City Desk

Barnum & Bailey & Davis

Yesterday, Rep. Tom Davis was among the lawmakers demanding further investigation of Miguel Tejada.

Davis et al want to know if Tejada lied when he said he didn't use performance enhancing drugs. Pretty soon, they're going to get a chance to entrap Roger Clemens.

Well, if Congress has decided that the sports world is where the government's investigative powers are most needed, and is so eager to turn its hearings into episodes of "Moment of Truth,", and is really intent on clearing up questions about who's using what performance enhancers, well, why stop with Tejada and Clemens?

Why stop with baseball?

Why not go after the Biggest Kahuna of all the alleged drug cheats: Lance Armstrong?

Unlike Tejada, Armstrong has represented America and been named to various White House panels.

By the evidentiary standard used in the Mitchell Report — where, basically, if one hanger on says you're guilty, you're guilty — Armstrong looks a helluva lot guiltier than Clemens.

So let's really get this show going. Bring in Lance Armstrong and put him under oath.

Or, better yet, stop the circus...

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  • http://www.dailypeloton.com Zemora

    And the funniest thing about LeMond's claim is that he seems to think doping became widespread during his decline. If you read Walsh's book, you will know that the major accusations against Lance's USPS team is that of blood doping. So when did this begin? Not in 1991.

    In fact, the United States olympic cycling team was involved in a blood doping scandal in 1984, before LeMond ever won his first Tour.

  • Duque

    Sean,

    Greg Lemond won his last Tour de France 9 years before Lance Armstrong won his first. EPO became widespread in 1991. Indurain was the first winner to use it, all of Banesto used EPO. EPO changed doping. A clean rider had no hope anymore.

  • Contre Le Montre

    As always, the hatred and vitriol that is spewed whenever Mrs. Andreu speaks is mind-blowing. Here's what we know -

    1. Lance Armstrong won 7 tours.
    2. Where there's smoke there's fire and he probably had some help. Maybe EPO, Steroids, HGH and monkey blood.
    3. His foundation has raised $270 Million and via his lobbying efforts $3 BILLION.
    4. I've just buried a great friend, mother of 2, and fantastic wife after a prolonged battle with leukemia.

    Perhaps Lance is the devil-incarnate. Lucifer who cycles among us, but if his efforts bring about a cure or some comfort to others where is the harm? Please tell me.

    Let it go, Mrs Andreu because God-forbid you should ever have to suffer the pain of losing Mr. Andreu or one of your children to this dreadful disease. What a great irony it will be if, in say 5 -10 years, one of your loved ones is cured via research funded by the LAF.

    Let's say for the sake of argument you WIN. Lance is brought before a court in handcuffs, tarred and feathered and exiled to Greenland. There are literally THOUSANDS of patients in cancer wards throughout the world who use "It's Not About the Bike" as their motivational tool for recovery who will lose all hope. IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE AFTER? Will that make you feel vindicated? Hurray! I showed all those bald people that are hooked up to Chemo drips what a fraud their hero is. Congratulations. Could you be any more selfish? Shut up and let them believe. We both know there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, et al. but can we all agree that, regardless, the belief in these "Icons" has brought alot of joy to children throughout the world? Is that sooooo terrible.

    Mrs. Andreu, I'm certain this entire business has caused you an amazing amount of pain and suffering. I'm certain you're probably spot on with your accusations. Do you truly think you're making the world a better place by de-frocking Lance Armstrong and kicking the chair out from under the LAF?

    Sometimes being right isn't.

  • Sean in Nashville

    Duque,

    You said:

    "Greg Lemond won his last Tour de France 9 years before Lance Armstrong won his first. EPO became widespread in 1991. Indurain was the first winner to use it, all of Banesto used EPO. EPO changed doping. A clean rider had no hope anymore."

    That's all fine and dandy. But it lends nothing to Betsy's hypothesis that only dopers can beat other dopers. Take EPO out of the equation. Prior to EPO, it was other PEDs. You can't just come out and say "Lance was doping because everyone else was doping, and he couldn't beat other dopers unless HE was doping, too"...

    ...while at the same time believing that Greg LeMond is the only clean winner, ever, in the Tour, because, using Betsy's hypothesis, to believe that you'd also have to believe that no other top-tier riders were doping during Greg's era.

    Fine, EPO changed doping, as you say...but what's being accepted as fact here is that Greg could beat all of the dopers of his era because they were "just" using amphetimines and other magic dust, and not EPO.

    Doesn't that make Greg sound MORE super-human than Lance?

    Betsy's Logic: Clean Greg CAN beat dopers; clean Lance CANNOT beat dopers.

    This particular argument doesn't hold water.

  • Betsy Andreu

    Sean, I didn't say that - I merely pointed out a fact.

    Because people do good should not preclude them from being held accountable for actions that are questionable or downright wrong - especially when it involves hurting other people.

  • Robert Garford

    HI Betsy,

    Thanks for the reply. I was lead to belive through a cycling magazine at the time that it was doping - related.In fact the magazine said something to the effect that he, and the rest if the usps team would chase down every one of his attacks - putulance AND hypocrisy. If it was as simple as a clash of personalities then why tear shreds off him (Virenque) in his Tour diaries? Keep it to yoursefl for heavens sake. Your husband must be a real class act.

    RG

  • Betsy Andreu

    Frankie is a real class act. Ask anyone in cycling not associated with lance and you'll get nothing but positive feedback regarding Frankie.
    Your attempt to berate Frankie is futile. He didn't and hasn't pointed fingers to anyone's doping. He testified against lance and that was the only person he has ever said doped. He didn't spew what he knows about others. So you are correct: he is a class act. Thanks, we agree on something.

  • Robert Garford

    Hi Betsy,

    I doubt that classy people tear other people to shreds just becasue they have a 'clash in personalities'.

    As much as I don't like Frankie (gee, maybe a clash in personality?) I have never had the urge to tarnish his name on any of the many cycling message boards (like, say, the DP forums)present on the internet. Then again, im am not a cyclist so I dont have the insider knowledge that he is indeed a nice guy at heart! I have my doubts!
    Nevertheless, continually standing up for your husband is admirable on your part even if it does suggest that he himself lack some cajones.

    Peace
    RG

  • Betsy Andreu

    That's the beautiful thing about living here: you have the freedom to opine and tear Frankie to shreds. Your thoughts of him are insignificant to him. That's why he's not posting. I'll let it rest when I say I don't really care either. So post away now.
    Peace

  • Frank

    Sean in nashville. You are correct that doping did exist in pro cycling, going back 40 years. But your argument that the doping effects were the same simply isn't supported by fact. As others have pointed out, the typical doping regimen before 1990 was amphetamines, testosterone, and plain old painkillers/narcotics. EPO was released in the marketplace in 1989, and probably took a few years before it found use in athletics. The '90s were the heyday of EPO, with riders routinely testing with hematocrits levels between 50 and 60. That is where the dramatic doping effect occurred. Popping amphetamines or pain killers won't win you a 3 week Tour, and will do nothing to increase your oxygen carrying capacity. Dramatically boosting your hematocrit will.

    Once the EPO test was implemented (2001/2002), the teams (who now had full time medical staffs- something unheard of in the '80s) started using actual blood infusions, micro-dosing of epo with masking agents, or synthetic substances designed to increase oxygen capacity. Lemond had one of the highest VO2max measurements ever recorded (92). Armstrong's was around 80-83 (depending on which Dr. Coyle article you read). So yes, Greg was more superhuman than Lance. And yes, after '91, the riders' hematocrit levels jumped. And it wasn't from iron supplements.

  • TFF

    Betsy,

    Thank you! As a fan of cycling for over 15 years, I want to see the sport cleaned up and you are doing so much to uncover the reality of doping in professional cycling. I follow cycling every day, and post on 3 of the major forums, and you and your husband have a great deal of support. Keep telling the truth! We may never have a completely clean peloton, but the systematic super doping is coming unraveled, and we all have to keep pushing.

    Sean in Nashville: read this, it should answer your questions: http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html

    Robert: you know nothing about cycling or Frankie, yet somehow you feel free to post your ignorant drivel? Save it for DP, I am sure there are many there who will appreciate your uninformed opinions.

    DeCanio: Keep uncovering!

  • Robert Garford

    TFF

    It isn't ignorant drivel at all and I happen to know a fair bit about cycling myself - being a fan for 30 odd years.

    I totally agree with Betsy re: Lance Armstrong - for sure this guy doped himself to the max. It is absurd that some people still think he's clean - those are the ignorant fans that know nothing about cycling.

    ROB

  • TFF

    Robert,
    You tarnish someone you don't know personally and you don't ride. I suggest maybe changing both of those things, and then you might be taken seriously regarding your opinions. Otherwise, your post regarding Frankie is no better than what you accuse him of being, classless. Actually, I suggest riding because it is the greatest activity known to mankind, but I am a little biased about that.

  • TFF

    And actually, I hit a 1 instead of a 2 (they are next to each other), and it should have read 25 years.

  • Robert Garford

    TFF

    Your post is riddled with errors-

    >You tarnish someone you don’t know personally

    No, I only said that I didn't 'like' him in response to Betsy. Must be a clash of personalities or something eh!? haha

    > you don’t ride

    taken out of context. It was meant to read - I am not a >pro I suggest riding because it is the greatest activity known to mankind

    'One of the', for sure

    >And actually, I hit a 1 instead of a 2 (they are next to each other), and it should have read 25 years.

    Riiiiiiiiiight ;)

  • TFF

    "If it was as simple as a clash of personalities then why tear shreds off him (Virenque) in his Tour diaries? Keep it to yoursefl for heavens sake. Your husband must be a real class act."

    See the difference is that FA knew Virenque, you don't KNOW Mr. Andreu. See the difference? I would suggest that within the context of the word "tarnish," your comment fits.

    And irrespective of whether you believe the mistake I made, 15 or 25 (I started when many did, during the era of Lemond, so 21 years to be precise) is irrelevant to the point that you made statements about someone without really knowing what you were talking about. I am merely suggesting that you should be more careful in character assassination attempts.

  • TFF

    "taken out of context. It was meant to read - I am not a >pro I suggest riding because it is the greatest activity known to mankind"

    Riiiiiiiiiight

  • Robert Garford

    TFF

    Nice try, but alas you fail again.

    I don't know FA personally (and I suggest that he wouldn't know Virenque personally either). I do however know that FA is a petulant hypocrit. Virenque on the other hand is a liar, but he doesnt point the finger on others like FA does and comes over as a much nicer person in general.

    The "I am not a cyclist " was in repsonse to Betsy saying "Ask anyone in cycling not associated with lance and you’ll get nothing but positive feedback regarding Frankie" - clearly she was refering to the pro ranks. So nice try at discrediting me. keep trying.

  • TFF

    Really, he didn't know him personally? You'd think that riding around Europe racing together, they might run into one another at some point. You know, the law of averages. Me, I actually met Frankie once, not in a way that would give me insight into his psyche, but he was very nice none the less.

    Yea, keep trying there hypo. I'll believe the riding story any day now.

  • Robert Garford

    TFF , you really are tiresome.

    RV does not speak English and is therefore unlikely to know him personally as you suggest. There are thousands of cyclists and each one of those do no know the others 'personally'.

    Lol, go back to your Floyd discussion board on the DP - you seem to like fairytales - or maybe it because your a relative newcomer to the sport ;-)

  • TFF

    You don't know him personally, but you know that he is a "petulant hypocrite?" That is not "tarnishing" to him? I am simply suggesting that your harsh condemnation of a man you do not know is inappropriate, unless you happen to be close with Virenque. I could understand that. I could also understand if you have some personal anecdotes that would shed him in a different light. However, I would say that neither of those two things are true, and that you should just quit while you are behind.

  • TFF

    I like the fairytale that Floyd tested positive for testosterone? No, I am pretty sure he tested positive...yep, very sure. Have you actually followed the Landis case?

    That is beside the point, and not germane to this topic.

    Yea, you have 9+ years on me, but I am sensing that your kung-fu powers are not as strong as mine. Really, I suggest that you just stop...really......stop.

  • TFF

    "RV does not speak English and is therefore unlikely to know him personally as you suggest. There are thousands of cyclists and each one of those do no know the others ‘personally’."

    And there are thousands of people who have opinions based on nothing but their opinion...you know...like you. I also hear that we each have an....well, just look in the mirror and come up with the euphemism for your reflection.

  • Robert Garford

    Yap, yap, yap

    tiresome

    RG

  • TFF

    Kung-fu master says: "One who does not wish to have his buttocks handed to him, should not present buttocks in first place, shamma lamma lamma ding dong"

  • Robert Garford

    Kung-fu master says: “One who does not wish to have his buttocks handed to him, should not present buttocks in first place, shamma lamma lamma ding dong”

    hahaha deluded AND tirseome
    lmfao

  • TFF

    Yea, lets call it a truce...you know, the kind where you admit that you look like a moron and continued to defend your moronity (that isn't a word) even thought it is obvious that you are a....well for lack of a better word...moron, and I continue to be bemused by your inability to actually think your way out of a paper bag.

  • TFF

    Actually, if you would like to continue this, bring it over here http://www.cyclingforums.com/f30-grand-tours---giro---tour-de-france---vuelta-a-españa.html

    I am going to stop urinating on this discussion as now, this is a personal insultathon that has nothing to do with the topic. However, I would love to keep making you look ridiculous if you are game. I have nothing but time and IQ to spend..

  • Robert Garford

    Yap yap yap

    your cycling knowledge is obviously as limited as your tiny pea-sized brain.Why dont you go over to the DP and fantasize about Floyd.

    RG

  • Scott

    Robert Garford-
    Sorry to break it to you but Richard Virenque does speak a little english, and also when you are a top pro living in Europe,and racing in France, you tend to pick up the language.

  • Reid Rothchild

    http://community.active.com/blogs/MartinDugard/2007/06

    Floyd told Martin Dugard last June 07 that Lance Doped.

    My buddy Austin Murphy told me weeks ago about the pre-Tour piece he was working on, but swore me to secrecy until it came out. Ah, but now we can talk. A great piece on doping at the Tour, pointing a lot of fingers at Lance Armstrong, in particular. Two very accomplished cyclists who have ridden extensively with Lance have told me that he doped.

    Tim Herman, I hope you sleep well. Enjoy the money now sucking Lance's a$$ because eternity is a long time for the place you're going...

    Anybody speak Spanish?
    Follow link for LA's secret ingredient.

    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1471797#poststop

  • Reid Rothchild

    Dear Tim Herman,

    I just finished From Lance to Landis. In the author's note Walsh mentions about 100 people. In addition to Walsh and Betsy Andreu, you have a lot of liars to sue. You probably should be getting to work on the lawsuit. Btw, my training is stalled and I'd like to know if you could ask Lance about the timing and dosage for r EPO and if he has recommendations for any other helpful medical products. No bovine hemoglobin, but I think he has some experience with Actovegin.(sp?)

    By the way, me and Dirk are working on a new series of films and if Lance is ever in the SFV tell him to stop by the set and maybe we can have him do a couple of scenes. We usually take a couple of shots to help with endurance. Sorry to disappoint but porn is fake too.. At any rate if he's in the valley we could hook him up with hookers and blow...

    Sincerely,

    Reid Rothchild

  • Tom Everheart

    Where did Tim herman go? Is he like April, in like a lion, out like a lamb?

    And Tim, could you please explain how a clean rider could beat the best riders on the world while on the best performance enhancing drugs available at the time (Ullrich, Pantani, etc.)?

    This is physiologically impossible.

    Also, why can't Dr. Coyle produce any of the data that he allegedly collected for his study of Lance's allegedly unique physiology wherein he stated that Lance's performance improvement could be attributed to an increase in efficiency (a claim that seems prima fascia utterly false--if it were possible to increase performance by 3% through improving efficiency, it would stand to reason that other pro cyclists might pursue this as a training methodology since it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE for an elite athlete in his prime to squeeze those kinds of gains out of changing the biomechanics of a repetitive motion he's trained for decades. Talk to any top physiologist or even the trainer for the local community college table tennis team--just ain't gonna happen).

    Well Tim, since you elected to jump into the fray (undoubtedly on the demand of your employer--and we should believe you, yet another person riding Lance's coattails and being paid to defend his public image as a neutral trustworthy expert on this because. . .why? You've really pulled a page from the McCain/Phil Gramm messaging playbook here.)

    Anyway, you elected to join this conversation, clearly to make an ad hominem attack on A MIDWESTERN HOUSEWIFE WHO HAS NOTHING TO GAIN FROM STATING HER EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE, and then you run away.

    That's how 4-year-old girls fight, Tom.

    Can't you, and Lance, do just a little bit better than that?

    It's getting harder and harder for you to contain what many people in the cycling world have already concluded: there's no way in h e double hockey sticks that Lance won seven Tours straight clean.

    David Millar, who was banned from pro cycling for two years for doping, was never caught using epo. He admitted to it only after the cops raided his house. So why should anyone even give Lance's assertions that he never failed a drug test (again, utterly false, see David Walsh's book for the details) any consideration as proof he didn't dope?

    His results speak for themselves. He beat the best riders in the world at the time WHILE THEY WERE DOPED OUT OF THEIR GOURDS. Not possible!

    Oh, and everyone who is out waving the anticancer flag, yeah, cancer sucks, but how does it jive with Lance's anticancer crusade when he dates two Hollywood starlets back to back who are both smokers? Is that part of Living Strong?

    L'eggo your ego, brah, and go spank some skins with McConaughey

  • Speeder

    LeMond could sustain about 5.8 watts per kilo of bodyweight for 1-hour. Thats a funtional Threshold Power of 390 watts. That requires about 5.4 liters of sustained oxygen and a VO2 max of about 6.5 liters/minute. We know this from his 42:30 on Alp D'Huez and his statement's from using SRM power meters in the early 90s. SO he had a VO2 max of 94 for those efforts.

    Lance had 6.7 watts per kilo for 35 minutes, and likely 6.5 watts per kilo for 1-hour. He needs about 6.0 liters/min of sustained oxygen consumption to do this!! That takes a VO2 max of about 7.5 liters/min. 7,500 ml of oxygen at a weight of 74kg is about 101 VO2 max.

    A 101 VO2 max is ONLY possible with chemo boosters, Interlukins and peptoid hormones, certainly not without modern day assistance. AND.... They HAVE to be a super-responder to drug-therepy. You dont get from an 78 completely un-doped VO2 potential to a 101 without being a super-responder to the drugs. Use some resoning folks.

    Lance's highest ever un-doped, VO2 max test in sep. 1999 was 81.7 at a weight of 79 kilos. That in FACT was the highest he ever got. Now... You have heart stroke volume, but Lance's heart is normal sized... If one is to look at the medical records they show his heart is high normal... So discounting the whole larger than life heart, he needs some serious assistance to do 1/20th of what he's done.... ANYONE human ON EARTH needs so serous F- assistance to do a 101 VO2 max and 500 watts for 1-hour....

    Totally un-doped, using the highest ever VO2 max... He'd do about 75 place, and he'd struggle to recover and maybe get dropped and DNF.

    LeMond degenerated to not being able to get through six stages in 1994 when Chechini, Ferrari, and the other doctors started up their hGh, testosterone, EPO, PFC; pez dispencer.... and he had an un-doped VO2 max of over 90 even in old age he still does.... I dont think LeMond blood-doped because sh$t, I could get up to that w/kg if I was jacked.... And I'm just some hack....

    If LeMond jacked he'd of had higher than 95 and we would have record or physical proof of it.

  • http://www.lost-in-beijing.com Lost Blogger

    Another series of banter between Ari and Eric and turle with a love interest at last!

  • http://www.cyclingfitness.net Cycling Coach

    Reading through all of this puts into perspective the non decreasing hct blood values from lance during the 2009 Tour and his suddeen need to take a shower when the surprise drug tester turned up. Thank you Betsy et al for your insights.

  • http://www.sinopguide.gen.tr Sinop Rehberi

    thank you perfec web site

  • http://www.facebook.com/snippetme Kary Ockerman

    Hey there just wanted to give you a brief heads up and let you know a few of the images aren't loading correctly. I'm not sure why but I think its a linking issue. I've tried it in two different web browsers and both show the same outcome.

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