Comments on: God Bless Maryland? Goddamn Maryland!

By: Dave McKenna

Dave McKenna — Fri, 23 May 2008 20:50:05 +0000

Reid:
ok, reid, i accept your last word: Legally segregated schools are the way to go!

By: Reid

Reid — Fri, 23 May 2008 20:28:15 +0000

Ok fine. I hate Maryland too, but it’s because I hate all ACC teams. Big East forever!

(But just cause I can’t let anything go: I wasn’t saying that the pre-1954 schools weren’t completely segregated. I was saying that they were of better quality relative to the White and suburban schools of their day than our current schools are. So while our schools are (somewhat) less separate, they’re even less equal).

By: Dave McKenna

Dave McKenna — Fri, 23 May 2008 19:51:30 +0000

Reid: you can’t get more segregated than 100 percent, which is what DC schools were pre-1954, so I don’t know what you mean by “worse” segregation. i wasn’t around for the old system, so everything i know about the segregated schools comes from reading old newspaper stories about such things as the shift of the building on 13th St. from white Central High School to black Cardozo High School. get this: “separate but equal” was a hoax!

my head’s hurting, Reid. seriously. let’s stick to sports-related hate for now. please!

By: Reid

Reid — Fri, 23 May 2008 19:11:03 +0000

True, but I guess I thought you were implying that the Black DC schools were in terrible shape before 1954. My impression is that while they were worse than the White schools of the time, they were comparatively better (and certainly closer to the regional norm) than our modern schools, which aren’t even that much less segregated.

I’m not so sure I agree that it was the “us vs. them” attitude that resulted in the catastrophic decline of DCPS, the MPD, and DC as a whole. I suscribe to the Dream City idea that it had more to do with the history of Home Rule (or lack thereof). I believe that if there were more of a history of local governance by the time Home Rule occured, we wouldn’t have been stuck with an awful government of Barry (which, imo was the single most detrimental element in the history of the city’s decline). Before the late 60’s, there was literally no civic engagement. How can you expect either a “good government” class or an effective political machine to emerge from that?

Plenty of other cities had worse segregation and “us vs. them” attitudes than DC, yet few of them had as such a percipitous decline (and the ones that were as bad normally had a huge loss of factory jobs [e.g. Baltimore and Detroit], which didn’t happen here). That’s because they had more of a culture of civic engagement. As one senator said of DC (I’m paraphrasing) “I’ve seen good governments that can’t deliver good services, and I’ve seen corrupt governments that could deliver good services, but DC is a corrupt government that can’t deliver good services”.

By: Dave McKenna

Dave McKenna — Fri, 23 May 2008 18:12:49 +0000

Reid:
it ain’t like the city schools started with a clean slate in 1954. without DC’s clearly defined US vs THEM situation pre-Brown vs. Board of Education, surely the post-1954 collapse of the schools wouldn’t have been so severe. school segregation was just one symptom of a larger evil that did a number on this city that it won’t get over in my lifetime.

having said that, this issue is about as complicated as the meaning of life, and i have no special insight into that, either, so i better stop here before my head explodes.

By: Reid

Reid — Fri, 23 May 2008 17:27:55 +0000

Massachusetts definitely has more than it’s fair share of racism, but if you’re going to talk about “history” than I think you’ve got to give it credit for being one of the most abolotionist states in the North. Now that all occured a long time ago, but you did say “historically”.

And re: DCPS. I would certainly not defend segregation, but I ask you: would you rather send your children to pre-1954 DC schools or to the ones we got nowadays? At least back then students got an education along with the injustice of segregation. Now they just get the segregation part.

(I don’t have Dream City in front of me, but I do recall it saying that DCPS, even the segregated ones, were actually pretty decent before the politicization of the school board [and White and middle-class Black flight] destroyed them).

By: Dave McKenna

Dave McKenna — Fri, 23 May 2008 17:00:23 +0000

Charles ‘78:

First black ACC football player: 1963
First black ACC basketball player: 1965
First black ACC basketball coach: 1986

yeah, you SHOULD be proud of that, Charlie! from your tone, i’d bet those racial milestones came to your school far too early for your liking. if you’re actually boasting about that history — and you are boasting, aren’t you Charlie? — you must be some piece of work. good god.

but, thanks for playing the feud!

By: Charles '78

Charles '78 — Fri, 23 May 2008 16:43:28 +0000

First black ACC football player: Maryland
First black ACC basketball player: Maryland
First black ACC basketball coach: Maryland

Get your liberal head out of your liberal ass!

By: Dave McKenna

Dave McKenna — Fri, 23 May 2008 16:12:15 +0000

Eaton:
two words: Massachusetts!
“maybe”s and “might have”s are for sissies, for sure, but i only know more about maryland because of geography. and, being a native of Virginia, a state that elects noose-lovin’ macaca-haters, and spending the last two-plus decades in DC, which has as embarrassing and hateful a racial history as anybody — look up DC schools pre-1954 and get back to me — i don’t feel right slamming other states too much…there’s a whole lotta evil out there, guy.
but, thanks for playing the feud!

By: Eaton

Eaton — Fri, 23 May 2008 15:49:57 +0000

“Historically, Maryland might have the worst combination of a liberal veneer and a racist foundation of any state in the union.”

Then again, it might not. Take a stand McKenna.