Barnum & Bailey & Davis
Yesterday, Rep. Tom Davis was among the lawmakers demanding further investigation of Miguel Tejada.
Davis et al want to know if Tejada lied when he said he didn’t use performance enhancing drugs. Pretty soon, they’re going to get a chance to entrap Roger Clemens.
Well, if Congress has decided that the sports world is where the government’s investigative powers are most needed, and is so eager to turn its hearings into episodes of “Moment of Truth,”, and is really intent on clearing up questions about who’s using what performance enhancers, well, why stop with Tejada and Clemens?
Why stop with baseball?
Why not go after the Biggest Kahuna of all the alleged drug cheats: Lance Armstrong?
Unlike Tejada, Armstrong has represented America and been named to various White House panels.
By the evidentiary standard used in the Mitchell Report — where, basically, if one hanger on says you’re guilty, you’re guilty — Armstrong looks a helluva lot guiltier than Clemens.
So let’s really get this show going. Bring in Lance Armstrong and put him under oath.
Or, better yet, stop the circus…
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January 17th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Why don’t they concentrate on impeaching Bush instead. His lies have caused infinitely more damage.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Lance Armstrong has been a fearless advocate of the millions of cancer surviors and has fought to contunie funding for cancer research in the hopes of finding a cure. Why would a man who fought for his own life, then in turn use an illegal substance to alter his god given talents? I feel truly sorry for those who cannot believe in his story, the inspiration that he gives cancer surviors and the belief that maybe one day they too can LiveStrong! We as a nation need to focus on the issues that impact each of us; this senseless war, an excellent education system that’s free to all, minimizing our individual and collective affects on the environment and providing free and available health care to all who seek it.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Being an advocate for the noble cause of cancer research does not preclude Mr. Armstrong from being held accountable from the fact that he did indeed use performance enhancing drugs as a professional cyclist. Not only is Mr. Armstrong of guilty of that but of also committing perjury in an arbitration case (SCA Promotions vs. Lance Armstrong) where he outright lied about his usage of performance enhancing drugs. Nor does it preclude him from the fact that he has bullied, intimidated, and threatened people should they reveal the truth of his doping to the public. Since Mr. Armstrong is no longer believed in the sports world, he has shifted his attention to the mainstream media where many choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence of his doping. Mr. Armstrong has attempted to defame people as well should they speak the truth about him. I know because I testified against him and his usage of performance enhancing drugs. Curiously, some of his friends and/or business associates refused to testify on his behalf or sign affidavits for him for the above mentioned arbitration case. One woman who did testify for him committed perjury and later admitted to me that she had; were it not for the emotional toll it has taken on her, she would have never called me to apologize for it. What is despicable is that Mr. Armstrong is using his cancer to shield him from scrutiny of the fraud that he is.
Excellent article Dave McKenna. More journalists like you are needed in the media.
Betsy Andreu
Dearborn, Michigan
January 31st, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Betsy Andreu:
nice to hear from you about Lance Armstrong. i remember your case, and being fascinated by it — particularly the part about Armstrong’s nine-figure donation to the hospital where a doctor who testified on his behalf worked — but i never figured out how you got involved.
how did that happen? and why did that company settle with Armstrong so fast?
in any case, thanks for your post…
January 31st, 2008 at 9:13 pm
The hospital incident was the secret that many in cycling knew about. David Walsh, chief sportswriter for the London Sunday Times and author of the book “From Lance to Landis”, had heard this hospital incident from another source and called me to verify it. In Mr. Walsh’s book “LA Confidential” written in French, he writes of the hospital incident. At the time he asked me and Stephanie McIlvain about it. She too was in the hospital conference room when lance admitted to using a slew of performance enhancing drugs. We both verified it for him but said on the record we had to stick with “no comment” (at that time Stephanie was lance’s personal rep for one of his sponsors).
When the book came out in French in 2004, one of the attorneys for SCA Promotions had picked up a copy while he was traveling in Europe. SCA is the company lance made a deal with: he wins 6 Tours, they pay him 10 million dollars. After the book was read, SCA felt they had been duped by a fraud so they withheld the last 4.5/5 million dollars. The case went before an arbitration panel. Frankie and I were subpoenaed for our depositions under Michigan law. We had no choice but to testify. From the beginning lance’s legal counsel said it wasn’t a doping issue but rather a matter of Texas contract law and tried to prevent the case from going forward. Tim Herman, one of lance’s legal attorneys said exactly that before I was sworn in for my testimony in January 2006, “This ain’t a doping issue - it’s a matter of Texas contract law.” I to Dallas on my own volition for that testimony. SCA was never classified as an insurance company but lance wanted him classified as an insurance company because that would mean what Tim Herman originally said: it was a matter of Texas contract law NOT a doping issue. Unfortunately, SCA Promotions was deemed an insurance company which meant that doping was a non-issue. It was indeed a matter of Texas contract law and as such, lance was owed his money.
As soon as the case settled lance and his attorneys said the court ruled in his favor and he was cleared of doping charges. Not true at all. The case was settled with no finding of fact. Doping, it turned out, was irrelevant. As one prominent journalist told me, “There’s more evidence against lance than there is against Barry Bonds…..”
Nobody wants to realize they’ve been duped - that the fairy tale is a fraud after all.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Betsy Andreu:
what a tale. why hasn’t Lance Armstrong come after you? your testimony seems pretty damaging. again, thanks a lot for posting this. fascinating stuff.
February 1st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I am the attorney for Lance Armstrong and am compelled to respond to yet another false and misleading post from Ms. Andreu, whose obsession with Mr. Armstrong has now surfaced on your blog. She has posted literally dozens of claims, a recent one of which appeared on a Trinidad-Tobago site. Ordinarily, her rantings do not merit the dignity of acknowledgement, but because of the generous number of misrepresentations in her post and a completely reprehensible implications regarding eminent cancer researchers and institutions, a response is in order. Your inquiry as to why Lance has not “come after you” is easily answered. Her testimony is neither plausible nor credible and is a product of her hatred of Lance, who she holds responsible for her husband’s contract termination with the USPS team in 2001. During the trial she carried a note which contained the phrase “why I hate Lance”, and refers to the 70,000,000 Livestrong bracelets, the proceeds of which support cancer victims, as “Lance kiss-ass bands”.
Her claim that Mr. Armstrong used performance enhancing substances is based primarily upon her contention that, in October, 1996 three days after brain surgery, and while hospitalized at the Indiana University Medical Center, Lance told two treating physicians in the presence of at least six other people that he had used prohibited substances. No patient would have been asked those medical history questions 11 days after admission to the hospital, three days after doctors at that hospital had performed extensive brain surgery and in a TV room full of family and friends. Doctors swore under oath that it didn’t happen; the hundreds of pages of hospital records were provided directly to the insurance company from the hospital and those records, which contain every interaction (including over 20 medical histories) with Armstrong during his hospitalization, show it didn’t happen; the other 6-8 people who were in that room at the time either swore it didn’t happen or have no recollection of any such conversation. Betsy Andreu couldn’t identify any of Lance’s doctors as the white coated people allegedly in the room, she hurriedly left the room after two questions and long before the conversation was complete, could not remember the number of doctors, their gender, and could not remember whether Armstrong had bandages or any other sign of the extensive brain surgery he had undergone only three days prior to the alleged incident. It is not insignificant that Lance was required to undergo an active steroid and EPO regimen as part of his post-operative treatment, which may at least partially explain some recollection of those terms being mentioned.
Betsy Andreu is incredibly bitter and would do anything or say anything to hurt Lance Armstrong. For example, she conferred with and assisted the unsuccessful defendants in the SCA case, she voluntarily traveled to Dallas on her own to have the opportunity to testify against Armstrong at trial (she has previously said she had been subpoenaed to appear in Dallas, but the panel had no power to subpoena her appearance at the trial), she conferred with the Lemonds over 100 times during approximately ten months during 2004 and 2005 in a collective effort to attack Armstrong (interestingly, both Lemonds testified that Ms. Andreu described incidents that did not occur – either both Mr. and Mrs. Lemond are lying or Ms. Andreu is lying). Mrs. Andreu was so obsessive that even the insurance company employee responsible for attempting to gather evidence of possible drug use by Lance (the employee had gone so far as to steal a piece of used chewing gum Armstrong had placed in a trash can in a Dallas Courtroom and sent it for DNA testing at a Dallas laboratory) complained of her constant phone calls and suggestions. Mrs. Andreu placed over 15 calls to the investigator during a one-month period prior to the trial. All of Mrs. Andreu’s evidence and allegations were presented and considered at trial and the Panel rejected it as completely incredible and signed its award for 7.5 Million Dollars to Armstrong, $2.5 million more than the limits of the insurance policy the company had initially refused to pay.
The SCA case to which she refers was a three-week arbitration proceeding before three eminent arbitrators, none of whom had any prior connection to Armstrong. Contrary to Ms. Andreu’s characterization, SCA based its entire defense upon allegations of drug use. We requested that the case be decided on a contract basis and that no other testimony should be relevant — those requests were denied and the case went on for three weeks with 2,600 pages of testimony, 300 exhibits and many witnesses, including Ms. Andreu. Had the case involved only contract issues, Ms. Andreu of course would never have been permitted to testify. The three judges “after considering the evidence and testimony”, ordered the insurance company to pay $7,500,000, $2,500,000 more than the policy required.
Her husband, Frankie Andreu, who was a teammate of Lance’s from 1993-2000 and Lance’s roommate on the road, also testified under oath via deposition. Frankie Andreu’s sworn testimony confirms that: a) he had no knowledge that Armstrong ever took any performance enhancement substance; b) had no reason to believe Armstrong had ever done so; c) had never been told by any reliable source that Armstrong had done so; and d) that Armstrong never mentioned, much less suggested, adopting a doping regimen. Andreu was a teammate from approximately 1993 to 2000 and raced hundreds of races with Armstrong.
F. Andreu testimony:
Q. Did he (Armstrong) indicate to you that he was going to use EPO or consider using EPO?
A. No.
Q. Was there any discussion between you and Mr. Armstrong regarding EPO or the use of EPO during that time period?
A. No.
Q. Did anyone on the team tell you that they knew Mr. Armstrong was using EPO during that time period?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have a discussion with Mr. Armstrong about whether or not you should use EPO?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever recommend or say you should do EPO?
A. No.
Q. And although he may not have shown you it, did you ever see anything in his room, in his hotel room or in any possessions that you thought might be a performance-enhancing drug or substance?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not Mr. Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs or substances?
A. I was on the USPS team with him ‘99 and 2000, and in those two years, no.
Q. Did anyone ever tell you that Mr. Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No.
Q. About how many races do you think you and Lance Armstrong were in together as part of the same team, you know, in your career?
A. Hundreds.
Betsy Andreu’s sworn testimony:
Q. And one of the notes that you provided to us had a notation on it by you, why do I hate Lance; correct?
A. Right.
Q. And it’s true that since the summer of 2004, you’ve talked to each of the LeMonds at least 50 times?
A. Yes.
Q. Many times about Mr. Armstrong?
A. Yes. Many times about Mr. Armstrong.
Q. You asked Kathy LeMond to call George Vecsey, who is a sports writer for the New York Times, did you not?
A. I didn’t ask her to call Mr. Vecsey.
Q. So if Ms. LeMond testified to that, that would be a lie?
A. Maybe she got something — she misconstrued something, but I don’t think I ever told her straight out, call George Vecsey.
Q. Now, you’re aware that both Greg and Kathy LeMond testified that you told them that Mr. Armstrong had called your house in a panic because he was out of EPO, and he wanted some from Frank?
A. No, that’s not right.
Q. It was a lie by both LeMonds?
A. That was incorrect.
Q. Well, it was a lie?
A. That was incorrect by the LeMonds. I don’t know —- how they got that.
Q. Are you aware that both LeMonds testified that you told them that you had witnessed Mr. Armstrong inject himself with performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No.
Q. If they did so testify, that would be a lie, wouldn’t it?
A. That would be incorrect, yes.
Q. And you didn’t tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, you said that there was a football game going on in this room.
A. Yes.
Q. October the 27th was a Sunday…Was it day or night when you were in the room
A. It was — it was day. Stephanie remembers it being a Dallas Cowboys game.
Q. You remembered the room. There was a bathroom on the left?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a big table on the right?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a television against the wall?
A. Yes.
Q. Lance was sitting in a chair by the table?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a football game on TV?
A. Yes.
Q. And they began asking questions?
A. Yes.
Q. How many questions did they ask?
A. It wasn’t relevant. I don’t remember.
Q. You knew he’d been in there for a while before you got down there?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew he had already had brain surgery?
A. I believe so.
Q. Well, couldn’t you see his head?
A. Yes. But I couldn’t remember when we got there if he had his brain surgery before or if he had it that next day. I know he was bald, so, yes.
Q. You could remember the setting of the room. You could remember where the bathroom was, but you couldn’t remember noticing that somebody that you had known for some period of time had had brain surgery three days before?
A. Well, I knew he was preparing — I didn’t know if he was preparing to have brain surgery or if he had it.
Q. But you could see his head?
A. Yes, I could. But I don’t remember. If you jog my memory now, I can say, yeah, I remember the scar.
Q. Well, it would be hard to have a scar three days after your surgery, wouldn’t it?
A. It wouldn’t be hard to have a scar.
Q. Did they write down what Mr. Armstrong said?
A. I’m not sure. I think one of them may have had a small notepad.
Q. Did — do you remember any conversation about treatment — postoperative treatment involving steroids?
A. With Lance?
Q. Right.
A. No.
Q. Were you aware that he had had a regimen of EPO as part of his treatment for cancer? Were you aware of that?
A. As most cancer patients, yes.
Q. And as I understand it, the doctor, when he heard what you say was said, had no reaction?
A. Correct.
Q. Now that you think about it, did you — do you believe that Mr. Armstrong had bandages on his head?
A. I don’t know if he had a bandage on his head.
Drs. Nichols and Einhorn are preeminent cancer researchers and treatment specialists. The Indiana University Medical Center is a world-class treatment facility. The contribution was six-figures per year for three years, not nine-figure, and was made to the hospital long after Dr. Nichols left Indiana. The implication that these world-renowned physicians might perjure themselves or that the Medical Center might alter hundreds of pages of medical records because of a contribution is simply baseless and reprehensible.
Ms. Andreu is only a minor irritant and a source of amusement; Lance is about much more important work than to “come after” her ($270 million raised by the Foundation and $3 billion for cancer research recently authorized by Texas voters after Lance’s campaign). However, an attack upon the integrity of real heroes like Drs. Nichols and Einhorn in the war on cancer does warrant a response.
February 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Tim Herman:
Thanks for sending in this rebuttal. I’d read earlier today that the LeMonds had since gone to the press with questions about whether Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs during his career and accused Lance Armstrong of trying to stifle their comments on the subject, but was unaware that they testified on his behalf in earlier cases, so thanks for that.
The day has probably already come where everybody assumes every athlete takes whatever they can get their hands on. Or maybe it’s just me who assumes that. But, it’s a fascinating subject, for sure. So, again, your time and inside information are appreciated.
On a related note, do you have any advice for Roger Clemens?
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Betsy,
When are you going to stop!!! I know the women you are talking about and I can tell you this she did not commit perjury. She answer all the questions best to her ability and she would not have ever call to apologize to you. Why don’t you get on with your life, take care of your husband and kids the a mother should..
Hats off to you Tim Herman.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:16 am
No matter what Mr. Herman says I told the truth about lance armstrong: he undeniably used performance enhancing drugs as a professional cyclist. Mr. Herman’s only excuse for the truth I told regarding lance armstrong is to say that I am obsessed, hateful and angry because he cannot refute the facts that lance armstrong LIED under oath by denying that he used performance enhancing drugs when he did.
Mr. Herman must get the facts correct:
* I never posted anything on a Trinidad-Tabago website. I was contacted by the journalist for the story she wrote on me.
* Frankie, my husband, was employed by USPS as a director of the team until 2003, I believe. His contract was terminated as a pro cyclist after the 2000 season. Frankie refused lance’s offer to see Dr. Michele Ferrari, the notorious doping doctor who was lance’s own doctor. He’d be akin to Trevor Graham or Victor Conte of old. Frankie used epo in 1999 in preparation for the Tour and he refused to dope again in 2000 which was his last year as a pro cyclist.
*One of lance’s many doctors (Craig Nichols) signed an affidavit saying he never asked lance if he had used any performance enhancing drugs. Mr. Herman, however, stated publicly that Lance was asked over and over if he had ever taken anything and the only response by lance was “beer.” Dr. Craig Nichols said that he was never present for the admission lance made in that hospital incident suggesting, therefore, it never occurred. However, Dr. Craig Nichols, did NOT become part of lance’s medical team until after the hospital incident when lance admitting to using a slew of PEDs. Interestingly enough, Dr. Nichols own affidavit doesn’t jive with Tim Herman’s own statement on the subject. Make no mistake about it. Only one doctor in an affidavit said this didn’t happen and that’s because he wasn’t in that room when it did.
*Lance was at a research hospital and had many different medical professionals coming in and out of his room as does happen at a research hospital. In my testimony I described the doctor who asked lance if he had ever used performance enhancing drugs to a T. It is an outright lie to say I didn’t know the gender. Because I didn’t know specifics of what lance’s head looked like is a mere grasp at straws by Mr. Herman.
*Of the six people in that hospital room other than lance and the two doctors who were there as well, only three of us were deposed. Chris Carmichael (with whom lance had a financial stake in Chris’ company, CTS) and his then girlfriend now wife, Page; Stephanie McIlvain, personal rep from one of lance’s sponsors; Lisa Shiels, lance’s then girlfriend; and Frankie and I were present in the room when lance answered the question by the doctor who asked if lance had ever taken any performance enhancing drugs. Of those six people, only three were deposed. Why wouldn’t Chris and Page Carmichael, and Lisa Shiels be deposed and testify for lance if he never used performance enhancing drugs? Couldn’t they say that under oath were it the truth? What about an affidavit, why wouldn’t they even sign an affidavit stating that were it the truth?
Stephanie McIlvain under oath said she couldn’t remember any of the questions the doctor asked lance about performance enhancing drugs and said as well they didn’t ask him anything of the sort. She lied under oath because she and her husband were threatened with the loss of their jobs from the company that sponsored lance should Stephanie “make the company look bad” if she told the truth of the hospital incident. Mr. Herman neglected to say that another deposition by James Startt stated that Stephanie McIlvain did indeed tell Mr. Startt that the hospital incident where lance admitted to using performance enhancing drugs did occur. He testified to this under oath.
*the phrase “why I hate lance” was written down by me as a question I was anticipating from lance defense team such as the other question I was anticipating which was “why does lance hate me?”
*Was every single page of his medical history made available? Let’s see the exact dates of our visit to lance in the hospital from those records.
*Mr. Herman is outright lying when he said I said I was subpoenaed to appear in Dallas for the arbitration case. Absolutely false. My husband and I were subpoenaed in Michigan to testify. I went to Dallas voluntarily when Mr. Armstrong and only when Mr. Armstrong made calls to people after my deposition asking them to sign statements in an attempt to harm my character. These people said no. Going to Dallas was the only way I saw fit to defend my honor and character from vitriolic attacks such as the ones being made here by Mr. Herman.
*I talked to the LeMonds about 50 times each over a 2 year period during the time in question. Our conversations did not nor do they revolve around lance.
*I called the attorney for SCA to merely schedule times for our deposition so as not to further incur attorney fees for something I could handle. Another outright lie and misrepresentation of the truth by Mr. Herman.
*Regarding my husband’s testimony on lance in the notarized deposition he answered “I was not sure” to the question “Prior to hearing him say that, did you know if Mr. Armstrong had used perfromance-enhancing drugs?” Mr. Herman provides a part of Frankie’s testimony but doesn’t clarify when the dates in question are regarding usage of PEDs by Mr. Armstrong. It would be honest to say that Frankie and lance didn’t speak of PEDs in 1993 - that, for example, would be true. But in addition to testifying that lance used epo, growth hormone, cortisone, and testosterone, Frankie also mentioned another instance regarding lance taking pills.
Lance Armstrong beat all these cyclists who have either admitted to doping, been implicated or convicted of doping offenses (for purposes of space I will limit the following cyclists to the 2nd and 3rd place finishers to Lance in the Tours from 1999-2005): 1999 - Zulle (2nd), Escartin (3rd); 2000 - Ullrich (2nd), Beloki (3rd); 2001 - Ullrich (2nd), Beloki (3rd); 2002 - Beloki (2nd), Rumsas (3rd); 2003 - Ullrich (2nd), Vinokourov (3rd); 2004 - Basso (2nd), Ullrich (3rd); 2005 - Basso (2nd), Ullrich (3rd) Yet, lance beat them all.
Mr. Herman, in the couple of years that have passed since my deposition and testimony and most recently in the past few months, I have received phone calls from someone who has apologized profusely for lying under oath in the SCA case. We have e-mails from people who will come forward if need be. We have had phone calls from people who will come forward if need be.
I have absolutely nothing to gain from going up against Mr. Armstrong. He has everything to loose, however. Don’t forget, Marion Jones was tested more than Lance and didn’t turn up positive once. Yes, I’m angry when lies and told about me. The strength of everything I’ve said lies in its honesty.
I think the reason why Tim Herman is responding to your column is because you got a little too close for comfort. As Dick Pound said, “the closer you get the louder they scream.” And you’re getting a little too close. Congrats to you Mr. McKenna. I would welcome getting in front of congress.
The LeMonds, I believe, have never testified on lance’s behalf.
Betsy Andreu
p.s. advice for Roger: continue the personal attacks against McNamee and above all - start a cancer foundation.
February 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 am
Another pathetic attempt by the cult of Lance to smear Betsy.
So far 4 people who were in that hospital room have stated that they heard Lance admitting using drugs. Mr. Herman would prefer that you do not know that, good thing you can find tapes of them admitting it on the internet.
Tim, you must feel more then a little dirty and foolish as you struggle to continue to prop up this myth with a never ending list of lies….how do you keep them all straight?
Lance doped, cheated and lied. It has been proven many times. Just because his foundation helps people does not change the fact that he is a cheater and a lier.
February 4th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Tim, you’re caught in a lie right here. Betsy Andreu posted she voluntarily went to Dallas to testify, here you say completely the opposite. I’m a cycling fan and wanted to believe Armstrong. However, when you see the state of cycling and see how he beat all the doped cyclists, it’s folly to think he was the only contender who wasn’t doped. Combined with all the evidence - albeit circumstantial - presented in “From Lance to Landis” only a fool would think Armstrong didn’t dope his way to victory. You can argue all you want on how epo got into his urine, but it was there 6 times over in his ‘99 urine samples. Please come up with a better excuse than the French hate him.
Kudos to your suggestion Mr. McKenna and kudos to you Betsy for being a strong woman to tell what I and many believe is the truth.
February 6th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Stephanie McIlvain committed perjury. A tape is available on the net where she talks to Greg LeMond and admits that she was there in the room when the admission was made. Lance, Lance’s lawyers - want me to upload it? If so, no problem. Might stop your lies.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Wow Betsy, are you never able to let this go?
The alleged hospital insident happened 12 years ago!!! Sounds like you have a lot of hatred to keep on pursuing this, why else sound like a broken record?
I’m so tired of reading this stuff, you can’t change what happened so get on with your life!
Shut up and move on!
Thanks!
February 6th, 2008 at 5:30 am
Bruce..once a liar, always a liar. The fact that it was 12 years ago is irrelevant. If Lance needed to dope in the past to win, it’s highly likely he did so after coming back from cancer. Also, if he doped before but said he didn’t, it showed that he cannot be trusted. Betsy is right.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:12 am
For people who want to believe tales:
- a lot of studies showed EPO or blood doping provides a huge performance improvement (+ 20%)
- after 1992 riders (and other sport athletes) suddenly have became clearly stronger by a big margin.
During EPO (or blood doping)years, it’s impossible for a clean athletes to beat a doped riders. The normal step between a common rider and an exceptionnel is normaly around 2% or 3%, never 20% !
What is strange with Lance Armstrong :
- he never tested positive despite his testicular which should have generated a false-positive testing. That could be only explain, he was never tested or his postive test were pushed under the rug by UCI as usual or the most probable, Lance Armstrong were using masking agent to beat doping control.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:43 am
By all means Betsy shut-up and let the myth perpetuate and the fraud continue. Highly amusing it is to see the reaction to the mere opinion of the woman who dared stand up to the big bully, Lance Armstrong. Lance’s threats and intimidation speak for itself http://www.austin360.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mo/entries/2008/02/04/lance_armstrong_loses_his_cool.html/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mo/entries/2008/02/04/lance_armstrong_loses_his_cool.html. Tim Herman care to comment on this? Sorry to see the threats by Lance have gone beyond cycling and into his own backyard. Glad to see, however, that his neighbors see him for how he really is. Maybe that’s why he too had them sign a confidentiality agreement regarding the huge mess he made with his pond. Too bad he can’t silence everyone. You rebuked Tim well, Betsy. He’s the fool.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Betsy should have spoke when Lance was still racing, I don’t get it why she is doing it now, what difference does it make?
And who cares?!
Lance doped, but so did the everyone else, including Betsy’s husband…
February 6th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Yes Lance doped like others but Franck has said it without constraint!
Lance still lies and threatens his challengers… very nice comparaison Bruce.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Mr. Herman you are deluded if you think the hospital testimony is the primary reason people think Armstrong used drugs. The evidence to that effect is overwhelming.
But since you brought it up, the phone conversation between Stephanie McIlvain and Greg Lemond proves Stephanie perjured herself. You and everyone else can listen to the phone conversation. It is available for download.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=A4CA77CC2AE55D98
Goodbye Mr. Herman.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
First of all ‘hats off’ to Betsy for not giving in to the bullying from the Armstrong camp on this issue. Anyone who still argues that Armstrong raced clean, beating many other exceptional athletes who also benefited from such practices as the use of Epo and blood doping is either a fool, a naive fan who places blind faith before the truth or simply hasn’t read up on this issue sufficiently. So what if Armstrong passed many doping tests? Plenty of other riders who ‘never failed a drugs test’ have been subsequently shown to have doped and, crucially, blood doping using the riders own blood - one of the most effective methods of doping around - was undetectable right through the Armstrong era!
All Armstrong’s wins prove was that he had a physiology which responded the best to the ’state of the art’ doping techniques and in Bruyneel had a manager more skilled in ‘managing’ the attempts of the sports governing bodies to control doping than anyone else in professional cycling.
This issue DOES continue to matter, not least because in order to support the Armstrong myth far too many people are willing to continue the ongoing war of spin and misinformation regarding the credibility of the French National Doping Control Laboratory and just about anyone else who has played a role in debunking the Armstrong myth. This will have a continuing negative impact on the fight against doping in cycling.
Even worse those defending Armstrong have all too often proved themselves prepared to slander the organisers of the Tour and even the French nation. In reality the organisers of the Tour need doping scandals as much as they need a bullet to the head, with the doping problem slowly but surely bringing the whole sport to it’s knees.
The narrow-minded anti-French xenophobia of many defenders of Armstrong (and of course Landis)ignores the fact that the whole ‘Anglo-Saxon’, ‘winning is all that matters’ ethos which currently dominates the Tour is itself alien to much of what once made the Tour so important to the French. To think that there could be some sort of ‘conspiracy’ to ‘frame’ a winner simply because they happened to be non-French or even American is laughable it is so ludicrous. The true spirit of the Tour is about so much more than who wins and it is no coincidence that the greatest-ever French cycling hero - Raymond Poulidor - never once managed to win the Tour or even to wear the yellow jersey.
Sure, the French would like to see a French winner, but far, far more than this they want to see a winner they can believe in, regardless of their nationality. Due to the effectiveness of modern doping methods such belief is impossible. In turn the Tour is fast losing its status as an important symbol of French nationhood, instead being regarded by most French people as at best an entertaining but meaningless soap opera (as the high-brow French newspaper Le Monde described it) and at worst an embarrassment. No wonder that after the doping fiascos of the 2007 Tour some French newspapers declared the Tour to be ‘dead’.
So, doping matters and in turn the doping of recent Tour winners needs to be brought out into the open if the sport is to have a future, not least because many of those involved in doping in recent years are still involved in professional cycling. For the good of the sport just let’s hope Astana are denied a place in this year’s Tour!
So Betsy, keep on fighting to expose the truth. Oh, and if anyone can post a copy of Armstrong’s interview with Jay Leno (July 11, 2006 - episode 3176) I would just love to see it. From what I have head Armstrong’s reaction to Leno’s quick calculation as to the benefits to be gained from doping was ‘interesting’!
February 6th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Hi MSM, thanks for posting that… And, as you say, goodbye Mr Herman. Close the door/window on your way out.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
There is a lot of power at stake with Lance Armstrong’s entourage– and there are a lot of people who live off of that power. It does not surprise me that LA’s lawyers do this sort of protection, but the effect it has is more devastating to his image than if they’d just remain silent.
February 8th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
From everything I have studied about doping in cycling since 1997, I am lead to believe in Betsy Andreu who has nothing to lose and Lance Armstrong who has everything to lose. Lets not all forget about Dr. Exum and his 30,000 documents which prove that over 40 United States Athletes who competed in the Olympic Games were allowed to dope by the USOC. Lets all stop getting mad at Betsy, Armstrong’s lies, doping in sports, and put that energy into getting these files released so we can finally settle this dispute. Dr. Exum give us the files if you do indeed have the truth as you told me in person in Vegas that Lance Armstrong was allowed to use steroids/testosterone by the USOC ever since 1999 because it was allowed on his medical passport. Even if you show us that fact on paper that will prove Betsy right, because as Dr. Exum told me in person, “Lance was allowed to use steroids from 1999 on.” That would mean in every Tour de France Lance Armstrong would have been allowed to use the same steroid that Floyd Landis was found guilty of, and stripped of a tour title. If anyone should be upset it should be Landis. Here you basically followed in the footsteps of a so-called champion, and now he was allowed to use testosterone and Landis wasn’t? If you really research this case and talk to people face to face like I have, you will also easily believe in the conspiracy that Lance 100% used doping products. If everyone had lived their life in my shoes, you would believe as I would and put my life on it, that Lance doped and Lance is a fraud. Lets not forget that Armstrong was key to signing Ivan Basso, without DNA evidence from Operation Puerto. So not only was Lance I believe doping, but leaving the sport and hiring only dopers to his team spreading the doping culture in the sport. And yes Ivan Basso, was eventually removed from the sport, even though Lance, Johan, and Team Discovery went against the PRO RIDERS UNION. You see most people only have a slight view of what is really going on in the sport, or in sports. You view things from the outside after it has been altered by high paid marketing people and lawyers. Me I was friends with guys on Postal, I talked to Prentice Steffen who told me that Lance forced him to sign off on a paper by Lance’s lawyers stating that Tyler Hamilton and Marty never asked him for EPO, because Lance had told him he was going to take his house! The facts remain. USA Cycling is not doing anything to educate or protect the next generation in reality, in my opinion. Lets see some really anti-doping programs put in place. This problem isn’t going away, and people like Betsy, Me, and many others with intergrity can’t sleep at night when we see an injustice. We have to work until it is fixed. What if Lance becomes the president of the United States or comes into power. Like Arnold who has admitted and said he owes everything to using performance-enhancing drugs, an ILLEGAL drug. What kind of people are running the show if, real Americans like Betsy don’t stand up. My grandfather turned down 5 purple hearts in WW2 as Colonel in the Air Force, and captain of a bomber. My mother is an environmentalist, and this bloodline of fighting for what is right is passed down to me. No I don’t agree with the war in Iraq, mostly because I don’t trust the White House, who by the way cut their funding to the World Anti-Doping Agency, and also let Victor Conte off of an up to 20 year prison sentence for fraud, money laundering, and illegal distribution of steroids for a 14 month sentence, and Marion Jones is going longer than him, thanks to GEORGE BUSH. Nobody in the White House really cares, and nobody in the WHITE HOUSE is being real with the people in this country. Now I start to believe that this world really is going to be gone in a few years, when honor, integrity, corperate greed, global warming, war, death, murder for oil or whatever. This world is seriously f@#ked, and Lance to me is just another bad guy who needs to go down, and I can only focus on that and fixing my sport of cycling, just like everyone else should focus on fixing the world in whatever way they can. When we all do that maybe we can solve a lot of these problems that we all hate. Doping leads to cancer, recreational drug abuse, and many evil and bad things. Look at the wrestlers who are killing their entire families, as steroids can make you nuts. Doping is more evil than good, and it is more of the way of the devil than of God for anyone who is religious. I fight evil, and I support anti-doping.
February 8th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
I think this dispute about Armstrong’s possible doping prior to getting cancer, and prior to winning the Tour de France is off point. If he doped to win, that would be different. Even then, it would be a doper who beat other dopers, although clearly he had the best team, biggest budget, and clearest focus on a single race, so that the actual strategy and resources might be of interest in explaining his victories.
February 8th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Lemond said it best, no rider with a natural VO2 max of the low to mid 80s without doping could produce the same wattage as Armstrong. I had a VO2 in the low 80s, and if I had done EPO, maybe I would have been a contender in the Tour de France if I was using EPO. I won a UCI yellow without using EPO, but to get to that level clean in my opinion would only be possible by someone with a VO2 of around 90. That would be one person. Greg Lemond. Nearly every pro athlete I have ever met or been around works just as hard as the next. The difference in pro racing isn’t about strategy, or training. It is about who is willing to do whatever it takes to win, including doping. Look at the 1984 U.S. Olympic Cycling Team, do you really think they would have won gold without blood doping? All of the sudden Eddie B and friends at USA Cycling blood dope a cycling team and these regular cyclists now put in the best Olympic Games in the history of USA Cycling. The power of blood doping is something like 20%, and add HGH which is undetectable is what they told me while racing pro in Europe another 20% or so. Now add testosterone, and some cortisone to kill the pain and get extra juice and you are talking about someone with a natural hematocrit at around 80 producing about 500 watts at threshold when it should be around 410-420. There is no real science to training, that is going to give you an extra 100 watts on your competition unless you are using say, DR. FERRARI which Lance did. Dr. Ferrari lets not forget was SENT TO PRISON for teaching riders how to use EPO. So if Lance had Chris Carmichael as a coach, who by the way was a member (alternate) of that 1984 blood doping Olympic Team, coaching him. Why would Lance have a use for Dr. Ferrari? Think about that for a minute. You know Michael Rogers also used Dr. Ferrari, and he eventually beat me in Beauce when I was clean. So is the difference in cycling hard work or doping? David McKenzie told me on Linda McCartney that even if you had a natural hematocrit of 48 and the U.C.I. limit is 50, he would use EPO because it made a difference. If I ever took EPO the correct way, when I was wearing a UCI yellow with a hematocrit of 42, I would have been a Tour rider. Any real pro racer will tell you the same, and that is the draw of using the drugs. Make $20,000 and get your ass kicked by dopers, or join them and make $500,000. That is why I have no real friends in the industry or in pro cycling. Just recently have teams now jumped on the anti-doping band wagon, prior to 2003 it was hear no evil, see no evil in reality. No internal testing, no talks by directors, and in Italy when I was a U-23 it was enough that my GM would yell at me for not taking EPO and HGH. Cycling in America is small scale to Italy. There it is everything, but now thanks to all of this publicity doping is spreading. I have heard on CNN that steroid abuse by young people has tripled. It is in every magazine, next to your penis enlarging pills ad. American’s love doping and drugs. People love doping and drugs. You know no matter what Betsy, me, or any other anti-doper does we will alwsys have no funding etc. Lance won the game. He lived his life as a Tour de France winning pro, has millions of fans, and millions of dollars. Me I am working some job I hate because I had to grow a conscience to tell the world the truth about cycling and to tell them what really goes on so that people who didn’t like doping would know to get their college degree before turning pro so that you could have a life after cycling. It just sucks when I continue to see guys I know who dope continue to get contracts over anti-dopers and there is nothing I can do. Look at Kayle Leogrande, a guy who admitted to Rock Racing that he did EPO and they resigned him. I got it all on SU and maybe I will let you guys hear the recording once his trial is going on. This all makes me wonder if everyone thinks Lance is so great and I can see what the media is capable of hiding who else is bad like that? Hate anti-dopers or people like me or not, but at least we know how to raise a question and the power of one voice. And another thing to Lance’s Lawyer. Why don’t you guys get some balls and try and sue me? I have been asking for it for years! You guys don’t have courage to go against Stolen Underground because you know we would expose your lies to the world if we got cornered. You would be shocked if you knew who is on our side in reality and when push comes to shove I believe we break the whole machine. So please sue us. PLEASE! Either way Armstrong stock is going down. And how much money is really going to the cancer community with all of this LIVESTRONG STUFF ANYWAY, AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS SOLD FOR A PROFIT? Tyler Hamilton also had a foundation that raised $400,000 for M.S., and you know that the M.S. Society only got less than $40,000. Robert Greene said it best, “Once sincere and honest action will make up for dozens of dishonest ones.”
February 9th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Why isn’t anyone talking about the real scandal?
People are actually paying money to hire Frankie Andreu to speak at events! This is a guy who never won a major race, never won any Olympic medals (not even pewter, lead or copper), and never won a single Tour de France stage — even though he is an admitted cheater and doper! This guy came in 110th place in his last Tour de France for God’s sake! What a loser. And we are supposed to listen to him (and his wife) as “cycling experts”. This guy is an embarrassment to the whole state of Michigan. Dude, please pack up you sh!t and move to Ohio. Thank you. Your neighbors.
February 9th, 2008 at 6:02 am
Greg Lemond is a real S*** to say that the converstion was not being recorded when it was and then to release it to someone who published it on the internet.
This all happened in the past. S Underground well I am sure your grandfather will have used amphetamines during ww2 because it was what was done to keep air crew awake. Looking back at the past and judging from where we stand today is hopeless.
Then what about G Hincapie why are you not gunning for him? Armstrongs current life does not look that great too me,just let him live it.No human is all good or all bad and some are more flawed than others. What is the diference between raising your haematocrit by EPO or by living at altitude or sleeping in a hypoxic tent?
Clinton admitted to smoking dope(ok he wimped out and tried to justify that he didn’t inhale what a whuzz ) numerous members of the British Cabinet have admitted to smoking dope.Will they get their visas refused like Amy Winehouse no life aint fair. Drugs are out there in the big wide world sport politics film stars etc.
All this debate is doing is hurting the innocent ex wives,wives,kids S. McIlvain. Just walk away from it all.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Hey Lansing, maybe he would have placed higher and won more if he didn’t have to ride for Lance Armstrong and the other team leaders. Sheesh, you know nothing…
I’d rather listen to Frankie speak than someone who doped and never regretted it..he has integrity that some top pro riders will never have.
Also, when Frankie doped it was to help the team, not himself. In fact, I’ve heard that for many US Postal riders, being on a program was a requirement if you wanted to make the Tour team. Sometimes people don’t dope for their own results, but because of pressure by others.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
ps that’s not to say that every USPS rider who rode the Tour doped…I don’t know that. But certainly there were some very strange performances at times during Armstrong’s seven wins.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Hey Conal A Drew. I respectfully disagree. Frankie would not have done any better even if he had been his own team leader. Vitamins didn’t help him, training didn’t help him, and banned performance-enhancing drugs didn’t help him. The truth is, he just wasn’t a very good rider. That’s why I resent him talking so much smack. If Bernard Hinault, Miguel Indurain, Eddy Merckx, or Jacques Anquetil want to disparage Armstrong — then that’s their right. They earned it. Heck, even that jealous crybaby-whiner Greg Lemond is entitled to talk a little smack since he won a few tours himself. But not some 110th place rider like Frankie — and certainly not his wife, neighbor, kindergarten teacher or other irrelevant bystanders. If the want to write a book on a topic they have some expertise in — like being losers — then that’s fine with me.
Respectfully,
Lansing, MI
February 11th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Lansing, want to refute what I say with facts? You don’t quite cut it with personal attacks. How many Tours did you ride in - clean if I may ask? Too bad you missed out on some of Frankie’s recent speaking engagements. maybe you could’ve thrown tomatoes at him.
February 12th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Lansing, your comment about losers at the end of your post shows what a petty message it is. Who are you? What did you achieve? And if you did achieve something notable, was it done clean? Fact is, I’d rather listen to Frankie Andreu give speeches than some other rider who doped and pretends he never did.
Also, by your reasoning the only people who have a right to disparage Lance are those who beat him on a bike? That’s frankly ludicrous. People don’t command respect, they earn respect. And if it turns out that Lance doped and then lied through his teeth about it - which looks more and more likely as time passes - then he doesn’t deserve respect. He deserves to be shown up as a fraud.
February 13th, 2008 at 5:56 am
If Mr Armstrong doesn’t have the time to deal with matters like this, why does he send a highly paid attack dog to do his work for him? Or do you do your master’s dirty work for free, Mr Herman. Gosh, I’d have a thought a big important man like you would have better things to do with his time as well…
February 14th, 2008 at 2:07 am
I just came across this blog and find all this information fascinating. I have followed Lance’s career from the time he was an amateur with Subaru-Montgomery, and have always hoped that he raced clean. I don’t know that he did, but I also don’t know that he didn’t. I do know that he is a powerful man with friends in high places, and that he and his team have appeared to go out of their way to smear the Andreu’s. Frankie was a great racer, and easy to talk to. He was very approachable at the Tour DuPont in the mid ’90’s. That doesn’t make him an honest man, but it doesn’t make him (or Betsy) a liar. What about one of his other Motorola teammates, Steven Swart? I think he also said that Lance doped. Anyway, for what it’s worth, the link that MSM posted of the Greg LeMond phone conversation no longer works.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Ozarkbikeracer 1.
Yes I too stumbled across this site but find it fascinting.
The tape of the Greg LeMond converstion I am ashamed to say I did listen to it. I am glad that it is not availabe now.
I just cannot believe nobody else took offence at the way the male voice supposed to be Greg Lemond gained the female’s trust and repeatedly told her that it was not being recorded when it was. Then he gave it, sold it, or posted it himself who knows which. What is known is that he gave no consideration at all to the well being of the person he recorded and whose trust he had wrongly gained.Does it not bother you?
Are all pro-cyclists so dishonerable? I can not see why nobody takes issue with that or maybe someone has.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
We are starting a petition to have Congress Investigate Lance Armstrong for both doping and lying under oath. Please sign it today!
February 14th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
What the h3ll is our government doing spending their term of office investigating sports enhancement drugs??
The Petroleum companies are raping the citizens, layoffs of thousands are a bi-weekly event; I could go on and on about the downfall of the USA…. Our Senate and Congress are just another great example of absolutely doing NOTHING…. Keep government, drugs, and religion apart…
February 14th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
If Congress and the Senate spent 10% of their term taking care of their responsibilities that would be a 110% improvement. Baseball, Football, Cycling, whatever all have GOVERNING COMMISSIONS and I, for one, did not vote for my congressman, senator or mayor to spend their term devoted to sports…. DO YOUR G.D. JOB, you bloodsucking, do nothing, elected officials.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:15 am
The recording of the interview between Stephanie McIlvain and Greg Lemond is now available at:
http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2132106/m/gregstef.mp3
As to the morality of Lemond’s actions. I think what he did was entirely justifiable given that he was been threatened with having his business interests destroyed for speaking out about Armstrong, with Armstrong also threatening that he would find ten people who would testify that Lemond himself had used Epo is he didn’t shut up. It is not Lemond who has been the ‘dishonourable’ one.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
INVESTIGATE LANCE ARMSTRONG FOR LYING UNDER OATH IN THE SCA PROMOTIONS TRIAL AND FOR DOPING. http://WWW.SU13.US OR http://WWW.STOLENUNDERGROUND.COM TO SIGN THE PETITION.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Please sign the petition to investigate Lance Armstrong for lying under oath in the SCA Promotions Trial and for doping. Visit http://www.su13.us or http://www.stolenunderground.com to sign the petition, and you can join our anti-doping cycling team if you want to get more involved.
February 17th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Ok so I have researched this EPO,the lack of oxygen causes an increased risk of ischaemic heart disease,hypoxix tents and living at altitude causes hypoxia when you sleep and so artificially causes a rise in haematocrit. EPO does the same without the risk. I would rather a teenager took EPO than undertook enforced nocturnal hypoxia.
I think EPO is safer. I do not care about the past I care about the kids who are juniors now and will become the world champions of the future. These risks start when they are young and vulnerable and easily impressed.To win they all make big sacrifices but I would rather they harm themselves less. I realise that many of you can not understand this as it is about thinking forwards and not backwards. It is about protecting out children.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:56 am
Hi Betsy,
Thanks for posting here - I find your posts to be most fascinating and truthful. On an un-realted post, could you tell me (it’s always been bugging me!) why Frankie hated Richard Virenque so much in the 1999 Tour. Ok, Tricky Dicky cheated then lied about it, but isnt that what most cyclists do? And for Frankie to express such hatred for a doper whilst doping himself is outright hypocrisy! Thoughts?
Rob
February 23rd, 2008 at 7:12 am
Someone please give me my balls back so I can tell my wife to shut the hell up.
February 23rd, 2008 at 8:39 am
There was this girl in Salem who had crazy ideas about one of the town’s leaders. It turns out his name was Lance Waterbord and he road a Waterford.
Sincerely,
Ted
February 23rd, 2008 at 9:04 am
Oh oh, I sense a domestic situation developing.
Hey, Betsy, enough already. I’m sure you’re a lovely caring person so why are you doing your best to present yourself as bitter and deluded.
Bad luck that a representative of Armstrong’s chose to correct you so publicly, but hey, it’s yesterday’s news. Lance has dome incredible charitable work. Constantly (and I mean constantly) attacking him and spreading malicious gossip isn’t going to do anyone any favors.
Take a chill pill and move on.
February 23rd, 2008 at 10:00 am
Writing the truth by refuting and rebuking his lies is not spreading gossip or showing bitterness.
Weakness is not my strength. Get over it.
At least Roger Clemens is not going after the Pettites. I’m sure Andy wouldn’t let his wife be unjustly attacked for her role in telling the truth either.
Mr. Garford, it’s presumptuous to state Frankie didn’t like Virenque because Virenque doped. He wouldn’t have cared for him were he clean as a whistle either. It was a personality clash absolutely nothing to do with doping.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Betsy,
You say:
“Lance Armstrong beat all these cyclists who have either admitted to doping, been implicated or convicted of doping offenses (for purposes of space I will limit the following cyclists to the 2nd and 3rd place finishers to Lance in the Tours from 1999-2005): 1999 - Zulle (2nd), Escartin (3rd); 2000 - Ullrich (2nd), Beloki (3rd); 2001 - Ullrich (2nd), Beloki (3rd); 2002 - Beloki (2nd), Rumsas (3rd); 2003 - Ullrich (2nd), Vinokourov (3rd); 2004 - Basso (2nd), Ullrich (3rd); 2005 - Basso (2nd), Ullrich (3rd) Yet, lance beat them all.”
Maybe you’re right on all accounts about Lance. But how is it doping was so rampant during Lance’s Tour era (1999-2005), yet just a couple of years earlier, Greg LeMond was able to win three Tours clean as a whistle, and against many of the same competitors from Lance’s era?
Did doping start with Lance’s era? And if not, why is it impossible for Lance to beat other dopers without being doped himself when we’re also told to believe Greg LeMond whooped everybody, too, but he was clean as a whistle? Based on that logic, the only way Greg wins is that every other top-tier rider was clean, too. That’s your logic.
And you have to admit that Greg’s excuse for quitting the peloton–because everyone was doped up on EPO–is a stretch. So EPO, and doping in general, started the year Greg decided to quit? And that’s why he decided to quit? Because he could no longer keep up with the dopers?
Okay, just to summarize: Lance? Doper. Everyone in the peloton during Lance’s era? Dopers. Lance could only beat the dopers because he doped? True–there’s no other way he could win. Greg LeMond? Clean. Top riders in Greg’s era? All clean, because there’s just no way a non-doper can beat a doper. That’s your logic. So everyone in the top 30 in all of Greg’s Tour wins was clean? Must be so.
Wow. Greg LeMond is awesome. And Lance is Satan.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Ah yes, Nice to see what happens when you write anything about Armstrong and doping. Not only does Ms. Andreau show up, but she brings with her the trolls from the forums who salivate over the thought of finally getting Armstrong.
This case is so complicated and there is no one comes out looking good. By the way, did Frankie perjure himself in that testimony?
Q. And although he may not have shown you it, did you ever see anything in his room, in his hotel room or in any possessions that you thought might be a performance-enhancing drug or substance?
A. No, I did not.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
And the funniest thing about LeMond’s claim is that he seems to think doping became widespread during his decline. If you read Walsh’s book, you will know that the major accusations against Lance’s USPS team is that of blood doping. So when did this begin? Not in 1991.
In fact, the United States olympic cycling team was involved in a blood doping scandal in 1984, before LeMond ever won his first Tour.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Sean,
Greg Lemond won his last Tour de France 9 years before Lance Armstrong won his first. EPO became widespread in 1991. Indurain was the first winner to use it, all of Banesto used EPO. EPO changed doping. A clean rider had no hope anymore.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:56 pm
As always, the hatred and vitriol that is spewed whenever Mrs. Andreu speaks is mind-blowing. Here’s what we know -
1. Lance Armstrong won 7 tours.
2. Where there’s smoke there’s fire and he probably had some help. Maybe EPO, Steroids, HGH and monkey blood.
3. His foundation has raised $270 Million and via his lobbying efforts $3 BILLION.
4. I’ve just buried a great friend, mother of 2, and fantastic wife after a prolonged battle with leukemia.
Perhaps Lance is the devil-incarnate. Lucifer who cycles among us, but if his efforts bring about a cure or some comfort to others where is the harm? Please tell me.
Let it go, Mrs Andreu because God-forbid you should ever have to suffer the pain of losing Mr. Andreu or one of your children to this dreadful disease. What a great irony it will be if, in say 5 -10 years, one of your loved ones is cured via research funded by the LAF.
Let’s say for the sake of argument you WIN. Lance is brought before a court in handcuffs, tarred and feathered and exiled to Greenland. There are literally THOUSANDS of patients in cancer wards throughout the world who use “It’s Not About the Bike” as their motivational tool for recovery who will lose all hope. IS THIS WHAT YOU’RE AFTER? Will that make you feel vindicated? Hurray! I showed all those bald people that are hooked up to Chemo drips what a fraud their hero is. Congratulations. Could you be any more selfish? Shut up and let them believe. We both know there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, et al. but can we all agree that, regardless, the belief in these “Icons” has brought alot of joy to children throughout the world? Is that sooooo terrible.
Mrs. Andreu, I’m certain this entire business has caused you an amazing amount of pain and suffering. I’m certain you’re probably spot on with your accusations. Do you truly think you’re making the world a better place by de-frocking Lance Armstrong and kicking the chair out from under the LAF?
Sometimes being right isn’t.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Duque,
You said:
“Greg Lemond won his last Tour de France 9 years before Lance Armstrong won his first. EPO became widespread in 1991. Indurain was the first winner to use it, all of Banesto used EPO. EPO changed doping. A clean rider had no hope anymore.”
That’s all fine and dandy. But it lends nothing to Betsy’s hypothesis that only dopers can beat other dopers. Take EPO out of the equation. Prior to EPO, it was other PEDs. You can’t just come out and say “Lance was doping because everyone else was doping, and he couldn’t beat other dopers unless HE was doping, too”…
…while at the same time believing that Greg LeMond is the only clean winner, ever, in the Tour, because, using Betsy’s hypothesis, to believe that you’d also have to believe that no other top-tier riders were doping during Greg’s era.
Fine, EPO changed doping, as you say…but what’s being accepted as fact here is that Greg could beat all of the dopers of his era because they were “just” using amphetimines and other magic dust, and not EPO.
Doesn’t that make Greg sound MORE super-human than Lance?
Betsy’s Logic: Clean Greg CAN beat dopers; clean Lance CANNOT beat dopers.
This particular argument doesn’t hold water.
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Sean, I didn’t say that - I merely pointed out a fact.
Because people do good should not preclude them from being held accountable for actions that are questionable or downright wrong - especially when it involves hurting other people.
February 24th, 2008 at 6:49 am
HI Betsy,
Thanks for the reply. I was lead to belive through a cycling magazine at the time that it was doping - related.In fact the magazine said something to the effect that he, and the rest if the usps team would chase down every one of his attacks - putulance AND hypocrisy. If it was as simple as a clash of personalities then why tear shreds off him (Virenque) in his Tour diaries? Keep it to yoursefl for heavens sake. Your husband must be a real class act.
RG
February 24th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Frankie is a real class act. Ask anyone in cycling not associated with lance and you’ll get nothing but positive feedback regarding Frankie.
Your attempt to berate Frankie is futile. He didn’t and hasn’t pointed fingers to anyone’s doping. He testified against lance and that was the only person he has ever said doped. He didn’t spew what he knows about others. So you are correct: he is a class act. Thanks, we agree on something.
February 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Hi Betsy,
I doubt that classy people tear other people to shreds just becasue they have a ‘clash in personalities’.
As much as I don’t like Frankie (gee, maybe a clash in personality?) I have never had the urge to tarnish his name on any of the many cycling message boards (like, say, the DP forums)present on the internet. Then again, im am not a cyclist so I dont have the insider knowledge that he is indeed a nice guy at heart! I have my doubts!
Nevertheless, continually standing up for your husband is admirable on your part even if it does suggest that he himself lack some cajones.
Peace
RG
February 24th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
That’s the beautiful thing about living here: you have the freedom to opine and tear Frankie to shreds. Your thoughts of him are insignificant to him. That’s why he’s not posting. I’ll let it rest when I say I don’t really care either. So post away now.
Peace
February 24th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Sean in nashville. You are correct that doping did exist in pro cycling, going back 40 years. But your argument that the doping effects were the same simply isn’t supported by fact. As others have pointed out, the typical doping regimen before 1990 was amphetamines, testosterone, and plain old painkillers/narcotics. EPO was released in the marketplace in 1989, and probably took a few years before it found use in athletics. The ’90s were the heyday of EPO, with riders routinely testing with hematocrits levels between 50 and 60. That is where the dramatic doping effect occurred. Popping amphetamines or pain killers won’t win you a 3 week Tour, and will do nothing to increase your oxygen carrying capacity. Dramatically boosting your hematocrit will.
Once the EPO test was implemented (2001/2002), the teams (who now had full time medical staffs- something unheard of in the ’80s) started using actual blood infusions, micro-dosing of epo with masking agents, or synthetic substances designed to increase oxygen capacity. Lemond had one of the highest VO2max measurements ever recorded (92). Armstrong’s was around 80-83 (depending on which Dr. Coyle article you read). So yes, Greg was more superhuman than Lance. And yes, after ‘91, the riders’ hematocrit levels jumped. And it wasn’t from iron supplements.
February 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Betsy,
Thank you! As a fan of cycling for over 15 years, I want to see the sport cleaned up and you are doing so much to uncover the reality of doping in professional cycling. I follow cycling every day, and post on 3 of the major forums, and you and your husband have a great deal of support. Keep telling the truth! We may never have a completely clean peloton, but the systematic super doping is coming unraveled, and we all have to keep pushing.
Sean in Nashville: read this, it should answer your questions: http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html
Robert: you know nothing about cycling or Frankie, yet somehow you feel free to post your ignorant drivel? Save it for DP, I am sure there are many there who will appreciate your uninformed opinions.
DeCanio: Keep uncovering!
February 25th, 2008 at 9:36 am
TFF
It isn’t ignorant drivel at all and I happen to know a fair bit about cycling myself - being a fan for 30 odd years.
I totally agree with Betsy re: Lance Armstrong - for sure this guy doped himself to the max. It is absurd that some people still think he’s clean - those are the ignorant fans that know nothing about cycling.
ROB
February 25th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Robert,
You tarnish someone you don’t know personally and you don’t ride. I suggest maybe changing both of those things, and then you might be taken seriously regarding your opinions. Otherwise, your post regarding Frankie is no better than what you accuse him of being, classless. Actually, I suggest riding because it is the greatest activity known to mankind, but I am a little biased about that.
February 25th, 2008 at 9:51 am
And actually, I hit a 1 instead of a 2 (they are next to each other), and it should have read 25 years.
February 25th, 2008 at 11:28 am
TFF
Your post is riddled with errors-
>You tarnish someone you don’t know personally
No, I only said that I didn’t ‘like’ him in response to Betsy. Must be a clash of personalities or something eh!? haha
> you don’t ride
taken out of context. It was meant to read - I am not a >pro I suggest riding because it is the greatest activity known to mankind
‘One of the’, for sure
>And actually, I hit a 1 instead of a 2 (they are next to each other), and it should have read 25 years.
Riiiiiiiiiight ;)
February 25th, 2008 at 11:52 am
“If it was as simple as a clash of personalities then why tear shreds off him (Virenque) in his Tour diaries? Keep it to yoursefl for heavens sake. Your husband must be a real class act.”
See the difference is that FA knew Virenque, you don’t KNOW Mr. Andreu. See the difference? I would suggest that within the context of the word “tarnish,” your comment fits.
And irrespective of whether you believe the mistake I made, 15 or 25 (I started when many did, during the era of Lemond, so 21 years to be precise) is irrelevant to the point that you made statements about someone without really knowing what you were talking about. I am merely suggesting that you should be more careful in character assassination attempts.
February 25th, 2008 at 11:53 am
“taken out of context. It was meant to read - I am not a >pro I suggest riding because it is the greatest activity known to mankind”
Riiiiiiiiiight
February 25th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
TFF
Nice try, but alas you fail again.
I don’t know FA personally (and I suggest that he wouldn’t know Virenque personally either). I do however know that FA is a petulant hypocrit. Virenque on the other hand is a liar, but he doesnt point the finger on others like FA does and comes over as a much nicer person in general.
The “I am not a cyclist ” was in repsonse to Betsy saying “Ask anyone in cycling not associated with lance and you’ll get nothing but positive feedback regarding Frankie” - clearly she was refering to the pro ranks. So nice try at discrediting me. keep trying.
February 25th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Really, he didn’t know him personally? You’d think that riding around Europe racing together, they might run into one another at some point. You know, the law of averages. Me, I actually met Frankie once, not in a way that would give me insight into his psyche, but he was very nice none the less.
Yea, keep trying there hypo. I’ll believe the riding story any day now.
February 25th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
TFF , you really are tiresome.
RV does not speak English and is therefore unlikely to know him personally as you suggest. There are thousands of cyclists and each one of those do no know the others ‘personally’.
Lol, go back to your Floyd discussion board on the DP - you seem to like fairytales - or maybe it because your a relative newcomer to the sport ;-)
February 25th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
You don’t know him personally, but you know that he is a “petulant hypocrite?” That is not “tarnishing” to him? I am simply suggesting that your harsh condemnation of a man you do not know is inappropriate, unless you happen to be close with Virenque. I could understand that. I could also understand if you have some personal anecdotes that would shed him in a different light. However, I would say that neither of those two things are true, and that you should just quit while you are behind.
February 25th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I like the fairytale that Floyd tested positive for testosterone? No, I am pretty sure he tested positive…yep, very sure. Have you actually followed the Landis case?
That is beside the point, and not germane to this topic.
Yea, you have 9+ years on me, but I am sensing that your kung-fu powers are not as strong as mine. Really, I suggest that you just stop…really……stop.
February 25th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
“RV does not speak English and is therefore unlikely to know him personally as you suggest. There are thousands of cyclists and each one of those do no know the others ‘personally’.”
And there are thousands of people who have opinions based on nothing but their opinion…you know…like you. I also hear that we each have an….well, just look in the mirror and come up with the euphemism for your reflection.
February 25th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Yap, yap, yap
tiresome
RG
February 25th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Kung-fu master says: “One who does not wish to have his buttocks handed to him, should not present buttocks in first place, shamma lamma lamma ding dong”
February 25th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Kung-fu master says: “One who does not wish to have his buttocks handed to him, should not present buttocks in first place, shamma lamma lamma ding dong”
hahaha deluded AND tirseome
lmfao
February 25th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Yea, lets call it a truce…you know, the kind where you admit that you look like a moron and continued to defend your moronity (that isn’t a word) even thought it is obvious that you are a….well for lack of a better word…moron, and I continue to be bemused by your inability to actually think your way out of a paper bag.
February 25th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Actually, if you would like to continue this, bring it over here http://www.cyclingforums.com/f30-grand-tours—giro—tour-de-france—vuelta-a-españa.html
I am going to stop urinating on this discussion as now, this is a personal insultathon that has nothing to do with the topic. However, I would love to keep making you look ridiculous if you are game. I have nothing but time and IQ to spend..
February 25th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Yap yap yap
your cycling knowledge is obviously as limited as your tiny pea-sized brain.Why dont you go over to the DP and fantasize about Floyd.
RG
March 2nd, 2008 at 6:51 am
Robert Garford-
Sorry to break it to you but Richard Virenque does speak a little english, and also when you are a top pro living in Europe,and racing in France, you tend to pick up the language.
March 25th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
http://community.active.com/blogs/MartinDugard/2007/06
Floyd told Martin Dugard last June 07 that Lance Doped.
My buddy Austin Murphy told me weeks ago about the pre-Tour piece he was working on, but swore me to secrecy until it came out. Ah, but now we can talk. A great piece on doping at the Tour, pointing a lot of fingers at Lance Armstrong, in particular. Two very accomplished cyclists who have ridden extensively with Lance have told me that he doped.
Tim Herman, I hope you sleep well. Enjoy the money now sucking Lance’s a$$ because eternity is a long time for the place you’re going…
Anybody speak Spanish?
Follow link for LA’s secret ingredient.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1471797#poststop
March 26th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Dear Tim Herman,
I just finished From Lance to Landis. In the author’s note Walsh mentions about 100 people. In addition to Walsh and Betsy Andreu, you have a lot of liars to sue. You probably should be getting to work on the lawsuit. Btw, my training is stalled and I’d like to know if you could ask Lance about the timing and dosage for r EPO and if he has recommendations for any other helpful medical products. No bovine hemoglobin, but I think he has some experience with Actovegin.(sp?)
By the way, me and Dirk are working on a new series of films and if Lance is ever in the SFV tell him to stop by the set and maybe we can have him do a couple of scenes. We usually take a couple of shots to help with endurance. Sorry to disappoint but porn is fake too.. At any rate if he’s in the valley we could hook him up with hookers and blow…
Sincerely,
Reid Rothchild
July 11th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Where did Tim herman go? Is he like April, in like a lion, out like a lamb?
And Tim, could you please explain how a clean rider could beat the best riders on the world while on the best performance enhancing drugs available at the time (Ullrich, Pantani, etc.)?
This is physiologically impossible.
Also, why can’t Dr. Coyle produce any of the data that he allegedly collected for his study of Lance’s allegedly unique physiology wherein he stated that Lance’s performance improvement could be attributed to an increase in efficiency (a claim that seems prima fascia utterly false–if it were possible to increase performance by 3% through improving efficiency, it would stand to reason that other pro cyclists might pursue this as a training methodology since it’s VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE for an elite athlete in his prime to squeeze those kinds of gains out of changing the biomechanics of a repetitive motion he’s trained for decades. Talk to any top physiologist or even the trainer for the local community college table tennis team–just ain’t gonna happen).
Well Tim, since you elected to jump into the fray (undoubtedly on the demand of your employer–and we should believe you, yet another person riding Lance’s coattails and being paid to defend his public image as a neutral trustworthy expert on this because. . .why? You’ve really pulled a page from the McCain/Phil Gramm messaging playbook here.)
Anyway, you elected to join this conversation, clearly to make an ad hominem attack on A MIDWESTERN HOUSEWIFE WHO HAS NOTHING TO GAIN FROM STATING HER EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE, and then you run away.
That’s how 4-year-old girls fight, Tom.
Can’t you, and Lance, do just a little bit better than that?
It’s getting harder and harder for you to contain what many people in the cycling world have already concluded: there’s no way in h e double hockey sticks that Lance won seven Tours straight clean.
David Millar, who was banned from pro cycling for two years for doping, was never caught using epo. He admitted to it only after the cops raided his house. So why should anyone even give Lance’s assertions that he never failed a drug test (again, utterly false, see David Walsh’s book for the details) any consideration as proof he didn’t dope?
His results speak for themselves. He beat the best riders in the world at the time WHILE THEY WERE DOPED OUT OF THEIR GOURDS. Not possible!
Oh, and everyone who is out waving the anticancer flag, yeah, cancer sucks, but how does it jive with Lance’s anticancer crusade when he dates two Hollywood starlets back to back who are both smokers? Is that part of Living Strong?
L’eggo your ego, brah, and go spank some skins with McConaughey