Scout’s Honor
I saw the Girl Scouts this weekend—tons of them, everywhere. I saw them scribbling notes on each other's T-shirts and trading "S.W.A.P.S.," which the Washington Post informed me are "Special Whatchamacallits Affectionately Pinned Somewhere."
According to the Post, there are an estimated 2.7 million Girl Scouts in America, though the overwhelming majority of them are elementary schoolers. The few that stick with it are often ashamed, the Post says. Macy Gutermuth was a high school sophomore when she "decided to come out of the cookie pantry," Monica Hesse reports.
Well, I'm going to come out of the cookie pantry, too. My name is Jessica Gould and I was a Girl Scout. Well, a Brownie, really. I donned the hideous brown vest and bizarre tie. I said the Brownie pledge and was greedy for all the patches I could get.
But right before I graduated to Girl Scout status, I dropped out. My defection had to do with severe disillusionment, which set in at Bergen Bluestone, a stone-retailing business in my native New Jersey. We went there to earn our geology badge.
Here's the thing. From what I remember, Bergen Bluestone, a kind of warehouse, had lots of rocks. There were Dumpsters overflowing with them. But the trip wasn't an in-depth analysis of all things igneous. It was Kitchen Remodeling 101. We ran our hands over smooth countertops and compared marble to granite. I thought scouting was about community service and the outdoors, not suburban consumerism. And, I'm sure, for many kids it is. But that day at Bergen Bluestone sealed it for me. I threw off my sash and never turned back.
10:50 am
Wow, and I was kicked out of the Boyscouts for popping in the head with a whiffle ball bat a fellow scout.
11:11 am
I think my disillusionment set in when we went "camping" in a motel and "hiking" in a mall. Or maybe it was those damn clothespin caterpillar magnets we had to make. Was anyone else's fridge covered with caterpillars?
12:04 pm
I thought Kim & Jessica too rebellious when I realized their disillusionment was in fact well founded since the scout thing can be viewd as little more than an early training in submission to authority, group mentality, communal nonsense and irrational jingoism.
1:57 pm
And consumerism, Ernest: we always had to buy shit. Arts and crafts shit. Pizza party shit. Camping shit. What a pain. I only made it through the Brownie level.
2:02 pm
"Too rebellious"?? I thought them regular Pinkos, actually. I mean, first that disillusionment with Girl Scouts and the nexct thing you know you read them denounce the American Dream! Intolerable.
2:16 pm
Not just buy shit, *sell* shit. Girl Scouts is trying to train future Avon Ladies. The annual cookie sale was the stuff of nightmares. I was a Brownie in the ‘80s (before pedophiles existed, apparently, so little girls still went door to door to sell). It was especially bad for an embassy brat, because I had to sell cookies in our neighborhood in Holland, to regular Dutch folks who had no idea why a small American nerdlet covered with badges was on their doorstep with a complicated sales chart and photos of cookies they wouldn’t actually receive till months later. My remaining social phobias can likely be traced to those moments trying to explain -- in crippled Dutch – what the hell a Do-Si-Do was.
4:37 pm
Consumerism, to be sure.
But let me say I've never read such one-sided criticism. Surely there's a positive side to the scout movement?
5:20 pm
OK, OK, that's a fair point. Maybe we're being a little cynical here, girls. To be completely honest, I did enjoy the stalking, trapping, and knife-sharpening that helped me obtain my Squirrel Pelts and You badge. There's really no way to top the sight of a bunch of giggling 8 year old girls slicing open a live squirrel. And the badges in Setting Forest Fires, Misunderstanding Folk Art, and Tormenting the Weakest Brownie When the Den Mother's Back is Turned also provided valuable life lessons.
I can say two sincere good things about my scouting experiences: 1) The camping/hiking trips (to real forests, in my case) were fun, and 2) I once made an outdoor cooking device with an empty tuna can and waxed cardboard. That was cool. But really, the best slogan for the GSA would be "Girl Scouts: Not As Homophobic As the Boy Scouts, But Just as Pretty."
5:28 pm
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!!! Girl Scouts (and Boy Scouts) trains tomorrows leaders. Girl Scouts is not ALL refrigerator magnets and cookie sales. It's career exploration, community service, leadership, opportunity, life skills, international travel, building self-esteem in young women, teaching girls to speak their minds and have the courage and conviction to take a stand for themselves and their country. It's about commitment and character. I have, for the last 12 years helped mold girls into wonderful community leaders and advised girls on projects that have made a difference. It's also about Scholarships, college, employment, and making our world a better place to live in. If you had a poor experience in Scouting don't blame the organization as a whole...maybe you had a leader that was not fully trained and mentored, who lead a group of kids who apparently grew up to be critical of one of the worlds most beloved youth organizations.
I had a bad peach yesterday for lunch, maybe we should get rid of all peach trees in the world and make sure another person never has to eat one of those horrible, nasty, vile pieces of fruit again. Get my point!!!
6:42 pm
I think many of you may have Girl Scouts of the USA confused with Boy Scouts of America. Girl Scouts don't gut live squirrels or have "den" mothers, not do we discriminate on the basis of religion, sexual orientation, or stupidity (so that means you all could join!). It's quite easy to make your snide little comments when you really know nothing about the organization today. For instance, did you know that girls in our organiation plan and lead solutions that address real needs in the community, the country, and the world every day? When was the last time any of you created a reading program for migrant workers, started a public garden, collected school supplies for Afghani children, coordinated a teen health fair; or did anything at all for the elderly, environment, abused women and children, animals, and the promotion of peace throughout the world? I doubt any of you nay-sayers have ever lifted a finger to volunteer for anything at all. Some day, when you are in crisis, you may be thanking the deitites for a Girl Scout who reaches out a helping hand.
7:52 pm
chip 67 and homeschooltwins I couldn't have said it better.
10:05 pm
6 boxes of Samoas®, please. Maybe 8.
10:22 pm
Hmm ... somehow you folks accusing us (or me -- I'll take the bulk of the rap here, since I was by far the most snide) of stupidity and lack of social conscience managed to miss the fact that most of what we were complaining about re: the GSA was that OUR experiences with it seemed to not reflect good citizenship, volunteerism, strength of character, or any of the values you tout!
I was a Brownie/scout in three different countries, and the organization I experienced was not the one you describe. But as I mentioned in my post above, I was a scout in the 80's -- that's a good 20 years ago now, if you hadn't noticed. I'm guessing the other women who had similar experiences aren't 10 years old. And I'm perfectly willing to believe the organization has changed. It doesn't change one aspect of what I experienced while in it -- nor does your fiction-laden post change the fact that, while griping certainly took place here, no one here argued for abolishing the Scouts, dumping them in a landfill, or shooting them from a cannon. Just for a reduction in camping trips to the mall.
And, Homeschooltwins, I hate to point this out, but Scouts are not the only folks in the world doing charitable things for others. My guess is if I compiled a list of the charity/activism work the women who've dissed the Scouts here have done, it would be a lengthy one. It always astonishes me that people who disagree with someone on one subject are perfectly willing to decide that person must be utterly valueless. God knows, anyone who doesn't like the Girl Scouts can't have contributed anything decent to the universe! (Isn't that a bit like saying "People who are homeschooled all grow up to be idiots?") Hate to tell you, but cynical sarcasm is often the mask of the most idealistic people around.
Besides, the squirrel we gutted was an Al Qaeda sleeper squirrel.
7:32 am
Granted, today scouting is not what it was b ack in the 60's when I was a scout. But I also know (now) the leaders I had concentrated on crafts and home skills - sewing, decorating, cooking, etc. Today the girls in scouting have the opportunity for so much more, to learn more, to travel more, to learn skills to become the leaders of tomorrow. As a leader who has watched her 3 daughters grow up in the program I have seen this, as a Daisy leader (5 year olds) this year I have seen at a smaller scale. I see girls who were in one of my troops become leaders themselves and share all that they learned in scouting. Yes, we sell cookies - a good part of our families are low income and cookie sales enables the whole troop to participate in in trips and outings. In planning a trip, say an overnight to a museum, the girls have to assist in finguring out expenses,which includes how many boxes of cookies they will need to sell in order to fund this trip for each girl. They brainstorm to figure out ways they can sell these - be it girl sales, booth sales, etc. Now they have learned money skills. Maybe one of the girls is coordinating the parents to car pool or researching the transit methods to get to the said museum. This is leadership skills she is learning. Or maybe they need to sell cookies in order to pay for a camp site where they will go for a weekend to learn outdoor skills and how to get along with each other.
Unfortunately not all leaders "get" the program today either and it is our girls who are missing out. As a council trainer of other leader I can tell you exactly who are the ones who will "hotel camp" and who will run the troop instead of letting the girls learn to plan for themselves but they are few and far between. But you know what - "hotel camping" is not a bad thing either if it is what the girls want. As much as I love camping I dont mind a nice hotel with a pool either.
I would like to challenge those of you who spoke out against the Girl Scout program to take a closer look , get involved with a troop either as a leader or short tem volunteer, and really see what we are all about.
9:57 am
Each troop within Girl Scouts has its own personality and its own ebb and flow. I grew up in a troop where all we did was camp - we camped 10 times my last year as a girl member. My best friend was in troop that loved to trip - they went on about 5-6 big trips of their choice (Mall of America and a cruise were just two!). Our troop experience couldn't have been more different - but they fit the girls in the troops.
The Senior Girl Scouts I currently advise joke we camp more than we have meetings. They are right. But if that is what makes them happy, I'm happy. In just this Girl Scout year, they have volunteered at two Council events, worked April Vacation Camp (giving up their vacation time to volunteer), camped with an inner-city Brownie troop, camped with just their group, earned IPs (badges for older girls) and begun work on their Gold Award. They sold some cookies along the way too. I think that is a pretty good return on what we put in to the program!
There are always things to change about the program - as Kathy said, as a trainer, I see leaders sometimes that just don't get the program. But we're a volunteer organization. We don't know from the start who will be a great leader and who won't. And if no one speaks up in the troop after the leader starts, we don't necessarily know the girls aren't happy.
It's too bad that those of you who participated in GSUSA had poor experiences - GS has so much to offer girls! I'm proud to have been a girl in the organization and prouder still to lead/advise girls in the program. I do it because I believe in what Girl Scouts has to offer. And I've seen my older girls begin to grow and speak up about their involvement of Girl Scouts. When a 10th grader proudly wears her vest to a Boy Scout Court of Awards - that says to me that my girls like being in Girl Scouts and are telling others they are still involved. Maybe as Girl Scouts continues to grow, we'll see more of this.
10:51 am
thanks homeschooltwins: will immediately quit my work with whitman-walker and the clean-up crew in rock creek park to join the scouts. thanks for "showing me the light."
12:25 pm
when i lived with sarah i ate a bunch of thin mints when i was stoned once. that was a pretty good saturday.
12:25 pm
You all should be ashamed of yourselves! It's not the organization that is wrong, it's the way it is delivered. I have a Girl Scout troop in Maine, in the midst of farm country. Last night, during our year end awards ceremony, I recieved a lovely hanging flower basket and a beautiful card from ALL the parents thanking me for giving their children a safe, happy, accepting enviorment for them to grow.
For the posts from disapointed former Girl Scouts, boo hoo to you. So you had a bad leader. Does that give you the right to bash the whole organization? As many have said before, we are volunteers in this organization. We give our time to these girls, and unfortunately some people just don't care enought to give a quality program. Last year my daughter had a leader who did nothing with the girls and many left because they were frustrated. I stepped up this year, became a leader, and have done more with my girls then they have in quite a few years. Maybe all you needed was a different leader to show you a different side of scouting.
12:25 pm
Only pinkie Communists hate the girl scouts!
12:41 pm
Shame, shame, shame, all over the interweb! Man, the only thing i should be ASHAMED of is eating entire boxes of G.S. cookies. And NOT while stoned.
Actually, fuck that. Those cookies, regardless of how you feel about the Scouts, are totally awesome.
So, am I allowed to say that if the Scouts org. is as amazing as its supporters say, shouldn't it be looking into how they chose the crappy leaders that left so many of us hating the Scouts? Or will everybody call me a child- and charity-hating bastard?
1:25 pm
Like anything else, Girl Scout troops are only as good as the leaders. I run a very positive troop. And because we're a self-supporting group, we have to sell items(cookies, calendars, nuts) to support ourselves.
Girl Scouting can help "different" girls fit in. Or open up to the world. We teach girls to TRY to accept other people, ideas and cultures. We show them ways to help in the comunity. Help them grow in positive ways.
But you need to be aware that we are imperfect, just as YOU are.
And please tell me, how do you donate your time and money in an effort to help? Do you see a need, and try to fill it? Or is it just easier to point a finger and complain?
Proud Leader of a GS JR Troop
1:40 pm
I am a Girl Scout Cadette Troop Advisor. I am also an Engineer. My day job is stressful. The girls I work with are my "de-stressers".
One is on the Cheer team and while she loves girl scouts she dislikes the ridicule by some members of her cheer team, but yet she never misses a meeting. When it comes to a consumer related activities, she is there to coordinate it. 'Hiking' at the Mall is just her thing. Scavenger hunt for the best bargain, she is usually the best.
One is a home schooled girl that wants to be a teacher when she grows up. Any opportunity that comes up to work with younger girls, she is there. Babysitting class, first aid, read a story at the library - these are her activities. A younger troop needs help with an activity, she is first on the list.
One is a book lover and writer. Anytime they want to make a special ceremony, the other girls turn to her for a poem. She leads the girls in creating posters and slogans for selling cookies.
One is an athletic star. Softball, Golf, Soccer, you name it, she is out there on the field. However, her sister Girl Scouts are also very important to her. She can't make every Girl Scout event, but she makes the ones that she can and we love to have her. She coordinates the troop event at the water park every summer.
One is the shyest girl you will ever meet. Her parents are having a difficult financial time. But, when doing a troop fundraiser provides her the opportunity to earn money to pay for summer camp - she was all over it. Manned the booth all day and spoke with complete strangers about her desire to go to summer camp and ride horses. Even though, due to her financial status, she could have a scholarship for summer camp. She want's that money to go to a girl that really needs it.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I was a Girl Scout in the '70's. There were activities I loved and those I didn't. But the memories of my personal growth were what brought me to work with a troop.
1:51 pm
Dude... who knew so many girl scouts read the city paper? I have a question for the troop leaders out there... when teaching young girls to try to accept one another, are they taught the value of using "I" messages for effective communication? A few young women wrote earnest thoughts about some negative experiences they had with the scouts, and the responses have called their philanthropy, sense of community and volunteerism into question. I never thought negatively of the scouts until I saw some of these responses, but I can hardly think positively of something that villifies and marginalizes people for having a bad experience rather than engaging in constructive dialogue.
2:08 pm
Not only shame, but sincerity! Sincerity has invaded the CP blog! Run away! Run away! SHAME!!! ON!!! YOU!!! Shame is being doled out left and right! Have the Scouts turned Catholic all of a sudden?? Is there an advanced badge in Shaming?
(Look on the bright side, K: At least you don't need a hand-mirror to get to hatin' on this one. And knucks on the cookie thing: I have to hide Samoas in a colleague's office in order to not eat an entire box in a sitting. I would speculate that the GSA puts crack in them, but god only knows who would show up to finger-wag then.)
It's terrific that posters here are out serving as leaders to young girls/women. Props to all of you for doing it; I'm sure you're making a difference. But there's no need to feel threatened by the fact that other women had a negative impression way back when, and there's no need to dole out Buckets of Molten Shame to those who experienced something different. Our experiences don't denigrate yours, or those of the girls you're helping.
And honestly, what exactly should we be ashamed of -- that when we were little girls, an experience that was supposed to be rewarding and empowering turned out not to be because the adults in charge were phoning it in? So not only did we get screwed on the Most Magical Transformative Feminine Leadership Experience Ever, we're now supposed to feel ashamed about saying that our experiences were not up to par? So much for the Girl Scouts letting women find their voices, eh -- or does that only apply when those voices are a unified hallelujah for the Scouts? I think the GSA can survive a few dissenters, but let us know if these cheeky bloggings cause the organization to collapse.
(Gotta say, it's impressive how many scout-supporters have piled on to the CP blog ... I bet the CP site hasn't seen so many scouts since Savage did his "I Was An Eagle-Scout Bottom" piece a few years back.)
2:20 pm
So we can attract a whole other segment of righteous indigants, I have an admission: I'm a self-hating Eagle Scout.
Boy Scouts was fun. Camping, shooting, canoeing, tying knots, all that shit was awesome. No latent consumerist indoctrination, either! It was the jingoistic quasi-military ritualism and institutional homophobia that put me off the BSA.
2:25 pm
I’m sure some of the Girl Scout troops out in who-knows-where that came into town this weekend are fabulous and perhaps even carry a touch of much-needed feminism for their young lasses.
That acknowledgement made, I myself only have horrid memories of the GSA.
Back in the day (late 80s, early 90s) when I stomped my neighborhood with a rat pack of girls in suburban Ohio, being in the Girl Scouts was pretty much obligatory.
Some things were just bad: the afternoon indoor meetings involving forced prayer with leader Amy in her living room (ain’t nothing wrong with prayer -- just don’t yell at a kid if she’s not doing it ‘right’); the mean-girl pairing off; the ugly uniforms; and of course the crappy nature lessons.
But something else was worse. That, of course, would be Girl Scout Camp.
Girl Scout Camp, where No Running was a rule, where I was required to swim with a bathing cap in a frigid, swampy pool that the counselors refused to go near, and where the food at the camp actually made me vomit.
One night after puking and crying about the camp, my friend and I decided to run away. We started off down the road and they let us go about a mile. Then counselor-bitch came after us and actually hit my friend and ordered us back.
I’m not kidding. It was without a doubt awful, and nightmares followed.
Anyway, my point is that I’m sure it’s great for some people, and sure the cookies are awesome, but GSA sucks pretty bad for a lot of kids.
And come on, don’t you think the whole thing is a little creepy?
2:30 pm
"Latent" homophobia? Is that like how we "latently" invaded Iraq? :)
2:39 pm
I just wanted to say to Jessica and Kim: I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Girl Scouts as children. As others have already pointed out: the quality of the program depends largely upon the volunteer delivering it. Yes, there are volunteers who don't "get" the concepts of allowing the girls a safe place to learn and make mistakes. There are volunteers who plan everything, or only offer what they are interested in.
However, there are many, many, many more of us out there who put the girls first in everything we do. We do it because we believe that somehow that shy girl who won't say "hi" to anyone else just might be inspired someday to become President. We do it because we believe that perhaps that girl who struggles with math in school might have an "ah-ha!" moment through a math or science badge activity, and become the next Newton or Einstein. We do it because maybe that awkward girl who gets picked on in school might find somewhere she fits in, where her opinion is valued and she is accepted. We do it because that conversation we have about healthy relationships might help a 16 yr old girl say "No" and avoid becoming another teenage mother.
We do it because we know that the best way to secure a better future for ourselves and our children is to be involved today with those who will be the leaders of tomorrow. We do it because we believe that teaching independence and personal responsibility to our children is the best service we can give our country and the world. We do it because we care about the girls in our troops as dearly as if they were our own flesh and blood.
Perhaps your old leader didn't "get" the concept. But perhaps she was doing what she thought was best. Sometimes we plan activities and are just as disappointed in the results as the girls are. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. Just something to consider before you bash that leader you had who at least was willing to step up and try. That has to count for something.
3:49 pm
Carrie the Red, let's start our own All Growed-Up Girl Scout Troop in the city, since apparently we're not doing anything to better our community and never have.
We could sell cookies on 18th St. when the bars let out, while wearing those modified, slutty GS-style uniforms from the Halloween party stores. What a killing we'd make. Could you imagine? And all for the benefit of the GSA! Whee!
4:08 pm
Yeah, I dunno about you, but all those years since I left the scouts, all I've done is sell methamphetamines, lure priests into Richard Dawkins' readings, wash my socks in public drinking fountains, and litter.
Can we wear Samoa pasties underneath the sexy scout uniforms?
4:16 pm
Carrie, you blight on the community: of course we can.
4:45 pm
Carrie the Red: So what exactly HAVE you done to volunteer lately?
4:53 pm
As to the objection that your insulting posts against Girl Scouts reflect only your own experiences, keep in mind that we leaders are VOLUNTEERS. Yup, that's right, we are paid zip, zilch, nada. So sorry if every single GS leader since 1912 hasn't given up hours and hours of her personal time every week, hasn't taken time away from her own family, hasn't used a very great deal of her own money, to devote to a bunch of girls who want to make a difference in the world. Trust me, they are the exception. So don't give me a sob story about how all you did was make crafts or sell cookies. If that's the worst thing that ever happens to you, then I think you'll be o.k. Maybe you should just be thankful there was SOMEONE there for you, and belatedly thank her for taking time away from her personal life and her work outside the home, juggling her own children's soccer games and karate classes, housekeeping and bookkeeping, giving up her precious little free time to lousy little brats like you. I hope she never knows that her thoughtfulness has come back to bite her in the butt.
4:58 pm
Chris: Bravo for you for finally doing something beside sitting on your butt and critizing those things you know nothing about. See you in the clean-up crew.
5:05 pm
Girl Scout experience from their perspective: awesome.
Girl Scout experience from our perspective: kind of crap.
Commenting on this divide: bratty.
Lousy little brats, we are. Terrible people. We wanted the full GSA experience, the one we saw in the brochures. We didn't get it. So we're making some comments on a blog about it, 20 years later. And this makes us the scum of the earth. Fer chrissake - none of us have been crying our whole lives over our missed opportunity for growth and badge-amassing. None of us have, as Carrie said, picketed for the disbanding of the entire organization. We're just expressing opinions.
I'm gonna get on the sincerity train for a minute, but not in the holier-than-thou car: Complaining - discourse, dialogue, critique - is not bratty. It's human, it's how we solve problems - as I said, it's expression, plain and simple. Righteousness, however? Kind of bratty.
Now, who wants a cookie?
5:53 pm
I don’t know about Carrie the Red, HomeschooledTwins, but I, for one, volunteered to help a helpless drunk person into a cab the other night. That said, I’ve never belonged to any organization of any sort. But then again, you don’t have to to make a difference.
5:59 pm
The bottom line is, Girl Scouts is and has always been a girl-driven program. What the girls decide the troop should be, it is. If you had a lousy troop, look in the mirror. Maybe you were a lousy Girl Scout and therefore, you made it a lousy troop. Perhaps your leader breathed a huge sigh of relief when you, the ungrateful, left her troop. Yep, we leaders know who is there because they want to be and who is there because their parents just don't want to deal with them... as a Junior leader, I know exactly which of my girls will sound like you in 20 years and which will remember fondly all of our adventures!
I agree with those who say I hope your old leader isn't around to see how thankless you are as an adult. At least that woman or women were there trying to make a difference . Complaining, discourse, dialog, critique - solves nothing, just perpetuates negativity. Getting in there and making a difference solves things. Get out from behind your silly little blog and make a difference. Show you can do better or sit down and be quiet.
No organization that provides program for youth deserves this treatment. Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Campfire, the Y, Boys and Girls Club - they are all staffed by volunteers who get in there and work with these kids. Do you?
6:04 pm
Right you are, Ernest! Besides, there's nothing good GSA can produce a good sound education cannot. Who should know better than you, Homeschooltwins? To summarize, I declare the scout movement redundant at best.
6:30 pm
Oh, Homeschooltwins, you've slithered back to shine your own nasty brand of truth-telling light on us. Goodie.
If it was appropriate, I'd post a resume detailing a history doing many of the very things -- working for women's rights, organizing anti-hunger readings at my college -- that you bashed us "naysayers" about never lifting a finger on. You'd be stunned to discover I actually *work* for a charity. That said, I'm ever examining the ways in which I could do better, and regularly criticize myself for not doing enough. But I doubt such a self-serving post would be of interest to anyone else here.
I've been really impressed by the commitment of some of the obviously passionate troop leaders posting here -- but then one comes in with something that's just scary! I'm thankless, lazy, ungrateful, selfish -- I do nothing for the world -- and you know this because I said some smartass things about my experiences in Girl Scouts? "Lousy little brats like you"? Whoa! Maybe time to cut back on those volunteer hours before your girls get an unexpected dose of that inner Joan Crawford. It's all sweetness and support and cookies until you snap and beat someone with a coat-hanger.
While I had a less-than-fabulous experience in Scouts, I've given plenty of sincere mad props to the sincere and committed scout-supporting posters here (the ones who didn't accuse the anti-scouting contingent of laziness or stupidity, that is -- or try to argue it was the fault of the girls because they *made* the troop lousy! Wow!) And I'll say it again: You go, girls.
But Homeschooltwins, in response to your query about my volunteer work, I think I'll simply refer you to Big Mike's post above, and to my own last post as well: I'm passionately committed to washing my socks in public drinking fountains. After all, as Mother Teresa said, we can only do small things with great love, and a world with nasty sweaty socks in it is no place I want to live.
6:38 pm
I like the way you carry on, Carrie the Red.
7:41 pm
Just a note: We're not "GSA", we are "GSUSA - Girl Scouts of the United States of America". For those who wish to bash us, at least do us the courtesy of using our proper name.
To K: So you missed out on the Girl Scout experience you wanted as a child. That does not mean you can't have just as much fun as an adult leader. I will readily admit that I have just as much fun now as an adult as I ever had as a girl in GS. As a matter of fact, I probably enjoy it even more now than I did then. That's not to say that there isn't a good deal of hard work involved, but then again, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right, and that takes work. Just a thought to consider.
For those that had bad experiences, again, I ask you to consider that your leader was probably doing the best she could at the time. Remember, at least she was willing to volunteer to lead your troop. That should count for something, especially in this culture of ours that's so self-centered and filled with so many who are happy to have *whatever* as long as "someone else" does it and they aren't inconvenienced.
Is being a leader hard? Yes. Is it inconvenient? Yes, sometimes it is. Is it worth it? Most definitely YES! I challenge you: walk a mile in our shoes - lead a troop for a year, and then come back and tell me if you REALLY think GSUSA is worthy of your scorn.
7:52 pm
I myself am a girl scout leader but i didn't start out being one. The leader quit I stepped up because my youngest really wanted to be a Brownie. I myself loved Brownies thru Seniors. But thats me. Not everyone enjoys Girl Scouts. Just like not every leader is or was the best. I am not the typical leader.. I dislike camping in tents, I have purple hair !but i still love to give my time to Girl Scouts. Now I really think that everyone needs to chill out and go sit down!!
8:25 pm
Yeah, everybody take a time-out.
Just like ANY office, business, institution, there are some bad apples. Some people shouldn't be leaders. Some girls shouldn't be Girl Scouts. That's just the way it is. Everybody is feeling like they're under attack right now, and I'm sure that's not what MOST of the posters wanted.
I'm sorry that the leader wasn't what you wanted/needed at the time. Just as there are many types of personalities in people, there are different personalities in troops. Your's didn't fit you.
Some people/troops are great to be around, some feel like family, some are just convenient, only free babysitting, or to fill a vest with awards.
And I hope that all the posters feel comfortable practicing random acts of kindness, if not, well, I hope someone else is kind to you.
Most of us leaders work hard to give the girls not only a fun time, but guidance and mentoring. So we really have to believe that this is a GOOD program we sacrafice(?) our time, $$, sanity;-), and gas for. And I guess we'll defend it like we would our girls, both birth and troop.
Sign me - Mama Bear
10:41 pm
If you're going to criticize an organization, at least get it's name right: We are the Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA). Whatever org the "GSA" is, it is NOT Girl Scouts. Just another example of people blowing it out their, er, hats, without knowing what they are talking about.
11:05 pm
So, Carrie, I'm supposed to be June Cleaver just because I'm a Girl Scout leader? You expect me knit a tea cozy while you bash the organization I've given years and years to? You want me to just hike off into the woods and leave you to wallow in your ignorance? Well, sistah, you've come across the wrong GS Leader. I am a tree-hugging, liberal feminist who will give you as good as you give. I ain't your mamma's GS Leader, and thankfully, I wasn't yours. Pull up your big girl panties and deal with it.
I'm the kind of woman who's teaching future generations of girls to stand up for what they believe in no matter if anyone else thinks their uniforms are hideous or slutty. 'Cuz you know what, *my* girls don't fall for the peer pressure of looking like everyone else - they can wear a brown uniform, an emo-flavored one, or none at all (gee, guess you didn't know that GS don't have to wear uniforms, did you - the ones who do, do it because they are proud to wear it, whether or not they are called nerds or geeks). These girls are not your demure role-models of feminine reticence; these girls will be leaders willing to fight (and I do mean "fight") up for any number of causes.
So, your leaders left something to be desired by you. Honey, build a bridge and get over it. You should be glad there are some of us out there who are taking care of the future for your children. Maybe some of us don't give you the warm fuzzies, but remember: Quiet women don't make history. If you don't like it, then volunteer and mold a few young lives yourself.
8:17 am
Just one more question before I delete this link from my computer forever. If you hated Girl Scouts so much and don't see a need for girls and adults to "waste their time" with it... why do you keep coming back to this blog to see what comments everyone is writing???
9:22 am
For some reason, I decided to spend part of my morning reading this lengthy debate about GSA. Sorry, make that GSUSA. I'd hate to be excluded from the dialogue on a mere technicality.
All I can say is, as a former troubled youth, I'm glad I'm a guy. I get the distinct feeling that were I one of those "ungrateful" and "lousy little brats" in a Girl Scout troop, the "leaders" would have marginalized me like some uppity black kid in the Jim Crow south. It's weird. But some of the "leaders" on this debate seem to be more than willing to admit that they're conducting a form of Darwinian self-selection, rewarding only the girls who behave like sweet little angels, do their public duty, and never dare confront the adults who have sacrificed so much for Future of Our Country's Children. I suspect Homeschooltwins has no idea what I'm talking about. But her twins may one day--many years from now, when they wake up and realize they need to deprogram themselves because theyre tired of being little Stepford Scouts.
10:09 am
I am sorry to see everyone getting quite so nasty here. I too am a bit put out by the original negative opinion expressed about Girl Scouts, but to call names back and forth doesn't give the organization any assistance at all.
I was a Girl Scout until the Cadette level. That is when everyone decided to go somewhere else and our troop disbanded. Today's girls at that age are wicked to each other and the ridicule is terrible. My own 13 year old will not wear a uniform unless it is a parade or cookie selling. I DO know that being able to explore other careers, interests, cultures and countries has been an eye-opener for her and the other girls in our troop. Our Daisies from two years ago have just completed their first year as Brownies. One who was horribly shy (wouldn't look at you much less answer) is now one of my opinionated and vocal leaders! I can only think that interacting on an even playing field in scouts has helped her open up somehow.
I would like to say that our troop can go camping in the woods and not have to do overnights at a mall, but in today's society (compared to my '70's scouting experience) we have to deal with so many more issues, cover so many more safety concerns and make it accessable to everyone, that the basics of Girl Scouts like I remember it is more of a novelty. I would love to teach my girls how to set up a real tent, build a real fire and cook weenies over it on pine branches we peeled with a pocket knife. I am afraid that we would have to have hours of training to respect the earth first, safety training for the one girl who is allergic to weenies, camp training to learn how to cook over a fire, tent preferences and also find a safe campground where the wildlife isn't some creep hanging around.
Our programs are designed for girls in today's society, and as far as I have experienced as a leader, Girl Scouts needs more volunteers than ever, because sometimes the scout troop is the only safe place for the girls to go! Perhaps the original poster would like to find a troop to sit in on and see if there is a way that she can turn her negative mamory of Girl Scouts into a positive prescence for someone else.
10:44 am
My wife forwarded me this link because we’ve been rguing about getting our girls into scouting. As a former eagle scout (reformed, I didn’t understand the anti-gay stuff), I’d like my two daughters to have the fun of scouting. But as a professional arguer (lawyer) , this whole string bugged me. Some nice scouting people, but the lack of thinking on the whole is nuts. chip67, the first reference to girl scouts as a “waste of time” was your message that “quoted” the phrase. And more, the ruder posters seeming inability to read the other posters acknowledgments of others’ dedication.. it reminds me of facilitations where one party is not listening. if I send my girls to scouts and they don’t like it, are they going to be called brats and ungrateful?. I do a fair amount of volunteer work (or did, before job and kids ate my life), but I don’t expect every homeless guy I fed to talk about how great I am years later. I didn’t think that was the point. I’m not totally turned off scouting but this shows there are jerks in every niche. I feel bad for the nice folks who posted here.
11:15 am
thank you Tom
5:15 pm
After reading everyone's posts, I feel the need to add my two cents in again: We all think our points of view are right, and aren't willing to budge from them. But the point everyone is missing is the fact that if Girl Scouts were so horrible, then why has membership steadily gone up year after year?
As for the shame, it's truly a shame that the people who had a bad experience with one troop feel the need to bash the whole organization. It's also a shame that Girl Scout leaders need to come here and try to validate an organization to people who just don't care. But I guess it just shows the amount of determination from those posting on here. Personally, I am going to spend my time from now on finding ways to give my troop a worhtwile scouting experience rather than dealing with this drama.