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	<title>City Desk &#187; copy-editing corner</title>
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	<description>68.3 Square Miles of D.C. News and Opinion</description>
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		<title>Stylebook Change: No More &#8220;Listserv&#8221;!</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/10/01/stylebook-change-no-more-listserv/</link>
		<comments>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/10/01/stylebook-change-no-more-listserv/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Beaujon</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[copy-editing corner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[international trademark association]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[listserv]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[outi tuomaala]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=33799</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Outi Tuomaala got in touch. Tuomaala works for L-Soft, which she says is the company that developed Listserv software. L-Soft is a little concerned.

You see, we use the word Listserv all the time. We even capitalize it, in accordance with the International Trademark Association's Trademark Checklist. (L-Soft capitalizes all the letters, e.g., LISTSERV. That is [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/files/2009/10/newcopycorner.jpg"><img src="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/files/2009/10/newcopycorner.jpg" alt="newcopycorner" title="newcopycorner" width="278" height="100" class="alignleft size-full wp-image-33809" /></a><strong>Outi Tuomaala</strong> got in touch. Tuomaala works for <a href="http://www.lsoft.com/">L-Soft</a>, which she says is the company that developed Listserv software. L-Soft is a little concerned.<br />
<span id="more-33799"></span><br />
You see, we <a href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?s=listserv">use the word <em>Listserv</em> all the time</a>. We even capitalize it, in accordance with the International Trademark Association's <a href="http://www.inta.org/index.php?option=com_trademarkchecklist&amp;func=display&amp;catid=123&amp;getcontent=1&amp;Itemid=133">Trademark Checklist</a>. (L-Soft capitalizes all the letters, e.g., LISTSERV. That is not gonna happen here.)</p>
<p>But! As Tuomaala pointed out in an e-mail, "There are email lists operating on other software.  Only lists that run on L-Soft's software<a href="http://www.lsoft.com/download/listserv.asp" ></a> are <span>LISTSERV</span> lists."</p>
<p>I wrote back for clarification, asking Tuomaala if she wanted us to find out what software each mailing list we report on is using. If I was the first person ever to reply to such an e-mail, Tuomaala masked her enthusiasm very well. "One way is to find out what is the solution is," she wrote. "For example, if it is visible in the email list address or web site. Another way, especially when the product itself is not interesting, is to use a generic term instead."</p>
<p>Some of the generic terms Tuomaala suggests: </p>
<blockquote><p>email list<br />
mailing list<br />
email group<br />
email discussion list<br />
email community<br />
announcement list<br />
email forum
</p></blockquote>
<p>I think this is a perfectly reasonable request, and it points us toward greater accuracy, journalism-wise. From now on, <em>CP</em> writers, please do not use the word <em>Listserv</em>. "E-mail discussion list" may not have zing, but it is the correct term. </p>
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		<slash:comments>10</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Copy-Editing Corner: When England Isn&#8217;t England</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/07/copy-editing-corner-when-england-isnt-england/</link>
		<comments>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/07/copy-editing-corner-when-england-isnt-england/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Beaujon</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[copy-editing corner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[england]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[great britain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[northern ireland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[scotland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[united kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wales]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=29158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
According to my American friend Elizabeth who now lives in the U.K....a noticeable difference between the level of care in the U.S. and British systems is the hospital ward. Here in the U.S. we're used to having "semi-private" rooms wherein two strangers are housed in adjacent beds in the same hospital room with curtains for [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/files/2009/08/englandsdreaming.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-29166" title="englandsdreaming" src="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/files/2009/08/englandsdreaming.jpg" alt="englandsdreaming" width="125" height="190" /></a></p>
<blockquote><p>According to my American friend Elizabeth who now lives in the U.K....a noticeable difference between the level of care in the U.S. and British systems is the hospital ward. Here in the U.S. we're used to having "semi-private" rooms wherein two strangers are housed in adjacent beds in the same hospital room with curtains for privacy. In England, multiple patients are housed in an open ward with curtains for privacy. <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kimberly-krautter/part-3-un-spinning-health_b_249065.html"><em>&#8212;<strong>Kimberly Krautter</strong>, Huffington Post</em></a></p>
<p>And we have a system where the government basically creates such a top-down bureaucracy so that you end up rationing or have significant delays in health care, such as what happens in Canada or England. <a href="http://gregg.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.FloorStatements&amp;ContentRecord_id=abc9975b-802a-23ad-4275-2cb331613df2&amp;Region_id=&amp;Issue_id"><em>&#8212;Sen. <strong>Judd Gregg</strong></em></a></p></blockquote>
<p>England! That other Eden, that precious stone set in a silver sea. Home to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_%28confectionery%29">Brighton rock</a>, two of my favorite music blogs (<a href="http://www.popjustice.com/">1</a>) (<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog">2</a>), and many famous men named <strong>Ronnie</strong> (<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/profiles/ronnie_corbett.shtml">1</a>) (<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/07/ronnie-biggs-free-compassionate-straw">2</a>) (<a href="http://www.ronniewood.com/">3</a>)! ALSO: not a synonym for "United Kingdom" or "Great Britain."</p>
<p><span id="more-29158"></span></p>
<p>England is a nation. It's part of a confederation called the United Kingdom, which comprises Great Britain (England, Scotland, and Wales) and Northern Ireland. Both of the people I cited above are conflating a part of the United Kingdom with the whole. Specific references to England are dandy, of course&#8212;Kimberly Krautter's friend might well have experienced a communal hospital room in England, for example, it's just that this follows what purports to be a comparison between the health-care systems of the United States and Great Britain. <em>Britain</em> would have been better here, since the same thing happens everywhere in the country. Careful writers will not confuse England with its neighbors.</p>
<p>IMPORTANT NOTE: Like many Americans, many <em>English</em> people use "England" as shorthand for "Great Britain" or "United Kingdom." Ask someone from Scotland about this tendency sometime.</p>
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		<slash:comments>3</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Copy-Editing Corner: Are Bands &#8220;It&#8221;s or &#8220;They&#8221;s?</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/06/copy-editing-corner-are-bands-its-or-theys/</link>
		<comments>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/06/copy-editing-corner-are-bands-its-or-theys/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Beaujon</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[9:30 Club]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[allman brothers band]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apple]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[black cat]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[collective soul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[copy-editing corner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fiery furnaces]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[merriweather post pavilion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[partick thistle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[widespread panic]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=29118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My blog item yesterday about media organizations axing copy editors and receptionists set off a firestorm of comments about whether musical groups should be referred to as singular or plural entities. OK, actually it was two people. OK, both people commented on my Facebook page, not here. But this does not mean I can't get [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/files/2009/08/We-can-do-it.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-29119" title="We can do it" src="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/files/2009/08/We-can-do-it-300x298.jpg" alt="We can do it" width="240" height="238" /></a>My blog item yesterday about <a href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/05/disappearing_media_jobs/">media organizations axing copy editors and receptionists</a> set off a firestorm of comments about whether musical groups should be referred to as singular or plural entities. OK, actually it was two people. OK, both people commented on my Facebook page, not here. But this does not mean I can't get another item out of it!</p>
<p>Both schools of thought have valid points. To wit:</p>
<h3><span id="more-29118"></span>The "Bands Are <em>It</em>s" Argument</h3>
<p>The word <em>band</em> is singular. Saying "<strong>Collective Soul</strong> are playing the 9:30 on Aug. 27" is as ignorant as it is a sad statement of fact. Collective Soul is a band. The band is playing on Aug. 27. It would be incorrect to say "Only a group of people with <a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ipo6-2009aug06,0,770184.story">unfashionable tribal arm-band tattoos</a> are going to the Collective Soul show at the 9:30 on Aug. 27." The antecedent is not the plural noun <em>people</em>, it is <em>group</em>, which is singular. QED.</p>
<p>THE PROBLEM: Some bands have inconveniently plural names. To say "<strong>The Fiery Furnaces</strong> is playing the Black Cat on Aug. 8" is to create something almost as difficult to listen to as the new Fiery Furnaces album. So this rule requires a big honking exception: "The Fiery Furnaces are playing"; unfortunately, "the band is out of ideas." It can look odd to have both forms of address in one article.</p>
<h3>The Bands Are <em>They</em>s Argument</h3>
<p>People write sentences like "<strong>Widespread Panic</strong> are opening for the <strong>Allman Brothers Band </strong>on Oct. 6 at <strong><a href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/03/25/merriweather-posts-extra-l/">Merriweather Post Pavilion</a></strong>" because people <em>say</em> "Widespread Panic are opening for the Allman Brothers Band on Oct. 6 at Merriweather Post Pavilion." It's unnecessarily stilted for a publication that doesn't address people by "Mr." or "Ms." on second reference to sound so stuffy. Moreover, consonance reigns in your music section. All bands are <em>they</em>s.</p>
<p>THE PROBLEM: Why should the music section follow different rules from the rest of the publication? Because musicians lack unfashionable tribal arm-band tattoos? "<strong>Apple</strong> are releasing a new iPhone?" "The government are declaring war?" Asinine! (INTERESTING SIDENOTE: In the United Kingdom, many ostensibly singular entities are referred to as plurals: "<a href="http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/editors-choice/2009/08/06/partick-thistle-go-camouflage-for-new-kit-86908-21576928/">PARTICK Thistle have found a unique way of topping last season's headline-grabbing pink kit &#8211; by launching a new away strip in camouflague.</a>" Then again, the story misspells <em>camouflage.</em>)</p>
<h3>My feeling:</h3>
<p>Platform agnosticism is <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">underrated</span>overrated [DOH! WISH I'D HAD A COPY EDITOR LOOK AT THIS]. Just as there are features that work better online and features that work better in print, the way you talk and the way you write can be different. Anyone who's ever heard me stammer through an interview would probably agree! I say option 1.</p>
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