Message to Vick: Try Idaho.
Media reports on Michael Vick's indictment on charges related to running a dog-fighting operation invariably mention that yes, dog fighting is illegal, and yes, it's a felony in 48 states.
I've never seen an organized dogfight, but since reading A Feast of Snakes by Harry Crews a few years back, I've spent more than a normal amount of time trying to locate one.
According to a Humane Society fact sheet, a person's best bet might be Idaho. In Idaho, running and watching a dogfight is a misdemeanor, as it is in Wyoming. But in Idaho, unlike Wyoming, possession of dogs for fighting is also legal.
In both states, however, stashing weed in your water bottle remains against the law.
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3:43 pm
So Idaho's state slogan should be,
"Welcome, Assholes of the World"?
Or maybe:
"Our Mutilated Drugged-Up Monster Dogs Are As Good as Our Taters"?
Or:
"Dogfights in Idaho: Cause There's Nothing Else to Do."
5:20 pm
this sucks. why would you try to go see dogs being tortured? there's a reason it's illegal everywhere. some laws (against weed, for example) are stupid, but this one isn't.
6:51 pm
Dogs are not exactly being tortured, Dog lover. They fight, often to death, which they are trained to do. The cruel spectacle excites and pleases many. Just like thev sight of human torture or the execution would. Few would admit it though.
Dog-fighting is by no means a gentleman’s pastime or business. That said, compared to many deeds done in this town, the cruel sport may seem as innocent and civilized as, say, a game of scrabble.
Besides, the last I heard Idaho is a representative democracy. If its folks' representatives chose to view such actiion as a misdemeanor, let them them have it.
12:35 pm
I understand that the spoiled hipsters of the metro area may be eager to enjoy the camp of the other America, but the depiction of dog fighting in a book does no justice to this barbaric practice. Dogs used for fighting are neglected and abused since puppyhood. Their daily lives are isolated, consisting of a heavy chain, a plastic barrel for a house, and a puddle of mud. They live in their own filth and are lucky to eat on a daily basis.
When they are forced into the fighitng pit, fights can last for hours, with many dogs enduring open wounds and broken bones. Dogs who win may receive armchair vet care. Dogs who lose? Read the entire Michael Vick indictment to find out. Any practice that involves electrocution, bait animals, and rape stands should be seen for the atrocity that it is.
While I can appreciate the value of our freedoms in the US, a posting like this is out of touch at best and unbelieveably irresponsible at worst. Suggesting dog fighting is a worthy entertainment to be sought out is a real disappointment to this City Paper reader. I hope in the future that postings about animal cruelty will be portrayed as the savage, neanderthal, and properly illegal activities that they are.
12:47 pm
Awww, snippity SNAP!
8:18 am
Dogs in these fights are often left with broken bones, heavy bleeding, ruptured lungs, and other serious injuries. And after that, the ones who lose are often killed -- and this is all so certain humans can get their kicks. So you're hoping to see that, and have been trying to find a fight to see? To write this post without knowing what happens at a dogfight is just ignorant; to write it with a true picture of what goes on at a dogfight is just sick.
2:00 pm
"[C]ompared to many deeds done in this town, the cruel sport may seem as innocent and civilized as, say, a game of scrabble."
Hell yeah, Ernest. I'm so with you on that..
Why do crimes against dogs always seem to inspire more outrage in people than crimes against people? I'm not pro-dogfighting or anything, but for fuck's sake...
2:47 pm
SarahG: I think that's somewhat of an illusion. If you compare the news coverage of (and gov't & private money spent fighting) the abuse/ rape/murder of humans to that of abuse of animals, there's little doubt which we really put more focus on and are more concerned about.
I do know what you mean, though: animal abuse tends to bring out a kind of public hysteria. I think there's a sort of twisted rationale behind it -- i.e. people do this to each other, human beings have free will; animals don't and so human mistreatment of them brings out more outrage. People get more angry over the mistreatment and abuse of children -- more than over mistreatment/ abuse of adults -- and I think that's getting closer to the key issue: Children are powerless before the will and strength of adult humans. Same with animals. I think that's what brings out a sort of primal outraged response: the recognition of another being's powerlessness. Just a thought on the issue you raise.
What bothers *me* about Ernest's post is basically two of his assertions: one, that dogs aren't being tortured. The training that professional dogfighters put these animals through before fights adds up to torture in the mind of anyone who isn't, say, Dick Cheney.
Secondly and more importantly -- related to what you were talking about -- having talked to cops, animal control officers, and ATF agents about this, I can tell you: Many of the other "bad deeds done in this town" -- including homicides -- have been known to happen at professional dogfights. This isn't a crime that happens in a vacuum. An incomplete list of just a few of the suck-ass things connected to dogfighting (most of which have either direct or ripple effects on people):
1) Pit bulls (a naturally loyal dog, and a breed capable of great gentleness when well-trained) are instead trained to fight and kill other animals.
2) This training is done by setting them on live animals, frequently people's stolen pets.
3) Because of the training they go through, even if they're saved from the situation, the fighting dogs usually have to be euthanized.
4) When these dogs end up in animal shelters and take up space there -- because they've been seized as evidence and shelters are *required* to hold them -- that's less space that can be used to house other pets that come in, which often means THOSE pets are euthanized.
5) Professional dogfighters are usually also involved in hardcore drugs,
6) illegal guns,
7) violent gangs,
8) illegal gambling, etc.
I wrote a huge feature on dogfighting last year and one of the cops I talked to told me about an area he worked in Boston's old war zone where the community was held hostage by the gangs and their fighting dogs, who they used to control the block, guard their drugs, and scare residents into silence. When a cooperative effort between cops and the MSPCA shut down the dogfights, the neighborhood became much, much safer.
What troubles me about Joe's original post: I read and love all sorts of underground lit. Hell, one of my favorite novelists, Pinckney Benedict, writes about rural dogfighting regularly. But just as I'm not going to go seek out Stephen King's murderous clowns or Updike’s adulterous yuppies or any of the various murderers, whores, rapists, pederasts, and junkies who populate some of my favorite books, I’m not going to seek out a dogfight. I think that writers’ understandable desire to experience as much of the world as possible in order to feed their craft with fuller understanding—we can blame Papa Hemingway for a lot of this—can occasionally lead to some crappy outcomes.
Just my $1.57. Sorry for the long post.
4:09 pm
Now, Sarah is a poster whose outfit is exceedingly becoming.
Carrie’s sense of latest fashion, on the other hand, renders her appearance somewhat undistinguished by comparison.
4:20 pm
Carrie the Red: Totally--I was definitely thinking more of the hysteria surrounding crimes against dogs--people crimes are definitely the greater focus when it comes to things like news coverage,legislation, organizing, etc. etc., but something about pet abuse inspires this really rabid, fierce reaction in people that I think is unique.
The powerless thing is so on point, but I still think there is this quality that animal lovers posess that is unparalleled when it comes to abuse of their furry friends. This is a very small and unscientific way of measuring reactions, but... I live in Alexandria and if I compare public outcry (measured in letters to the editors of local papers, general chatter around town, and so forth) following the worst case of animal abuse in my city in the last few years to public outcry following the worst case of child abuse, the puppy crime definitely got people angrier. And that makes me angry.
I recognize the ripple effect that something like dogfighting has and I do believe that it's torture. I just think sometimes about how much could be accomplished if people defended children or the homeless or the elderly or whoever with the same sort of foaming-at-the mouth ferociousness with which they defend animals. Or maybe they already do and I just don't know about it or don't notice it as much as I do with animals.
Oh--and I wanna read your dogfighting story!
6:29 pm
Having read many of your posts on this blog, Ernest, I surmise that your idea of haute fashion involves spouting off as often as you can with as little relevant information as possible. I'm tempted to defend SarahG from your flattery, as within a week, you'll surely be posting something insulting on one of her posts, you fickle little butt-boil. Instead, I'll just note that in the version of Scrabble *I've* played, no one has ever ripped my jaw off or electrocuted me at the end of the game. Perhaps you've been playing Hasbro's Grindcore Super Mega ExtrEEEEme Scrabble Death Match 3000 (“26 letters and they all spell PAIN!”)?
SarahG, I totally know where you're coming from -- especially when you throw dog-mad Alexandria into the mix! There are a lot of smart, reasonable animal-friendly people out there, and a lot of stone cold fanatics. It is a very weird relationship we have with animals in this country. Paris Hilton is out buying sexy rain gear for her dog while millions of animals are still going into animal shelters, and the cat lady down the street loves cats so much she has 72 but doesn't notice that 10 are dead and being eaten by the others, and I get three press releases a day for doggie perfume and kitty weight control pills. Throw the meat thing into the mix, and it's cultural schizophrenia at its most bizarre.
I hadn't heard about the Alexandria case, but I hear you on the people thing, and often I find it incredibly depressing. It's like we've come to *expect* people to be complete shits to each other. Maybe it's that everyone has more misanthropy in their hearts than we want to admit, or more apathy. Or maybe helping a dog seems easier and less complicated than helping an abused kid? But you’re right—people get *so* into certain causes, and the animal issue seems to draw out a disproportional number of loonies. Sometimes I think part of it is that tunnel-vision keeps them from total despair—focus on one thing, and you may be able to make some small change. Widen your focus, and there is SO much fucked up in the world that it becomes overwhelming.
But your reaction makes total sense to me, and I have to admit I’ve had it myself: A few years back, I was walking with a colleague downtown and she pointed over to a bench where this old homeless guy was lying passed out (or dead) and covered in newspapers and said, “Do you think he needs help?” and I was about to respond when I realized that she wasn’t pointing at him; she was pointing at a pigeon with a limp who was hobbling around the base of the bench. My tongue had bite marks on it for days afterwards. (But then, part of what makes me feel *better* is that I see how many people at my animal nonprofit DO spend their spare time on other social causes as well: lunches for the homeless, recycling and composting behind the building, fundraising for charity projects overseas).
I don't know ... I struggle with this stuff all the time. But that rabid pro-animal reaction you're talking about is milked for all it's worth. One example I love: When action movies let the audience know that a bad guy is REALLY bad by showing him kill a dog or a kitten. Never mind that he just blew up a plane with a hundred people on it, that kitten-murder *really* showed what an asshole he was!
8:00 pm
Why, Carrie you tedious, long-winded poster,
fart-ridden cloud that threatens to obscure Sarah.
Whose summer dresses are just perfect
for pleasant walks along the river of Potomac at sundown.
United Colors of the Beneton, perhaps.