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	<title>Comments on: Why Does The Pershing Park Case Matter?</title>
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		<title>By: jf1</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-699859</link>
		<dc:creator>jf1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-699859</guid>
		<description>...by the way...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/12/17/road.trips.maui.highway.tl/index.html

But Lahaina is also a town rich in well-preserved history, a history that juggled the relationship between the whaling industry and the missionaries during their heyday in the mid 1800&#039;s.

From a look at the records available in the old prison, Hale Paahao (&quot;stuck-in-irons house&quot;), built by King Kamehameha III to detain unruly sailors who refused to return to their ships by sundown, it&#039;s easy to see which group prevailed more often than not.

In 1855 there were 330 convictions for &quot;drunkenness&quot; and 169 for &quot;fornication,&quot; as well as 89 for &quot;furious riding.&quot;

But apparently life in the prison, which is beautifully preserved, with its well-manicured yard under large monkeypod trees just off the main drag, was not all bad.

Seaman William Mitchell Stetson confided in his diary: &quot;Male and female all had freedom of the prison yard and mingled promiscuously.&quot; And if the hardships of jail life ever did become too much of a strain, the wooden cells were barely secure and the coral restraining wall, at just over 10 feet high, was easily scaled once the sailors sobered up.

...so you see, there *is* legal precedent for restraining the prisoners to prevent mass fornication and the resulting lawsuits ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>...by the way...</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/12/17/road.trips.maui.highway.tl/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/12/17/road.trips.maui.highway.tl/index.html</a></p>
<p>But Lahaina is also a town rich in well-preserved history, a history that juggled the relationship between the whaling industry and the missionaries during their heyday in the mid 1800's.</p>
<p>From a look at the records available in the old prison, Hale Paahao ("stuck-in-irons house"), built by King Kamehameha III to detain unruly sailors who refused to return to their ships by sundown, it's easy to see which group prevailed more often than not.</p>
<p>In 1855 there were 330 convictions for "drunkenness" and 169 for "fornication," as well as 89 for "furious riding."</p>
<p>But apparently life in the prison, which is beautifully preserved, with its well-manicured yard under large monkeypod trees just off the main drag, was not all bad.</p>
<p>Seaman William Mitchell Stetson confided in his diary: "Male and female all had freedom of the prison yard and mingled promiscuously." And if the hardships of jail life ever did become too much of a strain, the wooden cells were barely secure and the coral restraining wall, at just over 10 feet high, was easily scaled once the sailors sobered up.</p>
<p>...so you see, there *is* legal precedent for restraining the prisoners to prevent mass fornication and the resulting lawsuits ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen V</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-694283</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-694283</guid>
		<description>Great coverage.


(btw Why does your comment posting system require an email address?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great coverage.</p>
<p>(btw Why does your comment posting system require an email address?)</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-691635</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 03:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-691635</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s all about principle. Sure you can say it was one day of discomfort, but it will happen again if it isn&#039;t rectified now &quot;jf1&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's all about principle. Sure you can say it was one day of discomfort, but it will happen again if it isn't rectified now "jf1".</p>
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		<title>By: downtown rez</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-690513</link>
		<dc:creator>downtown rez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-690513</guid>
		<description>Having just read the transcript, the word &quot;disgraceful&quot; comes immediately to mind...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having just read the transcript, the word "disgraceful" comes immediately to mind...</p>
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		<title>By: downtown rez</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-690511</link>
		<dc:creator>downtown rez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-690511</guid>
		<description>*not an excuse (there is none), just an possible explanation.
Hey, I was there with a camera and I choked on tear gas too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*not an excuse (there is none), just an possible explanation.<br />
Hey, I was there with a camera and I choked on tear gas too.</p>
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		<title>By: downtown rez</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-690510</link>
		<dc:creator>downtown rez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-690510</guid>
		<description>You are right, Joel.
That&#039;s just another way that Williams WAS NOT in touch with the street.
I mean, who the fuck can defend a sitting police chief that sanctions those actions against peaceful protesters?
The only excuse I can imagine is that, in the shadow of Seattle and, later, 9/11, America&#039;s security forces were CONVINCED that there was no such thing as &quot;friendly&quot; dissent, or &quot;peaceful&quot; protest.
And that is a dark spot on all our souls that I don&#039;t think we&#039;re quite over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right, Joel.<br />
That's just another way that Williams WAS NOT in touch with the street.<br />
I mean, who the fuck can defend a sitting police chief that sanctions those actions against peaceful protesters?<br />
The only excuse I can imagine is that, in the shadow of Seattle and, later, 9/11, America's security forces were CONVINCED that there was no such thing as "friendly" dissent, or "peaceful" protest.<br />
And that is a dark spot on all our souls that I don't think we're quite over.</p>
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		<title>By: jf1</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-690500</link>
		<dc:creator>jf1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-690500</guid>
		<description>What they&#039;re getting is 7 years plus worth of agony after they were hog-tied to a gym floor for a day, without access to a bathroom.

There&#039;s no way that a court can make up for this and in the end they are just torturing themselves even more...there are so many ways that this case can end in a non-decision, forcing them to start all over again, with even less hope of success. The city is just showing the plaintiffs that they get paid to drag this out, paid out of their own tax money, and anything they win? They will also pay tax money which will go to pay off most of the players. This is basically nothing more than a long two-fingered salute all around.

I&#039;m just waiting for Ramsey to show up in court and say that he ordered the arrest of the protestors who were disturbing the peace and threatening to interfere with the orderly flow of pedestrians through the park, not everyone there, and that order was simply misunderstood by overzealous subordinates. &quot;Oh, that&#039;s all there was to this? Case dismissed&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What they're getting is 7 years plus worth of agony after they were hog-tied to a gym floor for a day, without access to a bathroom.</p>
<p>There's no way that a court can make up for this and in the end they are just torturing themselves even more...there are so many ways that this case can end in a non-decision, forcing them to start all over again, with even less hope of success. The city is just showing the plaintiffs that they get paid to drag this out, paid out of their own tax money, and anything they win? They will also pay tax money which will go to pay off most of the players. This is basically nothing more than a long two-fingered salute all around.</p>
<p>I'm just waiting for Ramsey to show up in court and say that he ordered the arrest of the protestors who were disturbing the peace and threatening to interfere with the orderly flow of pedestrians through the park, not everyone there, and that order was simply misunderstood by overzealous subordinates. "Oh, that's all there was to this? Case dismissed".</p>
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		<title>By: Angry Al Gonzales</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649835</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry Al Gonzales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649835</guid>
		<description>Lanier should be fully hog tied in the same conditions suffered by the people she wrongly arrested.  Film it for youtube.  She&#039;s a lying snake - she found it easy to stand up with her wrist cuffed to her ankle?  

Liar.  She sounds like Rumsfeld - I stand all day at my writing table, so why can&#039;t Gitmo prisoners stand all day?

The people who are suing should not settle until they get what they want.  If they each want a million dollars, so be it.  After their rights were violated by the District, those people have the right to pursue their case for as long as they want [provided, of course, the courts allow them to do so].  

If they each want a billion dollars, that&#039;s their choice, that&#039;s their right.  If you don&#039;t want to be sued &amp; have to spend years in court before paying $50 or $100 million in damages, then don&#039;t violate people&#039;s rights.

Maybe if the District has to pay $100 million in damages, the peasants who live here will revolt &amp; throw the bums out - bums like Lanier, Fenty, Nickles, et al.  Odds are, though, that nothing will happen - the beaten down poor people &amp; the self-absorbed transient hipsters just don&#039;t give a shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lanier should be fully hog tied in the same conditions suffered by the people she wrongly arrested.  Film it for youtube.  She's a lying snake - she found it easy to stand up with her wrist cuffed to her ankle?  </p>
<p>Liar.  She sounds like Rumsfeld - I stand all day at my writing table, so why can't Gitmo prisoners stand all day?</p>
<p>The people who are suing should not settle until they get what they want.  If they each want a million dollars, so be it.  After their rights were violated by the District, those people have the right to pursue their case for as long as they want [provided, of course, the courts allow them to do so].  </p>
<p>If they each want a billion dollars, that's their choice, that's their right.  If you don't want to be sued &amp; have to spend years in court before paying $50 or $100 million in damages, then don't violate people's rights.</p>
<p>Maybe if the District has to pay $100 million in damages, the peasants who live here will revolt &amp; throw the bums out - bums like Lanier, Fenty, Nickles, et al.  Odds are, though, that nothing will happen - the beaten down poor people &amp; the self-absorbed transient hipsters just don't give a shit.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649828</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649828</guid>
		<description>Please Please PLEASE keep up the reporting on the Pershing Park case.  It highlights how unaccountable police authority is and how much more accountable it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please Please PLEASE keep up the reporting on the Pershing Park case.  It highlights how unaccountable police authority is and how much more accountable it should be.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649678</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649678</guid>
		<description>Ask the plaintiffs why they have not settled.  That could be enlightening.  Or maybe not.  But it would be journalism.

I like reading about the Perishing Park case.  Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask the plaintiffs why they have not settled.  That could be enlightening.  Or maybe not.  But it would be journalism.</p>
<p>I like reading about the Perishing Park case.  Keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Hurts</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649668</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Hurts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649668</guid>
		<description>Maybe the Plaintiffs want some serious nonmonetary relief. Has anyone from the city offered to meet with all of the victims and sincerely apologize for this disaster?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the Plaintiffs want some serious nonmonetary relief. Has anyone from the city offered to meet with all of the victims and sincerely apologize for this disaster?</p>
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		<title>By: ArlingtonAaron</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649628</link>
		<dc:creator>ArlingtonAaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649628</guid>
		<description>And yes, props to Jason and the City Paper indeed. There&#039;s a lot of complicated stuff to dig through to get to the essence of this case, and you&#039;ve been doing it since the days after the arrests themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yes, props to Jason and the City Paper indeed. There's a lot of complicated stuff to dig through to get to the essence of this case, and you've been doing it since the days after the arrests themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: ArlingtonAaron</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649626</link>
		<dc:creator>ArlingtonAaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649626</guid>
		<description>I do think that the Plaintiff&#039;s attorneys aren&#039;t *refusing* to settle... instead, I think that they are rightly valuing the price-tag that this should cost the city... the opt-out plaintiffs seemed to settle for around 10K a piece, but that was before the recent sanctions threat, damning depositions, a successful appeals round, and judging decisions and language that indicate that the Judge has a complete understanding of the astonishing depth of the civil rights violations at play here. 

If this case is taken to trial, it would be a massively large number that would come out in the end. Therefore, a total settlement number around 15-20 Million would probably be fair... 40-50K a protester, plus the attorney&#039;s fees and costs. I&#039;m pretty sure that the city is balking at that. Perhaps a few million in sanctions fines and a raft of adverse inferences will properly adjust their thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think that the Plaintiff's attorneys aren't *refusing* to settle... instead, I think that they are rightly valuing the price-tag that this should cost the city... the opt-out plaintiffs seemed to settle for around 10K a piece, but that was before the recent sanctions threat, damning depositions, a successful appeals round, and judging decisions and language that indicate that the Judge has a complete understanding of the astonishing depth of the civil rights violations at play here. </p>
<p>If this case is taken to trial, it would be a massively large number that would come out in the end. Therefore, a total settlement number around 15-20 Million would probably be fair... 40-50K a protester, plus the attorney's fees and costs. I'm pretty sure that the city is balking at that. Perhaps a few million in sanctions fines and a raft of adverse inferences will properly adjust their thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff gerhard</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649613</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff gerhard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649613</guid>
		<description>also, props to jason cherkis and the washcp for continuing to cover this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, props to jason cherkis and the washcp for continuing to cover this.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff gerhard</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/08/24/why-does-the-pershing-park-case-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-649612</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff gerhard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/?p=30500#comment-649612</guid>
		<description>Hope the plaintiffs continue to refuse to settle.  I wasn&#039;t around for the Pershing Park fiasco, but vividly remember the A16 arrests from 2000 when Ramsey blatantly lied to the media about the events surrounding hundreds of illegal arrests.  Anyone know what happened to the lawsuits stemming from that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope the plaintiffs continue to refuse to settle.  I wasn't around for the Pershing Park fiasco, but vividly remember the A16 arrests from 2000 when Ramsey blatantly lied to the media about the events surrounding hundreds of illegal arrests.  Anyone know what happened to the lawsuits stemming from that?</p>
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