Playing the Feudâ„¢ — Celebrity Edition!
Sally Jenkins classied up the City Desk comments section last night, coming in after a post by Editor Erik Wemple to admit that she understands why folks other than her bosses don't want her writing so many stories about Lance Armstrong.
But Jenkins took a short break from the confessional to say that in a previous post I'd made an error about how extensive the Jenkins/Armstrong library is: "By the way," she wrote, "tell Dave McKenna it’s only two books with Armstrong, not 'several.'"
Those words hurt, coming from such a high place. And her allegation seems so dead-on; I really had written that she wrote "several" books, and she really had only written two. And the first of several online dictionaries I visited in hopes of a reprieve gave definitions of "several" that indicated I was guilty as charged.
But then I thought of Lance, who would never ever just cave and admit his accusers were right, no matter how obvious his guilt, no matter how strong the evidence.
So on I googled...
...and I found this: "Several (sev ar ul) adj. As in many, multiple, more than one, quite a few, boy what a lot of 'em, etc."
"MORE THAN ONE!"
Ok, so it ain't Webster's. It's a definition used by the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute's bio-chemistry department.
I'll ride with them!
So...while RPI nerds would clear me of your charges, Sally, I wonder what this gaggle of bio-chemists would say about Lance's guilt if given a look-see at several CC's of his vintage pee pee!
And while I've got you, Sally: You said in the comments section that you explored the Armstrong/Contador alliance because it was like watching Joan Crawford and Bette Davis brawl.
Well, in that very same column about Lance and Contador, you mention him being interviewed by Frankie Andreu.
Frankie Andreu? Lance's former teammate and most credible accuser? The guy whose accusation, in a court case, put the "Lance Is a Doper!" charges into high gear? The guy who never retracted his damning testimony?
That Frankie Andreu?
Heck, if Armstrong/Contador is like Joan Crawford/Bette Davis, then isn't Armstrong/Andreu like Joan Crawford vs. the dude who wrote "Mommie Dearest"?
Who wouldn't want to read how Lance feels about talking to his primary accuser? But that relationship gets no play in your Washington Post copy.
That's why some of us dwell on whether these Tour de France stories are affected by the several (RIP, RPI dictionary!) two books you've written with Lance.
Sorry for rambling through the Pyrenees here, Sally. It really was fab of you to stop by. Please come again.
7:53 pm
The "dude" who wrote Mommie Dearest was Joan Crawford's adopted daughter Christina.
8:54 pm
Hi there. It wasn't Frankie Andreu who accused Lance, Frankie has never been his "primary accuser." If memory serves, Frankie's wife Betsy once said during a lawsuit Armstrong had filed to defend his name that she was in his hospital room during his cancer treatment when she heard him say something to his oncologist about drugs. The doctor flatly contradicted her and said no physician would have such a conversation in front of others. Also, no one else who was in the room has any such recollection, including Frankie. The jury ruled in favor of Armstrong to the tune of millions. Frankie has said he he believes his wife must have misunderstood something. Lance and Frankie were teammates for a long time, and as far as I know, Lance has always liked him. Does that pass as an insight?
Contador and Armstrong will play Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte in the mountains this weekend. Who pushes who down the stairs first?
9:04 pm
Correction: I just looked it up, and Andreu did back up his wife's testimony, he didn't contradict her. So he did accuse Armstrong of cheating. Other people in the room contradicted their testimony, including the doctors, and the jury sided with Armstrong and awarded him several million. According to Armstrong's doctors he was being treated with steroids and EPO during his chemotherapy, and they believe the Andreus must have misinterpreted something they heard. At any rate, I've never known Armstrong to say anything against Andreu.
9:20 pm
Back to the main point, I wouldn't classify Andreu as Armstrong's "primary accuser." Although he stood by his testimony, he has also consistently said that he has never personally seen Armstrong use anything illegal, and has seemed pretty uncomfortable with accusing Armstrong. I would say the title of "main accuser" should go to Greg Lemond.
8:53 am
For someone who nitpicks about 'two' and 'several' you sure seem to play fast and loose with the facts, Jenkins. There was no jury in the SCA arbitration case. The arbitrators' finding had nothing to do with doping and shouldn't be interpreted as a vindication. Armstrong's doctor Craig Nichols was himself rewarded with 1.5 million soon after his testimony in said case.
You're a reporter, right? Why would you report one side of the story without apparently ever talking to the Andreus for their side? Shame on you, Jenkins. You have long lost your objectivity and your credibility out of love for a buck or hero worship. It seems the only person who isn't aware of this is yourself.
9:05 am
Sally, I think you will be issuing a more formal revocation and apology when Betsy Andreu's lawyers step in.
Being Armstrong's PR, is not journalism, you are a disgrace to the profession.
10:51 am
My mistake, I should've gone back and refreshed my memory on the case before I posted, since it was a few years ago. Look, I've never pretended to be an impartial reporter where Armstrong is concerned. I'm an opinion columnist, and I make it clear to anyone who reads me that I'm also his co-author, and his friend. Armstrong's got scores of enemies and skeptics, but I'm not one of them. Anyone interested should go read the case for themselves, and make their own decisions about it. You can see how Armstrong viewed it as a vindication, since he won it, that's all.
10:57 am
I can't believe there are so many comments on such a stupid post.
11:08 am
Ms. Jenkins, are you intentionally and willfully lying regarding us or are you just so completely ignorant of the facts? You have never once contacted us with regards to our testimonies. You are absolutely wrong on so many accounts here.
There was never any jury in the SCA arbitration case and never any finding of fact for doping regarding your hero, lance. Fact is the ruling was issued on a matter of Texas contract law.
As far as you saying Frankie testified he never saw lance dope, why don't you ask lance for all of Frankie's corrected and notarized depositions?
In regards to the infamous hospital admission by Lance, six people were in that hospital room other than lance and the doctors who entered. Only four were deposed. Lance and Stephanie lied about that infamous hospital incident; Frankie and I told the truth. Chris and Paige Carmichael and Lisa Shiels Bela refused to sign affidavits and/or testify for lance. James Startt testified that Stephanie McIlvain did indeed verify the hospital incident happened (i.e. Lance admitted to having used PEDs). Also, Stephanie McIlvain is on a recording with Greg LeMond stating that lance admitted to using those drugs in that same hospital room. When she was later deposed, under oath she testifies that two men entered the room but didn't hear anything those men (doctors) said. She became deaf. Ex-Friends Say Armstrong Admitted Drug Use : NPR I won't even get into the many phone calls she has made to me since we all were deposed. Her pain is immense. This begs the question: how is it possible we misunderstood these doctors who, as you say, said lance "was being treated with steroids and EPO during his chemotherapy" when lance testified no doctors ever entered that hospital room where we were all present. Can you please clarify? Craig Nichols was not one of the doctors present in that hospital room either. Come to think of it, Dr. Nichols must be the only doctor in the world who doesn't ask his patients - as his affidavit states (pertaining to lance) - if they have used any drugs other than those used for medicinal purposes. Then again, Tim Herman publicly stated that lance was asked over and over again if he was on anything and lance merely responded he drank beer.
Lance Armstrong Denies Doping Report, French Newspaper Says Cyclist Admitted Doping To Doctor In 1996 - CBS News
Yet another conflict between Lance, his attorney and his doctor.
Lance shouldn't have anything against Frankie and as you state you've "never known Armstrong to say anything against Andreu." I'm not surprised. Frankie is probably the only true friend lance has ever had as an adult. Frankie was the only friend Lance had who didn't ride on the Lance gravy train. I wouldn't doubt Lance misses that friendship. Could it be why he wanted Frankie alone to interview him for tv? When this question alone was posed to Philippe Martens, press agent for Astana "Why did Astana choose Frankie (to interview Lance)?" Mr. Martens responded with a laugh, "I will not tell you why. The reasons don't have anything to do with cycling." You can find that article in the tabloid, Le Monde http://www.lemonde.fr/sports/article/2009/07/07/lance-armstrong-prend-un-malin-plaisir-a-s-entourer-de-ses-meilleurs-ennemis_1216073_3242.html Maybe it's a little more than friendship lance misses something called credibility.
Speaking of credibility, yours has been long gone. Your dad was an esteemed writer. Every time you write an article on your buddy lance, from whom you've benefited very well financially via your two book deals on him, you besmirch the Jenkins name. Integrity does have its place in journalism. You, however, do not.
11:12 am
Here are the links that didn't come out above:
NPR: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5508863
and to CBS Sports: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/23/sportsline/main1747814.shtml
11:28 am
By Alan Abrahamson
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-armstrong24jun24,1,2697400.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&track=crosspromo
12:16 pm
Nice to see Betsy bringing the truth into the conversation, something Sally appears to be not understand the meaning of.
12:26 pm
Way to defend yourself, and the truth, Betsy. How Ms. Jenkins can write or comment about something without fully investigating the facts, or even contacting you, is just sloppy, trash journalism that falls far below the standards in the profession. Pure incompetence...she should find another
profession.
12:45 pm
Betsy you are awesome!
Well said, I read her article and she should be embarassed, but heck she made a lot of money and so the story goes on. Makes me sick.
1:55 pm
I give it a week before certain people have Betsy's comments on here removed (like happened in the UK recently).
No comment on the comment from Sally?
2:48 pm
Betsy Andreu. You rock.
2:58 pm
Betsy,
Guess what: live coverage on OLN and now Versus is because of Lance and Frankie's job for them is because of....well, you can figure it out.
3:07 pm
Betsy is wrong on only one point here. Le Monde is not a 'tabloid', instead being one of the most serious and respected newspapers in the world!
3:12 pm
Betsy Andreu,
Obsessive vindictiveness, you wear it well. Continue to spew your garbage because it reflects on the person you really are.
3:33 pm
Betsy, K A is right: please do not let the facts get in the way. Sally Jenkins doesn't have to respond to the obvious questions begging to be asked. Don't be a strong person and fight the invective intelligently. Be a doormat like all the other woman whose silence is promoting the Lance Myth. What does your post say about you, K A? Betsy doesn't back down and she's obsessive? Get real. Just say you don't care Lance doped. Say she's obsessed now what? How do you counter what she's written above?
As for Versus, that station is nothing but pro-Lance. Smart of Armstrong to only want Frankie to interview him. It got people talking and suggesting, by mere appearance, that all was well between Lance and his accuser further isolating that obsessive vindictive bitch as being the one who testified against him.
Betsy you're refreshing. Don't be weak and continue to be strong.
4:15 pm
Betsy,
Nicely done. We all know that sometimes it take the truth a while to catch up with a lie. I think everything you said was spot on, particularly the fact that Frankie is probably one of the few true friends LA ever had.
Sally,
Are you going to be there to prop up LA when he takes his fall? It's going to happen, especially when he runs for TX Governor, and serious journalists unlike yourself will be digging into LA's background.
Or when Tyler or Floyd decide to come clean on all of it. Also Sally, to get a taste of what real journalism is, why don't you open up From Lance to Landis. You'll be puking in the toilet by the time you're 1/8th of the way through.
Love,
Reid
6:47 pm
Why is it that if someone doesn't want to believe what Betsy says they attack her personally instead of refuting her claims?
It must mean what she says is true....and it scares those who believe in the myth of Lance.
6:50 pm
KA = Stephanie?
7:13 pm
Betsy,
I admire you greatly and have done for the past few years. Paul Kimmage, David Walsh, Greg Lemond, your husband and of course yourself deserve immense credit for the courage you have shown in standing up for the truth. The real cycling fans, the ones who have followed the sport since before 1999, know the truth here. Long before this, Sally Jenkins had become a figure of fun, but this episode is unbelievable. Sally, I accept that Lance is your friend. But you still need to deal in facts. Otherwise, there's a nice niche in fiction awaiting you. What really is annoying here is that alot of people reading won't actually be the true cycling fans and will accept what Sally says as being true. I would implore anyone to read From Lance to Landis. Jst go in with an open mind, and see what you think. Walsh is a multi award winning journalist, who took time out from his job (unpaid leave), to write the book. Financially he would have been better off staying in his job for this period, but he felt that the truth needed to be told. REAL JOURNALISM.
Thanks for all your efforts Betsy, they don't go unnoticed by the real fans. I just wish that JV had shown the same strength of character and courage in relation to the IM conversation.
8:34 pm
First, thanks Sally for answering the initial call to respond. That definitely takes some courage to respond. Especially when an unkown person like me, 'Dave', can respond directly to someone like you that is so much more well known.
Thanks, definitely, to Betsy for clarifying and providing what are pretty commonly known facts at this point.
Why are they commonly known? Because, thanks in part to your work Sally and Lance's record and his ongoing aspirations with A and B-list young women, among other divergent interests, he has become something of a celebrity.
But, for someone that does claim to know Lance really well, for someone who is a journo -- even if it is opinion pieces -- and for someone that has written two books on this subject, the grasp of these facts is remarkably shallow. It just isn't very believable that you, of all people, would have to check your facts and would, of course, only do so once you were called on your assertions regarding them.
Yes, Frankie did testify that he heard Lance say those things. Simple. No real controversy. No fudging about it. No recanting later.
Was he under a lot of pressure to do otherwise? Now there is a question a journo might want to pursue.
Frankie, however, didn't write one, or even two books about it. No profiteering on his part.
If anything, his testimony has damaged or held back his career.
Thank you for commenting on some of Lance's juvenile challenges like tossing gasoline-soaked, flaming tennis balls around and lighting roofs on fire in 'It's not about the bike', but it is too bad you didn't write about his adult tendencies like the well-recognized and oft-discussed blacklist and the apparent vindictiveness.
Perhaps, Sally, you could tell us whether the current embracing of Frankie by Lance and JB is consistent with how they have treated Frankie these past few years.
Dave.
10:37 pm
As a furtherance of my above points, an almost 20 min tape recording exists between Frankie Andreu and Lance's agent Bill Stapleton. Bill is on the recording trying to convince Frankie to stop Betsy and himself tesifying. Not once on this recording does Bill actually say to Frankie that the hospital room incident did not exist. It is a given that it did happen. At the SCA trial, Bill was asked under oath if he had spoken with Frankie at the 2004 Tour de France. "I saw Frankiest the Tour. You know, on and off the bus, say hello." Another telling quote from Lance's friend Bill Stapleton: "Because the best result for us is to pick away at him (David Walsh the author of From Lance to Landis) enough that he's taken things and sort of pieced parts together and show The Sunday Times and show the Publisher that it really is falling apart, get an apology, drop the f%%%ing lawsuit and it all just goes away. Because the other option is full out war in a French court and everybody's gonne testify and it could blow the whole sport".
Stephanie McIlvain testified under oath that she never heard Lance admitting to taking PEDS in the hospital room. But here's what she said to Greg Lemond, which is on tape, shortly before the case: "Being subpoenaed, I don't have a problem because I already told Jim (the Founder of Oakley where she workd) I won't lie. And the part that pi%%es me off about the whole thing, even if Lance and I were close now, it's how many people he has given false hope to, and I think tht is the most disgusting thing ever for someone to do...From somebody who has a child with a handicap, you look up to people who've gone through the same thing, snd you look for hope and you look for strength".
10:54 pm
KA = Kristen Armstrong?
I don't know but the initials match up!
2:34 am
Betsy, another voice in support here - stay strong and keep telling the truth. It can't have been easy when your husband was co-opted into the Armstrong PR campaign but you have both, as usual, responded with professionalism. Keep doing what you do.
Interesting article and responses - it's a shame Ms Jenkins doesn't exercise the same professionalism in separating here job from her private feelings about Armstrong.
9:39 pm
KA, are you Kristin? Betsy was not vindictive. If she was vindictive she may say something like "gees, must hurt you Lance impregnated naturually a women ten years younger than you, and was cavorting with former child actresses, and was never faithful while you were married". But hey, Betsy is too classy to say something like that.
9:34 am
KA = Kristen Aldridge???????
Did he nail you too?
I thought he only liked blondes.
Not that you had any journalistic integrity anyway but now you've sealed the deal......
Oh yeah, Cialis is a doping product also..Much better than Viagra.
Lance only uses the best stuff from the best doctors.
Love,
Reid
3:11 pm
Betsy - you have a strongly held belief, and an opinion, but in the US we only convict through appropriate formal processes. Many people with considerable resources have taken shots at Lance's reputation formally and informally. The facts remain that Lance is innocent by definition (RPI, Webster, or Constitution, whichever source you choose). Your willful disregard for the conclusion of governing bodies and legal boards of arbitration shows a lack of character and credibility. You have an opinion, you have stated it formally, it was deemed to be irrelevant or not credible by folks who have the authority to make these judgements. It is incumbent upon you to accept the judgments of reviewing bodies that your claims do not constitute proof of cheating. Myriad explanations for the words you either heard or thought you heard make sense, and do not lead to the conclusion that Lance cheated or doped. Your insistence on a matter is embarrassing, not to Lance, but to you. It is the kind of behaviour you expect from school girls on the playground who got dumped by a guy who was really popular, so they take some sort of scorched earth approach to defaming his character. Facts are that you are not a medical professional, and you are not qualified to comment on the substance of a physician's discussion with their patient. You do not have the skills to interpret what is being said, nor do you have the context of previous discussions or later discussions to know the context of the words. This is one of the reasons we have laws in the US protecting speech between patients and physicians, and we also have laws against slander. I do not know if your continued insistance on speaking against Lance meet the legal definitions required for defamation of character or slander, but they meet my personal definition of morally reproachable actions. You have destroyed your own credibility and character through your unscrupulous behavior, and should be ashamed.
9:29 pm
Greg:
do you write with the same attitude about andy pettite? i mean, the nerve THAT guy has to say what he heard some unconvicted doper say, just cuz he heard him say it!
and you keep saying what "we" do "in the US" to back up your condescending phony moralist crap. well, greg, i know we in the US don't use "behaviour"! so take your pompous heinie across the pond or north of the border, for crissakes!
but thanks for Playing the Feudâ„¢!
12:41 am
Greggie,
I believe that Betsy would only be guilty of liable or slander if she knew what she was alledging to be false.
Being that the truth is an absolute defense to defamation in the US, Betsy has very little to fear and would probably welcome a suit from Pharmstrong and then countersue the philandering bastard. Anyway, Pharmstrong will never take action against Betsy because he knows it will only prove his guilt. So much $hit would be dredged up about Pharmstrong in order to ascertain the reasonableness of Betsy's beliefs that it would be a pyrrhic victory at best for PHARMSTRONG! In Bill Stapleton's words, "it would blow the whole sport."
BTW jerkoff, Frankie has Stapleton's above quote on tape.
Greggie, in conclusion, why don't you educate yourself on the Pharmstrong doping issues? Then STFU!
8:54 am
Betsy you are a trooper
Brave of you to post
I heard your 1hr interview on that radio show, you're a credit to the country/ what your country once was (free and brave)
Wish I could find the link. Your clear honesty really opened. Yeyes and I had to wake up. I still love cycling but I am under no illusion anymore
It all stems from the first lie. So sad for so many , especially the wives/ partners
9:19 am
Greg, would you care to hear a tape recording of Stephanie McIllvain, also in the room, telling Greg Lemond that she too heard Lance admitting PED use? I have the link if you want to hear it.
Bill Stapleton, in a 17 min tape recording with Frankie Andreu, not once refutes that the hospital room took place. It is implied in the way he talks. When Franie talks about being there and having heard what was said, Bill doesn't refute, correct him or dispute a word.
Not even Lance and ihs legal team could agree on what happened. Lance said nothing of that nature occured, whereby doctors came in, while those people were there. Lance's lawyer though says that the people present got mixed up, that they actually heard what his treatment drugs would entail. Truth shouldn't vary. Betsy's story has never changed one bit, and has been backed up on numerous occasions.
9:27 am
I don't know if LA doped, but I've spent several months reading about it, listening to all the tapes, and scouring countless cycling/doping forums, looking at academic papers from physiologists, etc..... I certainly think it's plausible that he doped, but I'm not yet fully convinced (and please do NOT send me links to anything or point out apparently ironclad facts or chains of reasoning....I'm not here to argue whether he did or didn't).
I will say that it's become clear to me a LOT of people are 100% convinced he doped. That's fine. I think there's plenty of evidence out there, circumstantial and otherwise, to support the claim.
However, the accusers are also the loudest, most obnoxious and close-minded participants in the discussion. As soon as someone disagrees with them, they're f-ing jerks, idiots, fanboys and should just STFU!!! I mean.....it's so clear that people either need to be on the bandwagon that LA is the world's biggest doper and a-hole, or they must be insanely stupid and not worthy of engaging with in reasoned discussion. Of course, the accusers think it's unreasonable not to see how obvious his guilt is. But that's the way the world is, you have to demonstrate the claims of your argument, and if you can't do it sufficiently well, disagreements remain. At this point, making ad hominem attacks only undermines your position.
I'd love to sit down and have a few beers with someone who was convinced he has doped and someone convinced he hasn't, but it seems like one side (and this is just my anecdotal evidence) would start screaming at the other that they were fkn idiots LA-saddle-sniffers, and the night would be ruined. I'm sure there are plenty of loud and obnoxious supporters......but trolling through the forums and discussions on cycling sites simply doesn't turn up many of them.
So I remain unconvinced, even after Betsy's statements above. Again, I'm not convinced he DIDN'T dope, far from it. However, I would like to find out more and get to the bottom of this, if possible. But it appears that there's no room on the side of the accusers for anything other than total conviction. Sorry, I'd rather drink beer with people who don't come across like zealots.
Until that becomes possible.......I'll just duck and try to keep reading.
10:27 pm
Betsy, Just wanted to say there are many of out here who admire your bravery to stand up to the machine. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
6:16 pm
I don't like Lance. He is nothing to me.
1:19 pm
The focus on whether or not Lance doped is ridiculous. The fact is (backed by dozens of positive tests) that the majority (if not all) of the top 20 riders in every grand tour from the early '90's up to the past two years doped in some form or another. The most common and effective drugs are testosterone and EPO (and variants), and the most effective practice is autologous blood doping. The only reason for any decrease in the past two years is enahnced testing and this year, the blood passport which has nearly eliminated autologous blood doping.
The only difference between Lance and the other guys is that not only did he have more talent and prepare better, as well as have the most ridiculously good luck for seven years, is that he was smarter than the rest at managing his doping and dealing with the innuendo. Had he not doped he wouldn't have won and nobody would give a rat's a$$ about him, and someone else who was doping would have won. Because of the near-impossibility of catching a smart person who is doping, those that believe in the ethical, undoped, grand tour winner are living in a complete dream world that doesn't exist. Making Lance out to be the boogeyman of doping is simply denying the overwhelming reality of doping in endurance sports. Oh, and it's not just cycling, either.
3:23 pm
Are all those sally jenkins comments fake? Such a bizarre series of quick comments begs the question .... or otherwise seriously embarrassing
10:22 pm
No they are not fake. I have always found Sally very impulse lady, this seems to be reflected in her writing style. After reviewing many of Lance's BP numbers I am sure he was taking a cocktail of PED's. Although he looks to be riding clean now.
10:55 pm
Armstrong war an und aus vom Fahrrad sehr gut! Ich versuchte, ihn mit meinem Tempo und EPO zu zerquetschen, aber jetzt werde ich entehrt. Armstrong ist noch das Beste überhaupt.
11:03 pm
Der oben genannte Idiot ist ein Imposter und ein can' t-Bann mein Name. Ich komme aus Ruhestand heraus und reite mit Armstrong am " Shack". Klode erklärt mir, dass das Programm besser als überhaupt ist!
2:08 am
Si prega di smettere che mi doni, è un insulto! Vaffanculo pezzo di merda!
2:13 am
*sniff* *sniff*...anyone have a tissue? AHCHOOO...gezondheid...
7:47 pm
Hi all, I'm a singer wrong righter and I have been given grate inspiration from the words written here on this hollowed page, I think the Jedi Christ guy can be made to bleed, I have the teflon nails eready. Who gets to play Judas is a hard on . Made Marion is a John Wayne part for sure, we will get at least two ressurections out of this and with the Lazurus Wayne dynamics we may even get to bury the JC and still have a happy ending, see you's all in Golly Good, unless the injun peloton getz me,safe sanity, Burt.