Comments on: Tour de Hypocrisy

By: Powertap Coach

Powertap Coach — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:14:09 +0000

Its interesting looking back at this article now that the Trek v Lemond court case has been played out. As far as I can tell Greg gets his bike rights back, Greg gets cash, Greg’s charity gets cash and Greg can still talk about the doping problem that still ravages cycling.
Not such a crackpot as some would make him out to be afterall. And all this after Lance's blood values from the 2009 TdF show some very regular consistencies with microtransfusions. The only thing we know for sure - cycling is currently a very dirty sport and even the much vaunted biopassport doesn't seem able to fix this.

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By: Matt Wood

Matt Wood — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:10:55 +0000

I wanted to post the same comment you originally regarding the Jenkins piece on the Post website. I thought it was unfair of her to mention Bonds and not Armstrong as examples of American Sports cheaters. Since she is a sports reporter that wrote two books for him and has been completely silent on the doping in cycling story. Now you surely realize that any mention of LA as a cheater brings out a testy debate between the believer/hater crowd.

Tyler's name resurfaced in the Operation Puerto doping scandel as well so basically he has been caught twice. The way it worked on the USPS/Discovery Cycling Team was that Dr. Ferrari was not allowed to work with any of LA's competitors but could work with team members like Hamilton. Once Hamilton went to another team he had to find a new doping doctor. Thus his name turns up in the Operation Puerto docs, which is run by Dr. Fuentes.

By: Dave McKenna

Dave McKenna — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:19:28 +0000

Matt Wood:
Thanks for those stats, and for bringing up Tyler Hamilton. of all the dopers in cycling, tyler hamilton, lance armstrong's trusted teammate, was my all time favorite.

a few years ago, hamilton failed the Homologous Blood Transfusion Test (HBTT), used to detect the presence of somebody else's blood in your system. forget testing positive for EPO or steroids or HGH. this guy, in effect, TESTED POSITIVE FOR LANCE ARMSTRONG!

how grotesque is that?

like most folks, i believe that no matter how clean his pee pee was, what armstrong did is amazing. i just hope he pays his street team well for all the attack work they still do on his behalf, given how little they have to work with. heck, when this all started, i thought i was writing about sally jenkins...

By: Matt Wood

Matt Wood — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:20:32 +0000

American cycling fans can basically be divided into Lance believers and Lance haters. From my perspective the most damming evidence against Lance was his secret 5 year association with known doping doctor, Michele Ferrari. Anyone working with such a "doctor" is a cheat in my mind. You don't work with this guy to improve your interval training. Sophisticated blood doping is best done through the use of "doping doctor" and those that are willing to pay (i.e. Lance and Tyler Hamilton) get results. Vinokourov worked with this guy and look what happened to him.

Some other data I found interesting is a list of the podium finishers from 1995 forward. I think it speaks for itself.

TDF PODIUM FINISHERS

1995
1. Miguel Indurain
2. Alex Zulle (Festina – EPO)
3. Bjarne Ris (EPO admitted)

1996
1. Bjarne Ris – (EPO admitted)
2. Jan Ullrich – (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Richard Vrenque (EPO, Festina caught)

1997
1. Jan Ullrich (Blood doping, caught)
2. Richard Virenque (EPO, caught)
3. Marco Pantani (60% hematocrit - suspected drug cheat)

1998
1. Marco Pantani (60% hematocrit - suspected drug cheat)
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Bobby Julich

1999
1. Lance Armstrong (EPO, 6 positive blind samples later ID’ed as LA’s)
2. Alex Zulle (Festina, EPO caught)
3. Fernando Escartin

- Test for recombinant EPO developed -

2000
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Joseba Beloki (Operation Puerto, blood doping)

2001
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Joseba Beloki (Operation Puerto, blood doping)

2002
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Joseba Beloki (Operation Puerto, blood doping)
3. Rainondas Rumsas (HGH, caught)

2003
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Alexander Vinokourov (Blood doping caught)

2004
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Andreas Kloden
3. Ivan Basso (Blood Doping, caught)

2005
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Ivan Basso (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)

2006
1. Floyd Landis (Testosterone, caught)
2. Oscar Pereiro
3. Andreas Kloden

Results
36 finishers

23 known dopers (excluding LA)
64% of the podium finishers were known dopers

30 known dopers (including LA)
83% of podium finishers were known dopers

By: Chimpanzee Rage

Chimpanzee Rage — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:12:42 +0000

Wow...this is one awesome thread. I, for one, agree with Dave, but then again, I really dont like Sally's work despite her acclaim. This is a fantastic argument though, the blind passion from Lance's fan base is amazing. I only wish I saw read Jenkins' column earlier and wrote the same thing. Kudos!

-Chimp

By: Dave McKenna

Dave McKenna — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:19:22 +0000

Steve Klein et al: you're still testing positive for negativity, but the attacks have grown as tired as Floyd Landis in the Alps. you know, just before he had that testosterone windfall. again, as lance would want me to, i'm obligated to go after all doubters in this thread, but it's getting very un-fun. Stephen Hildreth, just hours after you're boasting how, bum finger and all, you'd whup up on barry bonds, you come at me with "OMG - I just can't do this!"? i recommend you take a couple doses of whatever all the big-name Tour de France riders of late have been ingesting or injecting, and get back to the insults. it'll be just like riding a bike...

By: Steve Klein

Steve Klein — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:49:35 +0000

Dave,
The tone of your response, as well as your continued half-truths are disappointing, as others have stated here. A column is not an excuse to write irresponsibly.
Your original column needed a good editor. The City Paper is as much at fault for that as you. But I understand the realities of media and staffing these days, and from what I read about your new owners, it isn't likely that they're going to be adding copy editors to clean up your mess. I'm sure they're pleased with the response the item is receiving in your blog.
As for the blog item's inaccuracies, well, that can be (but doesn't have to be) the nature of blogs. It's more a matter of personal integrity and probably comes closest to defining a writer (and in this case, I assume, a reporter).
Your lack of respect for your readers is pretty obvious.
Your lack of respect for Sally Jenkins is pretty obvious.
Bottom line for me is that I've tried, as have some other readers, to add something to your discussion of doping, drugs and whether Lance Armstrong deserves to be painted with the same broad brush. A number of readers are listening. You aren't.
So I won't continue to waste my time here with you.
Thanks to Steven Hildreth for his post and for doing the research that allowed him to provide some facts to his argument. You can learn from him.
Maybe we should be reading Steven Hildreth in the City Paper (in a blogging sense, we are). Got a blog, Steve? I could better use my time reading it than Dave McKenna.

By: Donna Frey

Donna Frey — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 07:24:04 +0000

Mr. McKenna, I'm another cycling fan who is just so tired of reading half-informed rants disguised as journalism. If you bother to really read up on cycling and Lance Armstrong.....oh, what's the use. Several people have explained the facts carefully and logically, and you manage to evade understanding. I suspect it is because you are one of those people who can't acknowledge a mistake, and will go to any length to deny you are wrong. Lance Armstrong has too many fans for you to get away with bashing him just to sell your column. Pick on someone else. Or, this would be a first for you, admit you're wrong and apologize to Lance and your readers. Nah, never happen.

By: Steven Hildreth

Steven Hildreth — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:23:53 +0000

daiv,
get your clutch checked, man. you're slipping pretty bad. i will waste just two more minutes of my life, typing with ..|.. finger, for the sake of anybody else who reads this--you I have written off.
note how daiv so accurately countered each point...OMG, I just can't do this. I am astounded you have a job, daiv. maybe your next piece should be how every single person afflicted with testicular cancer is guilty of steroid use. nothing else causes it, right?

By: Tina

Tina — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 03:33:51 +0000

DAVE, LAUGHING HERE...AMAZING HOW SO MANY THINGS SEEM TO OFFEND YOU, EVEN MY CAPS DO! LET IT GO BUDDY , LET IT GO!!!