City Desk

Chairman of the Bored

The Redskins official fan message board, extremeskins.com, has been a very fun read lately. Folks who hate everything Dan Snyder has done since Joe Gibbs fled are battling it out with folks who love everything done by the owner of the team, who happens to also be the owner of the board.

But not everybody's enjoying the banter. I got an email over the weekend from an "Eric Smith," a longtime extremeskins member who as of Saturday was banned from Snyder's message board while defending, sort of, a City Paper story I wrote about the owner and his Redskins employees shared ties to investments in Six Flags, the amusement park chain.

Specifically, Smith, while posting as "Shadowplay," was kicked off Snyder's site after insulting one of his and my insulters, a veteran moderator named Gary Mark Steven.

The beginning of the end of Smith's extremeskins membership came when Steven, who posts as "Om," had followed up one of Smith's posts in the thread about the City Paper column with some snark: "Yawn. Meet Dave McKenna's target audience," Steven posted.

Smith met Steven's snarkiness and raised him: "Yawn. Meet Daniel Snyder's pool cleaner," Smith rebutted.

A chuckler of a comeback, I'd say.

Alas, Smith's walking papers from Snyder's site came quickly after that was posted. Steven emailed Smith to say he had been booted off "indefinitely."

Steven, who in my recent email exchanges with him seems to be as whiny and humorless away from the message board as he is on it, is currently the most powerful moderator at extremeskins – his avatar caption describes him as "The President" of the site. He also freelances puff pieces for Snyder's main website, Redskins.com. Steven gets access to the press box for Skins games and to team hotels on the road through the team.

Yet, far as I can tell, Steven, who inserts smiley faces into his message-board posts at a creepy rate for a 47-year-old guy (if his bio information on the site is to be believed), has never fully disclosed to extremeskins members the extent of the privileges granted him by the team for his attacks on critics of Skins management, let alone his apparent status as an employee of Snyder's.

Even without the most basic disclosure, the uptick in insults members of the message board are now throwing Steven's way makes it seem like posters have sniffed out his conflicts of interest just from his attack-dog act.

Smith, for one. In his email to me, Smith said he called Steven "Snyder's pool cleaner" out of frustration with "the Snyder yes men who run the message board and effectively control the message if it's critical of the owner" and "the system of intimidation and bullying that the extremeskins staff uses to keep the dissension to a minimum."

Asked to respond to Smith's charges about Snyder's site and questions about the degree of his employment by the Redskins, Steven said via email that after reading my City Paper stories he regards me as being "completely unbound by any sense of objectivity, accountability or even a passing sense of honor" and declined.

Steven must really dislike me. His email didn't include a single smiley face.

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Comments

  1. #1

    Dave,

    Let's see, we finished up with your little email fishing expedition around 12:30 pm, and you posted this at 3:18. Not bad.

    Of course, if you'd taken just a *little* longer, perhaps you could have gotten a fact or two right. For that matter, if you'd taken the 5 minutes it would have required you to actually read for yourself the pertinent part of the thread from which your disgruntled former ES member friend plucked his self-serving version, you might have saved yourself this entire embarrassing episode.

    Tell you what. Rather than sniping away from the safety of your home blog, I hereby extend you a personal invitation to come on ES and talk to me, out in the open, for all to see. I'm thinking we should probably start by posting the entirety of the exchange you initiated this morning and go from there.

    What do you say? Got the "'nads" (borrowing that gem from your last bit of professional reportage) to engage the target of one of your latest rants without a safety net? Don't worry, I promise to make an exception to our strict long-standing policy of banning you simply for stating a dissenting opinion.

    Frankly, I think your readers, not to mention the ES membership you think so highly of, deserve to see the very best of Dave McKenna, uber-reporter, out in the open, going mano-a-mano with the latest object of his penetrating reporter's eye. Surely a man of your obvious intellect and training can expose a little old fanboy like me, no?

    We won't even charge you for the boost to your circulation.

    Just say the word and we'll set it up.

    Your humble prospective host,

    Mark "not Gary" Steven
    ES Staff

  2. #2

    Mr. Steven,

    Man, I thought you had mysteriously disappeared. I'm glad the gnomes have released you from whatever dark cave they were holding you in. I mean, I've been emailing you for DAYS and I've gotten no response.

    Let's look at your original post against Dave McKenna's article:

    {

    Those familiar with McKenna's history vis a vis the Redskins simply roll their eyes.

    Those new to Mr. McKenna's work, the following phrase should probably tell you all need to know about his professionalism and credibility as an objective observer:

    [Mr. McKenna's Quote]

    [/Mr. McKenna's Quote]

    Add to that chooses this trollspeak as justification for his position:

    [Mr. McKenna Quote from original article]

    [/Mr. McKenna Quote]

    }

    Not once do you try to discount Mr. McKenna's article with ACTUAL FACTS or SUBSTANCE. Instead your argument seems to be "this is Dave McKenna, he hates the Redskins, don't read his stuff".

    Also, as I stated in the actual thread. I was amazed at how quick it took for a moderator to inject his own "nothing to see here, move along people" opinion into the tread. I wouldn't have had an issue with your post if you had actually had taken the time to give a reason why Mr. McKenna's article was so off base, but you didn't. Several other posters in the thread basically echoed the same sentiments ("are you saying the article contains misinformation?") and wondered what you were objecting to. Of course then I hit you with the "snarky comment" and the next thing I knew I was hit with a seven day ban. If you remember, another user was threatened with a seven day ban in the thread as well by another moderator if he "didn't watch himself".

    Of course after I emailed you and accused you of being a lackey for the organization, I was then hit with an "indefinite" ban. So it stands to reason that if I had just kept my mouth shut, I would be returning to my favorite message board in a week.

    I don't speak for Dave, I don't know him personally, but it seems you're hoping to pull Mr. McKenna from his home turf to yours. We both know that you'll have plenty of followers at ES that will applaud you for trying to stick it to a writer with an "agenda" against the Redskins (if I had a dime for every butt kissing post that occurred after a mod posted....). So here's a thought: stop hiding behind the masses at ES and respond here. You're a decent writer, I give you a fighting chance.

    Here's hoping Snyder hires Spagnulo,

    Shadowplay

  3. #3

    Mark Steven:
    damn! got your name wrong. that's bad. sorry.

    as for our email exchange, well, that was boring the first time around, and i just read it over and it's even more boring the second time around, so i have no idea why you would want to burden anybody else with it. but, as penance for getting your name wrong here, i'll honor your request.

    sorry, readers, but, here is my entire email exchange with mark steven:

    subject: media request from the washington city paper
    From: davmckenna@aol.com
    To: om@extremeskins.com
    Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:37 pm

    Mark:
    dave mckenna from city paper here. i got an email from a guy named eric who you banned over the weekend from extremeskins, and he told me he told you he would tell me you banned him. just set a record for most pronouns in the shortest space. anyway, i read the thread that the banning took place in and loved it.

    you hate me! you really hate me! good stuff...

    but the reason i'm bothering you is i'll probably write about the redskins site again. and again. and again. so i might as well go to the mountaintop (no offense to art mills, but he's the ex mountaintop as far as i can tell)...the banning of the poster named eric comes after some extremeskins folks came to the city paper website recently after i wrote something about your site and they insinuated, for the lack of a stronger word, that stifling of dissent has no place on the redskins message board.

    so, to those like eric who say they were banned for not agreeing with the moderators, what do you say? has anybody ever been banned for being too effusive in his or her praise for the redskins?

    also, it is my recollection, after talking to art mills a couple years ago, that extremeskins moderators do get paid to write for the redskins site. is that still the case? is it on a per-piece basis or a contract? how much are writers on the site paid if per piece? is the team funding trips to games for those writing for the site?

    the reason i ask is, i haven't seen any compensation from the redskins mentioned in your posts to readers, and since the subject of what agenda or bias this writer or that writer has on a topic is in heavy rotation on your site, money from sources related to the topic is usually the first think folks wanna know about. should that be disclosed by those paid by the team, or do you think visitors to the website just assume that you're paid by the team and so such disclosure wouldn't serve a purpose?

    and while i got you: i see you're one of the founding members of the site. how many hours a day are you on the site? seven days a week?

    where's the time come from? are you retired and wealthy? in any case, thanks for your time and be well...dave mckenna, dc

    From: Mark Steven
    To: davmckenna@aol.com
    Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 8:43 am
    Re: media request from the washington city paper

    Dave,

    Quick answers to your questions, to the extent I am able:

    With all due respect, you flatter yourself. I don’t “hate” you; I don’t hate people I have never met below the level of the bin Laden, Pol Pot and Paulie Shore’s of the world. What I do take exception to is what I have
    long considered your use of a byline to give a veneer of legitimacy to what I believe to be crass, agenda-driven polemics.

    Based on your pieces I’ve seen dealing with the Redskins and ES, you strike me as a writer completely unbound by any sense of objectivity, accountability or even a passing sense of honor. In short, I consider your
    motivations suspect. I invite you to prove me wrong.

    As to the banning of any individual member, or the suggestion ES filters content based on negative opinions ... if you have spent any time at all on the site, and availed yourself of even a modest sampling of the tenor
    of the opinions expressed, you would know that the idea “dissent” is stifled is laughable. That you would ask such a question suggests to me you have not done any actual research into the subject. I invite you to.

    If you prefer, instead, to simply take the word of disgruntled members who have run afoul of the long-standing message board rules that every ES
    member agrees to abide by upon registration, that is your call. We will not, however, discuss the specifics of any given administrative action or status of any individual member’s account with anyone outside of the
    member himself, the ES staff and the Redskins organization. I trust you can appreciate that position.

    I am also not going to discuss the particulars of the contract between ES and the Redskins, or personal questions about my employment, financial status or allotment of my personal time. Given my previously noted
    concerns about your motivations, I do not feel it is in my or the site’s interests to do so. Feel free to interpret that as you will.

    Thanks for the note. Perhaps some day we will meet in person and both walk away with a better appreciation--or at least understanding--of the other.

    Yours,

    Mark Steven
    ES Staff

    From: davmckenna@aol.com
    To: om@extremeskins.com
    Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 9:04 am
    Re: media request from the washington city paper

    did you really type "...a veneer of legitimacy to what I believe to be crass, agenda-driven polemics."? wow.

    your email is as angry and cowardly and self-unaware as the stuff that guy OM on the board writes. i figured "OM"'s silliness was a pose. now i see "mark steven" is just as silly. sad....be well...dm

    From: Mark Steven
    To: davmckenna@aol.com
    Sent: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 9:24 am
    Subject: Re: media request from the washington city paper

    Mr. McKenna,

    Thank you for the measured, considered reponse.

    I'll look forward to the expected fair treatment in your next great expository piece.

    To your health.

    M.

    PS. Sorry about the polysyllabic thing. I know it challenges some.

    From: davmckenna@aol.com
    To: om@extremeskins.com
    Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:26 pm
    Re: media request from the washington city paper

    damn, you're silly.

    There it is, Mark Steven. Not quite as gripping as Napoleon's letters to Josephine, eh? please post it wherever you want.

    as for your challenge for me to come to extremeskins for some sort of mano-a-mano contest, i really don't understand what you're talking about. was there really something not said about me or my stories during that exchange or in that thread on your site about city paper where you banned the guy for calling you "Snyder's Pool Cleaner" or in this post you just wrote here?

    i asked all the questions i wanted, and you didn't answer 'em. and no matter what forum we're in, i don't think i'd come up with anything more accurate to describe your posts on the redskins site than "silly" and "humorless" -- you spend your life on a message board and don't even get a chuckle out of "'nads"? -- and i already used 'em both.

    but, again, sorry for getting your name wrong. that's bad. i'll try to use that blog line thingee to correct it.

  4. #4

    Let me get this straight. $nyder owns a message board where fans can freely praise or bash him. That's pretty cool. Are there any other owners that do that?

    Dave, after looking things over, it seems like you'd actually get the attention you seek by taking this Gary/Mark/Steve whichever guy up on his offer. Looks like you had what, six responses to the blog entry in question here whereas on the team board there were over a hundred. Dude, it's a no brainer. Go there & I bet you'd be the internet drama rock star you so desperately seek to be. Or maybe you just don't have the, what's the word of the day tossed around here, oh yeah, nads, to do so.

  5. #5

    "The Truth Says:
    Feb. 6, 2008, at 8:41 am
    Let me get this straight. $nyder owns a message board where fans can freely praise or bash him. That’s pretty cool. Are there any other owners that do that?

    Dave, after looking things over, it seems like you’d actually get the attention you seek by taking this Gary/Mark/Steve whichever guy up on his offer. Looks like you had what, six responses to the blog entry in question here whereas on the team board there were over a hundred. Dude, it’s a no brainer. Go there & I bet you’d be the internet drama rock star you so desperately seek to be. Or maybe you just don’t have the, what’s the word of the day tossed around here, oh yeah, nads, to do so."

    PWNED

  6. #6

    Dave,

    Thanks for posting the email exchange. While I doubt many people will actually read it here, I'm satisfied that anyone who does, and takes the time to read it and the thread in question, will at least understand that your version is ... how to put it ... "creative."

    The offer stands, by the way. If you're ever interested in learning a bit about how large message boards work, feel free to leave the safety of this obscure little place and come talk to people out in the world. You can expense it as "field research."

    I'm not surprised you've shrunk from a direct personal challenge, after you've thrown the first sucker punch, but don't worry, I'll leave you alone if you choose to visit ES. But why deprive the other 70,000 or so members of the site the opportunity to see what you're all about for themselves? You might even pick up a reader or two.

    Come on, Dave. Life if short. In the immortal words of Andy Dufresne, "get busy living, or get busy dying."

    Meanwhile, here's to your health and continued pursuit of whatever the it is you're looking for here in this backwater corner of the web.

    Mark Steven

    PS. By the way, Mr. Smith? All of your various emails to me are in the record, as well. Feel free to post them here as well. At least Dave had the nads to do *that*.

  7. #7

    Mark Steven:
    "I’m not surprised you’ve shrunk from a direct personal challenge, after you’ve thrown the first sucker punch."

    how bizarre are you? you spend the weekend trashing me in that thread on dan snyder's message board while hiding behind this name OM, and when i come to you, Mark Steven, directly and, using my real name, ask you to answer questions as a real person about a guy who was banned and about why you hide your employment by Dan Snyder, you refuse to respond, citing rules that you made up and paranoia.

    so who's throwing sucker punches and who's shrinking away?

    again, i don't understand this weirdo challenge of yours, Mark Steven. what the hell are you envisioning? good god, man, you spend hour after hour, day after day, using a pseudonym while exchanging smiley faces with a small bunch of fellow middle-aged message board obsessives, and now you're some kind of tough guy? you don't even have the guts to admit you're an employee of dan snyder's.

    are you embarrassed by that or afraid it will expose you as a fraud to those on the receiving end of all your smiley faces?

    so stop with the phony challenges and say what you have to say -- say SOMETHING -- or just shut up. everything i have to say has been said directly to you in those emails or in my story. as i told you, uh, mano-a-mano, from reading extremeskins and seeing all those smiley faces, i thought your imaginary friend OM was silly and creepy, and now i think Mark Steven is silly and creepy, too.

    what part of silly and creepy don't you understand?

    but thanks for playing the feud!

  8. #8

    I know I asked you this on another section of this black hole of the web, where you said I was a little to late or something like that. Truth is, I'm a little like you in being to lazy to go back and the actual facts right. :) Smiley face for you Davie since you seem to be throwing the equivalent of an internet temper tantrum because no one is giving you one. :)

  9. #9

    The Truth:
    you wrote "I know I asked you this on another section of this black hole of the web..." and then nodded off, probably while reading that email exchange that Mark Steven finds so enthralling.

    give it another shot, Mr. Truth: asked me what? i'm here to please. ask away.

    and i can't thank you enough for posting those smiley faces here, which to these eyes look exactly like the ones that Mark Steven and I assume you send each other all day over at Dan Snyder's message board. i don't know if they're worth 1,000 words, but they're definitely worth two: "silly" and "creepy"...

    but before i let you go get that ADD problem worked on: continued thanks to you and yours at extremeskins for playing the feud!

  10. #10

    Oops. Seems part of my reply was cut off. Maybe the black hole gobbled it up. So here's what I asked you elsewhere.

    How much do you pay Richard Dawson for using his catch phrase?

  11. #11

    Dave,

    The more you write, the clearer your colors become. Forget the invitation, you've got nothing I or ES need. We have more than enough trolls as is.

    Peace.

    Mark

  12. #12

    Aren't those nearly the exact words Snyder and Cerrato used to dismiss Gregg Williams?

  13. #13

    They dismissed him by saying 'Nads'? Or did they tell him 'thanks for playing the feud'?

  14. #14

    A message board fight? And the 47-year-old mod who's so worldly that he's seen it all and done it all and doesn't have to deign to have an actual conversation with someone who's asking direct, pointed questions without hiding behind a username? Rich.

    You could just say, "I'm not at all secure with the position I have in life, being 47 and getting into it with vapid sports fans on a goddamn message board, so I'm not going to answer your questions because then I'd be forced to say out loud that which I won't admit to myself," and that would have been preferable to the faux-intellectual "Given my previously noted concerns about your motivations, I do not feel it is in my or the site’s interests to do so."

    "Feel free to interpret that as you will."

    I think we all have, thanks.

    Now, what's for lunch?

  15. #15

    Question, Theo. Are you familiar with the history behind any of this, or just taking a side based on what Dave wrote in this out-of-left field smear piece, based entirely on the representations of a disgruntled former message board member?

    Without context, any reference to anyone's motivations or my approach to dealing with this ridiculous exercise are meaningless.

    If you're interested in talking about this, let me know and we'll take it off this page and talk privately. If you're just here backing Dave for the sake of backing Dave, don't bother.

    By the way, I feel I should probably ask, since it seems important to some: how old are you?

  16. #16

    All you sill people are arguing about a message board when the real message is being ignored! Sean Taylor died for your sins..repent!

  17. #17

    DTC is committed to sucking throat yogurts all day to prove this point. ART is the biggest(truly the fattest)tard on the site...long live DTC

  18. #18

    Why would anyone want to be a part of a message board where if you insult the owner of the team, you get banned? Is anyone surprised by this? It's Daniel Snyder. He's part of the trinity of over spending, pea brained owners with Jerry Jones and Al Davis.

    Create an independent board and then feel free to post the truth about the team without Snyder's flunkies banning you when you don't tow the company line.

    BoldRuler

  19. #19

    Bold Ruler,

    Like Dave and some others posting here, you clearly haven't visited the board before weighing in. If we banned people for insulting the owner, there'd probably be about 50 people left, not 75,000. Feel free to swing by and insult him yourself. Always room for another objective opinion.

  20. #20
  21. #21

    Not in a happy, joy way either.

  22. #22

    The DTC is committed to caressing and lubing Art's Cinnamon ring

    I'm turning Japanese, i think i'm turing japanese...ithinkso....

  23. #23

    Mark Steven -

    Please clean out your inbox at Extreme Skins. You're fired.

    Yours,

    Mr. Snyder

    ** Before you leave, and I can't believe I have to ask you this AGAIN, but please return Clinton Portis's game-worn jockstrap to the training room before you leave Redskins Park. As we discussed, your constant sniffing of it creeped everyone out. Oh, and good luck.

  24. #24

    Heh,

    Gotta love ES! Keep it up guys!

    See if you can't get Snyder to hire Don Shula out of retirement next!

    Oh, yeah, BTW- The Giants won the Superbowl!

  25. #25

    ive never set foot on the extremeskins site from the minute i saw "official" on it. Who hangs out on "official" internet sites?? That said, based on these so awesome comments, it is clear that Mark Steven = a real p*nis!

  26. #26

    I'm curious, what was the ES rule/guideline that the Shadowplay guy broke that got him banned?

  27. #27

    Mark you should just own up to any conflict of interests.

  28. #28

    New to the blog.

    Ahem.

    The Redskins board is Super Lame.

  29. #29

    Wow - most ES "readers" probably don't venture off those inbred parts of the Internet, but I'd say their leader Mark Steven has been pretty well exposed by this little exchange here.

    Memo to Mark Steven - You can't take a paycheck from a person whose team you cover and then go off on "polemics" (wow, polysyllabic words ARE fun!) and sermons about writers with an "agenda." Unless you're going for irony, which I'm guessing you're not.

  30. #30

    I to am puzzled by ES? I tried signing up 3-4 times in my life and you need to get a confirmation email, never happened. Thus I must continue to enjoy my life on other skins sites, RI is my favorite because the Post's staff is chill about things like decent.

  31. #31

    Why bite the hand that feeds you Dave? He's the only one making you relevant.

  32. #32

    I cannot believe that someone has the audacity to publicly criticize Mr. Snyder. The man is nothing short of a Saint. He had done so much for so many and was the catalyst behind bringing Coach Joe Gibbs, a living legend, back to Washington. While Coach Gibbs ultimately decided that he was going to retire, his guidance, leadership and the way he handled the tragic death of #21 Sean Taylor (RIP, friend) was nothing short of the Lord's work.

    Coach Gibbs is a man who called back-to-back timeouts against Buffalo, even though he new he couldn't, because he wanted all the focus to be on him and not his team in the wake of Sean Taylor passing. He put all the focus, all the blame, squarely on his bountiful shoulders and took the punishment. And after that, what happened? The Washington Redskins didn't lose. They made the playoffs and had a phenomenal, tremendous season.

    And all that was because of Coach Gibbs. And Mr. Snyder hired Coach Gibbs. So by that logic, Mr. Snyder deserves our respect and our admiration. And the people who put in his charger of his message board, and these are great men, they also deserve our respect because Mr. Snyder trusts them. He wouldn't hire someone incompetent or incapable of doing the job. He is a business man, a smart business man.

    So Dave McKenna, please know what you are talking about before you attack a site like ExtremeSkins. That place connects people with a common love and passion for Washington Redskins football. We are bigger than you, your paper and anything you might write. We are ExtremeSkins and we are a family. I suggest you know that before attack on of your leader, let alone our leader, next time.

    Good day.

  33. #33

    hahafunnyhaha- are you being serious or deliberately retarded? I'm asking for real. I honestly can't tell if that supposed to be tongue in cheek, or if you're borderline retarded. Maybe if someone from extremeskins can help me- I don't want to make fun of a mentally challenged individual. Is this person your little low-IQ mascot or something?

  34. #34

    Mr. Mark Steven,

    After reading this email exchange and the entire exchange on the ES board, it is still unclear why you banned "Mr. Smith". Please answer that here, since it seems you are still reading these posts. If you don't answer this questions, why would anyone believe you don't have something to hide?

    -Bob

  35. #35

    seriously, hahafunnyhaha, are you for real? I hope that was a joke

  36. #36

    Mods on Extremeskins and Mark on this blog referenced several times the ES membership of 70-75k when in reality they do not get that amount of daily traffic. They do have that many signed up, but over 75% of them have 0 posts or just a couple of posts. Their daily traffic is about 2500 people a day in my estimation. Although we will never know the truth since the board administrators turned off the option of the forum that shows all users who have logged in each day

  37. #37

    "Blaise" and Mr. Stevenson:

    I'm sorry if I offended you, but I just feel that strongly and that emotionally about my Washington Redskins, my family at ExtremeSkins, Coach Gibbs, Mr. Snyder, #21 Sean Taylor and our leaders like Om, Bubba and Art. I'm sorry. Guilty as charged, but that's just the way I feel.

    It's different for us. We just care more. We just have that kind of a connection, that kind of a relationship with our football team. It's just the way it is. It's special and it means more. I'm getting emotional just writing this, thinking of Washington Redskins football. I was born to bleed Burgundy and Gold, and God help me, I do.

  38. #38

    Well what do we have here, if it isn't Gary McKenna and his little disgruntled henchmen. What an ugly little parade.

    To Dave McKenna:

    Your meaning in life has been fulfulled. You may now go in peace. Are you satisfied now?

    To "Eric Smith"

    You couldn't have just taken a 1 week ban. No, you had to cry to Dave McKenna because Mark Steven hurt your ego. Unfortunately, it's made you look like more of a bitch, for lack of a better word. And there's plenty of your kind of ES. People who don't really add much to the conversation, who are there simply to bitch....and bitch....and bitch.

    To Theo Mitchell

    Not much I can say to you, other than the fact that you sound like a pompous prick! Success!

  39. #39

    Dear Mark:

    No, I had no idea who on earth Dave McKenna was prior to this afternoon. I have only a vague idea now. So, no, I'm not just taking his side, nor do I really care about any history you two have.

    But it's incredibly easy to see - because I see it a lot online - that it's a case of another headstrong and egomaniac internet moderator acting out on his frustrations at being inadequate in the rest of his life and carrying out Napoleonic agendas.

    You moderate a freaking football message board. Badly and unfairly, by the sound of it. And all I really need to know about you was contained in what you wrote to whoever this McKenna guy is. You trying to pass yourself off as some beacon of light and truth would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. Get outside in the sun.

    And, Paul, I might very well be a pompous prick. But I can live with that. Because I'm not acting out a martinet complex online like Mark Steven.

  40. #40

    Dave, what is it with you and being a jackass towards ES Mods, anyway?

  41. The Mayor of Fed Ex Field
    #41

    Dave:

    I have been banned from Extremeskins for almost 5 years now.

    I love a good Extremeskins bashing. I actually read this article to join you.

    But then I looked at the facts. And it was quite obvious about 4 minutes into my fact finding search, that you are a certified idiot, and are seeking attention to your garbage website.

    I havent even heard of this paper. Is it a paper? Or just a misleading name for your webiste.

    All I know about the Washington City Paper is McAfee says "When we signed up here, this site posted our e-mail address on the Web, making it available to spammers."

    If your goal was to drive up your webiste traffic, you suceeded.

    If you goal was to prove a point, you failed. I think even you now know it.

    Extremeskins has never banned a member for being critical of the owner. I personally am Pro-Snyder and think that they allow too much crticism of him.

    With threads titled "Snyder is a meddeling owner" and "Snyder needs a public speaking course"on the first page, your entire theory and basis of this article are false.

    How would a messageboard that didnt let fans of the team crtique Snyder, yet allow the topics I posted above stay active?

    Maybe if you took a few minutes to actually view the website that was the entire subject of your story, you wouldnt look so stupid.

    It's a shame too Dave. I was pumped up ready to help you bash Extremeskins.

    But instead I find myself standing right next to them laughing at you.

    But good job. Your plan worked. This is certainly the most traffic your column, let alone entire website has ever gotten.

    You just got probably 20,000 thousand hits from the website your attacking, yet by your own admission havent even visted once.

    I wish Om would posted how much money he made, only to have you know, he probably makes more money than you.

    I will never visit this website again and I already forgot your name.

    Signed,

    The Mayor of Fed Ex Field

    PS: The former ES member that "alerted" you of all this, buddy, you got problems.

  42. #42

    Well sounds like someones getting the wrath of a blog site with 1.5 billion in funding.

  43. #43

    A good moderator would simply ensure that the rules of the board are adhered to and keep their opinions to themselves. The ES moderators -- whether intentional or not -- often times influence the discussions on the board...And typically those opinions tend to be pro-Redskins Management. Ironically, these Redskins-employed pseudo-reporters/journalists like Larry Michael and Mark Steven end up doing more damage than good to Dan Snyder's reputation, since most see them as shills for Snyder. As a wise man once told me, never trust a man with two first names!

  44. #44

    WTF? Mark Stevens is clearly a giant douchebag along with several other "Mods" on the extreme skins site. I don't go on here because I want information and not someone's opinion. And once it was bought by Snyder it lost 1000% percent of it's credibility. Isn't there other Skins fan forums that are neutral that you ES people can go on?

  45. #45

    Hi Paul,

    Thank you for the endearing words. I'll sleep better at night knowing that you've come into my life.

    If you had taken the time to READ the comments above, I tried to lay out my side of the story. I didn't get banned for emailing Mr. McKenna. I was banned temporarily for a 'snarky' comment and then indefinitely after I emailed the Mr. Steven directly and accused him of being a 'complete stooge' who IMHO couldn't handle the fact that I came back at him with a thoughtful (I'm sure some would say unthoughtful) response. So in essence, I think somebody's ego was hurt - I'm just not sure it was mine.

    And while I love the debate, I think it would be terrific if some of the personal attacks against Mr. Steven would cease. I don't regret what I said, but I'm sorry it's lead to some of the insults I've read.

    Any news on Spagnulo yet?

    Sincerely,

    Shadowplay

  46. #46

    WOWSESRS,

    "Clearly Mark Steven is a giant douchebag"

    you seem like one of those guys who doesn't really have the brain capacity to understand what's going on, so you just point a finger for the sake of it. Good luck with the blankets.

  47. #47

    only one way to settle this thing. Monkey Knife Fight.

  48. #48

    Wow, just wow.
    are we really witnessing a internet battle between a interweb paper a football message board?

    It's sad but it's sooooooooo damn funny.
    The Om and Dave show coming to NBC, it'd beat American Gladiators BROTHER!!!!!!!!

    You make me smile......... :)

  49. #49

    This post was published on February 5th.

    2.

    5.

    2+5 = 7.

    Multiply that by the number of intelligent posters at Extremeskins (3).

    7x3 = 21.

    *Solemn head bow*

  50. #50

    I'm pretty sure Dave, or any of his cronies for that matter, have never been a member or posted on ES. I've said some pretty unpopular things on that message board, such as a great "thank you" to all of the Redskins fans rooting for the Giants in the Super Bowl. Never did I once feel like I would be banned. I've seen lots of criticism toward Dan Snyder and no censorship whatsoever, I have no idea what it is that your big beef is. I can understand you don't like Snyder, neither do I... Big freaking whoop. Matter of fact, I have no idea why I'm even posting here, I'll probably never be back. I'll just read the real newspapers in town, Washington Post and Times. Sorry for wasting your webspace.

    Last question... You are a Cowboys fan right?

  51. #51

    The argument as I see it.:
    Eric supports an opinion written by Dave McKenna in a Washington paper.

    OM (Mark Steven) disagrees with said opinion, and attacks Eric the poster.

    Eric attacks back by calling OM, basically, a tool for Board Owner – one “Daniel Snyder”

    OM bans Eric because he attacked another poster (OM)

    Eric therefore tells Dave McKenna of the ban, so McKenna writes a column in the Washington Paper about ES.

    I am a moderator on another board and this is only my view, so you can take it for what it is worth,

    On my board the moderator (OM) would immediately be banned for a week for attacking the poster in the first place. This is just not done.

    Eric would have received an email warning that it was not appropriate to attack back, but he should have emailed a response back to another moderator about the attack.

    But now that this has come out, McKenna does ask some legitimate questions of Mark Steven. Mark has an obligation to explain why he was not banned for attacking Eric in the first place. Then this obligation extends to explain to the Washington paper and the members of Extreme Skins, exactly what his relationship is with Daniel Snyder and the Washington Redskins front office. It would be very helpful to the readership and posters of both to know this information along with his responsibilities at ES and the hours he spends controlling the ES Board.

    Mark needs to quit his excessive “arguing in a circle” tactic and answer the questions first asked of him. When, and only when, he gives us all a truthful answer, then he has a right to ask about Dave McKenna’s agenda, and expect truthful answers from him.

    To both Dave and Mark: Do not try to lead this elsewhere with other arguments and questions. Let the readers know the answers to the above first, then you can move on to other topics.

  52. #52

    The accusations in this paragraph are completely false, and you should know it, Dave:

    Smith, for one. In his email to me, Smith said he called Steven “Snyder’s pool cleaner” out of frustration with “the Snyder yes men who run the message board and effectively control the message if it’s critical of the owner” and “the system of intimidation and bullying that the extremeskins staff uses to keep the dissension to a minimum.”

    The Mods at ES have a posted policy warning against unfounded charges of censorship, or challenges to their integrity (such as false accusations of banning people because of their anti-team or anti-Snyder opinions). They simply do not ban people because of their opinions. And it's irresponsible to suggest otherwise by quoting Smith, above, as if it's a plausible argument.

    One might plausibly think the Mods are unduly prickly about having their integrity insulted (I largely disagree, though I could see how a reasonable person without much background might think so). The thing is, that's not a story, because, for one thing, it has nothing to do with Snyder, it turns on the personality of the Mods both before and after the merger with Redskins.com. Snyder and his henchmen stifling dissent is a story. But a false one.

  53. #53

    I am an ES member. For the past 3 years the only reason I log onto the site is for the breaking news section, Bubba and co. keep that pretty up to date with all skins articles across the net. I was a hardcore ES user before the "official" BS. It was a good board. You could talk openly and angrily about redskins football, politics, hot chicks, whatever. It was after the "official" came in that the board went to hell. ES is the message board that got me in to politics, so I can tell you that it used to be full of great discussion.

    I was banned temprarily for telling a particularly hateful poster that I wouldn't mind seeing the next terrorist attack happen on his home. The temporary ban was understandable, but still I realized that I was in a censored arena. The staff of ES have been lured in by the free lobster in the press box. They got to meet Clinton Portis and they then gave up all of their sovereignty. I watched it happen in textual form.

  54. #54

    Mark Steven is a hypocrite to his own rules. I have not read the exchange on ES over him and Eric...So how do I come to that conclusion?...Simple. By his first post here. He called out Dave to come to ES and stage a little battle, which if I read his forum rules correctly violates rule #17 "thou shalt not create call out threads" So Mark, what is your ban for that? or do you get off on a technicality because your challenge was not accepted?

  55. #55

    That is one of the funniest articles I've ever read. :) :) Those were for you, tool bag OM!

    I was also banned from extremeskins, without explanation, for making critical comments about the team and specifically, Dan Snyder.

    It's obvious what Snyder and his "pool boys" (so funny) are doing... they are trying to brain wash us like they do in communist countries. And if we don't listen to their commands, they take away our most basic right as Americans... freedom of speech.

    My only hope in this world is for Dan Snyder and his pool boys, like this tool OM, to live short, painful lives and remember that we don't live in Nazi Germany.

  56. #56

    You are all a part of the same hypocrisy. The fact that there is this much drama...and this much debate...over web forum politics...is hilarious.

    It's a web forum. All web forums are laced with donkeys and donkey related statements. If you get banned - don't cry. If you bash the owner while on his site - who cares? It's a web forum. If you are the admin...and ban somebody - it is your right. If you are an admin...and abuse your power - it is your right and move forward with the impression that you might get called out.

    This...is a show, and this....is Troy Fakeman, loyal ES member.

  57. #57

    gang:

    sports

    doesn't

    matter

    this

    much

  58. #58

    romberjo, did you seriously write:

    "The Mods at ES have a posted policy warning against unfounded charges of censorship, or challenges to their integrity (such as false accusations of banning people because of their anti-team or anti-Snyder opinions). They simply do not ban people because of their opinions."

    and not intend it as a joke? That was supposed to be a defense? The Mods at ES have a policy of preventing people from talking if they claim that the mods are preventing people from talking? OOOOh, I get it, the only opinion the mods suppress is the opinion that they suppress opinions. Clearly a logical policy.

  59. #59
  60. #60

    Laughing my ass off at Ricky Bobby's statement: I was banned and I don't know why!!!! Doesn't get much less mature than that. Either you know what you did and are just playing the fool, or are really just to dumb to understand your mistake. I'll go with the latter.

    Smarten up a bit, it'll do you some good. Brainwashing? Communists? Nazis? Are you serious? We're talking about a goddamn message board here. Not a country. Or maybe you think the comparison is fair because ES meant that much to you? You fail.

  61. #61

    WOW! You mean to tell me that Spagnulo didn't come to the Redskins? HOW CAN THAT BE? I mean, Dan Snyder is a great owner! He'll do whatever it takes to win! Doesn't he want to work with an organization that's committing to winning?

    This is just a paraphrase of some of the more idiotic posts going on over at ES right now. People can't believe that Spagnulo didn't take the job and are actually defending pound for pound the worst owner in the NFL. People are getting attacked for trying to put this on Snyder. Why would a Super Bowl winning defensive coordinator want to come to a team where the meat of his coaching staff has been picked by two complete clowns who HAVE NEVER COACHED PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL MUCH LET ALONE PLAYED IT? Completely unbelievable. How can you not believe that the choice of having to work with two morons , Snyder and Cerrato had no influence in his decision making? Sorry Danny, maybe you'll learn this time that you can't fix everything with money.

    I wanted Spagnulo to be the coach because I believe the next coach should be a young, HUNGRY, coordinator. Instead we'll likely now get a retread who's here for the cash. So it's not enough that we're getting has been free agents now who only care about the money, now we're applying the same approach to our head coaches.

    The mods will now attempt to mock those that see this as anything less than a humiliating experience. You'll hear them say stuff like "oh, stop whining" or "the world is ending *roll eyes*" or "enough with the drama". They exhibit some amazing optimism in the face of debacles. It happens all the time. We'll hear about how we have to have patience and "the process" is just playing out. Meanwhile, there's only one team that doesn't have a coach and that's the Washington Redskins.

    But hey, it's ok. We have an owner who wants to WIN. We've got a VP/GM/racquetball partner who has a plan. GUYS! He's GOT a plan! Don't WORRY! I'm sure we'll be able to buy wildcard t-shirts next year as well!

  62. #62

    I would like to offer Mr "Smith" an invite to Redskins insider on the posts website. We embrace people of all opinions.

  63. #63

    This is so fucking unnecessary.

  64. #64

    EXTREMESKINS is a joke. The moderators are a bunch of Snyder sychophants who sold out to Danny Boy and do in fact ban people who are critical of the little twerp. But why should the message board be any different from the paranoid manner in which Snyder and the team deal with the public generally?

  65. #65

    Errr, still wonderring if the "Moderators" are on Dan Snyder's payroll.

    Not sure why they can't just answer that question.

    Do you receive any form of compensation?

    YES or NO?

  66. #66

    THEHOGS.NET is a better site anyway.

  67. #67

    1972,
    I agree TheHogs is also a solid fan site. I never hear about them censuring anyone.

  68. #68

    Snapshot:

    People are now using this POS commentary about a POS article about a whiny POS who got banned from a POS message board by some POS moderator looking to get some free advertising for their OWN POS message boards to generate enough traffic so they too can someday be the subject of a POS article about some future POS who gets banned from THEIR POS message board and whines to some POS writer.

    Is this a great country or what?

  69. #69

    Are you guys still leaving your porch lights on for Sean Taylor?

  70. #70

    I can't believe all of this stuff. I am a member of extremeskins and I do believe that there is a level of almost facism there. Some of the fans are totally bootlickers for the Redskins FO. They can do no wrong and they are infallible. To me, you can still support the team without having to support Mr. Snyder's frivolous trips to hire coaches. I love the redskins and I love the team, but it is awfully hard to defend an owner of a team who has done things in the most unconventional way.

    The Redskins are quickly becoming like the Raiders in that we will not be able to draw a big named candidate any more because of how the current power structure is. It is one thing for the owner to acquire players, but it is quite another thing to hire the coaching staff. Why would a coach want to come into a situation like that? I believe that is why Spagnoulo isn't here and I thinkt that we are left to deal with Fassel now. If there is no healthy discussion on the messageboard, then it will never truly be something organic and free.

  71. #71

    Quote from hahafunnyhaha: "It’s different for us. We just care more. We just have that kind of a connection, that kind of a relationship with our football team. It’s just the way it is. It’s special and it means more. I’m getting emotional just writing this, thinking of Washington Redskins football. I was born to bleed Burgundy and Gold, and God help me, I do."

    You care more? Really? Than who? Fans who don't approve of Snyder? Since when is acquiescence caring?

    You say you were born to bleed burgundy and gold, and god willing, you will.

  72. #72

    Mr. Stevens is nothing more than a board dictator who bans people he doesn't like or calls his BS out in public. He "suddenly" has to resort to PM's when this happens. What a tool!! I would like NOTHING more than to have a chat with him in person...

  73. #73

    Bomb,

    Isn't it obvious? If you want to find him, he's over at Snyder's pool!

  74. DC United better than Deadskins
    #74

    Dan Snyder, meet George W. Bush. You've got some things in common.

  75. #75

    Banned individual, yeah, it's pretty pathetic when the ES Board takes on the same personality as the front office!! What else do you expect when it comes to Snyder I guess...

  76. #76

    Wow.

    I'm one of the evil bastard mods so many of you are gutting here. Lets count my evil ways - I've given tickets away to countless members so they could attend games, given copies of countless Redskins games to members, shipped them on my own dime, hundreds of times so people could enjoy some of our old glory.

    I have no axe to grind with Dave McKenna here - but you're just wrong Dave. Mark is one of the nicest guys I've ever known. You'd love him if you had the good fortune to meet him. And he's one of the fairest guys I've been lucky enough to call a friend. The guy who you've 'taken up the banner' for here is probably a good guy - but he's also violated board rules (which honestly, aren't that hard to follow - the vast majority of members never are engaged by a 'mod') repeatedly. I know. I looked up his posting history.

    And the whole schtick about the extremeskins staff being shills and apologists for Snyder - its really a crock. Look up my posting history on extremeskins. Join and do a search. You'll see me calling for his head and mocking the joke that has been this coaching search - repeatedly. You'll also see me criticize the management of the site since the Redskins made a deal with us. I wish we'd stayed independent, but only because the Redskins ignore our board - the idea that they'd try to shape our actions there is ludicrous. They don't even know we're alive.

    I've learned one thing about the 'media' during our little adventure with the Washington Redskins. If you guys can't find a story, you just make the **** up as you go. I'll tell you another secret - the guys you're mocking here - they're smarter than you. Trust me. We even have the degrees to prove it. Plus, you make more spelling errors. Ain't the truth a bitch?

    John Jeffries
    'Tarhog'
    Extremeskins.com Staff Member

  77. #77

    Tarhog...how many "FREE" tickets were given to you for doing what your "Daddy" tells you to? Your site is a JOKE!! You pick favorites and ban or "call-out"(which according to the rules you're not suppose to do) people who calls your bull****!! Don't give us none of this posting history crap either...there are sooooooo many people who get passes compared to others it's down-right pathetic!! Politics are a bitch yes, but that doesn't mean the staff has be one too...and that's the truth.

  78. #78

    I've never gotten anything from the team, save the chance to 'cover' some games from a fan's perspective. In fact, I've spent a lot of my own money doing it. I'm not going to waste my time arguing - some of us know the facts - you clearly aren't interested in the truth.

    Funny thing is, you and others spew hostility and demand someone show up here and be accountable for what actually has gone on. But when someone actually does, you attack and smear - doesn't matter if I'm telling the truth.

    Its pretty obvious - you and some of the others here have run into trouble on the site because we hold members to a higher standard than most sites. We did that before Dan Snyder ever came calling, and we still do. THATS the problem. Because if you lack the discipline to be civil and respectfully get along with others who may have differing viewpoints, you don't last long on the board. Thats the source of all the vitriole, not the horrible moderators.

    Grow up.

  79. #79

    Hold members to a higher standard? Bull****!! Grow up?You guys act like whiney little 3rd graders when someone calls you out. Or you come up with some BS reason to ban someone...which again, is just plain pathetic. You can hold it to a higher standard all you want to cover up the fact you have your favorites and certain "opinions" will not be tolerated. It is what it is...

  80. #80

    You apparently didn't make the cut. And yeah - grow up.

  81. #81

    I'm your Huckleberry...

  82. #82

    Tarhog,

    I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt in your earlier post....at least I think that's what you were doing.

    But let's be honest, the rules of ES are vague which intentionally leaves interpretation open to the moderator. I'm not sure that's different than any other message board but it's in the way that those "violations" are handled that I think makes ES unique. Om banned me for coming back at him tit for tat and he had to show the crowd who's the boss. You can hide behind the rules but we both know that ego came into play there. With great power comes great responsibility...or something like that.

    And again, yeah...I've broken one of the EIGHTEEN rules of the board. I have on more than one occasion labeled OM (to put it nicely) a Snyder apologist. I believe there is sufficient evidence in the 16,000 or so posts of his to make that charge. I can't say what he's like as a person, I just know how he came off to me on the board.

    Contrary to some of the people in these posts, I like ES. I met some really great people through the board. I just feel that the banning really gets out of hand sometimes for no reason other than "you didn't follow the rules". There needs to be latitude. You may say it's already there but I would disagree. I guess that's why I'm not posting there anymore. :)

    By the way, I loved the Green Lantern Sig.

    Hail,

    Shadowplay

  83. #83

    Om may BE a Snyder apologist Eric - but the fact is, he had an overwhelmingly favorable view before we ever had a relationship with the team - seriously. I'm a homer at heart as well, I've just had most of it beaten out of me over time :) I think one thing the staff 'generally' may do is try to counter-balance the overwhelmingly negative vibe thats become the dominant sentiment for the past couple years. Where some see that as some ominous Snyder conspiracy, it likely has a lot more to do with the fact that the constant drone of nothing but 'the team sucks!' and ''we're doomed' shouts out even a glimmer of fan optimism at times. We don't ban people for being negative though - and while you had a pissing contest with a staffmember, I think you know theres no truth in that aspect of what McKenna is arguing here. Are staff occasionally heavy-handed (myself included)? Yeah, probably - we're human though, and I think thats about as 'deep' as it gets. I'll even bet given some behind the scenes civil discussion, you'd be welcomed back. We don't hold grudges, and contrary to the ridiculous caricature some here are painting of us, I think the staff at extreme are pretty reasonable, good guys.

  84. #84

    Eric,

    One quick question: did your email to McKenna that prompted him to go Woodward and Bernstein include the fact that it was you, not me, who started this thing in motion?

    http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4840674&postcount=46

    That but for your jumping on a post I'd written that had nothing to do with you, breaking two well-established rules you agreed to abide by when you registered, none of this would have happened and you'd not have deprived ES of your presence?

    It's really kind of amazing. Probably 300 people read McKenna's piece here, and a few commented. None apparently bothered to read the thread he linked, however, and notice that the entire basis of the piece was just plain wrong. Do you think he knows?

  85. #85

    "Om may BE a Snyder apologist Eric - but the fact is, he had an overwhelmingly favorable view before we ever had a relationship with the team - seriously."

    Tarhog, you *almost* got it right." [smiley would go here but this is McKenna's house and he doesn't play that shit]

    If you recall, I was pretty much tearing Snyder up before he hired Gibbs for not bringing in a "football guy." I was scared to death he was headed down the Jerry Jones owner-as-GM path. When I gave Snyder a pass was when Gibbs was brought in because, well, he was Gibbs.

    Now that he's gone, anyone who actually checks will see I've been taking a clear "wait and see" stance about what comes next, and have expressed doubts and concerns along with most everyone else. Just not as histrionically as some.

    I'm definitely a REDSKINS "homer," in the way I understand that term to mean to people, but both pre- and now briefly post-Gibbs, I've been decidedly less bullish on Snyder.

    Just wanted to set record straight for whatever sad souls might still be following this riveting thread.

  86. #86

    OM,

    What does it matter? Is that supposed to be your smoking gun to prove to everyone that I'm a menace to society? You discredited McKenna's piece without going into any details why. To me, that's 'stormtrooper' mentality. Your responsibility as a mod isn't to do hatchet jobs on articles that you don't agree with. I called you out on that and you felt the need to come back at me. YOU COULD HAVE LEFT WELL ENOUGH ALONE, you could have went and looked at your post and said "yeah, I didn't really have any thing to add there other than to slams McKenna". But you're OM, the head honcho on one of the most popular fan boards in the country and had to put me in my place. Yeah well...you should have seen this coming.

    And the next time you see Vinny, please tell him he's a douche bag.

    Shadowplay

  87. #87

    Eric, Mr Stevens is an egotistical pampas ass...simple as that. And you 100% right, you call him out and he acts like a whiney 3rd grader and finds just ONE little thing to ban you with. But first he has to act cool and let you know he's the big ES man..NOT!! Site's been a joke for a LONG time. Yeah, they hold it to higher standards. If people don't agree with your opinion they instantly have to post "You're an idio", or " You're studid", or "You have no football knowledge", etc, etc, etc. And don't forget the ever present "You must be a Cowboys fan" when you dare say something about Gibbs or one of the star players. Oh, and the one I love best, "fair-weather fan". Yeah, higher standards my ass!! ES=Extreme Sh*t!!

  88. #88

    "Ain’t the truth a bitch?"
    I've got your bitch right here.

  89. #89

    Bomb, you're a fucking idiot. But I'm just going by your history that you've posted here. :)

  90. #90

    The Truth...you are DEFINATELY and ES member. Like I said before, gotta start it out with an insult. What say you go f**k yourself!!!

  91. #91

    Bomb...I guess THE TRUTH hurts. You're still an idiot.

  92. #92

    Mark,

    What I meant was that you could very well be a 'Snyder apologist', but it wouldn't be because we've been handed the goose that laid the golden eggs. Its because you're an optimistic fan, and want this team to do great things, as you did before the Redskins came along.

    Hey Nailbomb - take it easy brother - you might get banned from the WCP too :) I'm sure your self-restraint and reasoned rational behavior here isn't any indication of how you behaved on our board. Starting to get the picture Mr. McKenna?

  93. #93

    Bomb,

    way to act like an ignorant, whiney bitch! Props!

  94. #94

    Mr. Smith,

    This is to complete the public record in the event this matter ends up before the Supreme Court.

    The Facts:

    You, not I, initiated this affair with an unprovoked personal shot at an ES staff member, violating two long-standing rules in the process. Rules you agreed to abide by when you signed up.

    Faced with a response that was, at worst, mildly insulting to you probably more so Mr. McKenna (more on that below), you responded by insulting the staff member again.

    At that time, the staff member reviewed your account, took into consideration the five previous administrative actions against you recorded there (which we will also assume you elected not to inform Mr. McKenna about), and issued a 1-week suspension. Pretty much standard OP for similar situations.

    [Note: had you contacted the staff member at that time to discuss the matter, and accepted even a hint of responsibility, said suspension would likely have been lifted after a day or two. Also standard OP for similar situations.]

    Before the staff member was able to contact you and explain the suspension per ES policy, you shot off an email lecturing him about his “lackeyness” and what a “stooge” he was.

    After subsequently receiving the staff member’s two separate, deliberately non-personal responses (feel free to say the word and we can add that exchange, verbatim, to the record), detailing the precise reasons for the suspension--which as noted above were NOT based solely on this episode but a cumulative reaction to this and five previous actions--you fired off another response opining about just how badly you were being oppressed.

    At that point, the staff member put your account on “indefinite” suspension until such time as you chose to contact him, sans drama, and tried to resolve the situation to everyone's satisfaction.

    [Note: which would almost assuredly have happened; many, if not most, similar exchanges on ES result in member and staffer agreeing the whole thing was beyond stupid, the member being returned to the board and everyone living happily ever after.

    Not so in your case.

    First, you immediately ran off to Mr. McKenna, willfully misrepresented the facts to him, and fired off a gloating email to the staff member when Mr. McKenna was unable to resist temptation and filed the Pulitzer-worthy investigative report published above.

    Second, you ran off to another Redskins message board, signed up and took your drama there as well:

    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=71#s=71&f=3152&t=1983842

    Third, you failed to note that the response you received at said other message board did not suggest that the ES staff member was the problem.

    Since then, you have continued to point the finger elsewhere, at no time even hinting at taking the slightest bit of responsibility for your own actions.

    Some Final Facts and Predictions:

    Fact: You have set the bar high for all future oppressed message board denizens in terms of reaction to and behavior resulting from standard administrative actions.

    Fact: YOU made this happen, to yourself.

    Prediction: You will continue to insist otherwise.

    Prediction: Some people, such as the eloquent BOMB, will believe you.

    Prediction: Most will not.

    Prediction: Both you and Mr. McKenna will continue to miss the delicious irony of your publicly treating the suggestion that you were and are his target audience as an insult.

    With that, I’m off. There are innocents to oppress and time’s a-wastin’.

    Your Evil Oppressive Moderator,

    Mark Steven
    ES Staff

  95. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #95

    Certain mods on ES have absolutely, positively banned members for posting opinions of dissent.

  96. #96

    Nope.

    As offered multiple times, if you or anyone else has even one specific instance to back that claim, and is willing to have private conversations made public in determining its validity, pony up.

  97. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #97

    Mark..Are you seriously trying to dictate to people here how we must proceed if we want to produce any evidence?

    This is not extremeskins. This is not your site. You have no authority here.

    If I choose to stick my neck out by visiting a thread from the past (which you will undoubtedly track and subsequently indefinitely ban me) to extract the verbiage, I will do so in any manner I please.

  98. I'm NailBomb, I have no balls
    #98

    Nailbomb, does it all really affect you that much? Honestly, why are you so confrontational about something so insignificant. There's no way you're an adult.

  99. #99

    Anonymous ES member,

    I claim no authority here. I challenge you to back your assertion with facts. And I ask your permission to post private communications you might elect NOT to include in your fact list if my research indicates they contributed to or even caused the banning. Doesn't seem an unreasonable stance, does it?

    As to your fear of getting banned on ES for what you say here---won't happen. My word as an evil oppressor of innocents.

    FACT is I've now directly challenged at least three people to back similar claims. None have been willing to do so. Are you the first?

    For the record, if I research the facts and find you're RIGHT, I'll publicly say so, both here and on ES. My evil and oppressive word on that as well.

    Your move.

  100. #100

    To "ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions"

    if want to disprove the fact that you're full of shit, then yes, you must produce some evidence. I guarantee that you're one of those damn n00bs that joined in December acting like they knew the rules, then got their ass rightfully handed to them on a plate.

    Face it, you said something stupid, and you suffered the consequences. The fact that your opinion was dissenting is irrelevant, it's how you said it. And then you come on here, thinking that because we're in a different domain, it'll be easier to portray the Mods in a worse light. You've just made yourself look like more of a whiney little baby. Grow a pair.

  101. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #101

    Haha, you are something else. You do not ask permission. You clearly attempted to dictate the method in which those who made the claims should proceed:

    "...and is willing to have private conversations made public in determining its validity."

    Basically, you were passive aggressively stating that we first communicate with you privately and then after you validate the instance, then we can post it here.

    This attitude is a perfect reflection of the behaviour exhibited by some mods on extremeskins.com.

    I will try to locate the instance I recall but I can't guarantee finding it.

  102. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #102

    Dear ES lackey (Kyle):

    The only thing that is full of shit is your face after all of the brown nosing you engage in over at ES.

    Give a brotha a chance to go back and find the proof before spouting off at the mouth.

    Also, your one and only guarantee is false. I have been a member for years. Further, anyone who has read the rules at ES will attest that they are very convoluted and wordy. In fact they very much resemble the goon that wrote them.

  103. #103

    Damn! There sure is some serious ass-kissing going on here!

  104. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #104

    I found two in the limited time of research please click on links and read for yourself:

    1st incident: "Here's an impromptu board rule.

    The next -- and every -- person who says we drafted two fullbacks when neither guy played fullback in college and neither guy projects to play fullback in the pros gets banned for sheer idiocy. If you have a problem with the draft at least be honest enough to evaluate the players we got and not the fiction you create."

    http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1869799&postcount=4

    2nd Incident: (Please read entire thread, a couple of people get bounced. Some announced, most not).

    "You people are going to start making me hit the ban button because I'm growing VERY tired of uneducated statements like this. Go to CNNSI and see what they think of White. Then, post it. Fpickering, YOU WILL POST THIS NEXT.

    If I see your name beside a post after this time stamp that does not include what a major draft resource like CNNSI has on this player, I will give you a couple of days off. You people WILL START THINKING AND START PROCESSING INFORMATION BEFORE YOU POST IDIOCY.

    You can draw conclusions from the totality of data and from that data you may not like this or other picks. But, you people will stop taking the first thing you see and deciding that is all there is. Starting RIGHT NOW."
    http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1354420&postcount=48

    I will report back here on whether or not my account was suspended.

  105. #105

    Where you at Mark Stevens?

  106. #106

    "ES bans posters for dissenting opinions"

    My ass you're a long time member. If you are, you're quite the tool for sticking around a place that you dislike for so long. Honestly, stop acting like the guys who run ES run it like some kind of Nazi regime. Waahhhh

  107. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #107

    The reason I am a long time member of the site is for the consolidation of Redskins information and the compelling insight of some of its members.... none of which has anything to do with overzealous, power tripping moderators.

    I like the site but not the manner in which some of its moderators behave.

  108. #108

    But I have trouble understanding why. We are part of the same system, and I feel completely different than you do. Either you're blowing things way out of proportion or I'm being overly sympathetic. Maybe it's a combination. I can see how you may have something against a few of the Mods, but I don't believe Om has done anything to warrant some of the responses here.

  109. #109

    Mr. Steven.

    For the record, I forwarded every single email of our private conversations to McKenna before the article was written. I also included the thread about the matter so please don't try to make it out like Dave was led under false pretensions.

    That's right, I posted the link on Warpath. I figured there'd be some kindred spirits there as well since I know I'm not the only one to get banned for life from ES. I guess I thought somebody could relate, but to be honest I got hammered by the mods there too. They didn't ban me though and told me I'd be treated fairly.

    I found this paragraph from an email I sent you after I got your bs formal email about why I was banned:

    "Dude, we both know why you banned me. You can make it sound anyway you want, to fit your official records. My first post was not an insult, it was an observation that it takes almost no time at all for a moderator of the Redskins official boards to start a smear campaign when an author who has something critical to say about the owner. . And my next post was intended to be flippant since you routinely stick up for the owner and bully those of us that have real issues with the way he runs the team. "

    You chose not to reply to this email and you chose not to ask me to clarify any reason why I think you're a stooge for the organization. You just banned me. You obviously didn't think enough about me to consider a response. That's why I didn't think twice about sending the link to some of my favorite websites. The coup de grace was the Deadspin link. That's when I knew I had something. You might have some other treats coming next week, but I'm not sure. Chances are this wave has crested and you and your other henchmen (21 and PCS) can soon go back to telling people how they don't know anything when they bash the Skins.

    You should be thanking me, now you can set the record straight for the public about what kind of compensation you're receiving from the team. For the record, I think you SHOULD get paid. You moderate a board full of people and obviously have your hands full trying to smear any author that has issues on how Snyder and Cerrato operate.

    Hopefully the next time you think about banning somebody, you'll stop for a second and consider whether or not that action is really necessary. Since this whole thing started, I'd like to think you've had time to ask yourself whether or not your action was warranted but my guess is you haven't. That's your choice. In either case, I think it's best if I observe your board from afar.

    I see the Skins hired Zorn. I guess it's time for another "puff piece", eh? Another piece about how Snyder knew he was going to do this ALL ALONG and how really stupid Vinny and Danny made the media look. Riiiiight.

    Hail,

    Shadowplay

  110. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #110

    Why is it so hard for you to understand? Americans are part of the same system but there are Democrats and Republicans.

    I don't have anything against OM.

  111. #111

    Then why are you here.

  112. ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions
    #112

    I am here to lend credence to the assertion that ES Mods Ban posters for dissenting opinions.

    Why are you here?

  113. #113

    Wow. Just read through most of this. My only thoughts are people need to get off message boards and throw a football around and talk about the Skins or something. Take a step back, all of you.

  114. #114

    I was banned when the site became "official" for stating that they sold out. I was banned by some loser who goes by DieHard. His profile lists his profession as a massues. Can a get a happy ending you jerkoff??

  115. #115

    Add me to the list of members here who have been banned from extremeskins. What was my offense, you ask?
    Disagreeing with a moderator.

    Extremeskins has a wide array of discussion which is great but their Stalinist moderators abuse their power all too often and stifle dissenting opinions. It's very similar to what is happening on College campuses nationwide.

    This is why you see all of the brown nosing, and yes there is way more of the same on the site.... and yes, it is pathetic.

  116. Teasing the Retards at ES
    #116

    The moderators at Extremeskins will definitely ban you for dissenting opinions, and message each other to attack posters who dare to question the wisdom and greatness of the malevolent little midget. They want to impose a uniformity of opinion in which the mongoloids can all chase the rolling coin down the hall while they gleefully ingest all of Snyder's shite. They are nothing more than Snyder's BM eaters and as the team tanks it is a pleasure watching them squirm. Snyder and ES are cancer and mental AIDS.

  117. Jumbo, om and Art are all tools
    #117

    ES is lame. The mods suck and anytime they post their little followers all kiss their ass. These are the tools who got beat up in school. thehogs.net is 100 times better and the mods dont control the message and dont jump all over any thread just to do it to show how powerful they are. Its night and day. You can tell its a site run by independant pple not Snyder suck ups. Fuck OM and the rest of the losers there. Like the fan base they will turn more and more pple off to the team and the BB and then it can just be them circle jerking one another.

  118. #118

    ES is STILL as big a joke as it ever was!! The mods are pathetically power-happy and actually think they are something for banning people on a forum!! I guess that's what you get when you try and post on a forum owned by Snyder. Gotta be the biggest joke of a forum I've ever come acrossed!! Guaranteed they all wear pocket protecters!!

  119. #119

    ES is a joke. Like many have said, disagree with a mod and you will eventually get banned. Have a different opinion, you might get banned. The worst part .of that site however is the ass kissing posters. Get into a discussion with a mod and you'll end up defending yourself from the ES mob. Get into a discussion with one of the popular posters and you'll end op defending yourself from the ES mob.

    I'm the poster they call Sith Lord and my posting privileges got taken away for no reason at all. I wasn't popular because I told it like it is and many in the tailgate didn't like that but I never broke any rules. Just to clear it up, I wasn't banned, I just got my posting privileges taken away.

  120. Mark Stevens is a mongoloid
    #120

    Dear Mr. Stevens: How do you ever find the time to be a moderator when you constantly have Snyder's balls in your mouth? Another question: does your wife peg you?

  121. #121

    And now the lovely dictator of the ES is suing a paper!! I really wish I wasn't a loyal person, cuz I am embarassed to be a Skins fan...have been since that idiot has taken over. And yes, ES still SUCKS!!

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