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	<title>Comments on: Reports of Rock &amp; Roll&#8217;s Demise at the Hands of Pro Tools Have Been Greatly Exaggerated</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/</link>
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		<title>By: Kevin Erickson</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/comment-page-1/#comment-37004</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/?p=13828#comment-37004</guid>
		<description>Pretty much very major label rock record is slathered in autotune.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty much very major label rock record is slathered in autotune.</p>
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		<title>By: musician and listener</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/comment-page-1/#comment-36898</link>
		<dc:creator>musician and listener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/?p=13828#comment-36898</guid>
		<description>Protools and autotune are just tools.  Listen to The Books, and then try to tell me that Protools is purely evil.  They use Protools in the same spirit that the Beatles used Abbey Road Studios.  The original purpose of autotune was to preserve an otherwise great performance that had an off pitch note that didn&#039;t sound cool.  Yes, musicians think about what mistakes sound cool, and what mistakes don&#039;t sound cool.  And they don&#039;t want you to hear the crappy mistakes that detract from their laid back rock star mystery.  For that reason, you will actually find autotune on a lot of recordings that you would not suspect.  As for the Cher/T-Pain effect, I personally don&#039;t like it.  However, I like Peter Frampton playing through a talk box.  And in truth, they&#039;re both the same thing - artistic tools potentially turned into gimmicks by overuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protools and autotune are just tools.  Listen to The Books, and then try to tell me that Protools is purely evil.  They use Protools in the same spirit that the Beatles used Abbey Road Studios.  The original purpose of autotune was to preserve an otherwise great performance that had an off pitch note that didn't sound cool.  Yes, musicians think about what mistakes sound cool, and what mistakes don't sound cool.  And they don't want you to hear the crappy mistakes that detract from their laid back rock star mystery.  For that reason, you will actually find autotune on a lot of recordings that you would not suspect.  As for the Cher/T-Pain effect, I personally don't like it.  However, I like Peter Frampton playing through a talk box.  And in truth, they're both the same thing - artistic tools potentially turned into gimmicks by overuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Scheinman</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/comment-page-1/#comment-36876</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Scheinman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/?p=13828#comment-36876</guid>
		<description>Douglas,

Appreciate the response. Makes a bit more sense if we&#039;re talking radio-play rock, but the inclusion of James Brown—which would&#039;ve been a different billboard chart back then—made me think your argument had extensions beyond top-40 pop.

I&#039;m all for human error (it&#039;s my favorite kind) and absolutely agree that the resultant rough edges define rock more than fastidious virtuosity, &amp;c. I also agree with your point that &quot;a great band can replace one of its members with someone who&#039;s technically a more skillful musician, only to discover that their instrumental chemistry isn&#039;t there anymore.&quot; (In another sense, this is why &lt;em&gt;Tommy&lt;/em&gt;, the opera, when not performed by the Who, immediately assumes a veneer of schlock.)

Rock succeeds based on force of personality, and I think we can both come down in opposition to any hypersanitization of the latter. Keep the dream alive!

~Ted</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas,</p>
<p>Appreciate the response. Makes a bit more sense if we're talking radio-play rock, but the inclusion of James Brown—which would've been a different billboard chart back then—made me think your argument had extensions beyond top-40 pop.</p>
<p>I'm all for human error (it's my favorite kind) and absolutely agree that the resultant rough edges define rock more than fastidious virtuosity, &amp;c. I also agree with your point that "a great band can replace one of its members with someone who's technically a more skillful musician, only to discover that their instrumental chemistry isn't there anymore." (In another sense, this is why <em>Tommy</em>, the opera, when not performed by the Who, immediately assumes a veneer of schlock.)</p>
<p>Rock succeeds based on force of personality, and I think we can both come down in opposition to any hypersanitization of the latter. Keep the dream alive!</p>
<p>~Ted</p>
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		<title>By: jf1</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/comment-page-1/#comment-36815</link>
		<dc:creator>jf1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/?p=13828#comment-36815</guid>
		<description>I think the point we&#039;re all trying to find is what exactly is the significance of actually using mix-mastering vs not using it, in terms of the aesthetics of the song. Do they make a song better or worse...if so why? 

Is a song better because it&#039;s in artificially-perfect pitch? That still isn&#039;t going to fix the lyrics or the melody. This is something like saying that calligraphy would become monotonous if done by computer. Yes, a certain degree of individuality would be lost, and in that we might also lose some unique sounds, ear-catching sounds, and yes a certain element of musicianship, jazziness, eloquent imperfection may be lost, but if 5 seconds of Abbey Road are what makes it a great song  then we&#039;re in a lot of trouble regardless. Likewise if perfecting the pitch of the music actually sells a lot of records. But like most things this has good and bad sides. It makes some songs more enjoyable and other songs less enjoyable, and this is subjective. But the problem is in trying to make your subjective tastes the issue and not the presence or absence of mass-market appeal that results from the use of these tools. You have to consider that for everything that you like there are 5,000 people who hate it, who want it changed in ways that you would hate. So subjectively this point has merit for you, but for others it&#039;s nonsense. And likewise for every song that is made worse through the misuse of digital editing tools, there are 5000 songs that are made better through the use of those same tools in good hands. That&#039;s just how it is. Why? Because most musicians do not have good pitch or even good technique much less good ears and most people care a lot more about good musicianship on average than the occasional spectacular performance.

And your complaint applies to just about every human endeavor. The very good are made worse, and the average made better. But there are far more average performers than excellent ones. Just think that every now and then someone who is very restrained yet very talented in terms of editing hooks up with an excellent musician and brings us the best of both worlds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point we're all trying to find is what exactly is the significance of actually using mix-mastering vs not using it, in terms of the aesthetics of the song. Do they make a song better or worse...if so why? </p>
<p>Is a song better because it's in artificially-perfect pitch? That still isn't going to fix the lyrics or the melody. This is something like saying that calligraphy would become monotonous if done by computer. Yes, a certain degree of individuality would be lost, and in that we might also lose some unique sounds, ear-catching sounds, and yes a certain element of musicianship, jazziness, eloquent imperfection may be lost, but if 5 seconds of Abbey Road are what makes it a great song  then we're in a lot of trouble regardless. Likewise if perfecting the pitch of the music actually sells a lot of records. But like most things this has good and bad sides. It makes some songs more enjoyable and other songs less enjoyable, and this is subjective. But the problem is in trying to make your subjective tastes the issue and not the presence or absence of mass-market appeal that results from the use of these tools. You have to consider that for everything that you like there are 5,000 people who hate it, who want it changed in ways that you would hate. So subjectively this point has merit for you, but for others it's nonsense. And likewise for every song that is made worse through the misuse of digital editing tools, there are 5000 songs that are made better through the use of those same tools in good hands. That's just how it is. Why? Because most musicians do not have good pitch or even good technique much less good ears and most people care a lot more about good musicianship on average than the occasional spectacular performance.</p>
<p>And your complaint applies to just about every human endeavor. The very good are made worse, and the average made better. But there are far more average performers than excellent ones. Just think that every now and then someone who is very restrained yet very talented in terms of editing hooks up with an excellent musician and brings us the best of both worlds.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Wolk</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/comment-page-1/#comment-36697</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Wolk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/?p=13828#comment-36697</guid>
		<description>Hi Ted--thanks for the response--very much appreciated.

Just to clarify, the kind of &quot;pop music&quot; that I was suggesting frowns on mistakes is the genuinely mainstream kind, as opposed to stuff like Jay Reatard that has subcultural buzz but not much in the way of radio traction. (The White Stripes are a special case.) I didn&#039;t name any contemporary Billboard-rock-song-chart bands who are Doing It Wrong because I didn&#039;t want to make anybody a whipping boy, but I guess I ended up with a straw man instead.... 

You&#039;re absolutely right that studio perfectionism isn&#039;t unique to rock. I think it&#039;s totally appropriate for a lot of kinds of popular music--just not always the kinds that rely on real-time interaction between musicians.

And, as I understand, just about everybody in mainstream popular music uses Auto-Tune--the T-Pain effect is what happens when you set it so its pitch modification is perceptible, but most of the time it just nudges things so they&#039;re correctly in tune.

Good point on the codgerism of citing exclusively four-decade-old songs (&quot;Sex Machine&quot; was &#039;70). I pulled those out because they&#039;re examples of the kind of broad, obvious mistakes that barely ever showed up on mainstream hits after live-in-the-studio performances became less common.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ted--thanks for the response--very much appreciated.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, the kind of "pop music" that I was suggesting frowns on mistakes is the genuinely mainstream kind, as opposed to stuff like Jay Reatard that has subcultural buzz but not much in the way of radio traction. (The White Stripes are a special case.) I didn't name any contemporary Billboard-rock-song-chart bands who are Doing It Wrong because I didn't want to make anybody a whipping boy, but I guess I ended up with a straw man instead.... </p>
<p>You're absolutely right that studio perfectionism isn't unique to rock. I think it's totally appropriate for a lot of kinds of popular music--just not always the kinds that rely on real-time interaction between musicians.</p>
<p>And, as I understand, just about everybody in mainstream popular music uses Auto-Tune--the T-Pain effect is what happens when you set it so its pitch modification is perceptible, but most of the time it just nudges things so they're correctly in tune.</p>
<p>Good point on the codgerism of citing exclusively four-decade-old songs ("Sex Machine" was '70). I pulled those out because they're examples of the kind of broad, obvious mistakes that barely ever showed up on mainstream hits after live-in-the-studio performances became less common.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Beaujon</title>
		<link>http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/11/13/rock-rolls-demise-at-the-hands-of-pro-tools-has-been-greatly-exaggerated-by-douglas-wolk-and-npr/comment-page-1/#comment-36691</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Beaujon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/?p=13828#comment-36691</guid>
		<description>Wolk&#039;s got a Wiki page?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wolk's got a Wiki page?</p>
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