Live Strong-Arm! Lance’s Followers and Detractors Throwing Stones Right Here
There has been a fascinating and ugly debate taking place in the City Desk comments section lately between Lance Armstrong’s defenders and his detractors.
It started in a thread about the steroid circus now going on in the halls of Congress, when Betsy Andreu, wife of one of Lance’s former cycling partners, alleged that Armstrong has tried to ruin her life for saying that she heard him admit to doctors that he had used performance enhancing drugs.
Andreu’s comments brought a strong rebuttal from Tim Herman, a lawyer for Armstrong in a 2004 fraud case surrounding Andreu’s allegations about Armstrong’s drug use. (Both Andreu and Herman confirmed in interviews that the posts on the City Paper board are indeed theirs.)
Herman’s rebuttal has since been dissected and rerebutted piece by piece by Andreu and a horde of mostly anonymous anti-Lance posters. Somebody posting as MSM inserted a link into the thread for a really, really fascinating and really, really ugly Mp3 of a phone conversation between America’s first golden-boy cyclist, Greg LeMond, and Stephanie McIlvain, who testified in that case that she didn’t hear Armstrong admit to using performance enhancers.
In the conversation, which was taped surreptitiously — McIlvain at one point asks if it’s being recorded, and LeMond assures her it’s not — McIlvain confesses that she was in fact in the room with Andreu when Armstrong admitted using the drugs.
The fear and contempt LeMond and McIlvain have for Armstrong and his lobby makes the conversation gripping, despite the low-fi quality of the recording. LeMond alleges that Armstrong is out to ruin him, and says that before “I have 17 years of my life destroyed by Lance, I will go down fighting!”
There’s likely nothing new contained in the allegations posted here. All the events alleged to have taken place in the thread took place a long time ago, if at all — the confession of drug use that Andreu says she heard from Armstrong was in the mid-1990s. The LeMond/McIlvain tape has been making the rounds in the cycling underbelly since at least last fall.
But, the passion in this thread makes it clear that the suspicions about Armstrong’s cleanliness as an athlete aren’t going to go away soon. And with what’s taking place across town right now — with federal lawmakers ready and eager to go back in time to investigate cheating and drug use charges in baseball and football —
by the end of the LeMond/McIlvain conversation, listeners are left with one big question:
Hey, Congress: When’s Lance Armstrong Coming?
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3:01 pm
What I find more fascinating than the actual use of steroids is the accused user defending himself not just to a governing body but to the entire American public. Take Floyd Landis for example. The evidence is fairly strong that he used steriods to help him win arguably the most exciting, and most improbable stage of the Tour de France. In spite of the testing evidence, Floyd is as sure he did not use drugs as the sun rises every day. For the sake of argument, I’m going to assume he’s lying. I figured this lie would eat him inside out. But I think I’m totally wrong. Lying at this level is perhaps just as neccessary as lying to your mom about where you were last night. I guess the shame of the truth is so incredibly worse than the shame of lying, that it makes emotional sense to continue lying?
Marion Jones admitted to using, so is this a case of “the truth will set you free”? Or is it more likely that Jones was acting in a practical way, and worried about the legal implications of her continued denial. In the same practical way that Landis denies, the consequences of the truth out weights the consequences of lying.
6:40 pm
Dave,
Seems to be we had this discussion online several months ago.
And it seems to me I tried to explain some the physiology and science to you.
And it seems to me that it either didn’t register, it was beyond your level of understanding, or you’ve just decided to ignore it because you prefer the controversy to hearing the other side of the story and argument.
I think that’s bad journalism. The Washington City Paper deserves better than you continuing to kick up the same tired arguments. Don’t you have anything more responsible to do there?
11:04 pm
Steve Klein:
i remember you! last time you were here you said Barry Bonds is pond scum because he admitted to using performance enhancing drugs and Lance Armstrong is Gandhi because he hasn’t admitted to using performance enhancing drugs!
Great to have you back, Steve! Because now you can listen to the Greg Lemond tape that is linked in the comments section, where you’ll hear people say that they heard Lance Armstrong admit to using performance enhancing drugs.
After you hear that tape, Steve, your opinion of either Barry Bonds or Lance Armstrong better change. It just better!
And I hope you’re with me in saying that Congress should either give up its steroid investigations of football and baseball or call Lance Armstrong in and get him to answer the same questions under oath. You are with me, Steve, aren’t you?
But thanks for playing the feud!
2:16 am
“And I hope you’re with me in saying that Congress should either give up its steroid investigations of football and baseball or call Lance Armstrong in and get him to answer the same questions under oath.”
What on earth has tho one to do with the other? There is wide spread doping in football, baseball and ice hockey. That should be dealt with.
Cycling is dealing with it, much to its own damage. The American belief in forgiveness and redemption should be pracitised and not just preached. Armstrong is trying to redeem himself through his work on cancer, and frankly that is a whole lot more important than humiliating him about the past where he raced against people as doped as he, in a sport that is incredibly hard and where the demands for TV spectacle force riders to greater extremes.
8:09 pm
Roger Clemens’ foundation helps so many people especially children. To say that because someone does good the bad should be overlooked is folly. The past is important so history doesn’t repeat itself. Lance Armstrong’s attorney lied about Mrs. Andreu - it was obvious. What does he have to say about the taped conversation about the woman who perjured herself to protect his client?
Go after the big cheat. The one using his illness to promote his own agenda.
12:33 pm
So now we have Frankie Andreu, Betsy Andreu and Stephanie McIlvain testifying under oath or later admitting that they heard Lance Armstrong tell his doctors, in a hospital room where they were all present, that he took performance-enhancing drugs. How many people do you need to corroborate the event? I think three is more than enough. They heard what they heard as innocent by-standers at his bedside. Lance Armstrong is a liar and a cheater, and he knows it. Unfortunately he is a hero in the public’s eye. But heroes have fallen from grace, as we have seen recently. So his time will come…with or without his lawyers attacking those who speak the truth. Be patient everyone…and pick up a copy of David Walsh’s “From Lance to Landis” in the meantime.
6:51 pm
The drugs use by Lance was before ‘96. The disclosure was to his cancer docs in Indiana.
Lemond is exceptionally jealous of LA and is motivated to enhance his own legacy by bringing Lance down. There were plenty of drugs in use when Greg was racing.
As to Landis, he did not use testosterone. The lab was shown to have butchered thee testing protocols. Read the testimony on the TrustBut blog. Floyd’s vindication comes down from the CAS this summer.
And, yes, cycling is cleaning up its mess. The rest of the sports world is about to come face to face with their problems at the Summer Olympics. It will be a fiasco. So many drugs in the food sources, everybody testing positive will have a ready excuse.
1:28 am
Hi, I’m Chest Rockwell, pornstar, and I know a fake performace when I see it. Pharmstrong was climbing mountains without even opening his mouth to breathe. Impossible.
Tim Herman OTOH is opening his mouth to suck on Pharmstrong’s muscle.
BTW, Herman is a bottom and submissive in Gay Porn.
Thanks,
Chest
1:37 am
The guy Pharmstrong, is a great performer. I didn’t know that he was a fan of the Brock Landers series and that he heard about my shaky relationship with Dirk now that I’ve renounced my former career. Anywho, he jetted out to SFV and steps right into a newly created role. WTF!
I will say Lance just put in an amazing performance in the last Brock Landers film. He is playing Chest Rockwell’s brother, who steals the girl.
For good endurance Lance took a 10 mg Cialis 2 hours before the shoot, then a 50mg Viagara 1 hour prior. He wanted some r Epo but we have a connection which could get him Cera.
After the shoot we understood why he needs the doping products. He had a 5 and a half hour erection that necessitated a trip to the ER. After patiently signing autographs in the waiting room, ER doctors drained his penis with a syringe; they took out about 4 vials of blood. Which Lance immediately reinfused so he could perform at a party later that night. He didn’t want to waste the packed cells and the Cera, not to mention the cialis. It lasts 36 hours and is a vastly superior doping product than viagra. He wore out 7 actresses and was going for 8 but the pain in his schwanz forced him to stop. He had heard about the exploits of Pascal Richard, and knew he could top them.
LA just blew my mind. I’m so bewildered I started my walkabout….You might not hear about me for a while. My advice to you is to let sleeping dogs lie.