a punk! He'll NEVER get a piece of this sexy Zeta. I'm NOT the type of female to be messing around with married men Saying that I have a ghetto mentality? He don't know a damn thing about me. That punk needs to respect women like he does with his wife. He a know-nothing loser and too blind to see. By the way, he's (NCA&TGrad) too scared to show his full-blown ugliness on here. As far as Sheryl Underwood, I DID NOT VOTE FOR HER, NCA&TGrad!!! But I love her REGARDLESS. She's a BEATIFUL, PHENOMENAL Zeta. You can say that she is ugly all you M.Fing want, but you need to keep your nasty comments to yourself, NCA&TGrad!

  393. #393

    QuePuppy and KappaNupe, I can assure you two frat guys, I don't have a crush on BluIceQueen1920 aka Sherly Underwood. Sherly the Beast Underwood is in her forties and that's not far behind me. LOL

  394. #394

    NCA&TGrad
    Let me straighten you out once again. I am NOT Sheryl Underwood, YOU BIG DUMMY-LUMMY!

  395. #395

    BlueIceQueen1920 aka Sheryl Underwood the "BEAST", please shut up and go sit in a corner dressed in a pair of blue jeans. LOL By the way Sheryl, why are your gums so dark and your teeth look like beavers? LOL
    Are you still selling monkey bread as you did in the movie "Beauty Shop"?

  396. #396

    DaSatinDoll, I think you are a Drag Queen who looks horrible in drag dress in blue. You want to fight me. What kind of lady are you? Is this how Zeta women act? If the all look like Miss Underwood and Alston-Smith, they don't look like ladies, but ugly ass women and he, she, it's. LOL

  397. #397

    LOL@NCA&T

    You are a funny guy. Leave Sheryl Underwood alone. She can't help for being ugly.

  398. #398

    All of you seem to be ignoring a few key points here 1) Devin COULDNT join a fraternity for legal reasons, even if he wanted to. 2) some people dont join greek organizations for a name, they join it for the people. and in devins case, he liked the PEOPLE! why would he go looking for a fraternity when he LIKED the people in this particular sorority! 3) Regardless of the fact that this article has an obvious opinion, it doesnt take a genious to look at the quotes that they did ascertain from the soror sisters, they STILL dont refer to him as a he! They even still use the name that he doesnt identify with! Its not hard at all to believe that they did not respect his wishes then or now. 4) Devin gave them another option! he said: just dont call me by any pronoun. they wouldnt do that either. 5) its not devins fault for accepting, its the sorority/universitys fault for not knowing how to deal with this. This is not the first trans person, nor will it be the last who wishes to join a greek organization.

    honestly, these comments on here have sickened me. devin never told these girls that he was anything but a boy, so this transitioning confusion is coming out of left field. and even if he had been in transition, that doesnt change the fact that they accepted him into their sisterhood. he was initiated, sisterhood is forever and they are disrespecting their own by-laws by denying him that for being who he was.

    Devin is trying to fit into a world in transition. Some laws/rules recognize him while others dont. He cant be in a frat and he feels misplaced in a sorority. I feel sorry for him, he joined for the people, and when the people left, there was nothing left for him. i think he has a solid case.

  399. #399

    I feel that she/he had no business joining the organization because she/he was well aware of the fact that she/he would be responible for being an example of a ZPhiB WOMAN on campus. If she/he is a lesbian that's fine but, to expect to be somewhat of the first man of the organization is crazy. As sororities we embrace WOMANHOOD and promote SISTERHOOD.

  400. #400

    First of all, it's a shame to see how some of you are commenting on here.

    1) She is a SHE no matter what she wears or has on, or who she is dating or whatever. This had to be obvious when you were "watching" her before intake and afterwards.

    2) I pray that the last part about Zeta filing a complaint about this is a joke. I'm for sure she can say a three letter sentence that will end that foolishness: I WAS HAZED.

    3) The last time i checked most constitutions (which are by public viewing) have a line that creates "SERVICE TO ALL MANKIND" which would also implement her who is a female who chooses to live her life as a man...and now all of a sudden because she dresses differently and acts a certain type of way she is not good enough for Zeta? I'm not even going to start with the option to talk about the Zeta stereotype that is well worse than a female dressed as a boy. From your president spending up 400K of your money to having to vote her back into position, when she was able to be picked up again from those she took an oath to call her SORORS, you couldn't do the same for this SOROR of yours?

    This is why Greek life will NEVER be the same as it was back in the days when it was meaningful. These days, Greek life is in shambles.

    I wish Alston-Smith the best in life and comfort over this entire situation.

  401. #401

    I totally blame the chapter for this nonsense!!!! Have we not been through enough as an organization???!! This is beyond disgraceful...As an organization of WOMEN, we need to get back to the pricipals that our BLUETIFUL pearls were founded on. And when I say "we", I mean all of us from the grand president on down to the undergrads!

    Were you scraping the bottom of the bucket sorors?! Are you competing with another sorority for the numbers?! This organization does not focus on quantity, but QUALITY! What part of, "I want to be a man" says FINERWOMANHOOD??!! If you dont vote, no to an interest like this, who would you vote no to?! We need to go back to the basics and reclaim the integrity that we established in 1920. Absolute disgrace...

  402. #402

    I tried not to leave a comment on this but I could not help myself...

    The transgender/sexual identity issue is not new, can we please stop acting (some of us) like this is just now coming to the light? These issues are and can appear in ANY organization

    Both sides are to blame for this whole thing becoming the fiasco it is (as has been said in numerous posts)...

    I believe Devin initially presented herself as a woman, and wished to be identified as a man on down the line. Yes there should have been some further observation of this young lady before having her join...this chapter at the university is no different from other chapters who have observed potential members and interest, sometimes for a long time before letting them join.

    Its not just the chapter to blame but the leadership is to blame as well. This was an issue that was not dealt with previously, I assume, and there was no real guidance. This could have been a positive possiblity to deal with the transgender issue, but this was buried beneath all the hurt feelings and the negative press.

    Zetas, the organization has been through enough negativity. Not to say it doesnt happen, we dont need any more. Keep in house issues within the family(dont most families do this to begin with? You would almost NEVER know their real issues from the outside looking in).

    To my sorors, let this be a learning experience to all involved. Let this be an opportunity to educate yourselves more on the transgender issue and how to deal with it w/o letting everyone into the org that may not be a good fit at the present or in the end.

    Devin, please soul search and I hope you recover and learn from this as well. It is to my understanding from the article that no matter what, you are still a soror. Im just gonna leave it at that.

  403. #403

    If Devon Alston-Smith identifies as male, why isn't he in a FRATERNITY?

    Sororities are intended for women who identify as women - no wonder he had problems there!

    Oh, and newsflash, not everybody is all hip to this trans stuff - to most folks, if you have breasts, a vulva and pee sitting down, you're FEMALE and if you have facial hair, a penis and pee standing up, you're MALE.

    MOST OF THE WORLD views sex and gender like that - so cut us some slack please!

    Political Correctness run amok!

  404. #404

    In this marvelous world we live in we are born we are born with intellect and should know that we should not be limited to our reproductive organs nor methods of excretion. Sororities and fraternities are bonded by oath not by gender. Mr. Butler, I must inform you. There are female members of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Incorporated. In fact there are two female brothers. Nonetheless, when we limit our membership to biological makeup and constraints we are just as wrong as the white sororities and fraternities that told blacks that we weren't good enough for membership of brotherhood and sisterhood with them.

  405. #405

    I think many of us are forgetting, that Devin is essentially a Female. As a She, she has a right to join a sorority. She has no place in a fraternity no matter how she dresses or how she wants to be referred to. I agree that sororities and frats are bonded by oath and not by gender, but men and women dont belong in each others orgs. Those female members of Omega Psi Phi should not be there! How the hell did that happen?

  406. #406

    NCA&TGrad
    YOUR MOTHER!

  407. #407

    The Omega Psi Phi story. Membership has it's privileges. It is not my place to post that information for EVERYONE to see. However, males and females share brotherhood in many business frats internationally. I do think that it is inhumane and insensitive for the womyn of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated in that particular chapter to show self - oppression towards a member when blacks are oppressed on a daily basis.

  408. #408

    DaSatinDoll, no you are wrong. Your mammy! Now I guess you are going to come beat me up. You don't come across as a lady with class. You come across as some hood ghetto Shanana Jenkins type character. LOL

  409. #409

    I am a supporter of the LGBT community and am a firm believer in being yourself but I don't understand why a transgender who identifies themself as male would join a female sorority. Sorirites are about being graceful, smart, beautiful, educated WOMEN. If you don't see yourself as a woman then why join one?

  410. #410

    Wow... this is amazing. First lets clarify, there was only ONE member that invited her/him to the sorority. As a member of one myself, I'm amazed that the one member was able to convince the other members to allow her/him in the chapter. Would have loved to be a fly on the wall to hear how that went down.

    Now... here's the real deal: If they would allow people to go back to pledging people the way it was done in the 70s and early 80s, this type of shit wouldn't happen! Through proper pledging (and no, I don't mean beating someone's azz), all this mess would have come out BEFORE Zeta was given to him/her/it. She/he would have had ample time to DROP LINE before this permanent fiasco would have happened.

    I feel for all the Zetas out there who DO employ and respect the ideals of finer womanhood with all that entails, and hope this never happens to any of the four of our organizations again.

  411. #411

    NCA&TGrad
    Go jump in Lake Tahoe!

  412. #412

    To: DaSatinDoll

    I will jump after you "COW"!

  413. #413

    NCA&TGrad
    You can jump on you mama's cow, AND TAKE MS MARY AND GRACE JONES WITH YOU!

  414. #414

    LadyCoolBreeze, who in the hell do you think you are dyke? You and your mammy both can jump off a cliff and take ugly ass Sheryl Underwood along with you. I see a few of you Zetas have some rough edges like men. Maybe this is why this he/she/it joined your non popular Sorority. The Zetas have never been popular at most black Universities. Most of you trolls were probably Delta and AKA rejects. LOL LOL LOL

  415. #415

    This article is unbelievable! How can you read a one sided story and reply, with such conviction? According to the response from Zeta Phi Beta, When Devin applied for membership, he/she did so as a female, using the name given at birth, by his/her parents. If he/she intended on revealing the trans gender issue then why lie, and present yourself one way, and once you're accepted into membership, force your preference on other? I think Devin had a plan to do this all alone, and it's such a terrible thing!

  416. #416

    NCA&T Grad, how classy of you. I'm sure you make your fellow alumni, friends and parents very proud.

  417. #417

    As a former member of a fraternity, Phi Beta Sigma, Inc., I can identify with Devin because when I came out as gay, the brothers of my fraternity all-but bashed me physically.
    Their homophobia created a hostile environment, which occurred long before any laws barring this sort of behavior.

    Many of the respondents here are just as homophobic as my frat-bruhs were, and it is embarrassing and shameful to think this is how our intelligentsia think and behave in the 21st century.

    Now, i wish not to blame the victim, but as a man in transition, he had to know that there would be some problems with his pronoun choice and ultimate sexual identity decision considering ZPhiB is for women. I understand the sorors who left were accepting. Unfortunately, the sorors with which he pledged were not.

    Most of this could have been squashed if there had been some lines of communication, some form of dialogue were engaged before this mess was made public. Now that it is here for us all to read, perhaps we can heed its lesson and search deep within ourselves to appreciate difference and if there are issues upon which we cannot agree, let's agree to disagree and seek those places that are affirming and positive for ourselves.

    I did just that by leaving Phi Beta Sigma, inc. There are days when I miss the bruhs....but then I always remember the treatment when the "true" me entered the room, and like an abuse victim and let those scars keep me away from those who caused them.

  418. #418

    NCA&T Grad,

    Reading most of your comments really show the type of egostical and obnoxious person that you are. For you to be a VP of Verizon, plus all the other accolades you mention and considering your age, you are not the best role model considering the ignorant comments that you have posted. You are very well entitled to your opinion and if you don't like Zeta's than back off and keep your comments to yourself. I am proud to be a BEAUTIFUL Finerwoman of Zeta and not only are your comments offensive to our sorority, but to women in general. There is no need for you to rant and rave about what you don't like about our sorority; people that want to join make that decision themselves and don't need people like you Zeta-bashing for no good reason at all. Considering you are probably old enough to be my parent, you really represent the intelligence of your generation to no avail.

  419. #419

    God's Child who gave you this name? Was it your Soror Sheryl "The Beast" Underwood. The last time I notice, we lived in a democracy with freedom of speech. Your Sorors were losers for letting this thing join your Sorority. Yes, I just finished my morning workout before I leave for the office. I thought I would check this site to see if any of you Zeta "COWS" left me a message. Electing ugly ass Sheryl Underwood as your President shows that your Sorority is lacking in interpersonal skills or you are blind bats. LOL LOL

  420. #420

    P.S. LadyCoolBreeze, please keep Miss Mary and Grace Jones out of the conversation, before they beat you down. LOL LOL

    If Grace Jones looks like the real Grace Jones, she might give you a good ass whipping. Grace Jones is one ugly woman. LOL I don't know about Miss Mary. Miss Mary might give you a beat down with her bible along with the rest of the black D.C. ministers against gay marriage. LOL

  421. #421

    Just pathetic. As a member of a non-NPHC org, this is just sad. That is all I want to say because you all just don't know how upset I am at some of these comments. We have to do better!

  422. who cares what you think?
    #422

    what ever mr. Kappa Nupe I know a lot of your brothers that toss salad...so think b4 you speak.. boo

  423. #423

    This article was posted 2/18, some 5 months and 441 msgs later, this is still being debated on. Honestly, give it a rest. Otherwise, you will continue to draw negative attention to ALL BLACK Greek organizations. What will a perspective/interested member think after reading just a sampling of the comments. Apparently a vast majority of the posters don't want new members into their brotherhood/sisterhood. This is the problem with some of the organizations, Your good is overshadowed by your penchant to jump down people's throat who don't subscribe to the same beliefs, colors, call-signs, etc. as you. Nowhere in the African-American college experience does it say that you MUST join a Greek Organization. Many of you have proven, moreso than hazing that joining may not be in their best interests.

  424. #424

    Who Cares What You Think, I would tell you to bite me, but you might be a fucking "DRAG Queen" I am strictly pussy and I don't do dicks. For the record, I only date white women, because too many black women are angry as hell. Why are most black women angry? Is this why so many of them are Dykes?

  425. #425

    Sheryl Underwood is one ugly female. I wouldn't fuck her with Devin Alston-Smith dildo. LOL LOL

  426. #426

    This is a touchy issue that, like others have stated, will rear its head more and more as issues of sexuality become less taboo. The bottom line is that the ladies of that chapter and their graduate chapter should have discussed the prospects of initiating someone who identified herself as a man, and they all should have discussed the probable conflicts that would have arisen.

    I suspect that in years to come, duly initiated members of NPHC fraternities and sororities will begin to splinter off into organizations where they can find more acceptance. I would encourage all individuals with non-traditional gender/sexuality views to really think their decision to join an NPHC organization through and realize that, by joining, you are saying you agree with the culture that predominates whatever organization you choose; in most cases, your views will conflict with those of the majority of your brothers/sisters.

  427. #427

    I know this is sooo old but the case is still pending so I will comment. As a fellow greek, I must say I blame the Zetas for this one as they should of had the discussion during the interest get to know you phase. While I understand undergrad is quick process, as oppose to grad which can take a year -if done right - before even getting to express good intentions, they should have seen the BLUE flags here. I do not have a problem with her/him being a lebsian as to each its own, although there are lebsian sororities, my issue is clearly this person wanted to be referred to as he which is no longer a lebsian but transgender. Since her/him was very open about this in the beginning, the Zetas are at fault for not clarifying this prior to allowing her/him to sign official paperwork for membership.

    I think what's important to remember folks is it QUALITY over QUANITY.

  428. #428

    If Devin considers himself a man, he shoulda just joined sigma!!!!! They are a brother and sister organization and uphold a lot of the same ideals!

  429. #429

    I am truly dissappointed today. I an am interested in Zeta and last time I checked this sorority wasn't founded on what you look like. Cause Zetas aren't known for there beauty, if you know what I mean. Not only that but how can you tell someone else what you will call them? That is not, has never, or will ever be your decision. If he is happy what was the problem. I don't think that some of these people who wrote their comments are "small minded" I think they are ignorant. And because of this ignorance they don't understand how to just accept people. Whatever he chose to do represented who he was, and last time I checked he must have been a pretty decent person to even get in the sorortiy. I think that he did represent what a Zeta was, a leader who does what they feel is right reguaredless of the consequences. In this aspect I respect him and he will forever be the realist Zeta I have ever known and have the greatest respect for.

  430. #430

    As a memeber of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority for over 20yrs. This isn't complicated. The Sorors should not have accepted someone who clearly identifies with being male. And Devin should have researched and joined http://www.sigmaphibeta.org (Gay and Transgender Frat) There's a group that represents everyone. If it doesn't exist. Then you are called by GOD to create it.

  431. #431

    And another thing, Devin could have passed on his paraphenelia on to me instead of ruing it! Such a waste.

  432. #432

    After all these months, you guys are still talking about this freak? Please let it go!

  433. SuperSororityGirl
    #433

    I just wanted to interject here and say that Greek life is a lot more expansive than most of you give it credit for. No, Zeta Phi Beta was not a good fit for Devin. But, there ARE co-ed fraternities and sororities in existence. Perhaps membership in one of those would have been more helpful. Why not join Alpha Phi Omega Service Fraternity, or Gamma Sigma Sigma Service Sorority? Both organizations have chapters in DC and both let both women and men join. While I will say that the ladies of ZPB were rather crude in their reaction (if this account is accurate) they DO have a right to not let men in their organization, and to dispel members who do things that go against their general policies. Being male goes against their International requirements for membership. Period. Not tuning in paperwork is against the rules. Period. I think it was petty for Devin to break all of his stuff up and return it to the chapter. Simply renounce your membership and move on if that's what you need to do. I am quite sure that the chapter was feminine and girly before he pursued memebership, if it didn't go along with his social identity, why join? And let's just be real, "rush" for a black organization isn't the same as it is for other organizations. There isn't a cute table set up and invites for initiation night handed out. He HAD to have had a pledge period where he had to learn the ways of the Sorority and chapter. At any point he could have just dropped and not joined.

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