Live Music Expanded in Mount Pleasant
Today, another battle has been decided in the ongoing war over live music in Mount Pleasant, and both sides are claiming victory.
For the past year, Mount Pleasant restaurants Don Jaime's, Haydee's, and Don Juan's have been working with neighborhood group Hear Mount Pleasant to terminate their voluntary agreements with the Mount Pleasant Neighborhood Alliance. The voluntary agreements, or VA's, restricted hours for live entertainment and prohibited cover charges and dancing. Catch up on some background here.
In yesterday's ruling, the ABC board amended the MPNA's voluntary agreements with Don Jaime's and Haydee's , but did not terminate them (a ruling on Don Juan's voluntary agreement is slated for next Wednesday). Under the new agreement, hours for live music have been significantly expanded: The restaurants may host entertainment Sundays through Wednesdays until 11:00 p.m.; Thursdays until midnight; and Fridays and Saturdays until 1:00 a.m. Dancing is now permitted, as are cover charges.
In a press release, Hear Mount Pleasant declared the ruling "a major victory." In their own release, the MPNA focused on the fact that the ABC board "denied the request to terminate voluntary agreements."
"I think it's great," says MPNA President Laurie Collins. "I think the board made a fair decision and I think they made a decision for all parties involved."
Hear Mount Pleasant finds the ruling cause for a little bit more celebration: A live-music bash will be held at Haydee’s on Sunday evening. Hear Mount Pleasant Steering Committee member Eugene Stevanus says, "we're very excited because our goal this year was to bring back music to Mount Pleasant restaurants. We see it as a victory."
Could this ABC ruling have achieved a truce in the longstanding conflict between Mount Pleasant neighborhood groups?
It seems that, despite the compromise, there are plenty more Mt. P issues left to hash out. Stevanus says that his group remains "disappointed" that the MPNA voluntary agreement wasn't terminated entirely. "We provided the board with considerable evidence and testimony that the MPNA has not been a trusted player in the VA process in our community," he says. "There are still some restrictive provisions in place from what we see as a very paternalistic neighborhood group." One MPNA provision Hear Mount Pleasant still hopes to amend is its "happy hour" restrictions against discounting drinks in the three restaurants. Collins says that, while she's willing to negotiate MPNA's agreements with local businesses, the issue is a complicated one.
"What a community group wants for a business and what that business itself wants are not always the same thing," says Collins. "You listen to the neighborhood, and you hear all the suggestions, but at the end of the day, you're dealing with the owner and what he wants," she says. "We have to ask ourselves, are we doing what's best for Eugene, or are we doing what's best for the business and the neighborhood?"
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3:08 pm
Many so-called Voluntary Agreements have limited music by genre, relying on the musical expertise of the well-known critics on Advisory Neighborhood Commissions. I do not see anything that forbids this absurd practice.
3:15 pm
Suck it Laurie Collins...you can spin it any way you want, but you lost this one big time....
4:01 pm
I don't feel it a loss at all. Maybe you want to explain what I have lost "big time". I believe it's quite a victory for everyone and the decision quite predictable.
MPNA supported live entertainment, it was basically down to the hours and days. The ABC Board split the baby (again, expected). Of course, these places could have had live entertainment last year had they come to us in the first place.
As to Amanda comparing press releases: The MPNA press release was a regurgitation of the ABC Board's decision. Sure our press release focused on the MPNA agreement not being terminated. That was a huge factor for us. Why? Because the Hear Mt Pleasant's main mission and their main focus of the hearing was to overturn all of the MPNA voluntary agreement.
That didn't happen. That is a victory.
Second, it was the first attempt in our city's history for an ABC establishment to request termination of any agreement. And for the Board's first case, that's pretty substantial as well.
No spin was necessary.
I feel pretty good.
LC
5:05 pm
I feel pretty good too Laurie. Especially after I spill some almost babies on your forehead.
10:05 am
"Many so-called Voluntary Agreements have limited music by genre, relying on the musical expertise of the well-known critics on Advisory Neighborhood Commissions. I do not see anything that forbids this absurd practice."
The ABC Board has finally done something to address that
http://www.hearmountpleasant.org/docs/VA_do_and_dont.doc
"9. Music – The agreement cannot prohibit an Applicant from playing specific types of music such as country or go-go. The agreement can prohibit the Applicant from having live bands or a disc jockey. "
11:31 am
Mdesus, you are DESPICABLE. what a disgusting thing to write. Please go get a life.
The Hear Mount Pleasant crowd makes me sick to my stomach...what a bunch of idiots are in the midst of this crowd.
12:32 pm
Mdesus and anna:
Please, please let's not let this discussion go the way of others in the past -- we may disagree on issues and we may even harbor some unpleasant feelings toward individuals on both sides of this issue but let's not get nasty and ugly and disrespectful -- PLEASE. We've had so much of that and it's really hard and upsetting to see it continue.
Let's use our online boards, blogs, discussion forums, etc., to talk about the issues rather than calling each other names.
As I see it, the Board's decision was a compromise -- they gave the businesses dancing and cover charges, and more live music than the MPNA wanted, but they ultimately did not terminate the VA's. I think that's pretty much what both sides were anticipating. While it's true, as Laurie states, that the businesses could have gotten live music last year if they had come to the MPNA to ask for it, they would not have gotten dancing, cover charges, or nearly as much live music as they have now. They most likely would have gotten what Marx Cafe has -- which is a very limited amount of live music (I believe around 12 nights per year) with restrictions on how many musicians there can be and with a requirement that they notify the MPNA in advance. The businesses wanted more freedom than that and they didn't want to have to ask the MPNA for permission for these things -- instead they wanted to get out of their agreements. Well, that didn't happen, but they did get the ability to offer live music every night of the week, dancing, and the ability to charge a cover. So I think it makes sense that both sides feel victorious -- MPNA's VA's remain, but they have been changed to include the wishes of the business owners and those in the community that want to have live music and dancing.
The question now is whether and how we can all work together respectfully and productively. There are still some concerns that business owners and neighbors have about provisions in the MPNA agreements that aren't consistent with VA's MPNA has with other establishments -- namely the ability to offer drink specials. If the business owners would like to offer these kinds of specials in the same way that Tonic can under it’s VA with the MPNA, then hopefully they can negotiate for this. I am confident the MPNA will be open to these kinds of discussions.
Thanks.
Andrea Blatchford
Steering Committee
Hear Mount Pleasant
12:36 pm
Hey there. Just to be clear: not everyone who supports the return of live music is affiliated with Hear Mount Pleasant. As these comments continue, please bear in mind that they do not necessarily represent the views, values or position of Hear Mount Pleasant.
I celebrate the decision of the ABC Board that awarded the hours Hear Mount Pleasant has been pushing for for over a year (they just shaved off 1/2 hour on Fri and Sat nights). I also acknowledge the compromise that kept MPNA's Voluntary Agreement though changed some of its provisions; we all had a win with this decision.
2:17 pm
Wow! I feel so luck y to live in Mt. Pleasant among such an opiniated group of people!
7:24 pm
Yes, Janelle, it is quite the win for everyone. But my question to you is this:
Why do you have to state that you lost a 1/2 hour on Friday and Saturday nights, or why didn't you say that you lost an hour during the week, or that you lost the main thrust of your entire protest which was to terminate the MPNA VA? Or even a divisive statement like, "the Board struck down a provision in the MPNA agreement"....(which is so silly b/c MPNA had already agreed to last year)?
Really, at the end of the day, it's about healing and compromise, which your group still doesn't get.
Laurie Collins
6:44 am
Ms. Collins,
Are you the same person who signed an entry on the Cleveland Park listserv regarding Klingle Road, as being a Woodley Park resident?
Why not pick a neighborhood and stick with it?
By the way, when did this alleged conversation take place with Councilmember Cheh where she supposedly disrespected Porter Street residents?
8:54 am
andrea and janelle:
You are not in a position to tell me or anyone what to write. After the negativity coming from Hear Mount PLeasant, the playing of the race card, the personal attacks on neighbors, the bad blood created by you in the neighborhhod, why would you think you can take the high ground with any type of credibility?. you do not fool anyone here.
We have seen a lot of divisiveness as a result of Hear Mount Pleasant. YOU personally bear responsibility for losers like Mdesus going around writing the despicable stuff they do. You set the stage. you bred these bad blood and misisnformation (look at Janelle. she can see only what is convenient. it must really hurt you that THE VA is the MPNA VA...) and your shameful talk of discrimation and racism....well, what did you expect? rational reactions from your supporters to your trash??
you should be ashamed of yourselves. now you want to make nice and talk about issues? i laugh out loud!
and u dare to talk of Values..... what a joke coming from you! all the neighbors that i know who know about this issue (most neighbors do not know and do not care in the least) despise your group, because they have seen your 'values" in action.
please get a life and some perspective. i have never written too much on this, but your hypocrisy amazes me. let me tell you this loud and clear...: this might be your reason to be alive, but neiighbors dont care much about the music issue. i live close to the zoo (the real zoo, not Don Juan) and it does not affect me. it just happens that i and others HATE the NASTY stuff that we see coming from your group. upsetting? tell me about it! Mdesus is an extreme example of idiotic behavior, but he only follows what we have all seen from you and your supporters for months! i could provide examples but since you know that what i am saying is true, why waste my time?.
see the posting above?: case and point. attacking LC was started by you and followed enthusiastically by spineless others while you smiled by the side. even on her residence! TWO of you MEDDLE here when you do not even live here. i think that the two of you are shameless and that since LC owns a home here she has everyright to be involved in any and all places where she has a stake. unlike you!
Congratulations. you made mtp a worse place to live and neighbors dont like u. really.... i would not want to be in your shoes. no disrespect "ladies"...! just calling it like i see it.
Anna
MtP Homeowner.
I exist and unlike some of the people in your group, I have a MtP address. and if i ever meet any of you i will tell you to your face what i think of you and your type of people. but meeting you is nothing i look forward to! Ciao. i will not waste more time on you.
10:11 am
Anna,
I'm glad to hear you exist and live in Mount Pleasant. As always, my home is open to you and any others that would like to have a civil discussion about our neighborhood.
Perhaps you would like to come over for dinner this Sunday? My wife and kids and I would be delighted to meet you and hear about your hopes and dreams for Mount Pleasant. Please contact me at Eugene.Stevanus@verizon.net so that we can schedule a suitable time.
Have a good weekend -- I look forward to our meeting and becoming more acquainted.
Regards,
-Eugene Stevanus
Hear Mount Pleasant Steering Committee
12:13 pm
at least one in that odious group has a MtP address. the rest should back off!
i agree with anna that hear mtp is pretty damn unpleasant. way to go girl! say it like it is.
12:40 pm
I am re-posting a segment of a submission to discussion on Marc Fisher's Washington Post blog about this issue. He wrote a very good piece, to check it out, go here: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/2008/04/mt_pleasants_faint_strains_of.html
As for the issues around race and class, it is very unfortunate that these tensions still exist in our neighborhood. But the reality is that many members of the community have felt discriminated against for a long time. As a group, Hear Mt Pleasant is committed to listening to these concerns. We will not sweep them under the rug or tell people who feel discriminated against that they are being divisive simply because they are speaking their own personal truths. We are committed to listening to everybody, to opening the dialogue to include voices that may have not previously been heard, and to healing these tensions through open, honest, and respectful dialogue.
I love Mt Pleasant. It is my home and my community. Since people continue to bring up the issue of myself and Ms Avery not living in the neighborhood, I will reiterate what I have said before -- Ms. Avery may live two blocks away but she shops and eats more in Mt Pleasant than Columbia Heights. She lived in the neighborhood for many years, but when she and her husband started a family, they couldn't afford to buy a house in Mt Pleasant, so they bought one as close to the neighborhood as they could afford, which is less than 2 blocks away. I lived in Mt Pleasant for many years until I couldn't afford it anymore. I now live for cheap in LeDroit Park, but will be moving back as soon as I can find a 1BR apartment for under $1000, or until I pay off enough of my student loans to afford the high rents in Mt Pleasant.
There's no reason why people who have lived in Mt P, been dedicated and committed community members, and still shop and eat and play on the main strip, can't participate in community affairs simply because they've been priced out.
Thanks,
Andrea Blatchford
Steering Committee
Hear Mt Pleasant
1:10 pm
Anna said:
"and your shameful talk of discrimation and racism….well, what did you expect? rational reactions from your supporters to your trash??
you should be ashamed of yourselves. now you want to make nice and talk about issues? i laugh out loud!"
To call discussion of all hard issues as divisive is not constructive. We believe that issues of race, and issues of discrimination ARE real issues, and are issues that we as a neighborhood can and need to work on. We look forward to working with anyone who is looking forward to making progress on issues, including these.
Thanks
David Sachdev
Steering Committee
Hear Mount Pleasant
3:26 pm
Posting Marc Fisher's column is not something to be proud of and shows even more proof of what Hear Mt. Pleasant hangs their hat on. Fisher is an idiot, most people can't stand him. Fisher and Hear Mt. Pleasant belong with each other.
11:40 pm
you hear mtp people act dumb so well! and you all act dumb with the same rehearsed meaningless words. very cute...at least you can learn your lines well. LOL...LOL
"discussion of hard issues"??? you equate your low accusations with inteligent discussions? u must be kidding us. You did not discussed. u accused without base. u ALL know it. and u ALL know how neighbors have come to object to your pathetic little group not because of music but because of your viciousness.
that Mdesus posting paints fully the picture of what your achievemnets in this neighborhood are.
Discuss?! please,u do not know how to discuss! do you even realize that you look like illiterate fools next to LC?! Your "discussion" was to call LC and other neighbors racists and harrassers in writing and in secret and in the press. and when many neighbors said that you were out of line you made this smokescreen of "discussing tough issues". hearmtpers, please grow up and own up to your sorry behaviors. who do you take us for? little children that follow for touchy feely meaningless babble??? the "we listen" ?? after what we have seen from you???
you had a concerted effort to discredit the MPNA and now the MPNA is the one with the VA...:-( and you sit by the side....LOL...LOL...i have nothing to do with the MPNA but i cannot fail to see that it is all about who gets to sign and that is not you.
to andrea and natalie: thanks for the link! Glad to read that people are taking exception to your meddling here. you were priced OUT......then GET OUT!!!. I know that common sense is uncommon in your crowd but hey, it cannot be that hard to see that this is ABOUT NEIGHBORS not about you or your friends or the people that think you are wonderful community additions. you must have really distorted self-images. you feel that you both are, what??? a gift to this neighborhood that we cannot afford to lose???
Please, what a joke!!!
well you are not, far from it. like you yourself said, andrea, you two meddled in a hot button issue when it is NONE of your business. you caused damage by spreading your slander and assorted trash. we request that you two GET OUT. please get a life (outside), and realize that reasonable neighbors with some common sense DO NOT WANT OR NEED outsiders intervening in stuff that is none of their business. your friends must think you are great and all...but this is NOT about you or your friends is it...?. where you do draw the line???
Ms Avery eats and shops more in Mtp than in Columbia Heights...is that what, an excuse?? How pathetic...! so what!!!? Really...next thing, georgetown residents will come to tell us what is good for us because they eat and shop here, like someone said.
yes, Marc Fischer is a LOUSY writer but the comments are worth reading and coincide in pointing out that people are truly sick this little group and this topic and that NON-RESIDENTS HAVE NO RIGHT TO INTERFERE. buy a home, buy a business and all changes.... in the meantime, OUT it is.
and hey! thanks for the WP link!! I will post there a link to this.
Anna
7:51 am
After the bars close and it gets rowdy in Mt. Pleasant, drunks in the streets, more puking, fights,--- don't worry everyone, Andrea and Natalie will be sleeping quietly in their beds, not hearing the chaos, kids will sleep fine too---ELSEWHERE-----NOT IN MT PLEASANT!
1:24 pm
I am a columbia heights resident that laughs at what happens in mtp. If your idea of economic development is having live music in low class ugly dives serving undigestible food, well... mtp st will remain the sorry, uninviting and dirty street and neighborhood that it is today (mount unpleasant as widely known).
No other type of business will come to a main street plagued by low class establishment, drunks and noise. it is depressing to walk that street.
You should get rid of your ANC (i watched them on TV soimetime ago and they are clowns) and your asinine activists and get real business strategists!! it seems to me that your business organizations are inept as well. the low quality establishments plus the nightly chaos and drunks will increase the dirty, grubby and blighted appearance of your neighborhood.
i would be REAL PISSED if people from outside CH came here and tried to tell us what to do in CH regarding economic development or heck! any other issue. the two women whose names are mentioned over and overneed to get that once and for all, back off at once, and leave mtp neighbors to decide what is good for them. clearly, jusging by what i read, they are not in the least "community assets" but are becoming real "community pains in the ...".
it is evident that they irk many neighbors, and clearly for anyone but them, damn righly.
4:32 pm
"I would be REAL PISSED if people from outside CH came here and tried to tell us what to do in CH regarding economic development or heck! any other issue."
You do realize that the development in Columbia Heights was a city wide initiative, don't you?
7:49 pm
Mr. Sachedev, you miss georgets's point, and he's absolutely right and his description of Mt Pleasant is right on. Mt. Pleasant WAS doing fine until your group came along and stopped development of the street to move forward and paralyzing our community. In fact, Mt. Pleasant residents had an enormous part in helping CH where it is today. MTP partnered with CH in many charettes 15 years ago, but you probably don't remember since you were probably still in elementary school.....
10:12 pm
" In fact, Mt. Pleasant residents had an enormous part in helping CH where it is today. MTP partnered with CH in many charettes 15 years ago,"
I am sure that many Mount Pleasant residents helped Columbia Heights get to where it is today. And I am grateful that we have Columbia Heights residents working hard to make sure that Mount Pleasant is wonderful too. Maybe I mistake your case, but I am for people who have a vested interest in this community and are willing to spend their time and efforts to improve it to do just that.
I do believe that having restrictions removed does make Mount Pleasant much more inviting to new businesses. I believe that Mount Pleasant Main Street would agree with me.
If you agree with georgets that Mount Pleasant is an unwelcoming place I urge you to help and change that.
10:22 pm
david sachdev, what a sharp observation...:-)
1. the iraq war was a national issue.
2. CH development was a city wide priority.
3. live entertainment in mtp is a neighborhood issue.
now do YOU realize that music in mtp is a NEIGHBORHOOD issue? do you not think that only neighbors should participate in neighborhood decisions and that it is logical that people are PISSED OFF if outsiders meddle?
these women must think that they are God's gift to MtP; or "valuable" community members. Clearly many neighbors think differently and they are shouting loud and clear that they are not welcomed or wanted. it seems to me that they could be mother theresa, but if even some neighbors object them, they (if they had some self respect that is) would be better off getting out.
i am even more sorry for mtp folks. your activists are way too dense...this is not hard to understand is it?.
neighborhood issues should be dealt with by neighbors and your implication that anyone can intervene when they feel the urge, or need someting to fill their empty lives or need a place to sing etc. etc. etc. etc...is ludicrous. Your friends do not get it and neither do you.
you folks show insensitivity to an absolutely normal, understandable and reasonable reaction of neighbors which is, the REJECTION of the concept that anyone who does not live there is meddling in their affairs.
clearly you do not listen to your neighbors at all.
but hey! that was my two cents. after all i would never try to intervene in your affairs.
Keep Mount Pleasant Unpleasant! that should be your motto Hear MtP. Ciao.
10:24 am
From a long time "NEIGHBOR" IN Mt Pleasant
It is so frustrating to try to read through blog entries that have no purpose but to demean, scream, name call, avoid real dialogue.
Anyone that has followed this story for the past 10 years sees that Hear Mt Pleasant came about only after repeated attempts (yes going back ten years - we have printouts of the MPForum Blog to show it) to have discussion on the very issue of the VAs of Mt Pleasant. Those requests were met with deafing silence or worse we were told to go away we have no say. This from a group that once upon a time purported to represent the neighborhood but at some point changed to represent their members. A little over a year ago I became part of the group that came together to try to force open this door of discussion. At first we were dismissed as inconsequential and un-important. We persisted and established a greater neighborhood education and awareness. From the beginning we have been committed to dialogue. We have been committed to posting and vetting ideas. Sometimes that has set us up for attacks and spins that are just that - attacks and spins.
It was still months before the MPNA began to "share" bits of info.
Yes it was the shared ideas on music in the restaurants that brought us together but as a group we look beyond that and are committed to helping find ways for the unique 3 block business main street of Mt Pleasant to survive and thrive in a way that serves the ENTIRE neighborhood including the 80% or so that live in the highest concentration of apartments in the city.
If you've paid attention to the situation on Mt Pleasant St over the years not just this past one you also know that the street has been fragile and teetering on decline for a long time. Now 5 vacant storefronts, a burned out apartment building and businesses struggling to hang on. It is a street that has been dominated by that valuable but vanishing commodity in American retail - the independant owner. I hope it is able to hang on to that but it gets more difficult all the time.
Those that decry our efforts - how much do you visit & shop on MtP street. Not just today but going back over the years.
I have never understood this fear of music in the restaurants. Music doesn't make drunken problems - drunks make drunken problems. Someone going out to hear music in most cases won't drink as much as someone just going out to drink. Just because a room is now allowed to have music on any night does not mean they will. The greater scene is littered with great hopes of entertainment rooms that scaled back because the economics just didnt work. The same economics are in play when a room attempts to charge a cover for entertainment. Just because they can doesn't mean they always will. To take a room to task as I have seen on another blog because they may charge a cover on a given night is a straw dog. If someone doesnt want to pay - they have plenty of other choices and can vote with their feet.
The VA system that laid the groundwork for this ordeal needs to be mofified. There is just no way for ANYONE to afford such a slog as this one has been over something as simple as music in the restaurants.
I am more than proud of the work of Hear Mt Pleasant. I welcome the efforts of Natalie & Andrea and the other members of our steering committee. We have created discussion and cooperation across many groups in Mt Pleasant that just did not exist before. Our efforts will continue along those lines.
As a final note:
There is no place in ANY discussion for comments such as the one Mdessus threw out
Wayne Kahn
steering committee Hear My Pleasant
1:21 pm
that's too much blather and i just cannot digest self-congratulatory pamplets.
the issue is NOT VA Systems or music or your very narrow agenda of helping three low class dives to flourish...whatever...). the point is why would you...
-HAVE PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE THE NEIGHBOR DOING THINGS AND DRIVING AGENDAS THAT SOME NEIGHBORS OPPOSE TO?
WHEN...
-THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE MEDDLING!
THE FACT that YOU like them, or that YOU are "more than proud" of them, or that they push your agenda, has nothing to do with anything. george said it clearly, this is not about the two women, natalie or Andrea, or any of their friends (you included).
What they do is WRONG! THE ISSUE HERE IS THAT THEY HEAD A "NEIGHBORHOOD" ORGANIZATION WHILE THEY ARE NOT NEIGHBORS, OWN NO HOME OR HAVE NO BUSINESS IN MTP.
to endorse that is not a sign stubbiorness and even stupidity. why antagonize neighbors that do not have a problem with music but have a problem with outsiders meddling here?
and ....outsiders that have made a pretty public display of venom towards NEIGHBORS, as postings show as well.
THAT is the issue.
As a final note:
Read Anna.... your ugly type of activism brings about comments like Mdesus's. you all share responsiblity in tthe creation of an unpleasant Mount Pleasant, and anna nailed it.
1:23 pm
I lived in Mount Pleasant in a group house with four other recent college grads in the mid nineties. Mt. Pleasant was diverse, fun, and cheap. I remember the volleyball tournament at Mt. Pleasant day in 1994 when it was the Rasta bike messengers versus the Lutheran Volunteer Corps. I remember playing soccer in the Dust Bowl next to Sacred Heart. I remember the instrumental trios strolling up and down Mt. Pleasant Street on summer evenings. I remember working late, getting off the 42 bus, and picking up steak quesadillas and leche con arroz in the back takeout counter at Don Juan's.
Mt. Pleasant is now a highly sought after address and rightly so. Homeowners there like to tell their friends how progressive and open-minded they are and how they'd rather die than live in, say, Arlington. But what I see are a well organized group of mostly white (don't deny it) professionals using the machinery of government to regulate life to their liking on Mt. Pleasant Street. Let's face it, the needs -- and demands on public space -- of a single construction worker from El Salvador living in the apartments lining the main drag are a lot different from the needs of a homeowner in a $1 million townhouse.
Only one group of people, however, is having any say in how the community's main street is being used. And if you say you are just enforcing existing regulations, let me ask rhetorically whether the Alliance is snooping around all the renovations to townhouses being done to ensure that all regulations are being followed by homeowners.
Investing in real estate and making sure that investment appreciates is as American as apple pie. I'd just wish that the Alliance would be less hypocritical about its objectives. Basically your "diverse" neighbors are little more to you than props.
6:03 pm
I think you are right but that applies to both sides;
these are white people talking about what white people want, in both cases -MPNA or Hear Mtp
Hear mtp, has only white steering commitee members: WHITE music producers, musicians, and renters (yeah, this group seems less affluent for sure...they cannot even afford $1000 to pay rent)
On the other hand the only latino neighbor involved to my knowledge is one very inteligent latina that writes convincingly against Hear MtP. in fact, after reading her stuff, i switced from "i dont care" to "down with hear mtp" :-).good stuff.
the rest of latinos do ..what is it?... DC politicking?...office of latino affairs, latino this and latino that...all the stuff that abounds in DC.
Walk mount pleasant st. and not one store caters to the $1 million home owner. like george says, there are mostly low quality establishments, all filthy. You could say that the affluent group is not having their say or their needs met by this commercial strip. In other words, i beg to differ with you because you see the group that is "having their say" is not the affluent group. it is clear that this group shops elsewhere and puts up pretty much quietly with the third rate establishments and hygiene conditions of that depressing commercial corridor.
man, i am not rich and even i shop elsewhere. MtP St is filthy and except of the couple of "white/affluent" establishments, it is just depressing, bad quality joints.
What must be happening is that salvadorean construction workers do not want cleanliness and peace and order. They just like to eat bad quality stuff prepared in scary looking kitchens. believe me, these places are not even THAT cheap!
Damn the elitist Alliance! they do not realize one and for all that latinos like their streets filthy and noisy and that they cnnot wait to see them filled with drunkards at night. :-)
6:33 pm
Am I the only one who has seen "Footloose" the movie? It's just music, live a little.
I am so happy though that Marx Cafe will finally be a place you can listen to music more than once a month. I'm a regular there, but only on Raggae night which is limited to once a month, lame.
2:26 pm
Maybe the two bars/nightclubs would be willing to pay into a reimbursable MPD detail.
9:13 am
Chicho,
I don't see the conflict as Anglo/Latino. There are many affluent Latinos in the neighborhood, I am sure. The conflict is between the Alliance's vision of Mount Pleasant as a yuppie playground where immigrants serve to give the neighborhood a little flair and an alternative vision of a real neighborhood. I believe you can't stand in the way of market forces indefinitely so I have no doubt how this situation will play out economically. The people who support the Alliance will win the Battle of Mt. Pleasant Street. All that's left to argue over are the terms of surrender.
I see the Alliance's tactics as paranoid and heavy-handed. No one will argue against measures that improve quality of life. There are laws on the books against public urination, and there were citizen organized attempts to clean up Mt. Pleasant street and the Trolley Park when I lived there. The alliance wants you to believe that immigrants congregating for entertainment is the same as public drunkenness, litter, and public urination.
The retail reflected the economic resources of the residents. I shopped at Heller's bakery and Bestway, ate at Trolley's, Adams Fish, Little Giant, and Don Juan's, and used Leon's shoe repair, Lamont Dry Cleaners, Yoly's Variety, and the Jeweler's. I never considered any of these as "third rate" or "filthy." They served the needs of the community, myself included, so your assertion that I believe Latinos somehow deserve lower levels of service and cleanliness is off base. Most of these are now gone, replaced by upscale bars and cafes.
I am sure that as long as there is no Whole Foods or Banana Republic on Mt. Pleasant street, some will claim that they are being dictated two by the less affluent apartment dwellers.
When I lived in Mount Pleasant, the ethos was live and let live: Black/White, Gay/Straigth, Singles/Families, Students/Workers, Anglo/Latino. Differences were respected.
I know from working in several Democratic offices on the Hill that's it's more the rule than the exception for those professionals who are liberal in their political lives to be bourgeois in their personal lives, and in fact use their politics to justify or excuse their classism.
You seem to buy into the argument that because the Alliance supports the vague notion of improving the retail district physically, all will benefit. That's a noble goal, but what the alliance spends most of its time on is ensuring that immigrants are not allowed to congregate and socialize on Mt. Pleasant Street and that Mt. Pleasant does not become a nightlife draw for immigrants living outside of Mt. Pleasant.
And that's not the Mt. Pleasant I knew.
2:11 pm
The letter "U" is not a word, never use it as such.
5:14 pm
It seems to me that no one on either side of this argument has the best interests of the community in mind.
I
9:17 pm
In the case of Don Juan, inmigrants congregating for entertainment IS public urination, noise, and litter:-). but this is a boring, all too well known topic.
In fact, quality of life crimes are simply ignored in MtP. Look around: Despite laws against loitering, no one enforces this. Take a look at the sorry state of the 7-eleven corner, when any single weekend you will find 50 loiterers and 3 inebriated latinos sleeping it off on the sidewalk. laws against public urination?? You make me laugh. Anyone in Mtp knows that it is everywhere. Disgsuting! To WALK mtST feels far from hygienic!
MPNA is the only organization in the neighborhood with the mission of improving quality of life for residents. I do not think that it is heavy handed in the least to ask a business to sign a VA. By that standard, most city organizations would be heavy handed. Paranoid? that is an adjetive without any base and its use shows that you have no point to make but to attack the MPNA.
Heavy handed and paranoid are the tactics of people like you, who make a point of attacking the MPNA for no good reason or any base, my Hear Mtp friend.
I do not know who the "community" whose needs is being served is but i will say that none of the establishments you mention serves my needs or the needs of people like me, not rich, but with a somewhat discerning taste, and conscious of the fact that the ratio quality/price (in MtP establihments really sucks.
we are not served by this commercial corridor and neither are the owners of the million dollar townhomes. we have needs that go beyond Marx, Radius and Tonic (and the Raven?) (And THESE are ALL you can say is somewhat decent, ok, maybe add dos gringos). we need a decent grocery store, a decent coffee shop, a bookstore, quality foods that are not pupusas or Tex Mex, a quality gift shop, a quality bakery.
maybe the mtp you pine for is not the low/middle income place it once was. clearly the establishments there do not reflect the incomes of a large part of the neighborhood that can afford the exquisite homes that we can see to the west of mtp st.
Finally: I think the the MPNA spends most of its time doing great things for the neighborhood. until of course the ridiculous Hear MtP folks came, and forced them to put time and effort in stuff that is not that important: live music. You want latinos from outside the neighborhood to be served by this corridor? well, i rather have the neighbors themselves being served by these places. but like you said...the market will prevail...
now that the mpna vas are still in place, i hope that they can now continue doing the good work they have always done.
Latinos congregate and they do not need alcohol or live music to do so, let alone a bunch of white people who think that they understand more of latino culture and motivations than they themselves do. talk about paternalism...
finally: i see no conflict between having liberal politics and living well. your ideas are plain old fashioned, MtP alum. you must be really ancient.
unfortunately it is ideas like yours that keep MtP the downtrodden, dirty neighborhood it is (at least east of MtP street).
10:30 pm
Chicho:
If you consider Mt Pleasant downtrodden and dirty, why did you choose to live there?
Are you at all concerned about the impact of gentrification on blue collar/low income folks, or musicians or artists or those who work in social services or nonprofits who earn small salaries? Shouldn't there be room for everyone? Middle and upper income folks can come to Mt Pleasant and buy the beautiful houses, but I don't think that gives them the right to entirely change the face of our commercial strip to serve their needs. You say Mt Pleasant needs a "quality" bakery -- well, Heller's is practically a Mt Pleasant institution, does great business, and is extremely popular - just check out the lines on Saturday and Sunday morning for proof. Ipersonally love their breakfast sandwiches and German chocolate cake. Just because the establishments don't meet your standards doesn't mean you should be given any more voice than the tons of folks that have lived in Mt Pleasant for many many years and are served well by the businesses on the main strip.
1:59 pm
AndreaB:
I live in MtP because i happen to rent a large apartment in a beautiful historic home, in a shady, tree-filled clean street that feels far away from the dirty mess that the commercial corridor and others part of the neighborhood are. That is why. to top it all, i enjoy city conveniences and the proximity to downtown that MtP affords.
Anything wrong with that?
Gentrification is not a bad word. Some win, some lose. Some of those who win are low income people who happened to own property in places that are now hot.
Those that cannot afford it now? well they move elsewhere or get affordable housing! i cannot afford Beverly Hills myself and cannot complain. i am just a young engineer. we are mostly responsible for our career choices and lives, ... the musician or social service or artist should have known that money will be an issue, and that while she might never be able to afford a beautiful home in MtP or Georgetown, she will have the satisfaction of doing what she wants. money is not in these careers but, didn't you know that??!
you are only right in this:
both
rich and poor
good taste people and people with low quality standards
silly activists and normal neighbors
latino and white and black and all other races
etc. etc.
SHOULD coexist and there SHOULD be space for EVERYBODY.
my point precisely is that the commercial strip DOES NOT CATER TO EVERYBODY. It DOES NOT cater NOW to some groups: the affluent one, the one with better taste (or means), the one that enjoys thai and indian and french, and (why not?) great cuisine in a place with loads of ambience, or the group that would enjoy a clean, less gritty, less filled with drunks, less filled with loiterers, less pissing men, less gum in the streets, with better signage, light, etc. etc. etc. There is currently little to no space in the commercial corridor for this group.
Change entirely?? No! I think DIVERSITY is good. But there is no diversity in three or four lousy "latino"(?) grocery stores, six or more lousy pupusa tex mex places, four or so overpriced ugly trinket and apparel stores, etc. etc. etc. The only places that stand out from the crowd of ugly and uninviting establihments are Marx, Tonic, Radius and Pfeiffer (I have never been to the Raven)-(all of the catering to the needs of the more affluent home remodeling crowd in the fancy houses).
"The RIGHT to ENTIRELY change a commercial corridor? Interesting.
From what i understand, Andrea, you do not even have the right to open your mouth when it comes to MtP topics, because you can not rent and much less own a piece of MtP. My voice here counts while yours does not.
I do not say that my voice counts more than the voice of any one else that lives here. All I am saying is that as it is today, the diversity is and is not there. IS there in the sense of a variety of services/goods offered and that is good. IS NOT THERE because:
- they are all establishments with a lousy quality/price ratio,
- and they cater to only one "side" of the neighborhood. (The other shops elsewhere)and that is very obtuse. It is very obtuse not to see that there is a huge market WITHIN MtP.
No, I do not want to change the commercial corridor ENTIRELY. I think i want to make it truly diverse. I think that there is room for a commercial corridor that caters to the needs of this group, that so far is served there, and that now just shops and eats elsewhere.
you want to keep it depressed? suit yourself. you hardly hurt people like me, who just walk to Columbia Heights or Woodley or Fresh Foods in Dupont while enjoying our beautiful historic homes. You hurt business owners by putting them at odds with the people that have an ability to pay for what they offer.
really, first for all, you should be asking for enforcement against quality of life crimes and that would help these small businesses... live music?? please... I am certain there is not one among yourselves with a business degree.
A final line: I like Heller's bagels. I do not want Hellers gone. I just want a CHOICE ): a nice option would be a nice bakery with real bread, real pastries (no food colors, please), and good service.
2:34 pm
Chicho:
I think you need to understand that the places you describe as "lousy" or "ugly" do not necessarily reflect the broad sentiments of your demographic. I know plenty of people of comfortable socioeconomic means who shop regularly at Bestway, eat frequently at the pupuserias, and enjoy getting cheap laundry detergent at the dollar store. I always go to Bestway for avocados, mint, cilantro, and limes. I frequently eat at Don Juan, Pollo Sabroso, Haydee's, and Don Jaimes. I still get my prescriptions at the Mt P pharmacy, videos at Lamont Video, and pedicures at Ramona's. I know plenty of people in the more middle to upper class socioeconomic demographic that frequent these places as well, and are less attracted to fancy, expensive environments. We actually like places that aren't too shiny and polished. That does not correlate, however, with being "filthy" or "downtrodden." If you visit the Mt Pleasant Forum, you will see that there are folks from all demographics that frequent many of the businesses there and want them to stay.
FYI, two of the latino groceries have closed: SuperSave and Mt Pleasant market. If you want more places like Tonic, Marx, and Radius, then I suggest you mobilize your like-minded neighbors to make that happen, because by all means that's your right. Just please don't insult everybody else in the process.
In the meantime, if anybody wants a laugh: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51852
9:51 pm
calling these places (not all but many) ugly, filthy and downtrodden is not an insult. I believe it is an accurate description and I am entitled to say what I think.
i want SOME of the businesses to stay (just like the neighbors in the forum...neighbors dont want ALL to stay. just some, ask around!. most of us are dying for new offerings... in the meantime, we are thrilled with CH.
for people attracted to what we have, well what can I say? be happy and enjoy. that is your prerrogative too. I have no problem with people that like whatever they like.
Finally you got my point: not that i would mobilize for anything... economics will make it happen on its own time, i just have to wait and see while in the meantime take my business elsewhere.
but yes, it is my right, and it is the right of RESIDENTS to bring about any change they want. if only you, people from outside the neighborhood would just let us be.:-)
12:53 am
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