Comments on: Old Questions About Crashworthiness of Metro Cars

By: UNFIT for a Bailout | UNFIT

UNFIT for a Bailout | UNFIT — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:45:47 +0000

[...] these, prompt criticism of that paper), wide-ranging coverage (including a really nice, early read of NTSB safety documents by Mike DeBonis) and live-blogging of multiple press conferences that provided both blow-by-blow [...]

By: Did Tax Shelter Keep Old Metro Cars in Service?: Loose Lips Daily - City Desk - Washington City Paper

Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:50:13 +0000

[...] cars—and possibly contribute to the high number of fatalities in Monday’s crash? LL was first to report Monday that WMATA cited ‘tax advantage leases’ in telling that NTSB that they would be [...]

By: 1000-Series Metro Cars: How to Avoid Them, If You So Choose - City Desk - Washington City Paper

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:08:09 +0000

[...] different types of Metro cars—specifically how the oldest ‘1000-series’ cars were judged by the NTSB years ago to offer substandard levels of protection in a [...]

By: jnocook

jnocook — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:07:45 +0000

Alan, it seems so easy for you to criticise while not knowing the facts. It was reported that the emergency stop on the trailing train had been pressed and there's no indication that this wasn't OTHER than a mechanical / signaling / computer control issue.

By: Eric L

Eric L — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:35:47 +0000

Not to seem like I am on the side of WMATA, but this chronically cash strapped agency is in this position not so much from mismanagement or waste, but because there is no dedicated funding stream coming from the District, MD, VA or the Feds. Every year there is a battle between the different government enitities on how much to fund Metro. Must make planned modernizations and improvements almost impossible to implement in a timely manner. We are very blessed to have a first rate modern and efficient subway system, but the facts of the matter is it is aging and without a steady stream of funding accidents like this will continue to happen.

By: Alan

Alan — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:08:57 +0000

There was recently a rear end collision on the Green line in Boston. It occurred in a station and the station surveillance cameras showed that the driver of the moving train was texting on his cell phone at the time of the crash. I have no idea what the driver of this WMATA train was doing at the time of yesterday's crash, but it is abundantly clear what she was NOT doing--she was not doing her job, and specifically, her duty to stop her train before it struck another train stopped on the track ahead.

By: Shagmag

Shagmag — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:00:42 +0000

A source from WMATA provided the following information;

Both trains where headed from Glenmont (End of line) into town at the time of the incident. Train # two collided with train #1 with better that 60 feet of the incident train embedded into the end car of train #1. The operator of car # 2 and eight others were fatally injured as a result of the collision. (Total 9 dead) The trains were single tracking at the time of the incident. He recited that it did not appear the first train derailed as reported by the news, but could not confirm. The incident train was a 1000 series car which was 31 years old. The NTSB is heading the investigation. While the trains system has ATC which would not allow a vehicle to come within 500 feet of another vehicle. The absolute block of the signal system may not have been engaged. Information and opinion gleaned from an individual on the scene.

By: Morning Newsdome: French culture shock | Fresh Loaf

Morning Newsdome: French culture shock | Fresh Loaf — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:49:56 +0000

[...] Our sister paper, the Washington City Paper, has been posting regular updates on the D.C. metro crash story: see photos, updates, and some background info. [...]

By: abuzznDC

abuzznDC — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:42:36 +0000

The chronically cash strapped WMATA has snubbed the recommendations of the NTSB for years and thus creating this recipe for disaster. These lapses in rider safety and the wrongful death and injury claims which are sure to follow, should keep WMATA with 'hat in hand' for years to come with the ridership doing the bankroll. When all the findings are in, Senior management at WMATA should be shown the Exit.

By: Q

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:29:19 +0000

Okay Alan. I stand corrected. In reviewing the photos, telescoping did occur, but as you implied, not to the degree of the videos presented. Of the "striking train" the chassis seems to be missing, unless it collapsed under the frame upon impact. What the images do show is more of a question of physics. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion, so with that, the "striking train" had to dissipate the energy and velocity in which it was traveling. The "stationary train" did absorb some of this energy based on TV video, but its mass was enough to cause the "striking train" to launch upward. BTW, its kinda hard to investigate why the operator/driver didn't hit the brakes when she is deceased. The only thing they are left to investigate is whether the signaling or the ATO failed some how.

By: Alan

Alan — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:07:12 +0000

I see little sign of "telescoping" in the photos of the recent collision. I don't think you know what that term means. It does NOT refer to going airborne and ending up on top of another car. It refers to the car collapsing like an aluminum can when you stomp on it. The "telescoping" problem the NTSB was concerned about does not appear to have been a factor in this crash. What you should be investigating is why the driver of the moving train did not stop before rear ending the stationary train.

By: Q

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:18:16 +0000

Here's a thought, why not move the 1000 series cars to the internal train and have the front and rear cars be the safer (5000 series) ones? If 26% of the fleet is 1000 series, that is a significant enough to at least do some shuffling of the cars to minimize telescoping and at least have more data recorders.

I'm not NTSB and my comments are solely based on the evidence here. Thanks Robert for the video. It looks that the difference between the crashes is that the cars have a buffer area built in to lessen the impact.

By: Robert proudfoot

Robert proudfoot — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:49:38 +0000

The Federal Railroad Administration has conducted tests to prevent telescoping before in 2006.

Here is a video of the new design for Crash Energy Management. It illustrates what you are talking about with the need for new safety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3whFgsNKUQ

By: Fenty Press Conference #3: Liveblog - City Desk - Washington City Paper

Fenty Press Conference #3: Liveblog - City Desk - Washington City Paper — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:40:26 +0000

[...] First question: Expound on the crashworthiness of the train cars. [Mike Debonis is on the crashworthiness question here]. [...]

By: Our Morning Roundup: Metro Crash Aftermath - City Desk - Washington City Paper

Our Morning Roundup: Metro Crash Aftermath - City Desk - Washington City Paper — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:21:58 +0000

[...] night with a Deputy Fire Chief who was on the scene and ended up driving an ambulance. LL wonders: Are DC Metro cars safe? Need help with your commute? WMATA notes that red line service will be severely [...]